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    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:18 pm

    Two different versions on your pictures. For the export it's not bad at all. For russia too.
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    Post  eehnie on Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:11 pm

    This aircraft is unlikely to replace the Il-38. The range of this variant of the Il-114 is a little more than a half of the range of the Il-38, and less than a half of the range of the Tu-95/142. As expected the range of this aircraft falls short for the standards of Russia.

    In the positive side is that this aircraft can be shipborne, but only would be usable by aircraft carriers, which means only 1 or 2 units.

    Likely to export.

    Smaller shipborne UAVs, likely VTOL, in the size cathegory of the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 or under it, and as consequence usabe from a lot more ships, surely can reach ranges of this level in a few years.
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    Post  Hole on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:13 pm

    It is not supposed to replace the Il-38.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:09 pm

    https://russia-insider.com/en/us-fight-wildfires-russian-firefighting-aircraft/ri25344

    Good to see export sales of the Be-200 fire fighting aircraft... a firm order for four aircraft and options for 6 more to fight fires in the US and Australia....

    Hopefully boosts in sales could continue to further stimulate development of the family of aircraft...
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    Post  Hole on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:24 pm

    That proofs that evil russians started the wildfires in California!
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:07 am

    Yeah... when you associate Russia with anything in California it must be bad so I suspect they will think they are starting fires rather than putting them out... but what can you do... Hollywood has a transmit button but no receive button... pay them enormous amounts of money to make a movie and they make it... no questions asked...

    But anyway the Be-200 is rather bigger than the Il-114 and could be landed on the water surface for rescue or even just dipping sonar operations... I would still prefer the original bigger A-42 Albatross for the job though...

    Quite frankly any new aircraft types would be good... not really exciting to find newer versions of the Il-20 and Il-22 are being upgraded again and again...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:17 pm


    At the KADEX-2018 exhibition in Kazakhstan, a project of the Il-114MP marine patrol aircraft on the basis of the passenger Il-114-300 was presented.

    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 _1g-R5gAgyw

    https://afirsov.livejournal.com/348029.html
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    Post  Isos on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:39 pm

    It's not the first time they present this.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:44 am

    That looks cool... I particularly like the colours...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 am

    For longer ranged patrols, the Tu-204/-334 could be better choices IMO.
    It is impossible to replace all obsolete aircraft with A-42 flying boats because it would take about 20 years for the Taganrog plant that manufactures them, as well as the smaller Beriev Be-200 planes for the Emergencies Ministry, to fulfill the contract for at least 40 such aircraft.
    A good replacement would be the Tupolev Tu-204-P multi-mission maritime aircraft, which was developed on the basis of the Tu-204 medium-haul airliner. It resembles the state-of-the-art Boeing P-8 Poseidon, a converted B-737.
    This aircraft could be mass-produced if the Russian Navy were to order a sufficient quantity, unlike the A-42 flying boats. This would provide much-needed support to the Tu-204 program, which has essentially no commercial orders.
    It would be possible to assemble 50-60 such aircraft in the next ten years, along with a small number of A-42 search-and-rescue planes. This would alleviate the problem and form the foundation for the subsequent development of Russian naval aviation.
    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20101021161043453/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-334#Specifications_(Tu-334-100)
    https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/75561
    http://argumenti.ru/society/2018/01/560343

    The US had the LRAACA project based on either the MD-87 or the larger MD-9:

    https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1987/1987%20-%201522.PDF
    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/p-9.htm

    The Il-114 has less range & speed to patrol the same area: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-114#Specifications_(Il-114)
    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/may-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6250-kadex-2018-uac-showcased-maritime-patrol-variant-of-il-114.html
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:24 am

    This aircraft could be mass-produced if the Russian Navy were to order a sufficient quantity, unlike the A-42 flying boats. This would provide much-needed support to the Tu-204 program, which has essentially no commercial orders.

    I agree, they would however benefit from having a few different types for the role... smaller lighter aircraft are shorter ranged but also cheaper to operate and for close shore monitoring they are pretty good.

    Having both flying boats (A-42 like planes), as well as these aircraft based on the Il-112, as well as larger planes would be rather more flexible... I would also like to see the Tu-204 related aircraft replace the Il-20 and Il-22 aircraft as well as they are getting a little long in the tooth as well.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:43 am

    GarryB wrote:
    This aircraft could be mass-produced if the Russian Navy were to order a sufficient quantity, unlike the A-42 flying boats. This would provide much-needed support to the Tu-204 program, which has essentially no commercial orders.

    I agree, they would however benefit from having a few different types for the role... smaller lighter aircraft are shorter ranged but also cheaper to operate and for close shore monitoring they are pretty good.

