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    China's rumoured long term expansion plan

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    Post  Sujoy Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:25 am

    Right now Afghanistan is not a priority for China. They would rather want Pakistan to deal with Afghanistan.

    On the other hand, the Communist Party of China has prioritized the "6 Must Wars" that it will wage in the Next 50 Years:

    1 Unify Taiwan by 2020-2025
    2 Recover South China Sea Islands by 2025-2030
    3 Recover Southern Tibet from India by 2035-2040
    4 Recover Diaoyu Islands by 2040-2045
    5 Unification of Inner & Outer Mongolia by 2045-2050
    6 Regain Russian Territory in Far East by 2055-2060
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:18 pm

    Sujoy wrote:Right now Afghanistan is not a priority for China. They would rather want Pakistan to deal with Afghanistan.

    On the other hand, the Communist Party of China has prioritized the "6 Must Wars" that it will wage in the Next 50 Years:

    1 Unify Taiwan by 2020-2025
    2 Recover South China Sea Islands by 2025-2030
    3 Recover Southern Tibet from India by 2035-2040
    4 Recover Diaoyu Islands by 2040-2045
    5 Unification of Inner & Outer Mongolia by 2045-2050
    6 Regain Russian Territory in Far East by 2055-2060

    So their plan is financial and societal collapse by 2035-2040 and nuclear extinction of China by 2055-2060?

    Solid plan right there (I doubt it's real but what the hell, right?) thumbsup



    Sujoy wrote:...Basically trying to suggest then can repeat such operations if need be.

    In order to repeat something you need to do it first







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    Post  Sujoy Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:33 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:So their plan is financial and societal collapse by 2035-2040 and nuclear extinction of China by 2055-2060?

    Solid plan right there (I doubt it's real but what the hell, right?) thumbsup
    PLA had released a book in 2013 entitled ‘China Is Not Afraid — New Threats to National Security and Our Strategic Responses’, (中国不怕——国防安全新威胁与我们的战略应对).

    They suggested 6 inevitable wars that China will fight till 2060.

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/chinas-six-wars-in-the-next-50-years/

    Since China is going from strength to strength it is quite possible that they will achieve these objectives within the forecast period. Notice that they have arranged their priorities taking into account the relative strength of their adversaries. So Taiwan comes first and Japan and Russia towards the end.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:41 pm

    Sujoy wrote:...Since China is going from strength to strength it is quite possible that they will achieve these objectives within the forecast period. Notice that they have arranged their priorities taking into account the relative strength of their adversaries. So Taiwan comes first and Japan and Russia towards the end.

    They can go from strength to super strength and arrange whatever they want however they want but unless they develop immunity to nuclear fire and ability to live without food and water they won't be touching Russia, ever

    USA never dared even in the 90s, what chance does China have?


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    RTN
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    Post  RTN Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:09 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:USA never dared even in the 90s, what chance does China have?
    We had no intention too and I'll wager neither had USSR. China did invade a nuclear armed USSR in 1969.

    Already a large Chinese population has flooded the Russian Far East. They might not have to fire a single shot to take over eastern Russia.

    The other timelines are funny given the power differential China can easily take over Taiwan, parts of India, Diaoyu and Outer Mongolia.

    China took over a large part of India and India couldn't do a thing.
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    Post  Mir Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:26 pm

    RTN wrote:
    We had no intention too and I'll wager neither had USSR. China did invade a nuclear armed USSR in 1969.

    I would not call a border dispute/clash an invasion?!

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:41 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    They can go from strength to super strength and arrange whatever they want however they want but unless they develop immunity to nuclear fire and ability to live without food and water they won't be touching Russia, ever

    USA never dared even in the 90s, what chance does China have?



    Invade Russia, get nuked, develop ability to live without food and water thanks to radioactivity and invade Russia again lol1 .
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:10 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Isos wrote:It could be true. Soviet used mainly bombers in their operations that couldn't do much to protect themselves against fighters.

