Russian Gun Artillery Thread

The combat compartment of the 2S41 Drok self-propelled mortar based on the K-4386 armored car. There is a gunner on the left, a loader on the right. The rate of fire of the 82-mm mortar reaches 12 rounds per minute. The range of destruction is 6000 meters. The ammunition supply is 40 mines. 

82-mm silent wearable mortar 2B25 Gall during the passage of military tests. This mortar was developed in the Nizhny Novgorod Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" (Eng: Thunderbird) and is intended for special purpose units. According to the stated characteristics, it is capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 1200 meters, while the practical rate of fire of the mortar reaches 15 rounds per minute. Currently, the 2B25 Gall is the only silent model of mortar weapons on the world arms market.

The first batch of the latest Drok mortars will be delivered for trial operation in 2022.

The first batch of the latest 82 mm self-propelled mortars 2S41 "Drok" will be delivered for trial operation in 2022. This was reported to TASS by the press service of the Uralvagonzavod concern (UVZ, part of Rostec State Corporation) during the Army-2021 military-technical forum.

"State tests [of Drok] are planned to be completed in 2022, and in the same year it is planned to deliver a batch of vehicles for experimental military operation" – the Uralvagonzavod informed.

According to the concern, currently the prototypes of the Drok self-propelled mortar are at the final stage of preliminary testing.

The Drok complex is based on the Typhoon-Airborne armored vehicle and is designed to support amphibious assault units. The mortar can fire conventional ammunition, as well as new mines with increased power and range. Shooting is possible from the combat compartment of the car and from the ground. The mass of the "Drok"is 14 tons, the crew is four people. The range of the mortar is from 100 meters to 6 km, the rate of fire is about 12 rounds per minute, and the ammunition load is 40 minutes.

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Russian_Patriot_ wrote:The rate of fire of the 82-mm mortar reaches 12 rounds per minute.

Those are terrible characteristics for an 82mm mortar, they should have at least included a chain rammer and ready rack.

Hell a good crew could probably match that fire rate with a 160mm mortar for a few minutes.

??? there is quite a difference between hand loading 12 x 4kg bombs into a mortar breach every minute, and directing 12 x 40kg bombs into a mortar breach.

Obviously if they wanted speed then a Vasilek mortar design firing at a cyclic rate of well over 100 rounds per minute would have been an obvious choice... replace the four bomb clip with a continuous belt feed, but I suspect the core idea is mobility and protection for the mortar team... having an enormous rate of fire is not so critical these days because you can angle your shots so multiple rounds can land almost at once, and when launched from different locations means you would get a good coverage of the target area fairly quickly rather than having to build up fire with spotting shots to start with.

This is a clever vehicle that could be used in any weather to drop bombs on targets... the key is integrating it into your network so all the calculations are done including the angles and types of loads, so the loader just sets the fuses correctly and attaches the correct number of propellent bags to get a good pattern of HE on target.

I suspect it possibly might even have an automatic fuse setter so they just need to get the propellent load right.

Not many current Russian infantry crews with a 12.7mm HMG supporting them everywhere they go...

Their shoot and scoot ability would be through the roof.

Its an airborne vehicle. It wouldn't have the hordes of trucks and trains that ground based artillery batteries have at their beck and call to shuttle them hundreds of tons of ammo per day. As such it makes little sense for it to have the impressive rates of fire of the Vasilek when it would run out of rounds in less than 30 seconds of firing.

lyle6 wrote:Its an airborne vehicle

Ah I guess it makes a bit more sense then.

The choice of a manually breach loaded 82mm is still strange though, do they have guided rounds for it?

It could probably also do with a chain rammer, I cannot imagine that loading this thing would be very comfortable in it's current form.

The rounds would be 4-5kgs each, so it would be easier to load than a 120mm mortar with 16kg bombs or even a 125mm tank gun with rounds weighing 20kgs or more, plus 10+kg propellent stubs...

Much of the time this vehicle will be firing from behind cover out of line of sight and will likely be using drones or special forces spotters to correct fire, but with land navigation and communications systems and all sorts of vehicle stabilisers and gyros it should be pretty accurate with its first few shells anyway.

They have larger weapons than this in service... like the rather popular 120mm NONA... also used by the VDV, and no doubt an Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and even Typhoon models in 120mm will be dead certains... and presumably use unmanned turrets and therefore fully automated loading and ammo handling systems.

A breach loading system has the flexibility of allowing the breach to be reopened before firing and change round types if wanted but I would think this is already a potent mobile vehicle with excellent fire power and mobility.

GarryB wrote:The rounds would be 4-5kgs each, so it would be easier to load than a 120mm mortar with 16kg bombs or even a 125mm tank gun with rounds weighing 20kgs or more, plus 10+kg propellent stubs...

What I meant to say was that loading rounds into an elevated gun that is mounted on the roof would likely not be very comfortable or easy to do quickly.
Remember you essentially need to throw the rounds into the breach and in the case of this vehicle you will need to throw them into a breach that is above you and most likely at an elevated angle.

I would imagine that simply adding a chain rammer to ram in the rounds would be a lot better than requiring the loader to fling them up against gravity and get a hit in the face by the fins of an 82mm mortar bomb if he does not ram them in hard enough.

What I meant to say was that loading rounds into an elevated gun that is mounted on the roof would likely not be very comfortable or easy to do quickly.

Did you look at the photo at the top of this page?

