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    Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM):

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    Post  limb Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:19 am

    The turks gave successfully converted the azeris soviet FAB bombs to LGBs.

    Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 8 20221011


    The Russians should do the same but also eith sat/INS guidance packages.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:59 pm

    limb wrote:The turks gave successfully converted the azeris soviet FAB bombs to LGBs.

    Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 8 20221011


    The Russians should do the same but also eith sat/INS guidance packages.

    Russia has something like that AFAIK.

    A GLONASS add-on kit for dumb bombs

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:15 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Russia has something like that AFAIK.
    A GLONASS add-on kit for dumb bombs

    You are quoting this maniac again Laughing but to be fair there is not much more to expect from them, as they really are being fed with this shit all day long for their entire lives Laughing

    Just take a look here to have some impressions :

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/bombs.htm

    Globalsecurity is objectively one of the more competent pubic domains in English.

    Just read the beginning of an article Laughing Laughing

    Russia's arsenal of precision-guided munitions [Korrektiruemye Avia Bomby - guided aviation bombs] is very limited. Russia lacks most of the modern guided ammunition types, and the available ones are very expensive, one of the main reasons being the small scale of their production. It is clear that precision-guided munitions are very expensive, since their production requires advanced navigation and targeting systems. It is unrealistic to claim that Russians could independently manage to miniaturize the guidance systems for smart ammunition.

    Holly shit, they are REALLY saying that, while on the left they are putting by themselves the assortment of only bomb load with a different kinds of correction means :

    KAB-250L 250 kg corrected bomb
    KAB-250S-E 250 kg corrected bomb
    KAB-500 500 kg corrected bombs
    KAB-500Kr corrected air bombs
    KAB-500L semi-active laser guidance
    KAB-500LG
    KAB-500-OD corrected Volume-detonating
    KAB-500S Adjustable air bomb
    KAB-500S-E Glonass Adjustable air bomb
    KAB-1500Kr 1500 kg HE corrected air bombs
    KAB-1500L controlled semi-active laser guidance
    KAB-1500L-F 1500 kg HE smart bomb
    KAB-1500LG
    KAB-1500L-Pr controlled bomb
    KAB-1500TK controlled bomb TV-command guidance
    KAB-1500S-E


    Imagine that. To produce a ton of crap that denies the obvious things you need to state yourself only to present the existing nomenclature Laughing Laughing Laughing

    They REALLY call the flexibility of new Russkie missiles systems as disadvantage and an act of desperate, imagine that respekt respekt respekt

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    Post  Hole Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:06 pm

    You can add the KAB-100, KAB-50 and KAB-20.

    It is unrealistic to claim that Russians could independently manage to miniaturize the guidance systems for smart ammunition.
    Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  limb Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:31 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Russia has something like that AFAIK.
    A GLONASS add-on kit for dumb bombs

    You are quoting this maniac again Laughing but to be fair there is not much more to expect from them, as they really are being fed with this shit all day long for their entire lives Laughing

    Just take a look here to have some impressions :

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/bombs.htm

    Globalsecurity is objectively one of the more competent pubic domains in English.

    Just read the beginning of an article Laughing Laughing

    Russia's arsenal of precision-guided munitions [Korrektiruemye Avia Bomby - guided aviation bombs] is very limited. Russia lacks most of the modern guided ammunition types, and the available ones are very expensive, one of the main reasons being the small scale of their production. It is clear that precision-guided munitions are very expensive, since their production requires advanced navigation and targeting systems. It is unrealistic to claim that Russians could independently manage to miniaturize the guidance systems for smart ammunition.

