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    Chinese Civil Aviation and Shipbuilding

    lancelot
    lancelot


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    Post  lancelot Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:44 am

    China is designing its own CJ-1000 engine for this aircraft. And I would not be surprised if they were making their own versions of the other components as well. But the Chinese engine is not expected to enter mass production before near the end of this decade.
    Chinese Civil Aviation and Shipbuilding - Page 2 Image25

    China does have the WS-20 engine which just entered mass production recently and will be used in the Y-20 military transport aircraft. But it does not have competitive performance against the CFM Leap used in the C919. It is probably closer to CFM 56 series. The CJ-1000 is being designed to be a replacement for the CFM Leap.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:24 pm

    In case this wasn't posted before: https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/chinas-planned-nuclear-icebreaker/
    kommer2016
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    Post  kommer2016 Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:34 pm

    looking at that section of steel looks like for a ballast tank i think, looks to be well made you can see decent welds on the steel, so id say it would be a good made vessel.

    Tony.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:28 am

    Not sure where to post this.

    libijian李碧建
    @libijian2
    ·
    6h
    China government official
    China Eastern Airlines has taken delivery of its 1st #C919 passenger jet on Friday. Developed by the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, the C919 is China's 1st domestically built large passenger aircraft.

    Chinese Civil Aviation and Shipbuilding - Page 2 FjgfYMmXgAcUQzM?format=jpg&name=small
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    owais.usmani


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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:40 pm

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:29 am

    The first serial Chinese passenger aircraft С919 was delivered

    Chinese Civil Aviation and Shipbuilding - Page 2 99682110
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    Chinese Civil Aviation and Shipbuilding - Page 2 99672810
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    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4627797.html

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:18 pm

    From an interview with Aeroflot general director.


    The C919 is the same aircraft as the Superjet or MS-21 in their non-import-substituted versions. “That is, the chance of this Chinese aircraft getting into the fleets of Russian carriers is zero, even if the Chinese themselves want it.”
    Same aircraft here means that it has a very large share of Western components and can be easily grounded due to sanctions.

    So China cannot sell it to Russia, but also not to Siria, Iran, Venezuela and Nord Korea.
    What China did here is not more than what Brasil did with the Embraer E-Jet series, except the size of the aircraft is bigger. That is, they produced the fuselage and some other parts and imported everything else. (And in most cases, the suppliers are the same that supply Boeing and Airbus aircrafts).

    Maybe Russia could propose China to help them certify an alternative version of the C919 without western components (e.g. with PD-14 engines and with the avionics, navigation and other internal system developed for the Russianised MC-21).

    The problem here would be the engine, as the current foreseen engine production rates, even taking into account the second assembly line, are barely enough for the planned MC21 production.

    Anyway, even if Russia solved the issues limiing the engine production rates and became the main suppliet for a western content free C919, it would not make sense for Russia to buy them, as they would just be a worse alternative to the MC-21.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:56 pm

    China build it for its own needs. They don't care about export. If they want customers they will target asian companies. Plenty of asian operators depend highly on chinese tourism so they can press them to buy this plane. But full production will be for the domestic needs.

    Russian ms-21 is in the same class. Why would they buy it even if it is 100% chinese ? Depending on China the same way they depended on western aircraft is dumb. Build your own planes and stick with them.

    China will get the same sanctions as Russia one day. They better make a variant with russian engines to prevent loosing all their planes. Chinese engines aren't good enough for civilian planes. No insurance company will take them.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:05 pm

    They will also have to overcome the fact that this is the first chibese plane in that class. It's impossible that it is better than Airbus or Boeing competitors so even in the domestic market it may be a failure.

    Companies wants the safest planes because once it has an accident with plenty of killed they have big problems with their clients.

    Just like ssj-100 isn't being that much used and russian companies still prefere Airbus and Boeing. What can make them successful is full sanctions and no other choice than buy these domestic products.

    But if Airbus and Boeing are in the game they will struggle signing contracts and be used.

    Russia made a big mistake not using tu-204 and selling it to its national companies. MS-21 has also this problem of being new with no background.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:15 pm

    China just exported their first ARJ-21 regional airliner to Indonesia. So that might be a possible export target for C919 as well.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:06 pm

    Arj-21 is the copy of the licence build Macdonnel Douglas MD-90. It also uses a western engine.

    C919 compete with A320 and B737, the most successful, advanced and used aircraft of Airbus and Boeing.

    First, they will struggle getting something as good as those two and then they will have very hard time getting orders.

    Made in China is synonyme of bad quality for the public in the world in general. That will be a huge obstacle and company won't really want to spend hundreds of millions on a plane that their clients don't want to fly in when there are A320 and B737 available which are more than proven design and most importantly very safe.

    African companies may be more interested but even them can get second hand airbus and boeing.

    Ms-21 can suffer the same issue but at least sanctions will oblige russian companies to buy it. And russians have a decent aircraft and engine industry, everyone knows their aircraft are robust, solid and reliable.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:28 am

    First flight of a new Chinese helicopter AC332




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    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon May 29, 2023 9:49 pm

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Mon May 29, 2023 10:36 pm

    Isos wrote:Arj-21 is the copy of the licence build Macdonnel Douglas MD-90. It also uses a western engine.

    C919 compete with A320 and B737, the most successful, advanced and used aircraft of Airbus and Boeing.

    First, they will struggle getting something as good as those two and then they will have very hard time getting orders.

    Made in China is synonyme of bad quality for the public in the world in general. That will be a huge obstacle and company won't really want to spend hundreds of millions on a plane that their clients don't want to fly in when there are A320 and B737 available which are more than proven design and most importantly very safe.

    African companies may be more interested but even them can get second hand airbus and boeing.
    The COMAC aircraft will get orders. Basically all Chinese airline companies are state owned. I wish those airline bosses luck trying to justify themselves to their CPC bosses that they won't buy the home built aircraft.

    The Chinese airline market is huge, and is the fastest growing one. So there will be enough demand for COMAC aircraft just from there.

    China has plans to replace the engines in the C919 and ARJ21 with their own CJ-1000A and CJ-500 engines eventually.

    It is quite likely that China will eventually export their aircraft to other developing nations. They will just provide them with huge loans to buy their aircraft, and sell them at rock bottom prices, just like they do for infrastructure construction.

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