    Pakis are claiming that they shot down Soviet fighter jets. That aside, why would the USSR deploy bombers without supporting them with fighters knowing fully well that Pakistan Air Force is already targeting Soviet bombers.

    PapaDragon wrote:So their plan is financial and societal collapse by 2035-2040 and nuclear extinction of China by 2055-2060?

    Solid plan right there (I doubt it's real but what the hell, right?) thumbsup
    PLA had released a book in 2013 entitled ‘China Is Not Afraid — New Threats to National Security and Our Strategic Responses’, (中国不怕——国防安全新威胁与我们的战略应对).

    They suggested 6 inevitable wars that China will fight till 2060.

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/chinas-six-wars-in-the-next-50-years/

    Since China is going from strength to strength it is quite possible that they will achieve these objectives within the forecast period. Notice that they have arranged their priorities taking into account the relative strength of their adversaries. So Taiwan comes first and Japan and Russia towards the end.



    I'll ask this, is this an official document? If so, then Russians are fully aware. But I find it interesting it's at a .au (Australian) site. So chances of it being BS is very large.

    And no, China would get nuked if they try to take Siberia. They would lose far more than they could ever gain. Their "advancements" are mostly in show or economics.

    I think you are spreading fud. But you normally do that

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:14 pm


    This rumours about China long term expansion plan , I do not believe it . Basically all borders between nuclear armed states are fixed . China , Russia , India , Pakistan etc . Even non-nuke armed states such as Japan or Iran more or less safe , since Japan warned N.Korea of Nuke development , in case of further escalation . Similarly no border dispute between Russia or Japan over Islands or border dispute between Pakistan or Iran . Israel border also fixed .These borders are nuclear fixed .

    Some positive news about Tajik pushing pashtuns out of panjshir.......


    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/178472/Panjshir-Front-retakes-three-areas-from-Taliban


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    Post  Sujoy Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:41 pm

    nomadski wrote:
    This rumours about China long term expansion plan , I do not believe it . Basically all borders between nuclear armed states are fixed . China , Russia , India , Pakistan etc . Even non-nuke  armed states such as Japan or Iran more or less safe , since Japan warned N.Korea of Nuke development , in case of further escalation . Similarly no border dispute between Russia or Japan over Islands or border dispute between Pakistan or Iran . Israel border also fixed .These borders are nuclear fixed .
    With the exception of Russia and India the other countries with which China has a border dispute do not have nuclear weapons. China OTOH as articulated by their own media plans to increase their nuclear stockpile drastically. So they can easily lauch a a decapitation strike against both India & Japan.  Furthermore, China has tied down these countries with local failed states like Pakistan & North Korea.

    Already China has taken over large tracts of land in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan and is now targetting Bhutan.

    They first send millions of Chinese to these countries as labour. Later they claim that Chinese labours are indigenous people of those areas. That's how they take over their land. I suspect the Chinese will do the same in Afghanistan as well by settling Chinese in the Wakhan corridor over a period of time and eventually taking it over.

    Even if you have thousands of nuclear weapons you cannot stop such Chinese aggression.

    nomadski wrote:Some positive news about Tajik pushing pashtuns out of panjshir.......

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/178472/Panjshir-Front-retakes-three-areas-from-Taliban
    If true, this is good news.

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    Post  Hole Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:09 pm

    RTN wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:USA never dared even in the 90s, what chance does China have?
    We had no intention too and I'll wager neither had USSR. China did invade a nuclear armed USSR in 1969.

    Already a large Chinese population has flooded the Russian Far East. They might not have to fire a single shot to take over eastern Russia.

    The other timelines are funny given the power differential China can easily take over Taiwan, parts of India, Diaoyu and Outer Mongolia.

    China took over a large part of India and India couldn't do a thing.

