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    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie on Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:47 pm

    eehnie wrote:For me the future of the Maritime Patrol and Anti-Submarine Warfare is different. Basically the loitering work will be assumed by UAVs of different size but mostly shipborne, while the combat work will be assumed by a mix of different options.

    The main reason for this is in the costs:

    - To carry important loads of weapons while loitering, to be not used, includes important requirements on the aircrafts that are not necessary. Today there are enough long range weapons systems to allow a new operational system in which the weapons only travel when are used.
    - To carry persons while loitering also ads important requirements on the aircrafts that neither are necessary today. In the age of UAVs the operators of the aircrafts and the sensors can work from ships.
    - The costs of operation of the Maritime Patrol and ASW aircrafts under the current model are not cheap. It leads to have the aircrafts on land most of the time. It allows not a continuous work, except in the case of focusing several aircrafts in a concrete area of trategic importance.

    It was a nice series of comments in the topic of the naval aviation where all this was explained, like two years ago, but misteriously disappeared.

    1) Maritime Patrol, Early Warning, Reconnaissance, Surveillance: This part of the work likely will be done by UAVs of basically 3 sizes:

    - UAVs of small size for use from every ship.
    - Helipad based long range UAVs. (New).
    - Aircraft Carrier/Land based long range UAVs. (New).

    Likely the most important would be the second type. The main requirements for this second type would be:

    - Unmanned.
    - Shipborne.
    - Long range.
    - VTOL.
    - Size well addapted (maximized) to use in the helipads of the current combat ships. It means not bigger than current combat helicopters and lighter than them (maybe 5-7 tons).
    - Long range, maximized thanks to carry only combustible and sensor loads. It means unarmed.

    The first time I commented all this, it was almost nothing like that, but now there are public projects in Russia that would be very useful for this purpose only addapting its size to the current helipads of the combat fleet:

    http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/ru/press/news/vr_konvertoplan_2019/
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.russianhelicopters.aero%2Fru%2Fpress%2Fnews%2Fvr_konvertoplan_2019%2F

    https://life.ru/t/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8/1027612/na_maks-2017_priedstaviat_ekspierimientalnyi_biespilotnyi_konviertoplan_vrt30
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Flife.ru%2Ft%2F%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D1%2581%25D1%2582%25D0%25B8%2F1027612%2Fna_maks-2017_priedstaviat_ekspierimientalnyi_biespilotnyi_konviertoplan_vrt30

    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 95ed71a0323326d1c78a5f2e8f052dc6__1440x

    This would the list of combat ships that would be able to operate UAVs of this type with the size addapted to the current helipads (it would make a strong share of points of maritime patrol and early warning able to operate without stop):

    01 Project 11435 aircraft carrier
    03 Project 1144
    03 Project 1164
    01 Project 1134B
    09 Project 1155
    06 Project 956
    01 Project 61/01090
    02 Project 11351
    02 Project 11540
    03 Project 11356
    05 Project 20380/5
    36 TOTAL SHIPS AT THE BEGIN OF 2018

    The project of the picture is of 1.5 tons. A pretty and likely solid design only a little smaller than the necessary size to be well addapted to the current helipads of the combat ships. This is coming faster than what many people expect, and the current fleet of subsonic strategic bombers for maritime patrol can afford some years without replacement.

    2) Anti-Submarine Warfare: This part of the work will be likely done by a combination of weapons (without mention land based tactical weapons of shorter range from the coast):

    - Submarines (missiles, torpedoes,...)
    - Ships (missiles, torpedoes,...)
    - Shipborne combat helicopters. In the near future likely to become also unmanned.
    - Aircraft Carrier/Land based long range armed UAVs. (New).
    - Land based long range ASW missiles. (New).
    - Land based Strategic bombers.

    As commented I expect a new operational model for the use of Anti-Submarine weapons. A model where the weapons and ammunitions move from land or ships only to be used. The apparition of cheaper systems of long range weapons and the apparition of UAVs allow to it.

    In the case of the ammunition (missiles, torpedoes,...) launched from ships and submarines, is likely a development of new solutions to increase the range. For me this is more likely than the development of ship based armed UAVs of small or helipad size.

    Other option from the ships would be the use of combat helicopters, which natural evolution tends to make them unmanned in the future.

    Also I expect big long range UAVs that can be used both from aircraft carriers or from land. They would be able to carry enough weapons and ammunition until long ranges. I think its natural size has a limit that is coincident with the limit of size of the aircrafts operated in aircraft carriers of big size. I do not expect UAVs too big to be operated from aircraf carriers unless they are spacecrafts (satellites,..).