    Holly shit, they are REALLY saying that, while on the left they are putting by themselves the assortment of only bomb load with a different kinds of correction means :

    KAB-250L 250 kg corrected bomb
    KAB-250S-E 250 kg corrected bomb
    KAB-500 500 kg corrected bombs
    KAB-500Kr corrected air bombs
    KAB-500L semi-active laser guidance
    KAB-500LG
    KAB-500-OD corrected Volume-detonating
    KAB-500S Adjustable air bomb
    KAB-500S-E Glonass Adjustable air bomb
    KAB-1500Kr 1500 kg HE corrected air bombs
    KAB-1500L controlled semi-active laser guidance
    KAB-1500L-F 1500 kg HE smart bomb
    KAB-1500LG
    KAB-1500L-Pr controlled bomb
    KAB-1500TK controlled bomb TV-command guidance
    KAB-1500S-E


    Imagine that. To produce a ton of crap that denies the obvious things you need to state yourself only to present the existing nomenclature Laughing Laughing Laughing

    They REALLY call the flexibility of new Russkie missiles systems as disadvantage and an act of desperate, imagine that respekt respekt respekt
    Im talking about dumb bomb conversion kits, not guided bombs by design.

    For example, theres this mockup Kab-50 which is a rocket section of the 122mm MLRS rocket with sat/laser guidance and and control surfaces. A genius solution Those should be produced asap. Uragan 220mm rockets should also be converted to glide bombs. For the compact M-54 dumb bombs, new aerodynami nosecones with guidance kits should be added.
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    Post  sepheronx Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:20 am

    It's been the major question if the glide bombs were necessary when the guidance the was being done by the plane rather than the bomb. The guidance package isn't actually cheap and thus things like Gefast S&T was cheaper than the guidance kits on dumb bombs.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:24 am

    According to the booklet, the maximum launch range of the missile is 250 km, it can be launched from an air carrier from a height of 15 km at a speed of Mach 1.5 (about 1.7 thousand km/h). The system is 24/7 and all-weather.

    There was a report that the replacement for the Kh-31 rocket/ramjet powered missile used in anti radar and also anti ship versions is being developed that is a rocket scramjet powered hypersonic missile designed to be carried internally on the Su-57 and S-70 and Checkmate.

    Such a propulsion change should allow a tripling of the flight speed of the missile and massive increase in flight range... without a massive increase in cost or size or weight.

    Actually thinking about it they could make it an air to air anti radiation or ARH missile too as a super Meteor... a truly multipurpose missile...


    The Russians should do the same but also eith sat/INS guidance packages.

    Absolutely NOT.

    What you have to understand is that the US Paveway series of laser guidance kits are a SCAM.

    They pretend to be cheap because they use cheap dumb iron bomb payloads with the fins removed and replaced with moving surfaces from the guidance kits.

    They are suggesting that some how this makes them cheaper but in actual fact it uses up all your cheap dumb bombs and actually makes them expensive because the kits are horribly expensive.

    The Soviets and Russians recognise this and keep their cheap iron bombs cheap... direct delivery by Su-25s on target or from a distance using Gefest And T or similar aiming systems to give them acceptable accuracy means they are super cheap... the expensive stuff to make them accurate is part of the aircraft and is reused over and over... compared with the expensive stuff in US Paveway kits that is destroyed with each use.

    Russian guided bombs are custom designed which gives more flexibility in payloads and makes them rather cheaper to make and leaves caches of cheap dumb iron bombs available for use where needed.

    For instance in Syria a large group of enemy forces are detected that are spread out so one bomb can't kill them all... Tu-22M3 drops 9 x 500kg dumb bombs that are cheaper than one guided 500kg bomb that might have killed one vehicle... the spread of 9 bombs means a lot more vehicles and troops spread out will be killed because the 9 bombs spread about the point of aim and the point of aim is the centre of the group so multiple explosions around the point of aim is a much better and also cheaper way to deal with the target.

    A GLONASS add-on kit for dumb bombs

    They have a GLONASS addon fuse for artillery shells they were developing, but the satellite guided bombs are custom made because Russian designers are not scammers trying to rip off their own country.

    It is clear that precision-guided munitions are very expensive, since their production requires advanced navigation and targeting systems. It is unrealistic to claim that Russians could independently manage to miniaturize the guidance systems for smart ammunition.