    Well these chinese that flooded Siberia must be really small. Or invisible. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:37 pm

    RTN wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:USA never dared even in the 90s, what chance does China have?
    We had no intention too and I'll wager neither had USSR. ...

    Correct, neither of you did and there's a reason for that (several thousand reasons, both fission and fusion ones)



    RTN wrote:...China did invade a nuclear armed USSR in 1969....

    And immediately ran under Uncle Sam's skirt who had to send Forest Gump to save their asses



    RTN wrote:...Already a large Chinese population has flooded the Russian Far East. ...

    Only thing large Chinese population is flooding is Chinese Pacific coast where 80% of them are crammed together

    You don't even need nukes to exterminate China anymore, several missiles into critical infrastructure is enough, after that you just let famine, dehydration, disease and societal collapse do the work for you

    Chinese know this and so do Americans, why do you think Chinese are hell bent on building the Navy and Americans developed sudden intermediate range missile boner?



    RTN wrote:...They might not have to fire a single shot to take over eastern Russia...

    This meme is getting old, there's more Koreans in East Russia than Chinese

    Check the map to see which countries have border with China and how big





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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:45 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    RTN wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:USA never dared even in the 90s, what chance does China have?
    We had no intention too and I'll wager neither had USSR. ...

    Correct, neither of you did and there's a reason for that (several thousand reasons, both fission and fusion ones)



    RTN wrote:...China did invade a nuclear armed USSR in 1969....

    And immediately ran under Uncle Sam's skirt who had to send Forest Gump to save their asses



    RTN wrote:...Already a large Chinese population has flooded the Russian Far East. ...

    Only thing large Chinese population is flooding is Chinese Pacific coast where 80% of them are crammed together

    You don't even need nukes to exterminate China anymore, several missiles into critical infrastructure is enough, after that you just let famine, dehydration, disease and societal collapse do the work for you

    Chinese know this and so do Americans, why do you think Chinese are hell bent on building the Navy and Americans developed sudden intermediate range missile boner?



    RTN wrote:...They might not have to fire a single shot to take over eastern Russia...

    This meme is getting old, there's more Koreans in East Russia than Chinese

    Check the map to see which countries have border with China and how big






    There are more chinese.people in Moscow than in all of Siberia region.

    I'm still unsure where this meme came from. There are barely any Chinese in eastern Russia.

    Actually, you are replying to rtn, I believe I have already proved this morning wrong on more than one occasion on this very comment. So he is just repeating nonsense.

    This here is people who can't distinguish Koreans from Chinese. All slant eyed people must be Chinese.... So they assume it's Chinese flocking into Russia. What little does such morons don't know, is Russia has strict immigration laws. They don't have open border with China. They have open trade and at border visas. But not open border. They still have fences, walls and soldiers at the borders.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:06 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:This meme is getting old, there's more Koreans in East Russia than Chinese

    Check the map to see which countries have border with China and how big

    There are more chinese.people in Moscow than in all of Siberia region.

    I'm still unsure where this meme came from. There are barely any Chinese in eastern Russia....

    It came from Eastern Europe as a coping mechanism and later adopted by Euros and Americans as a futile hope of Chinese solving their Russian (and Chinese) problems for them



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    Post  ALAMO Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:46 am

    I still wonder what drives the people who seriously consider such bizarre and unlogic scenarios dunno
    Let's consider that there is a secret plan of waste Chinese territorial expansion for a moment.
    Who should be afraid of that?
    A nuclear-armed India?
    Undisputable nuclear superpower Russia?
    Occupied Japan, with it's Murican contingent?
    Nuclear armed North Korea?
    And occupied South Korea?
    Mongolia, a country practically administrated by Russia or any other CTSO member?
    Really?!?

    Does it make any sense to you? scratch

    There are tons of other territories, who can be considered, but why we do not hear about them much?
    Well, because most of these idiocies came up directly from Hindu arses.
    I saw articles in the Hindu press comparing Jin Ping to Hitler already.
    As both Hindu and Chinese give a shit about Hitler himself and hardly feel any outrage toward him - the target of this narrative is obvious.

