Su-30 for Russian Air Force

GarryB wrote:

I have read some conflicting reports about the inception of Su-30. Some reports say that PVO wanted a plane that has similar dogfighting/ A2A ability of the Su-27S, but should have a longer range. Hence they chose the 2 seater derivative of Su-27 i.e. Su-27UB, because it had a very similar aerodynamic performance like the Su-27 and had 2 pilots, which simply meant less load for the pilots for a long mission.

The two seat Su-27UB has less range than the standard single seat Su-27 because the second cockpit reduces fuel capacity, but retains full radar and air to air capability.

GJ Flanker wrote:If the situation in Ukraine should escalate, the Su-30SM would be the ideal fighter aircraft to use.

The Su-30SM possesses serious attack capabilities and supermanoeuvrability, both in one aircraft. The pilot-operator combination should exclude any mistakes by the human factor.

Still Su-35S could patrol over the Crimea/Black Sea to ensure a deeper look into the Ukrainian airspace.

TR1 wrote:

TR1 wrote:The black bird?

Nah that's the S-37 test bird.

My fav Sukhoi of all time .

Indian Flanker wrote:Is it true that Su-30SM has slightly more engine thrust when compared with Su-30MKI?

Indian Flanker wrote:If NATO sanctions the import of warfare technology to Russia, will this affect production of Su-30SM? I don't know how much French stuff it uses vis-a-vis Su-30MKI!

Stealthflanker wrote: Beside if needed anyway Russia can source it from Indian parts i think   

Russia has placed orders worth Rs 65 crore for procuring 34 radar computers for Su-30s of its air force.

"Irkut Corporation of Russia has confirmed purchase of 34 sets each of Radar Computer-I & Radar Computer-II for Russian Air force requirements from HAL with delivery schedule commencing from January 2014 onwards," the premier Indian aerospace PSU said in a release.

"The value of the contract is Rs 65 crore," it said. Radar computers are integrated into Airborne Radar System in Su-30s and are very critical for mission operation of the aircraft," it said.

Till date, a total of 300 of these computers are produced by the HAL for various aircraft programmes of Indian Air Force, Algerian Air force and Russian Airforce through Rosoboronexport.

HAL is in-charge for license-producing the Su-30MKIs for the IAF and has been working towards indigenising several components of the aircraft to reduce dependence on imports for spare parts and other equipment.

Under the Indian programme, more than 190 Su-30MKIs would be produced in Indian facilities in Nashik, which is the HAL hub for manufacturing Russian-origin aircraft.

Indian Flanker wrote:

Stealthflanker wrote: Beside if needed anyway Russia can source it from Indian parts i think   

They already do that. Read this report:
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-02-08/news/36993326_1_su-30s-premier-indian-aerospace-irkut-corporation

Russia has placed orders worth Rs 65 crore for procuring 34 radar computers for Su-30s of its air force.

"Irkut Corporation of Russia has confirmed purchase of 34 sets each of Radar Computer-I & Radar Computer-II for Russian Air force requirements from HAL with delivery schedule commencing from January 2014 onwards," the premier Indian aerospace PSU said in a release.

"The value of the contract is Rs 65 crore," it said. Radar computers are integrated into Airborne Radar System in Su-30s and are very critical for mission operation of the aircraft," it said.

Till date, a total of 300 of these computers are produced by the HAL for various aircraft programmes of Indian Air Force, Algerian Air force and Russian Airforce through Rosoboronexport.

HAL is in-charge for license-producing the Su-30MKIs for the IAF and has been working towards indigenising several components of the aircraft to reduce dependence on imports for spare parts and other equipment.

Under the Indian programme, more than 190 Su-30MKIs would be produced in Indian facilities in Nashik, which is the HAL hub for manufacturing Russian-origin aircraft.

@TR1

If France bans the sale of Thales HUD, would Russia look to exchange the Thales HUD with their own one? Or would they look to procure it underhand from HAL(say HAL orders these Thales HUDs for themselves, and then supplies it to Irkut)?

TR1 wrote:I think Thales won't stop sales.

Russian 5th-gen Su-30SM super-maneuverable jet fighters

The Russian air force took delivery this month of the first two of a planned 30 Sukhoi Su-30SM jet fighters. This aircraft, an advanced version of the Su-30MKI fighter that Russia developed together with India, takes Russian military aviation a big step forward.

At first glance, the new Su-30SM twin-engine fighter has a profile that looks similar to the U.S. Air Force Boeing F-15E jet fighter-bomber. It has straight up-and-down twin tails and big square engine intakes. Suffice it to say, this aircraft isn’t stealthy like the U.S. Lockheed Martin F-22 and F-35 combat aircraft.

The Su-30SM presents a big fat radar cross section, which could make it detectable at long ranges. Still, I don’t think surprise and stealth is a big part of this new aircraft. The Su-30SM is big, powerful, and looks like it’s designed for close-up dogfighting.

Although the Su-30SM is weak in stealth capabilities, its major ace-in-the-hole is its maneuverability. The aircraft has one of the most modern thrust vectoring systems in the world, and most likely would be a match even for the world’s most advanced jet fighters in close-quarters combat.
Thrust vectoring means the Su-30SM has the ability to manipulate the direction of its engine thrust to control speed and turning. Few other of the world’s aircraft have this capability. In the U.S. only the F-22 and F-35 have any thrust vectoring capability at all, and perhaps not as advanced as the Su-30SM.

When we think of jet fighters, we usually think speed; the faster the aircraft can get to the fight, the more effective it will be. Still, the main advantage of the Su-30SM might be its ability to fly slowly.

The jet’s thrust vectoring gives it the ability to hang in the air virtually motionless without stalling. When it does that, everyone else just flies right past it. Few other combat aircraft in the world may be as maneuverable as the Su-30SM.

In addition to thrust vectoring, the new Russian fighter — like its Su-30MKI predecessor — has avionics appropriate for fighters, ground-attack capabilities, and canards and a long-range phased-array radar system for the air-superiority role.

For proponents of advanced fighters like the F-35, F-22, and the Eurofighter, looks like there’s a new game in town.

GarryB wrote:A couple of points...

First of all Russian fighters are not designed to fight on their own... they will have IADS support which means while a stealth fighter might be able to detect the Flanker at very long range and not be detected on the Flankers large radar till it gets much closer, the Flanker will likely also know that stealth aircraft is there because of the data coming in from other platforms including ground based radar and assets.

Assuming they both have a general idea of where the other is... what can happen next?

Both have BVR missiles, but without a lock the Flanker wont be able to fire unless it gets new IIR seeker long range missiles. For the super expensive US planes however the situation is not much better because AMRAAM can be defeated and once the stealth plane has fired 4-6 of them it is down to guns and WVR missiles and dogfighting.

In other words the stealth concept of the long range sniper falls over when all the enemy are sitting in armoured vehicles and if the only way to fight the enemy is get up close and personal then thrust vector engines and lots of IR guided missiles should win the fight... which is going to be carrying lots of IR or IIR guided missiles and have full 3D TVC engines?

once the stealth plane has fired 4-6 of them it is down to guns and WVR missiles and dogfighting

I don't think it matters who has more IR missiles when the opponent has at least 4 already. I don't think that an engagement ever decided in the 5th or 6th BVR missile.

It's not about one on one like you "simulate" but more that Sukhoi has better range, can remain more time in the sky, needs less maintenance, can fly more sorties, cost much less and can be produced in greater numbers. This factors can seriously be killers in a REAL situation.

What happened in Vietnam should suffice to bring forth the point that the days of gun-fighting and coming to a merge is not over, and may not be over even in future.