ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

50th Beriev aircraft overhauled. (antisubmarine aircraft Tu-142MK (hull number "51", registration number RF-34059, own the name "Yuri Malinin")



http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2071678.html

There is some new about the delivery of the ordered Be-200? I find nothing.

eehnie wrote:
There is some new about the delivery of the ordered Be-200? I find nothing.

Ministry of Defence has ordered Be-200 but not ASW version i think, only SAR

George1 wrote:

eehnie wrote:
There is some new about the delivery of the ordered Be-200? I find nothing.

Ministry of Defence has ordered Be-200 but not ASW version i think, only SAR

Not sure really about the first order, but some units with antisubmarine warfare should come according to the reports.

http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-orders-submarine-killer-be-200-amphibious-aircraft-production-2020-official-2015061

The Be-200 and the Be-A-40/42 were the aircrafts selected to replace the Be-12 and the Il-38.

First Il-38 flew 55 years ago September 28th.

http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2016/0928/180537311/detail.shtml

New modernized Il-38N (7th)



In Zhukovsky filmed the final flight testing after upgrading anti-IL-38N ASW Russian Navy aircraft (tail number "11 Yellow", the name "Michael Verbitsky"). This is the seventh modernized Il-38N and the first modernized board contracted in 2015 for two cars.

JSC "Aviation Complex named after SV Ilyushin "in May 2015 concluded with the Russian Ministry of Defence contract to modernize a production next two combat aircraft IL-38 variant of the Il-38N, the term of the contract - in November 2017. Direct the work performed by him JSC "20th Aircraft Repair Plant" in Pushkin near St. Petersburg (repair) and Moscow JSC "Experimental Machine-Building Plant named after VM Myasishcheva" based in Zhukovsky (installation of a new search and sighting system "Novella -P-38 "produced by JSC" Leninist ").

The first upgraded aircraft under this contract (serial number 880 010 308, serial number 103-08) now passes tests in Zhukovsky, was built in 1968 and was part of the aviation of the Northern Fleet. After the modernization of the aircraft was named in honor of the maritime pilot Hero of the Soviet Union MK Verbitsky (1917 - 1944).

Previously, from 2012 to 2015, naval aviation of the Russian Navy received six modernized Il-38N (yellow board numbers "15", "19", "23", "24", "27" and "78"), five of which were modernized under a contract dated May 2012.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2241950.html

Eighth modernized Il-38N

In Zhukovsky spotters filmed the final flight testing after upgrading one anti-submarine aircraft Il-38N of Naval aviation of Russia. This is the eighth modernized Il-38N and the second board modernized under a contract in 2015 for two cars.

JSC "Aviation Complex named after SV Ilyushin" in May 2015 concluded with the Russian Ministry of Defence contract to modernize a production next two combat aircraft IL-38 variant of the Il-38N, the term of the contract - in November 2017. Direct the work performed by him JSC "20th Aircraft Repair Plant" in Pushkin near St. Petersburg (repair) and Moscow JSC "Experimental Machine-Building Plant named after VM Myasishcheva" based in Zhukovsky (installation of a new search and sighting system "Novella P-38").

The first on this contract was upgraded aircraft with serial number 880010308 (serial number 103-08), received hull number "11 Yellow", registration number RF-75 308 and the name "Michael Verbitsky".

The second and last modernized under this contract aircraft with serial number 081011006 (serial number 110-06), passing modernization tests in Zhukovsky now, was built as an IL-38 in 1971 and previously flew as part of the Northern Fleet aviation, from the end of the 1990s was a member of 444th Center deployment and retraining flight personnel of the air Force and air Defence Russian Navy Island (Pskov region), and since 2010 - in the newly formed 859th Center deployment and training of flight crews of Russian Navy aviation in Yeisk.

Previously, from 2012 to 2015, naval aviation of the Russian Navy received six modernized Il-38N (yellow board numbers "15", "19", "23", "24", "27" and "78"), five of which were modernized under a contract dated May 2012.



http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2341327.html

Zhukovsky (Moscow reg.), January 31 - RIA Novosti. The modernization program of 30 anti-IL-38 to the level of IL-38N will be executed to 2025, he told reporters on Tuesday the commander of the naval aviation of the Russian Navy, Major General Igor Kozhin.

