lancelot wrote:Developing a whole new tank is retarded. It will only complicate logistics. If they think a gas turbine engine is useful for conditions like in the Arctic, why not just develop a new powerpack for the T-14 Armata with the gas turbine and produce that?
Since the production facility at Omsk will have to be developed from scratch for production of new tanks, why not just produce the T-14 Armata there and be done with it?
Bleeding edge designs require modern subsystems and components and state of the art facilities to manufacture.
How is this even a question?
galicije83 wrote:They made priductuon line for T14 in UVZ, but for now they do not have man power for made new t14 because all of workers are on two lines for made new T90s and modernized T72s...
You don't know that.
galicije83 wrote: USSR they have it 5 lines for T72 tanks, and one of them was line only for hulls were they automatic welding of the same. Now they welld them by hends...
Prototypes are almost always hand-crafted. You're still figuring out the final design, you have not yet setup the production, the logistics...
Today UVZ hand wellded T90s hulls...and this tank is in basic t72...so they destroyed that line with no reaseon. Today in this situation when they need new tanks in large quantities this line will be very usefull. But it is how it is and there's no back...
For T14, they made new line because they will start of priduction serial ones for army, but with engine problem this tank is doomed until they made new one instead problematic X shape engine...but because they do not have manpower on two lines where they made T90 and T72, they send this worker on that two lines...
Developing a whole new tank is retarded. It will only complicate logistics. If they think a gas turbine engine is useful for conditions like in the Arctic, why not just develop a new powerpack for the T-14 Armata with the gas turbine and produce that?
AFAIK they have enormous numbers of T-80s in storage because it was deemed too expensive to operate in comparison with the T-72/90 series.
The exception is in the arctic or with the navy where the fuels and ability to operate in extreme cold makes the turbines useful.
Since the production facility at Omsk will have to be developed from scratch for production of new tanks, why not just produce the T-14 Armata there and be done with it?
I suspect in the longer term they will make a gas turbine version of the T-14 and B- and K- for the role, but this is more like an upgrade for the T-72 to make them useful till they are all used up... by which time you hope to have a proper replacement for them ready.
They made priductuon line for T14 in UVZ, but for now they do not have man power for made new t14 because all of workers are on two lines for made new T90s and modernized T72s...
T-90s and T-72s are getting the job done and are cheaper, but T-14 is the future and experience will likely further improve the design before serial production starts again.
It is just possible that Russia wants a dedicated tank for the artic, so a modernised version of the T-80 will be produced.
The high power to weight ratio of the T-80 with the gas turbines made it very mobile and very zippy and I would say in the mud in the Ukraine it would be rather useful too.
They say new production but they really mean older models being upgraded like the T-72.
For T14, they made new line because they will start of priduction serial ones for army, but with engine problem this tank is doomed until they made new one instead problematic X shape engine...but because they do not have manpower on two lines where they made T90 and T72, they send this worker on that two lines...
There is nothing wrong with the engine the T-14 uses... you can tell because the fucking morons who complain that the T-14 has a bad engine never mention the T-15 and the T-16 and the 2S35 Coalition all use the same fucking engine...
A rookie conscript driver left the parking brake on in a Moscow parade and stalled the engine and now everyone thinks the whole design is finished.
Koalitsya SV use standard V engine from T90A tank with 1000Hp becaus eit is on T90 chassie not T14 ...check your sources again....
X engine has overheating problem when it goes in war bust to bust power to 1850HP. They sort this problem cuting war power mode to 0 bust, and have it just 1500 Hp still overheat after long pushing trough the rough terrains...so yes they have problem with this engine for now.
I mention engine problem not driver mistake on red square for frack sake....
galicije83 wrote:For T14, they made new line because they will start of priduction serial ones for army, but with engine problem this tank is doomed until they made new one instead problematic X shape engine...but because they do not have manpower on two lines where they made T90 and T72, they send this worker on that two lines...