The gun is clearly elevated to about 45 degrees or more... raising the angle a little would make very little difference to how easy it would be to shove a 5kg 82mm mortar bomb into the tube and close the block behind it to seal the tube for firing.

Remember you essentially need to throw the rounds into the breach and in the case of this vehicle you will need to throw them into a breach that is above you and most likely at an elevated angle.

The turret does not have a bustle that turns with the turret and ammo will be stored all around the compartment.

You could use the first 12 most convenient ammo storage slots for your first 12 rounds to fire... line them up... put the extra propellent around their stalks and tie it on... ready to load... after you fire them get the next 12 rounds of whatever type ready and put them in the first 12 rounds slots ready to go.

These rounds are about 5kgs each... it is not like a 160mm mortar that is 40kgs each... you can pick them up and load them with one hand.

More importantly they are not super long like the 73mm rounds fired in the BMP-1 so they are easy to handle and the turret looks like it has a bit of space.

Gunner on the left and loader on the right... the commander will be in the front with the driver... so plenty of room in the turret and I suspect the gunner could hand rounds to the gunner if needed too.

Most of the mortar is sticking out of the turret with only a small bit inside the turret where you put the rounds.

An ammo rammer would take up space and make the vehicle more cramped and harder to operate.

I would imagine that simply adding a chain rammer to ram in the rounds would be a lot better than requiring the loader to fling them up against gravity and get a hit in the face by the fins of an 82mm mortar bomb if he does not ram them in hard enough.

Pushing a 5kg bomb up into a tube with a breach block on half cock stopping it from falling back... even with a vertical gun would not be that hard.

Look at the photo again.

A heavy rapid-fire self-propelled gun will be created on the basis of Armata, sources said.

On the basis of the unified Armata platform, the Uralvagonzavod concern is developing a heavy rapid-fire self-propelled artillery gun of 152 mm caliber, two sources in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti. Russia needs a new self-propelled gun for superiority over a technically comparable opponent.

"As part of the program to expand the range of armored vehicles on the Armata platform, in addition to the already created tank, IFV and engineering vehicle, Uralvagonzavod is developing a heavy self-propelled artillery gun of 152 mm caliber with an increased rate of fire" – one of the agency's interlocutors said.

He added that the project is currently at the stage of scientific research.

Another source in the defense industry told RIA Novosti that "a promising self-propelled gun on the Armata platform will have an improved combat module from the Coalition-SV artillery installation with an increased rate of fire."

"The project also considers the possibility of implementing a double-barreled turret in the new SPG, which will provide the complex with an unprecedented rate of fire of 30 rounds per minute for heavy artillery guns" – the second interlocutor said.

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We´re back to that, right? 30 shots per minute is...

Hole wrote:
We´re back to that, right? 30 shots per minute is...

same shell throughput as a platoon of Msta-S, so theoretically two such vehicles alone can replace an entire howitzer battery.

They would have to design an armored ammo resupply vehicle to keep up with the prodigious shell consumption. Still, a howitzer + ARV might end up cheaper than three howitzers put together.

They could replace the Bereg 130mm calibre coastal gun system with it... better range, heavier shell, better rate of fire, better accuracy...

GarryB wrote:They could replace the Bereg 130mm calibre coastal gun system with it... better range, heavier shell, better rate of fire, better accuracy...

On a wheeled platform or tracked?

I would replace the turret of the Bereg with a new turret for the Coalition, so it would remain wheeled along with all its support vehicles...

It is good to hear that they will return to the original over under design, I loved that thing.

Magnolia

Phlox

Tigr-M with 120mm mortar is called Gorets. It has finished factory trials.

Found a Russian MoD exercise clipper:

Pic from the past, should be the 2A3 406,4mm gun

Nice videos.

To answer the question how do they manually load a mortar in cramped conditions when the barrel is angled upwards have a look at this video again.



From about the 15 second point you can see the gun is angled up and there is a small wedge at the bottom of the breach that gets pushed down and out of the way as the round being loaded gets pushed past it... then it pops up to stop the round sliding backwards under gravity.

With the round being held in place the gunner will then press a button for the breach block to close the chamber end of the gun ready for firing.

Here are the stills from that video:



Here is the empty chamber, you can see the wedge at the bottom of the tube that holds the loaded round in place.



Here is the round in the chamber with the wedge at the bottom popping back up after the round was pushed past it with manual loading to stop it sliding back out of the tube.

This is after the loader has closed the breach the rammer has pushed the round into the breach and closed the chamber behind the round ready to fire.

In this case this is a 120mm round which weighs about 16kgs... not super heavy and something you can push upwards into position fairly easily.

Further up this thread the question was asked about an 82mm mortar whose bomb is only about 4-5kgs and is much lighter and easier to load.

This is a real champion artillery list of weapons above including the 203mm gun with its 110kg HE rounds that are wheeled on a little trolley and loaded essentially by a robotic crane into the chamber of the gun.

Though it did miss this:



Note the manually cranked cranes to lift the ammo out of ammo boxes placed beside the vehicle, and the engine powered rammer to load the round from the top of the vehicle... after taking the round out of the box and placing it on the top of the vehicle they insert the fuse in the nose and the primer and propellent charge into the tail of the round and then wrap extra bag propellent charges around the tail and tie them with string and then ram the round into the mortar tube which then reorients itself from horizontal to the needed angle to fire.

Those HE bombs are 130kgs... well beyond the weight any soldier could manhandle themselves without assistance... though perhaps in the future we could have soldiers in exosuits with a round slung under each arm while another guy fuses and primes it for loading it into the tube....