    China is a huge country, with most of its interior actually depopulated.
    They have no need for any territorial expansion, including the run for resources. They own half of Africa already, and there are tons of Chinese in Africa.
    Not a single shot was needed.
    Why we don't hear much bullshit from there?
    well, again, maybe because it makes no gain for Hindu narration? scratch

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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:05 pm

    Having a list of countries to invade with a schedule sounds rather more like the US than the Chinese.

    The Chinese probably have a few conflicts they might see as needing attention and certain periods of time when those conflicts could best be sorted out by whatever means.

    BTW Sujoy, China is currently expanding its nuclear weapons capacity because the US has withdrawn from the INF treaty for the specific purpose of positioning enormous numbers of ballistic and cruise based IR missiles... IRBM and IRCM in the pacific area around China for the express purpose of applying pressure on China and try to restrict her growth.

    Obviously the immediate reaction from China is going to be to reciprocate and produce not just IRBMs and IRCMs to counter them, but also MRBM and ICBMs to directly target the US in response.

    Trump wanted to be able to add Chinas nuclear weapons with Russias nuclear weapons so the US could justify having more, but that was never going to work because China would want as many nukes as the US in that case which means they are going to be making new warheads for quite some time to come... a real threat to India who likely could not afford such an arms race, as well as Japan and South Korea who might decide they need their own nukes... wonder how Australia will feel about Japanese Nukes... and lots of other countries in the region will be rather upset by such a development too... including China and Russia...

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:24 pm

    What China really needs to develop rapidly, is its strategic awareness system they are lacking in practice at the moment.
    They are very vulnerable to decapitation type of attack, with a lot of enemy nuclear forces located very close to its strategic locations and decision-making centers.
    And this is what they are doing, with huge Russian assistance. We could say, that Russkies are building their strategic EW system.
    Not a bad example for the depth of strategic cooperation.
    If I were India, instead of producing Bollywood-style drama about how Jin Ping is a new Hitler, and how nasty they will behave in the next 50 years, I would rather sit at the table, resolve the issues, sign a permanent boarder agreement, and lived on.
    Because you can't build an anti-China deterrence other than political bullshit widespread in the media. It won't work for long.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    BTW Sujoy, China is currently expanding its nuclear weapons capacity because the US has withdrawn from the INF treaty for the specific purpose of positioning enormous numbers of ballistic and cruise based IR missiles... IRBM and IRCM in the pacific area around China for the express purpose of applying pressure on China and try to restrict her growth.

    Somehow I don't see it. Hundreds of US IRBMs and IRCMs near China. First, let them take care of their strategic arsenal at CONUS and replace the old Minuteman III. China is strengthening its AD so the US IRCM based on a weak Tomahowk is not a big threat to China. The US is barely building AEGIS bases in Europe. They did not place the IRBM on the border with Russia.

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    Post  Mir Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:55 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    Somehow I don't see it.  Hundreds of US IRBMs and IRCMs near China.  First, let them take care of their strategic arsenal at CONUS and replace the old Minuteman III.  China is strengthening its AD so the US IRCM based on a weak Tomahowk is not a big threat to China.  The US is barely building AEGIS bases in Europe.  They did not place the IRBM on the border with Russia.


    I believe the US can't afford to replace the Minuteman III's. I saw some ginormous figures somewhere that even the US can't afford!
    Shortly after tearing up the INF treaty the US tested a Tomahawk from one of the "AEGIS" basis as well, basically admitting that they lied about the capability.
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    Post  RTN Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:You don't even need nukes to exterminate China anymore, several missiles into critical infrastructure is enough, after that you just let famine, dehydration, disease and societal collapse do the work for you
    China can do exactly the same thing to Japan and India if not Russia. With an economy larger than all these 3 countries they can easily afford it.