    Having both flying boats (A-42 like planes), as well as these aircraft based on the Il-112, as well as larger planes would be rather more flexible... I would also like to see the Tu-204 related aircraft replace the Il-20 and Il-22 aircraft as well as they are getting a little long in the tooth as well.

    Il-112 versions of AWACS, maritime patrol, EW reco ... would be great for export to small countries that don't need the huge il-76 versions. But very limited to russian huge space.

    Tu-204 versions of those aircraft would be nice for russia as it is a big country. It would be a cheaper little brother of A100, il-38, tu-142 and replacement for il20 to operate in close waters for cheaper.
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    Post  eehnie on Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:41 pm

    Both the Tu-204/2014 and the Be A-40/42 are bigger than the Il-38 and the Il-18/20/22.

    The Be-200 is smaller instead, and the Il-112 and Il-114 smaller still. As consequence their range is far below.

    The Be A-40/42 and the Be-200 were selected in 2015 between all the aircrafs of the time. Landing on sea is a good feature to add to the right size, payload and range. But all them are still aircrafts installed in an old concept of maritime patrol.

    The option of these aircrafts reaching the Russian Armed Forces seems weak because a new generation of maritime patrol, reconnaisance and surveillance is being developped in the form of modern shipborne and land based UAVs. Smartly, in the Russian Maritime Doctrine of 2015, there is a reference to assure the development and serial production of a maritime patrol aircraft (in this case the Be-200 and the Be A-40/42, considered part of a single mechanical development, and previously developped) but there is not reference to the procurement.

    At this point it seems unlikely the procurement of maritime patrol aircrafts of the old mold (as combat aircrafts). Both Berievs (and also the Il-114), seem maritime patrol variants to export. The Russian Armed Forces would keep living the production line until the end of 2020, and then its future likely will depend only of the civilian and foreign military demand.

    The right replacement of the Il-38 and the Tu-95/142 under a modern concept of maritime patrol and strategic bomber would be with Tu-PAK-DA plus shipborne and land based long range UAVs.

    The last contract signed for the purchase of the Be-200 as firefighting aircrafts fits a role of auxiliary aircraft instead of combat aircraft role like the old form of maritime patrol. Still, the contract is very weak, and Im not sure if it will be completed.
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    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 Empty At the KADEX-2018 exhibition in Kazakhstan, a project of the Il-114MP marine patrol aircraft on the basis of the passenger Il-114-300 was presented.

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:05 am

    The Be-200 is smaller instead, and the Il-112 and Il-114 smaller still. As consequence their range is far below.

    No, you can't really judge range by size... even a relatively small aircraft can have good range by simply carrying less mission equipment and having more fuel that normally carried by that type.

    For instance, for maritime patrols, if you are using more than one aircraft then they don't all need to be armed so that could be 2-6 tons of extra fuel some aircraft could carry to either extend flight range or mission time on patrol.

    With newer technology I am sure they could be made lighter and much more capable without needing to sacrifice range or performance.

    The simple fact is that you don't just want one plane to do everything, because it will be too big for some missions... or if you make it small it will be too small for other missions.

    That is why I would suggest having small, medium, and long range models... and also having amphibious models that could also be used for fire fighting if needed would also be useful and improve flexibility.

    The Be A-40/42 and the Be-200 were selected in 2015 between all the aircrafs of the time. Landing on sea is a good feature to add to the right size, payload and range. But all them are still aircrafts installed in an old concept of maritime patrol.

    Being able to land on water is useful, as well as being able to directly scoop up water for fire fighting missions is also useful too, but the vast majority of MPAs were Il-38s and Tu-142s.

    Being amphibious increases operating costs and increases the purchase price, but you do get a set of capabilities with those extra costs.

    What they need to do is evaluate their own experience with Mays and decide how often the ability to land on the water was actually useful, or whether it is just a nice trick like older model tanks that could operate on wheels without tracks (at higher speeds... for self deployment via good roads). It was an interesting feature that looks good on paper but in actual war situations it was rarely used so they dropped it.

    Certainly one feature of amphibious jets could be the rapid deployment or recovery of naval spetsnaz divers... or rescue at sea for people in the water or on sinking ships...

    I think A-42s and Be-200s would be useful, but I don't think they would need them everywhere and I don't think they would need a large number.

    Light and medium aircraft like the Il-112/114 and Tu-214 based types on the other hand would be very useful and I do like the idea of an AWACS Il-114 for smaller air forces and to fill gaps around the place for the Russian forces.