    They spent billions on GLONASS to make navigation cheap and simple, and there is plenty of evidence they have succeeded in making guided weapons every bit as sophisticated and capable as any western system.

    It is unrealistic to claim that Russians could independently manage to miniaturize the guidance systems for smart ammunition.

    Yeah, like tank gun fired missiles and 57mm cannon shells... crazy...

    Im talking about dumb bomb conversion kits, not guided bombs by design.

    Dumb bombs are cheap... why make them expensive by putting a laser guidance kit on them?

    Paveway kits are a scam to make cheap dumb bombs expensive.

    The cost of designing custom designed guided bombs is in the guidance systems... not the HE payload... making a specialised HE payload for the Paveway kits would not make them much more expensive... in fact making special HE payloads that are long and narrow to fit better in internal weapon bays would probably make them cheaper than using existing iron bomb payloads that are fat and wont fit properly.


    For example, theres this mockup Kab-50 which is a rocket section of the 122mm MLRS rocket with sat/laser guidance and and control surfaces. A genius solution Those should be produced asap.

    Hardly genius... they have lots of unguided weapons that had guidance systems fitted to them... the S-8 80mm rocket has a laser homing rocket, and there is a version of the S-25 unguided rocket that has a laser homing seeker, but bombs and rockets are intended for use against area targets so the idea of making them all guided is just western bullshit trying to make cheap simple weapons expensive so they can make more money.

    Having a rocket pod on a helicopter with say 5 laser guided rockets and 15 unguided rockets means you could launch a volley of 7 and then 8 rockets at area targets and also hit 5 point targets... so for instance you come across an enemy convoy you could launch five rockets at vehicles in the convoy for direct hits, but then obviously the troops and crews will do a runner which you can mop up with salvos of unguided rockets in the directions they run.

    Having a mix of guided and unguided makes sense because it is more practical and much much cheaper.

    For the compact M-54 dumb bombs, new aerodynami nosecones with guidance kits should be added.

    The M-54s are designed for internal carriage or external carriage on subsonic aircraft and are just fine as they are... the bomb aiming precision comes from the aircraft delivering the weapons that can be reused over and over rather than destroyed with each use to make more money for the company making the product.

    Uragan 220mm rockets should also be converted to glide bombs.

    They already have a range of glide bombs including one based on the new Kh-38 called Grom I and Grom II with rocket assistance or with extra HE depending on the target.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:02 am

    GarryB wrote:
    They spent billions on GLONASS to make navigation cheap and simple, and there is plenty of evidence they have succeeded in making guided weapons every bit as sophisticated and capable as any western system.

    It is not even a point Garry.
    One of the most competent open sources in English presents its audience with an already reconstructed thesis.
    The thesis is dumb, but to realize that one must not even be a superhero in the Soviet/Russian PGM matter.
    It is enough just to take a look at the table they have created on their own to figure out that there is something bloody wrong.
    The list of specimens is triple the US equivalent!
    And even if they have - most probably deliberate - missed part of the descriptions, the sole number should turn on the thinking of the Westerner, right?
    Wrong!
    They are being treated with this medicine since they were born. Already preprogrammed, so no matter what stands behind it - they have already absorbed the thesis itself.
    Russkie are dumb, cant construct PGMs, and even if they manage - of course assisted - they can't afford them.
    And keep you eye on the fact, that the article is new or updated, with some 2022 entries about 404.
    Even the fact that Russkie released more cruise missiles than the whole NATO in 30 years in all wars they have unleashed, combined, wont make them think about the clue.
    They are incapable of critical thinking - that is the point.

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    Post  Robert.V Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:31 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Globalsecurity is objectively one of the more competent pubic domains in English.


    No.

    Globalsecurity literally just copied and pasted stuff from other sources both on the net and publication.  

    Somewhere post 2012.   They found RuNet  and what google translation is.   And started google translating and coping shit from there and adding it  to their sources without any editing  or even proper grammar.