The T-14 engine passed Soviet trials back when it was developed and was accepted for mass production. The thing is, modern expectations of engine lifetime, and maintenance aren't the same as they were back when it was originally developed. So it had to be modernized. There is nothing wrong with the engine design itself that we know of. It is just a product of its time. It should have way more room for modernization than the V-2 engine family which has been in use since the late 1930s.
Koalitsya SV use standard V engine from T90A tank with 1000Hp becaus eit is on T90 chassie not T14 ...check your sources again....
The current model is T-90 based because they did the testing and development on that chassis, but the final vehicle is not going to be T-90 based with a T-90 engine in a division of all Armata vehicles.
At some point they will stop making T-90s and T-80s and will be making all the new vehicle family vehicles.
X engine has overheating problem when it goes in war bust to bust power to 1850HP. They sort this problem cuting war power mode to 0 bust, and have it just 1500 Hp still overheat after long pushing trough the rough terrains...so yes they have problem with this engine for now.
It is a brand new engine design and was designed from the outset for growth in power from 1,800hp up to about 2,400hp in the future. Minor problems once it actually gets into service are normal and will be dealt with, but pussies who hate Russia claim the whole programme will be cancelled because the engine doesn't work... the same cunts who say Putin should be removed from power because he is not hard enough and not quick enough to get angry, when that is actually what makes him a good leader.
Britain wouldn't have any tanks if they cancelled tanks over crap engines or crap guns or crap armour it now seems.
The point is that nothing is perfect and problems can be worked out and solved... that is the mission directive of the F-35 programme. "...fuckit... we will fix it later... or we wont... no refunds."
galicije83 wrote: X engine has overheating problem when it goes in war bust to bust power to 1850HP. They sort this problem cuting war power mode to 0 bust, and have it just 1500 Hp still overheat after long pushing trough the rough terrains...so yes they have problem with this engine for now.
Previous X engines had overheating problems so a new engine made with modern metallurgy and decades of advances in engine design should have the same problem ad infinitum. Right...
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Hole wrote:Let´s say it together: Russia is running out of tanks...
Maybe what the unbiased and totally reliable Western MSM means is that Russian tank factories are running out of space to store all the tanks they are building?
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Big_Gazza wrote: Maybe what the unbiased and totally reliable Western MSM means is that Russian tank factories are running out of space to store all the tanks they are building?
As usual, the comments in the background are the same interesting as the pictures. Those are freshly built tanks (at least some of them), 2024 year of production. Not refurbished, not modernized. Brand new, with new build engines, including the ones with increased power, which are already serially supplied.
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As usual, the comments in the background are the same interesting as the pictures. Those are freshly built tanks (at least some of them), 2024 year of production. Not refurbished, not modernized. Brand new, with new build engines, including the ones with increased power, which are already serially supplied.
Why would they have restored th turret casting plants instead of using welded turrets? This does not add up.
They would probably also take the chance to improve the frontal hull armour layout for new T-80s.
The first answer that comes to my mind, is because they have molds to cast the turrets. There is no welded T-80 turret accepted for service, so if you are to make a new tank ... you just get back to the tools you have or wait for formal acceptance of a non-existing technical solution.
ALAMO wrote:The first answer that comes to my mind, is because they have molds to cast the turrets. There is no welded T-80 turret accepted for service, so if you are to make a new tank ... you just get back to the tools you have or wait for formal acceptance of a non-existing technical solution.
I thought they no longer had the foundries for T-80 turrets?
I still cannot believe these are new 1500hp engines, if they were, then they are the best gas turbine tank engines in the world, much better than those on M1. And Russia can put "turtle armour" on them like that famous Tsar tank(I believe all of you watched the footage of that unbelievable action by the Tsar tank), because T-80's with 1500hp engines run fast, much faster than that Tsar tank based on T-72B3, even with that invincible "turtle armour"...