    Other possible option, in this case from land, is the development of land based long range missiles with conventional anti-ship and ASW loads.

    And between the mix, of weapons, I think also the Strategic Bombers (Tu-PAK-DA (New), Tu-160, Tu-22, Tu-95/142, Il-38) have an important place, specially important while the cited new types of weapons emerge. It is necessary to remember that the current Maritime Patrol and ASW aircrafts are Strategic Bombers by nature, as military concept. Free of the need of loitering, Strategic Bombers for ASW need not to be slow, and the speed becomes an interesting feature. Under this new type of operational model, the speed of the modern Strategic Bombers is a positive feature. Fast approach to the detected submarines is not a bad feature. In the future I expect every new design of strategic bomber, including the modernization of the Tu-160, well addapted to the use of maritime weapons, basically because only will be one design of Strategic Bomber by armament generation, and the design needs to be open enough to cover all the strategic bombing potential types of missions on land and on sea.

    For me the design, development and construction of new maritime patrol and ASW aircrafts in the old mold makes not sense at this point. The necessary for a new model of maritime patrol and ASW can be ready in 10 years, and this is far less than the life of a new aircraft built now:

    - This is the reason why I was able to preview here the cancellation of the contract of the Be-200 for the Russian Armed Forces.
    - This is for me the reason of why we have not news about developments in the old mold of the maritime patrol and ASW.
    - This is why we see instead the development of new Russian VTOL UAVs of increasing size.
    - And this is for me the reason of why the current Tu-95/142 and Il-38 are being modernized.

    Bolded in red for Isos. welcome
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:11 pm

    My bad. Embarassed

    Well I saw just the UAV part. But I was thinking of something between su-34 which is similar to su-30 and tu-22M which is not in production anymore.

    So a updated Tu-22 blinder would be perfect. You are talking about strategic bombers. Strategic bombers are not really needed for naval warefare because they are expensive to buy and to operate. They need something that you can produce in big quantity so a tactical bomber is better suited for the job.
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    Post  George1 on Fri May 04, 2018 12:45 pm

    Another anti-submarine Tu-142MK repaired

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3184454.html
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    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:00 pm

    KADEX 2018: UAC Showcased Maritime Patrol Variant of Il-114

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/may-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6250-kadex-2018-uac-showcased-maritime-patrol-variant-of-il-114.html

    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 KADEX_2018_UAC_Showcased_Maritime_Patrol_Variant_of_Il-114

    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 Il-114MP_MPA_Russia_ASW

    Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) has unveiled the Ilyushin Il-114MP maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) based on the Il-114-300 airlifter during KADEX 2018 defense exhibition in Kazakhstan.

    The Il-114MP has a take-off weight of 26,000 kg and features six-strong crew, including two pilots and four operators. The aircraft patrols an area with a radius of 300 km at an altitude of up to 8,000 m during 12 hours. The MPA is powered by two Klimov TV7-117ST turboprop engines with a power output of 3,000 hp each. The Il-114MP has a practical flight range of 4,500 km. The aircraft requires 950 m to take off and 530 m to land.

    The Il-114MP can be fitted with the Kasatka-S search-and-targeting system, which comprises an information management subsystem, a multipurpose radar with an active electronically scanned array, a radio sonar subsystem, a magnetometer, and an optical-electronic turret with a thermal imager, a TV channel, and a laser rangefinder. The system allows carrying of two Kh-35E anti-ship missiles and a GSh-23-2 23 mm automatic cannon. An Il-114MP MPA fitted with the Kasatka-S can detect a target at a distance of 120 km.

    A source from the Russian defence industry said the Kasatka system had been intensively tested in various regions of Russia, including the Arctic.

    At the MAKS 2015 international aerospace show, the Saint Petersburg-based Radar MMS company unveiled the Il-114LL (LL for ‘flying laboratory’) aircraft fitted with the Kasatka-S system. Radar MMS has developed several variants of the Kasatka for various air platforms, including light and medium utility helicopters (Kasatka-V and Kasatka-VB, respectively), medium and heavy MPAs (Kasatka-S and Kasatka-SB), unmanned aerial vehicles (Kasatka-BP), and aerostats (Kasatka-A).

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:10 pm

    Austin wrote:KADEX 2018: UAC Showcased Maritime Patrol Variant of Il-114

    Well how it can replace Il-38 I dotn know 2x smaller payload and range...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:18 pm

    Two different versions on your pictures. For the export it's not bad at all. For russia too.
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie on Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:11 pm

    This aircraft is unlikely to replace the Il-38. The range of this variant of the Il-114 is a little more than a half of the range of the Il-38, and less than a half of the range of the Tu-95/142. As expected the range of this aircraft falls short for the standards of Russia.