    And that's basicly all they do.

    Hence why most of their shit looks like it's written by a schizophrenic with a poor grasp of grammar and spelling.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:42 pm

    Yes, I know that - yet it is still one of the most competent public domains in English.
    Don't tell me how frightening that is, because I know that either Laughing Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:00 am

    Globalsecurity literally just copied and pasted stuff from other sources both on the net and publication.

    Could say the same about wiki, but having all that information collated together and indexed is sometimes useful... shame the low quality of the information poisoned by the west.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:07 am

    GarryB wrote:They have a GLONASS addon fuse for artillery shells they were developing, but the satellite guided bombs are custom made because Russian designers are not scammers trying to rip off their own country.

    You might be right about that. I was thinking of some sort of very cheap add-on kit with control surfaces Russia developed; but I seem to recall that this news was in the context of the Excalibur round. Where the Excalibur had some elaborate mechanism to stop rotating periodically so that GPS can get a lock and the guidance of the round corrected.
    Well Russian designers developed an algorithm to allow a spinning shell to attain or maintain a GLONASS lock and that was that. No expensive solution and in fact the whole thing turned out ultra-cheap.

    I guess Russia can create an add-on for dumb bombs which I'm sure will be cheaper than the NATO equivalent as well.
    But a different question as to whether it's worth it. When dumb bombs are still used as is constantly, while there are plenty of guided bomb options already.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  diabetus Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:16 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Russia has something like that AFAIK.
    A GLONASS add-on kit for dumb bombs

    You are quoting this maniac again Laughing but to be fair there is not much more to expect from them, as they really are being fed with this shit all day long for their entire lives Laughing

    Just take a look here to have some impressions :

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/bombs.htm

    Globalsecurity is objectively one of the more competent pubic domains in English.

    Just read the beginning of an article Laughing Laughing

    Russia's arsenal of precision-guided munitions [Korrektiruemye Avia Bomby - guided aviation bombs] is very limited. Russia lacks most of the modern guided ammunition types, and the available ones are very expensive, one of the main reasons being the small scale of their production. It is clear that precision-guided munitions are very expensive, since their production requires advanced navigation and targeting systems. It is unrealistic to claim that Russians could independently manage to miniaturize the guidance systems for smart ammunition.

    Holly shit, they are REALLY saying that, while on the left they are putting by themselves the assortment of only bomb load with a different kinds of correction means :

    KAB-250L 250 kg corrected bomb
    KAB-250S-E 250 kg corrected bomb
    KAB-500 500 kg corrected bombs
    KAB-500Kr corrected air bombs
    KAB-500L semi-active laser guidance
    KAB-500LG
    KAB-500-OD corrected Volume-detonating
    KAB-500S Adjustable air bomb
    KAB-500S-E Glonass Adjustable air bomb
    KAB-1500Kr 1500 kg HE corrected air bombs
    KAB-1500L controlled semi-active laser guidance
    KAB-1500L-F 1500 kg HE smart bomb
    KAB-1500LG
    KAB-1500L-Pr controlled bomb
    KAB-1500TK controlled bomb TV-command guidance
    KAB-1500S-E


    Imagine that. To produce a ton of crap that denies the obvious things you need to state yourself only to present the existing nomenclature Laughing Laughing Laughing

    They REALLY call the flexibility of new Russkie missiles systems as disadvantage and an act of desperate, imagine that respekt respekt respekt

    How many of those are actually in service vs proposals?

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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:42 am

    You might be right about that. I was thinking of some sort of very cheap add-on kit with control surfaces Russia developed; but I seem to recall that this news was in the context of the Excalibur round. Where the Excalibur had some elaborate mechanism to stop rotating periodically so that GPS can get a lock and the guidance of the round corrected.
    Well Russian designers developed an algorithm to allow a spinning shell to attain or maintain a GLONASS lock and that was that. No expensive solution and in fact the whole thing turned out ultra-cheap.