Last edited by xeno on Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
Yeah, but this is a valid question as after 1991 a lot of "western advisers" were sharply focused on a specific sort of "pieces of advice". Like cutting a specialized, $2 bln, titanium welding chamber to pieces with flame torches and selling for scrap metal. Or a 3D mill used for making submarine screws ... This sort of advice Disposing of a tank turret casting mold wouldn't be much of a surprise to me...
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Hole wrote:Russians are not known for throwing things away that they could use one day. Propably because they got enough storage space.
Russians destroyed so many things in 90s you will be surprised. And its far easier and faster to make welded turret instead of cast.
One of many things in UVZ was hull automatic welding line witch was destroyed in late 90s...with this line they will be produced easy 60-70 new T-90s every month maybe more...with hand welding they made around 30 each month.
They used hull from T-80B tanks they have it around 3000+ left, and they also cut ~1500 in early 2000s this T-80B/BV tanks. USSR made ~5700 B/BV models of T80...
Last edited by galicije83 on Sun Apr 21, 2024 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
The correct way of putting that is that Russians under the corrupt direction of US and NATO stooges destroyed a lot of valuable Soviet equipment to further NATzO's agenda. But clearly, the stooges did not have enough time to ruin everything.
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Russian state media outlets have revealed that the production of gas turbine engines for the T-80 main battle tank has been resumed at the engineering plant Kaluzhsky Engine - known colloquially as Kaluga. The GTD-1250 multi-fuel gas turbine engine was confirmed to be in full scale production, with this representing the most advanced engine in the GTD-1000 family designed to power the latest T-80 variant the T-80BVM. The engine can run on diesel fuel, kerosene, gasoline, and various blends, which is a prized capability due to the risks of supplies of one or more fuel types becoming unavailable on the frontlines in wartime. The revelation closely coincided with Defence Minister Sergey Shoigu’s visit to the Omsktransmash Tank Plant, which produced T-80 tanks until the mid-1990s and is currently responsible for their refurbishment and modernisation. The facility has refurbished hundreds of T-80s from storage since the outbreak of full scale hostilities between Russian and Ukrainian forces in February 2022, with relatively few Soviet built T-80s having been in service at the time due to the class’ high operational costs compared to the cheaper T-72 and T-90.
The high cost of gas turbine engines means they are used only on the T-80 and the American M1 Abrams tanks, with other tank classes including the T-72 and T-90 using diesel engines which are significantly cheaper both to manufacture and to maintain. This has been a primary factor leading the Russian Defence Ministry to favour the two classes over the T-80 in the post-Cold War years as part of broader efforts to significantly reduce expenditures. Multiple factors have indicated, however, that experience operating the T-80 in the Ukrainian theatre has led the Defence Ministry to revise its prior assessment regarding the class’ cost effectiveness relative to other Russian tanks, with state media announcing in September that work had begun at Omsktransmash to restart T-80 production after close to three decades. This will supplement current production of the T-90M and next generation T-14 tanks at the Uralvagonzavod tank factory. It has raised the significant possibility that a new T-80 heavily enhanced variant will be developed, potentially with features such as an unmanned turret and armoured crew capsule as seen on unrealised prototypes in the 1990s.
With the Russian Army continuing to receive new T-80BVM tanks for use in Ukraine, reports from the frontlines have testified to its high performance. A Russian Army commander engaged in combat with Ukrainian Army units, including German-supplied Leopard tanks, highlighted the class’ excellent mobility relative to the Leopards when interviewed by local media: "The same Leopards are drowning in the mud, they are constantly, constantly drowning. We can observe from drones how they are being taken out [of the mud]. Our vehicle has a gas turbine engine, it is not afraid of mud or slush, it flies over all potholes. This is the difference that allows our tank units to operate in any weather, support infantry and overcome enemy trenches and dugouts without slowing down.” Beyond advantages in mobility, the T-80BVM’s gas turbine engine is also prized for its ability to start quickly in extreme cold, which was a primary argument for keeping the class in service before 2022 due to its value for operations in the Arctic, with diesel engines often taking over half an hour to start in temperatures under minus 20.
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