    In the positive side is that this aircraft can be shipborne, but only would be usable by aircraft carriers, which means only 1 or 2 units.

    Likely to export.

    Smaller shipborne UAVs, likely VTOL, in the size cathegory of the Ka-27/28/29/31/32/35 or under it, and as consequence usabe from a lot more ships, surely can reach ranges of this level in a few years.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:13 pm

    It is not supposed to replace the Il-38.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:09 pm

    https://russia-insider.com/en/us-fight-wildfires-russian-firefighting-aircraft/ri25344

    Good to see export sales of the Be-200 fire fighting aircraft... a firm order for four aircraft and options for 6 more to fight fires in the US and Australia....

    Hopefully boosts in sales could continue to further stimulate development of the family of aircraft...
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    Post  Hole on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:24 pm

    That proofs that evil russians started the wildfires in California!
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:07 am

    Yeah... when you associate Russia with anything in California it must be bad so I suspect they will think they are starting fires rather than putting them out... but what can you do... Hollywood has a transmit button but no receive button... pay them enormous amounts of money to make a movie and they make it... no questions asked...

    But anyway the Be-200 is rather bigger than the Il-114 and could be landed on the water surface for rescue or even just dipping sonar operations... I would still prefer the original bigger A-42 Albatross for the job though...

    Quite frankly any new aircraft types would be good... not really exciting to find newer versions of the Il-20 and Il-22 are being upgraded again and again...
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    Post  franco on Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:23 am

    The fleet of anti-submarine amphibious aircraft Be-12 will be upgraded in Russia in 2019.

    It is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
    As specified in the department, we are talking about new anti-submarine complexes, which will increase the combat effectiveness of these machines.

    The Be-12 (Mail on NATO codification) is a Soviet anti-submarine amphibian aircraft (flying boat), on which special equipment is installed to search for and destroy enemy submarines. The aircraft can carry it in the inner compartment or on the outer suspension.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:10 am

    An interview with Sergey Abramov, Industrial Director of the Cluster of Conventional Arms, Ammunition and Special Chemistry of Rostec State Corporation,


     Recently, Tehmash announced that it is working on a new generation of anti-submarine weapons. Tell us more about this, please.
    - We have a new project for the MLRS ship-based. In addition, there are new items in the field of jet ammunition for such systems, as well as in the field of bomb weapons. You know that in 2017, the mass production of a new generation, the new anti-submarine anti-submarine bomb Zagon-2, began. In addition, at the enterprises of the Corporation, in an initiative manner, work is underway to create a new aircraft munition of increased efficiency.
    https://ria.ru/20181226/1548665881.html




    Zagon 2 ASW bomb


    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 1486800716_182



    https://topwar.ru/109055-protivolodochnyy-zagon-2-zapuschen-v-seriyu.html


    Submarine Kab "Zagon-2" is dropped from the aircraft to the surface of the sea with a parachute. When descending air resistance inflates the so-called float. For several minutes, “Zagon-2” is held on the float on the surface of the water, “specifying” the target parameters and the distance to it. The limit distance for detection is 450 m. After “clarifying” the parameters of the ammunition, it goes into combat activation mode. For reference: caliber “Zagon-2” - 232 mm, length - 150 cm, total weight - 120 kg. The warhead has a capacity of 35 kg in TNT equivalent. The explosion is provided by the operation of an electromechanical fuse.

    In JSC "NIII" it is reported that even with a targeting error of up to 200 m, the probability of hitting the target remains very high - 60%.

    It is important to note that the submarine of the Kagon Zagon-2 submarine is equipped with a self-destruct mechanism. It works if the target is not detected during that time (about 4 minutes) while the bomb is on the surface of the water. With the “approach” to the target, the adjustable bomb, which can be dropped both from the plane and from the helicopter (Ka-28), is silent.

    Press service of JSC "Research Institute":
    Zagon-2 is designed to destroy submarines in surface, periscope, underwater (up to 600 m) positions, and submarines on the ground in shallow and deep-sea areas.







    GarryB wrote:But anyway the Be-200 is rather bigger than the Il-114 and could be landed on the water surface for rescue or even just dipping sonar operations... I would still prefer the original bigger A-42 Albatross for the job though...
    b
    nope, Be-200 are to perform only SAR and fire fighting roles. Perhaps later there will be decision to restart A-40 production? 12h patrol time, 10 tons payoad ~7t weapons.