    It is in one of the artillery threads, the Excalibr is $80K per shot and the Russian equivalent is $1K per shot, except the Russian equivalent is a nose mounted fuse with control fins that can be mounted on any Russian artillery round with a large fuse pocket (ie 240mm, 203mm, 180mm, 160mm, 152mm)... even ancient rounds from before WWII can use the smart fuse...


    I guess Russia can create an add-on for dumb bombs which I'm sure will be cheaper than the NATO equivalent as well.

    It makes no sense for dumb bombs as all their current upgraded or new aircraft able to carry dumb iron bombs have ballistic computers in the nav/bombing systems which allows them to accurately bomb in free flight, from down low to up high.

    The cost of a guidance kit might improve accuracy by a metre or two but would increase the price dramatically.

    It makes sense to have laser guided unguided rockets, because sometimes there is a fixed small target you want to engage for which a good HE Frag warhead is more effective than a HEAT warhead on an ATGM, but most of the time rockets are used against area targets so you need lots of unguided rockets too.

    Dumb HE bombs from an aircraft like the Tu-22M3 from 10km altitude with say 50 or 60, 100kg or 250kg bombs only makes sense if they scatter over a reasonable area to create an enormous killing zone with soft targets out in the open... something you would normally fire Grad rockets at.

    But a different question as to whether it's worth it. When dumb bombs are still used as is constantly, while there are plenty of guided bomb options already.

    Taking a cheap dumb bomb and adding an expensive guidance package that might get you a 5m CEP instead of a 9 or 10m CEP with their nav attack system for guiding bomb drops in free flight is not good value for money... most of the time it would make more sense to just use a bigger bomb size if 10m is not good enough.

    How many of those are actually in service vs proposals?

    All of those bombs were mentioned in the Russias Arms catalog of 2004, and there are glide bombs and lots of other new weapons mentioned since then that might not be in service, but most of those are.

    In about 2012 when GLONASS was largely complete and fully functional everywhere they expanded the types of munitions they were buying to about 15 different types I seem to remember... which of course does not include the new stuff like Kh-69 and LMUR.

    It also does not include their range of cluster munitions and cluster munitions dispensors... and of course their new range of mini weapons for light aircraft and drones that have been shown publicly.

    That footage of the grenade like bombs dropped from faired in containers from a drones wings that looked like a 40mm grenade but longer and with plastic tail fins... have never seen that at any arms show, so there will be some we have not seen too.

    Russian drones were using Kornets for months before we saw a couple of Kornet tubes on a Forepost... and videos of their use in Syria were released.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:08 pm

    Oryx
    @oryxspioenkop
    ·
    4h
    New article!

    Tracking The Threat: #Russia’s Izdeliye 305 (LMUR) 🇷🇺

    Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 8 985

    Few Russian weapons systems have managed to impress international audiences during the 2022 Russo-Ukrainian War. Though this is partially the result of decades of hyping up Russian weapons systems to standards they could never live up to by Western think tanks, Russia also failed to timely invest in certain technologies and thus is a latecomer to systems such as unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs) and loitering munitions. Despite having designed a host of guided weapons systems, few were ever acquired by the Russian Air Force in any meaningful numbers, which mostly continues to make use of 1980s-era Kh-25s and Kh-29s and even unguided bombs. Even Russia's most modern precision-guided munitions (PGMs) have been observed to be lacking in accuracy, especially compared to Western PGMs.

    The first departure from this trend came in June 2022, when a new type of PGM was seen striking a small house purportedly housing Ukrainian troops. [1] The air-to-ground missile (ASM) used was quickly identified as the Izdeliye 305 (LMUR), a newly-developed weapon that can strike targets at ranges in excess of 15km. The LMUR can hit targets marked by a helicopter, which can then relocate while the missile seeker continues to track the target until it hits, or it can be launched from farther afield, with the operator using a datalink to guide the missile to its target (which also allows the operator to switch targets during flight). Both operating methods are a great improvement over older-generation Russian helicopter-launched ATGMs/ASMs, for the use of which helicopters generally have to hover in position, making them easy targets.