    ALAMO wrote:China is a huge country, with most of its interior actually depopulated.
    They have no need for any territorial expansion, including the run for resources.
    China became huge through forceful occupation. It was not even among the top 10 countries by area after WW-II but invaded Western parts and Tibet citing bogus Hun history to occupy those areas.

    China continues to demand more areas from Japan, Philippines, Vietnam and India.

    ALAMO wrote:They own half of Africa already, and there are tons of Chinese in Africa.
    Not a single shot was needed.
    That's correct. And how did China end up owning half of Africa without "a single shot was needed"? Through deceit. That's what China is doing across Asia.

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Actually, you are replying to rtn, I believe I have already proved this morning wrong on more than one occasion on this very comment. So he is just repeating nonsense.

    This here is people who can't distinguish Koreans from Chinese. All slant eyed people must be Chinese....
    Honorary Russians must be cross eyed then.


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:59 pm

    It is obvious they lied, just from the beginning.
    Armed UAV is a pure example of INF violation, but no one cared about that.
    It is nothing else as a multiple-use armed cruise missile with separable warheads.
    Remind you the situation along Pershing 2, when USSR destroyed all the missiles treaty covered, while US dismantled them, keeping the warhead section with targeting system at storage.

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    Post  Mir Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:18 pm

    RTN wrote:
    China became huge through forceful occupation. It was not even among the top 10 countries by area after WW-II but invaded Western parts and Tibet citing bogus Hun history to occupy those areas.

    I believe that throughout much of the late 19th Century and early to mid 20th Century China was forcefully occupied by foreign forces?
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    Post  RTN Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:14 pm

    Mir wrote:I believe that throughout much of the late 19th Century and early to mid 20th Century China was forcefully occupied by foreign forces?  
    Must be the foreign forces like Tibetian, Uyghurs whose land is now forcefully occupied by China, illegally.
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    Post  Sujoy Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:BTW Sujoy, China is currently expanding its nuclear weapons capacity because the US has withdrawn from the INF treaty for the specific purpose of positioning enormous numbers of ballistic and cruise based IR missiles... IRBM and IRCM in the pacific area around China for the express purpose of applying pressure on China and try to restrict her growth.
    US withdrawal from the INF Treaty and subsequent deployment of nuclear missiles in the West Pacific will impose zero impact on China’s nuclear deterrence. Hypersonic boost-glide missiles being developed by the US Army, because the boost-glide missiles — with a different trajectory from ballistic and cruise missiles — were never subjected to the INF Treaty anyways.

    Chinese IRBM and IRCMs are directed towards Asian countries like India and to a limited extent Japan but they pose no threat to the US or Europe.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:48 pm

    ALAMO wrote:...Well, because most of these idiocies came up directly from Hindu arses.
    I saw articles in the Hindu press comparing Jin Ping to Hitler already....

    India needs to get off it's ass and start sorting out their shit for themselves instead of talking shit

    They are like that kid who knows that exam is coming up but instead of studying he spends his days loitering in front of the supermarket bumming for cigarettes and beer



    Mir wrote:...I believe the US can't afford to replace the Minuteman III's. I saw some ginormous figures somewhere that even the US can't afford!...

    They could do it no problem if they took the project seriously and responsibly but with current procurement and spending habits it's a financial black hole



    RTN wrote:...China can do exactly the same thing to Japan and India if not Russia. With an economy larger than all these 3 countries they can easily afford it....

    That sucks for India and Japan but it's hardly Russian problem, they got their stuff locked down tight



    RTN wrote:Must be the foreign forces like Tibetian, Uyghurs whose land is now forcefully occupied by China, illegally....

    I can give you Tibet (conditionally) even it was ages ago, same things have been happening all over the world since and it was rubber stamped by USA at least half a century ago anyway (no backsies)

    But Uyghur lands have been Chinese real estate since forever


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