In Zhukovsky near Moscow on Tuesday a solemn ceremony of awarding the modernized anti-aircraft Il-38N named Colonel-General Viktor Pavlovich Potapov - Commander of the Navy aircraft in 1988-1994.

"The modernization program will last until 2025, so the plan to modernize all these terms to perform" - Kozhin said, answering the question of what date will upgrade all 30 Il-38 aircraft.

He added that the Il-38N, put into service in Zhukovsky near Moscow will be transferred to ground testing complex naval aviation in Yeisk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2G4xvodNkE

Just realized that there's a maritime patrol variant of the Be-200 called the Be-220, this variant looks very comparable to the P-8 Poseidon, would be very useful for countries like Vietnam.

By no means comparable. P-8 has bigger capacity engines and 4 times longer range than Be-200 variant. Be A-42 Albatros could be closer to P-8. A Tu-204 modification however could be the better comparable

George1 wrote:By no means comparable. P-8 has bigger capacity engines and 4 times longer range than Be-200 variant. Be A-42 Albatros could be closer to P-8. A Tu-204 modification however could be the better comparable

"4 time longer range"??...... don't get Ferry Range mixed up with Combat Radius, although this is assuming the "range" of the Be is range with payload, that said, the P-8 still has more than double the Ferry range.

There were mentions that 4 Albotroses were ordered for patrol purposes, but i have heard nothing more.

As for the Tu-204, the only thing i can see is a revamped Tu-214R.
There is also the MS-21 and the SuperJet-100 (if i am reading these specs right), although the Tupolev will probly take less time to get to service.

AlfaT8 wrote:As for the Tu-204, the only thing i can see is a revamped Tu-214R.
There is also the MS-21 and the SuperJet-100 (if i am reading these specs right), although the Tupolev will probly take less time to get to service.

The SSJ-100 has already been dismissed by the military if I'm not mistaken and the MS-21 will be prioritary used for civilian customers, so in a middle to short term: a Tu-204/214 based variant would definitely be the best option to replace the IL-38N.

Even if the IL-38N have been modernised, they won't soldier on forever...

Dorfmeister wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:As for the Tu-204, the only thing i can see is a revamped Tu-214R.
There is also the MS-21 and the SuperJet-100 (if i am reading these specs right), although the Tupolev will probly take less time to get to service.

The SSJ-100 has already been dismissed by the military if I'm not mistaken and the MS-21 will be prioritary used for civilian customers, so in a middle to short term: a Tu-204/214 based variant would definitely be the best option to replace the IL-38N.

Even if the IL-38N have been modernised, they won't soldier on forever...  

Aren't they pushing for Il-114 as ASW aircraft?

Saw a prototype a while back.

Dorfmeister wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:As for the Tu-204, the only thing i can see is a revamped Tu-214R.
There is also the MS-21 and the SuperJet-100 (if i am reading these specs right), although the Tupolev will probly take less time to get to service.

The SSJ-100 has already been dismissed by the military if I'm not mistaken and the MS-21 will be prioritary used for civilian customers, so in a middle to short term: a Tu-204/214 based variant would definitely be the best option to replace the IL-38N.

Even if the IL-38N have been modernised, they won't soldier on forever...  

No, no, i am not proposing a replacement for the Il-38s, they just got upgraded, but a Russian competitor to the P-8.

PapaDragon wrote:Aren't they pushing for Il-114 as ASW aircraft?

Saw a prototype a while back.

Unlikely, considering it's range or lack there of.
On top of that it's propeller driven.

AlfaT8 wrote:...............

PapaDragon wrote:Aren't they pushing for Il-114 as ASW aircraft?

Saw a prototype a while back.

Unlikely, considering it's range or lack there of.
On top of that it's propeller driven.

I assumed propeller is an advantage for this type of work.

In that case then it's definitely Tu-204/214 as the best option. MS-21 will be booked with civilian orders for years and it is kinda a waste to use such fancy bird as ASW.