    The Izdeliye 305 was first readied for series production in November, 2014, though an oversight on the part of the Russian MoD to also order a launcher meant that the project was left in limbo before the contract was terminated in 2017. [2] The LMUR project was saved by the Federal Security Service (FSB), which wanted a long-range ASM for its Mi-8MNP-2 attack helicopters for counterrrorism operations in the Caucasus. The Izdeliye 305 can be launched from the APU-305 single-rail launcher or the two-round APU-L launcher from the FSB's Mi-8MNP-2s and the Russian Air Force's Mi-28 and Ka-52 attack helicopters. A ground-based launcher codenamed Baikal was once also envisaged. [2]
     
    Widespread introduction of the LMUR is likely preempted by its prohibitively large costs. In 2018, one LMUR missile costed $227,000 for the Russian Ministry of Defense, while the price of the missile's export variant would certainly be even higher. [2] In Ukraine, the LMUR has mostly seen use against buildings suspected of hiding Ukrainian equipment and troops, pontoon bridges and Ukrainian vehicles situated near pontoon bridges. Though these can be struck with high precision, the LMUR's 25kg warhead would require a very lucky hit to kill Ukrainian troops in a structure as large as a warehouse. [3] The Russian MoD has also used one LMUR video to provide evidence of the purported destruction of two HIMARS on the second floor of a three-story office building – a rather unconvincing hiding place for the truck-based rocket launchers. [4]

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    MORE ON TARGETS AT

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/11/tracking-threat-russias-izdeliye-305.html

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    Post  lancelot Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:15 pm

    This retarded Western shill Oryx does not seem to know what is a TV guided missile.
    Even the Soviets had the Kh-25MT. TV guided missile. Kh-25MTP had IR guidance.

    It is just that those missiles were typically launched from fighter bomber platforms. Not helicopters like this one.

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    Post  sepheronx Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:26 pm

    Yeah, that article is horrifically stupid.

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    Post  thegopnik Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:00 pm

    Ahhh oryx well trusted source.i take advice from ukrainians because they never lie.

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    Post  Broski Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:50 pm

    Oryx can fire up their NATO-gifted generators and shitpost Russian equipment while sitting in the dark for all I care, you don't manage to kill 100k+ Nazis/Mercs/Conscripts at a 11-1 ratio with shoddy, inaccurate weapons.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:41 am

    This retarded Western shill Oryx does not seem to know what is a TV guided missile.
    Even the Soviets had the Kh-25MT. TV guided missile. Kh-25MTP had IR guidance.

    They were not widely used or produced because their weak payload of between 50kg and 90 kg was not that effective against a range of targets.

    On the other hand the Kh-29T with its 320kg HE warhead was devastating, and of course the Kh-59 and Kh-59M TV guided standoff range missiles (40km and 120km) with a targeting pod allowing the launch aircraft to fire a missile towards a target area and use the video TV footage from the missile itself to find and lock on targets after launch made it very interesting against a wide range of land and sea targets. Its passive TV guidance would make it an ideal anti ship weapon in good weather conditions.

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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:39 pm

    Interesting info:

    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/73532

    Semyon Pogorelsky, head of the Academician A. G. Shipunov Instrument Design Bureau, said that a modification of the Krasnopol corrected high-precision munition has been developed, which can be used by air carriers. We are waiting at the front in commodity quantities.

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    Post  diabetus Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:30 pm

    That sounds like a great idea.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:31 am

    Krasnopol is essentially a warhead and guidance and steering equipment to glide towards the target... dropping it from an aircraft would just eliminate the massive acceleration being blown down the barrel by burning propellent...

    The drone or a drone with it could mark the target so essentially it would be all warhead.
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    Post  diabetus Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:42 pm

    How about adding a small rocket motor for some standoff range
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    Post  Isos Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:56 pm

    That's called a missile and they have already ataka, vikhr, kh-25, lmur...

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