    I would think it might be a useful alternative to the Ka-35 being used by the Russian Army right now... the Il-114 would operate at higher altitudes but almost certainly have a much larger radar that offers a better view of the battlefield... sort of like a mini JSTARS.

    The option of these aircrafts reaching the Russian Armed Forces seems weak because a new generation of maritime patrol, reconnaisance and surveillance is being developped in the form of modern shipborne and land based UAVs.

    UAVs have moved forwards in leaps and bounds, but I still really don't think they are even close to replacing AWACS or MPA aircraft, or even primary recon.

    For surveillance and recon into dangerous air space, they are ideal, but I really don't think you can take the man out of most primary air roles yet.

    The right replacement of the Il-38 and the Tu-95/142 under a modern concept of maritime patrol and strategic bomber would be with Tu-PAK-DA plus shipborne and land based long range UAVs.

    In theory I would agree, but the PAK DA is a long way away, and will be rather more expensive than it needs to be for a MPA because an MPA does not need stealth.

    I do agree that whatever manned platform they operate will benefit from UAV support, but I think UAVs can't replace manned platforms right now or in the forseeable future... so Il-112/114 for short range, Tu-214 for Il-38 replacement and A-42 to add amphibious capability and eventually PAK DA with less emphasis on stealth as a long range MPA... and with UAVs of different sizes to support each aircraft...

    The last contract signed for the purchase of the Be-200 as firefighting aircrafts fits a role of auxiliary aircraft instead of combat aircraft role like the old form of maritime patrol. Still, the contract is very weak, and Im not sure if it will be completed.

    But that contract was with their emergency force (EMERCOM or something), not the navy... I seem to remember they ordered 4-6 and wanted a total of 10 aircraft including 4 in rescue configuration and 6 in water delivery config.
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    Post  franco on Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:23 am

    The fleet of anti-submarine amphibious aircraft Be-12 will be upgraded in Russia in 2019.

    It is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
    As specified in the department, we are talking about new anti-submarine complexes, which will increase the combat effectiveness of these machines.

    The Be-12 (Mail on NATO codification) is a Soviet anti-submarine amphibian aircraft (flying boat), on which special equipment is installed to search for and destroy enemy submarines. The aircraft can carry it in the inner compartment or on the outer suspension.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:10 am

    An interview with Sergey Abramov, Industrial Director of the Cluster of Conventional Arms, Ammunition and Special Chemistry of Rostec State Corporation,


     Recently, Tehmash announced that it is working on a new generation of anti-submarine weapons. Tell us more about this, please.
    - We have a new project for the MLRS ship-based. In addition, there are new items in the field of jet ammunition for such systems, as well as in the field of bomb weapons. You know that in 2017, the mass production of a new generation, the new anti-submarine anti-submarine bomb Zagon-2, began. In addition, at the enterprises of the Corporation, in an initiative manner, work is underway to create a new aircraft munition of increased efficiency.
    https://ria.ru/20181226/1548665881.html




    Zagon 2 ASW bomb


    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 1486800716_182



    https://topwar.ru/109055-protivolodochnyy-zagon-2-zapuschen-v-seriyu.html


    Submarine Kab "Zagon-2" is dropped from the aircraft to the surface of the sea with a parachute. When descending air resistance inflates the so-called float. For several minutes, “Zagon-2” is held on the float on the surface of the water, “specifying” the target parameters and the distance to it. The limit distance for detection is 450 m. After “clarifying” the parameters of the ammunition, it goes into combat activation mode. For reference: caliber “Zagon-2” - 232 mm, length - 150 cm, total weight - 120 kg. The warhead has a capacity of 35 kg in TNT equivalent. The explosion is provided by the operation of an electromechanical fuse.

    In JSC "NIII" it is reported that even with a targeting error of up to 200 m, the probability of hitting the target remains very high - 60%.

    It is important to note that the submarine of the Kagon Zagon-2 submarine is equipped with a self-destruct mechanism. It works if the target is not detected during that time (about 4 minutes) while the bomb is on the surface of the water. With the “approach” to the target, the adjustable bomb, which can be dropped both from the plane and from the helicopter (Ka-28), is silent.

    Press service of JSC "Research Institute":
    Zagon-2 is designed to destroy submarines in surface, periscope, underwater (up to 600 m) positions, and submarines on the ground in shallow and deep-sea areas.







    GarryB wrote:But anyway the Be-200 is rather bigger than the Il-114 and could be landed on the water surface for rescue or even just dipping sonar operations... I would still prefer the original bigger A-42 Albatross for the job though...
    b
    nope, Be-200 are to perform only SAR and fire fighting roles. Perhaps later there will be decision to restart A-40 production? 12h patrol time, 10 tons payoad ~7t weapons.