PapaDragon wrote:MS-21 will be booked with civilian orders

From what i know, the Avionics of the Irkut MC-21 is designed together with Thales and Honeywell as it was purposed to be a Civilian plane... <--- Hence the Russian MOD is technically NOT allowed to purchase it unless they were to create another variant which ditches all Western avionics for Russian ones... Possible but will take a while to redesign probably... I may be wrong tho....

max steel wrote:.P-8 does not have Magnetic Anomally Dectection sensors.US Navy chooses not to use it

Yes... the USN ditched the MAD for another system that uses a hydrocarbon sensor to detect fuel vapors from diesel-powered submarines and ships instead... I don't know the effectiveness of this system tho but considering the USN also has high standards for their equipment design requirements... I assume that it will slightly lower or JUST as effective at detecting subs as Contemporary US MAD systems tho BUT i may just be overestimating it...

max steel wrote:I don't know why many people carry the preconceived notion that US ASW skills are extraordinary.

Because US technology in Passive Sonar was superior to the soviets during the mid cold war until the akulas but at that point, people already had their minds implanted with the niche that the US Sonars are God like when the Soviets have improved it on their Newer subs ( Akula II, Kilo class and any newer subs than these two).... With Maskirovka in mind, i doubt the Russians will change the people's mindset as Severely underestimating Russian Systems MIGHT be good for the MoD.... or we could be swallowing a shit ton of Russian Propaganda as well... Goes both ways Both nation has propaganda efforts.... but for now, i'm for the prior instead of later

militarov wrote:Turboprops have certain advantages for ASW aircraft

Is it? I'm curious to see how actually... Isn't Turbojet just better in terms of combat efficiency as you have better speed control and such? Getting the hell out seems like a good thing to be able to do once the enemy has had enough of your presence and decides to try shoot you down.... also Better power plants for more power demanding avionics no?


TBH, i think Russia's best option for medium Range ASW right now is the A-40s to run together with the IL-38Ns together And for Long range.... Tu-204s but that plane's Range is shit tbh so i'd say modify an Il-96 PS-90A1? But i don't think there are any Il-96 400s that are being turned for military purposes are there? Only a tanker variant was proposed no?

Yes... the USN ditched the MAD for another system that uses a hydrocarbon sensor to detect fuel vapors from diesel-powered submarines and ships instead... I don't know the effectiveness of this system tho but considering the USN also has high standards for their equipment design requirements... I assume that it will slightly lower or JUST as effective at detecting subs as Contemporary US MAD systems tho BUT i may just be overestimating it...

The Soviets have been using fuel sniffing technology for years and it is not a good replacement for MAD.

The smell of burnt diesel does not tell you if it is a sub or a fishing boat or commercial container ship... you use such information to narrow your search for a target.

MAD is no good for such things... it is used in the final kill stage to precisely locate the underwater target... a huge change in the earths magnetic field that moves and is underwater is a submarine... a fuel sniffer wont give you that sort of pin point information.

Is it? I'm curious to see how actually... Isn't Turbojet just better in terms of combat efficiency as you have better speed control and such? Getting the hell out seems like a good thing to be able to do once the enemy has had enough of your presence and decides to try shoot you down.... also Better power plants for more power demanding avionics no?

Most ASW operations involve flying low and slow... dropping expendible sonobouys and then using their information to triangulate the location of an enemy sub and then using that information to fly patterns using MAD to get a much more precise location followed by an attack with depth charges or torpedoes.

Turbofans are great for long range high altitude subsonic cruise... turbojets would be good for supersonic flight or less efficient subsonic flight... turboprops as used on the Il-38 and Tu-142 and also the P-3 Orion are standard engine equipment for such roles.

GarryB wrote:Turbofans are great for long range high altitude subsonic cruise... turbojets would be good for supersonic flight or less efficient subsonic flight...

Sorry.... Yeah i meant TurboFan engines... like the Kawasaki F-7.... Seems that newer Medium range ASW have started to use Turbofan more often than Turboprop....

Militarov wrote:USN claims MAD is of limited use on altitudes P-8 is flying, and that extremly sensitive acoustic sensors they developed are giving far better results.

MAD sensors becomes ineffective beyond 500 feet altitude from what i heard.... I assume their sensors are upgraded Sonobouys... newer VLAD or DICASS sonobouys maybe?