    BTW A-40 was military AFAIK






    GB wrote: Quite frankly any new aircraft types would be good... not really exciting to find newer versions of the Il-20 and Il-22 are being upgraded again and again...
    with 6 Be-200 per year how amny years you need to wait to replace existig fleet?


    “Striving to better, oft we mar what’s well.”





    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:02 am

    GarryB wrote:Yeah... when you associate Russia with anything in California it must be bad so I suspect they will think they are starting fires rather than putting them out... but what can you do... Hollywood has a transmit button but no receive button... pay them enormous amounts of money to make a movie and they make it... no questions asked...

    But anyway the Be-200 is rather bigger than the Il-114 and could be landed on the water surface for rescue or even just dipping sonar operations... I would still prefer the original bigger A-42 Albatross for the job though...

    Quite frankly any new aircraft types would be good... not really exciting to find newer versions of the Il-20 and Il-22 are being upgraded again and again...

    I believe they spoke about restarting production of the
    Beriev A-40 "Albatross" (also known as Be-42)

    https://ria.ru/20180906/1527914505.html

    The original version mounted 2 Soloviev D30 low bypass turbofan (12 tons of thrust each) and 2 smaller take-off booster jets, used only when taking off from water.
    In this case they have already modern engines on this class.
    They could use the PS-90, that replaced the D30 on the Il-76, or the PD14 later. The PS-90 can be uprated up to 17.6 tons thrust, so the take-off booster jets will not be needed.

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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:41 am

    They could use the PS-90, that replaced the D30 on the Il-76, or the PD14 later. The PS-90 can be uprated up to 17.6 tons thrust, so the take-off booster jets will not be needed.

    They did show a version with turboprops, but getting rid of the booster engines and using PS-90A3s would be a good step forward... more powerful, more fuel efficient, and lighter and likely cheaper than having four engines (two external and two internal booster engines).

    with 6 Be-200 per year how amny years you need to wait to replace existig fleet?

    Be-200 is to replace the Mail, not the May... ie Be-12, not the Il-38...

    The Il-114 will likely suppliment the May (Il-38) for shorter missions where its significant range is not needed... what they then need is something like a navalised MS-21 or Sukhoi superjet or Tu-214 to replace the May properly.

    They likely wont need a Tu-142 replacement, though it could be a MALE UAV or a variant of the PAK DA...

    Personally I would like the see EMERCOM get the Be-200s and for the Russian Navy to use the Be-42 Albatross aircraft to replace the Mails... (Be-12).
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    They could use the PS-90, that replaced the D30 on the Il-76, or the PD14 later. The PS-90 can be uprated up to 17.6 tons thrust, so the take-off booster jets will not be needed.

    They did show a version with turboprops, but getting rid of the booster engines and using PS-90A3s would be a good step forward... more powerful, more fuel efficient, and lighter and likely cheaper than having four engines (two external and two internal booster engines).

    The use of PS-90 was already considered
    http://www.pmz.ru/eng/advanced-developments/PS-90A-42/
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:00 am

    But at the time production of the aircraft was always just about to happen, and those aircraft engines were brand new and rather expensive.

    The earlier period, the focus was C4IR and the Air Force and Army... hopefully in the 2020s the Navy will get a bit more love, but it has never been a very high priority for the Russian government...
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    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:46 pm

    Hello everyone I have seen a report on Rossiya 24 about a sonobuoy being produced by Dalpribor in Primorskiy Krai. Apparently they have kept this industry since the 1990's and uses 6-axis industrial robot to mill composite material and such, and tolerances are kept to within 0.1 mm during manufacturing.

    This sonobuoy is air dropped while searching for submarines or saboteur groups. A parachute is released which allows the sonobuoy to glide down. An antenna slides up when the device hits the surface and the hydrophone operates effectively to 400 meters. The battery on board is filled with salt water which activates it, and the antenna relays underwater signals to the aircraft which deployed the device. Which the manufacturer states can be used by helicopter or plane. So IL-38 and KA-27. Is this sonobuoy a traditional means of detection for aerial asw assets of Russia or is it something that has been developed newly? Specifically the sonobuoy developed by Dalpribor.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:42 pm

    A rare type of Tu-142 seen off Iceland

    https://theaviationist.com/2019/03/25/here-are-the-first-shots-of-the-russian-navy-tu-142mk-asw-aircraft-escorted-by-the-italian-typhoons-off-iceland/

    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy: - Page 10 IMG_3006-courtesy-ITA-Air-Force-low-rez

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