    BTW A-40 was military AFAIK






    GB wrote: Quite frankly any new aircraft types would be good... not really exciting to find newer versions of the Il-20 and Il-22 are being upgraded again and again...
    with 6 Be-200 per year how amny years you need to wait to replace existig fleet?


    “Striving to better, oft we mar what’s well.”





    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:02 am

    GarryB wrote:Yeah... when you associate Russia with anything in California it must be bad so I suspect they will think they are starting fires rather than putting them out... but what can you do... Hollywood has a transmit button but no receive button... pay them enormous amounts of money to make a movie and they make it... no questions asked...

    But anyway the Be-200 is rather bigger than the Il-114 and could be landed on the water surface for rescue or even just dipping sonar operations... I would still prefer the original bigger A-42 Albatross for the job though...

    Quite frankly any new aircraft types would be good... not really exciting to find newer versions of the Il-20 and Il-22 are being upgraded again and again...

    I believe they spoke about restarting production of the
    Beriev A-40 "Albatross" (also known as Be-42)

    https://ria.ru/20180906/1527914505.html

    The original version mounted 2 Soloviev D30 low bypass turbofan (12 tons of thrust each) and 2 smaller take-off booster jets, used only when taking off from water.
    In this case they have already modern engines on this class.
    They could use the PS-90, that replaced the D30 on the Il-76, or the PD14 later. The PS-90 can be uprated up to 17.6 tons thrust, so the take-off booster jets will not be needed.

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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:41 am

    They could use the PS-90, that replaced the D30 on the Il-76, or the PD14 later. The PS-90 can be uprated up to 17.6 tons thrust, so the take-off booster jets will not be needed.

    They did show a version with turboprops, but getting rid of the booster engines and using PS-90A3s would be a good step forward... more powerful, more fuel efficient, and lighter and likely cheaper than having four engines (two external and two internal booster engines).

    with 6 Be-200 per year how amny years you need to wait to replace existig fleet?

    Be-200 is to replace the Mail, not the May... ie Be-12, not the Il-38...

    The Il-114 will likely suppliment the May (Il-38) for shorter missions where its significant range is not needed... what they then need is something like a navalised MS-21 or Sukhoi superjet or Tu-214 to replace the May properly.

    They likely wont need a Tu-142 replacement, though it could be a MALE UAV or a variant of the PAK DA...

    Personally I would like the see EMERCOM get the Be-200s and for the Russian Navy to use the Be-42 Albatross aircraft to replace the Mails... (Be-12).
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    They could use the PS-90, that replaced the D30 on the Il-76, or the PD14 later. The PS-90 can be uprated up to 17.6 tons thrust, so the take-off booster jets will not be needed.

    They did show a version with turboprops, but getting rid of the booster engines and using PS-90A3s would be a good step forward... more powerful, more fuel efficient, and lighter and likely cheaper than having four engines (two external and two internal booster engines).

    The use of PS-90 was already considered
    http://www.pmz.ru/eng/advanced-developments/PS-90A-42/
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:00 am

    But at the time production of the aircraft was always just about to happen, and those aircraft engines were brand new and rather expensive.

    The earlier period, the focus was C4IR and the Air Force and Army... hopefully in the 2020s the Navy will get a bit more love, but it has never been a very high priority for the Russian government...
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    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:46 pm

    Hello everyone I have seen a report on Rossiya 24 about a sonobuoy being produced by Dalpribor in Primorskiy Krai. Apparently they have kept this industry since the 1990's and uses 6-axis industrial robot to mill composite material and such, and tolerances are kept to within 0.1 mm during manufacturing.

    This sonobuoy is air dropped while searching for submarines or saboteur groups. A parachute is released which allows the sonobuoy to glide down. An antenna slides up when the device hits the surface and the hydrophone operates effectively to 400 meters. The battery on board is filled with salt water which activates it, and the antenna relays underwater signals to the aircraft which deployed the device. Which the manufacturer states can be used by helicopter or plane. So IL-38 and KA-27. Is this sonobuoy a traditional means of detection for aerial asw assets of Russia or is it something that has been developed newly? Specifically the sonobuoy developed by Dalpribor.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:42 pm

    A rare type of Tu-142 seen off Iceland

    https://theaviationist.com/2019/03/25/here-are-the-first-shots-of-the-russian-navy-tu-142mk-asw-aircraft-escorted-by-the-italian-typhoons-off-iceland/

    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 IMG_3006-courtesy-ITA-Air-Force-low-rez

    Sponsored content

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