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    Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752

    crod
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    Post  crod Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:11 am

    Anything untoward in that airliner that went down enroute to the Ukraine?
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:58 am

    crod wrote:Anything untoward in that airliner that went down enroute to the Ukraine?
    Doubt they will release a passenger list. From the nationalities it looks like a lot of people getting out before the balloon went up. I wouldn't fly on a Ukrainian aircraft and the Ukrainians are saying that they suspect engine failure. The 11 Ukrainians include 9 crew.

    From Isos post in other thread


    BNO News
    @BNONews
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: Plane which crashed near Tehran was carrying 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainians, 10 Swedes, 4 Afghanis, 3 Germans, and 3 Britons - official
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    Post  crod Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:11 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    crod wrote:Anything untoward in that airliner that went down enroute to the Ukraine?
    Doubt they will release a passenger list. From the nationalities it looks like a lot of people getting out before the balloon went up. I wouldn't fly on a Ukrainian aircraft and the Ukrainians are saying that they suspect engine failure. The 11 Ukrainians include 9 crew.

    From Isos post in other thread


    BNO News
    @BNONews
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: Plane which crashed near Tehran was carrying 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainians, 10 Swedes, 4 Afghanis, 3 Germans, and 3 Britons - official

    Media reports say authorities are looking at possible accidental engagement by an Iranian Tor missile. Very unfortunate if accurate.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 pm


    Media reports say authorities are looking at possible accidental engagement by an Iranian Tor missile. Very unfortunate if accurate.

    All that comes from a picture of the head of a tor missile head taken by a anonymous guy. The picture shows only that and not the location.

    There is also a video of what seems to be a missile hiting something in the air but it's dark and we see nothing.

    Some are skeptical that the guy managed to film at the right direction and right time and film that whike the guy who took the picture didn't make a wider abgke to see the location.

    As far as we know it's nothing reliable. Could even be set up by CIA.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:54 pm

    The B-737-800 also had its share of problems:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_737#737_Next_Generation_(-600/-700/-800/-900)_aircraft

    Update:
    https://ria.ru/20200109/1563203623.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:53 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Media reports say authorities are looking at possible accidental engagement by an Iranian Tor missile. Very unfortunate if accurate.

    All that comes from a picture of the head of a tor missile head taken by a anonymous guy. The picture shows only that and not the location.

    There is also a video of what seems to be a missile hiting something in the air but it's dark and we see nothing.

    Some are skeptical that the guy managed to film at the right direction and right time and film that whike the guy who took the picture didn't make a wider abgke to see the location.

    As far as we know it's nothing reliable. Could even be set up by CIA.

    Would a Tor missile motor be running on its way up and leave a flame trail? The video seems to show little exhaust so a MANPAD?
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    Post  Airbornewolf Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:46 pm

    This whole airliner crash made me remember Qantas flight 32.

    This A380 had some simmilarities.

    1. a few minutes after take-off they lost control of one of their engines. it had oil leak causing the engine rev up uncontrollably untill it catastrophically exploded.
    2. Resulting Shrapnell tore trough the cabin, it also tore trough a lot of flight control cables. Among other's, all communication systems went down. including GPS positioning and radio's. they only had one very basic VHF radio that remained.
    3. The blowout compromised heavily the flight control systems, in Qantas 32 case. They lost among flaps also one hydraulic system and other engine's control systems where damaged too, resulting in loss in thrust in the remaining engines. Also the wing got perforated by the explosion and subsequent shrapnell resulting in fuel in the wing igniting. this later extinguised itself while the crew turned into an holding pattern while they where diagnosing the aircraft.
    4. Even the Qantas crew did not realise what happened except for the loud bang they heard. and where working the flood of error messages in the flight computer. They learned of what happened with the engine when one of the flight attendants came up and told them the engine had desintegrated and tore trough the wing and cabin. The flight computer came up with critical messages faster as the 5 man pilot crew could work through.
    5. Qantas HQ just got a burst of information of Flight 32's before it stopped completely. Reporting multiple system failures. Its simmilar as the adrupt failure of communications with the iran airliner.
    6. The iranians mentioned the aircraft reported "technical problems". With Qantas Flight 32, before Engine 2 tore itself appart and send shrapnell trough the wing and cabin the instruments kept warning the engine was overheating.

    So, i take this "iran shot down an airliner" with an very big grain of salt. as it has simmilarities with QF fight 32.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:41 am

    Update: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:20 am

    Would a Tor missile motor be running on its way up and leave a flame trail? The video seems to show little exhaust so a MANPAD?

    The TOR system has excellent 3D radars and EO systems so I rather doubt they would launch at an obviously civilian airliner that was just taking off... plus being a command guided missile it would have hit the body of the aircraft and not an engine.

    Tor isn't that much bigger than a manpad.

    I don't disagree... from an unknown distance it would be hard to tell it apart from a MANPADS.... but a TOR missile is about 3 metres long and 180kgs in weight with a 15kg warhead you could definitely not fire from your shoulder...

    Update

    Sorry Tsavo... but the NYT are not interested in the truth... most of the time such things get in the way of a good story...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:34 am


    I don't disagree... from an unknown distance it would be hard to tell it apart from a MANPADS.... but a TOR missile is about 3 metres long and 180kgs in weight with a 15kg warhead you could definitely not fire from your shoulder...

    Idk if you saw the video but it could even be a s 300 missile you couldn't say. It's all black a then you see a little explosion.

    But twitter specialist and new york times journalists/sppexialists said it was real and they could even see the frags of the tor missile hiting the aircraft. dunno Dickheads that are programed to poop US propagabda before US official propagandists themeself...
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:29 am

    Wow.... amazing... a missile flys up in to the night sky and hits something... amazing... but then I would also have to say that if that was the Ukrainian airliner... where were its running lights... even on the darkest night even before I can hear a civilian airliner I can see its flashing lights... don't see them on that video... do you?

    I am sure they will edit some in later right?
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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:12 pm

    Here is the moment in the video you see the explosion. You can clearly see nothing the Tor missile hiting the boeing.


    Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 En6whw10
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:21 pm

    A downed plane: who is trying to prevent Trump and Ayatollah from negotiating? https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2826100.html

    https://riafan.ru/1240859-klincevich-nazval-ubeditelnoi-versiyu-prichastnosti-ssha-k-gibeli-ukrainskogo-boinga

    Before making any assumptions, it's better to wait for more info. on it. But 1 thing is clear: this crash ils already being used to blame Iran.
    In any case, Boeing may not recover from this latest blow to its reputation.

    The Iranian regime supported thousands of Fatemiyoun, an Afghan Shiite minority militia from whom an estimated 20,000 hardened fighters joined with Assad’s forces in Syria. Iran could also use Fatemiyoun in Afghanistan itself to give American forces a bloody nose and strike their bases, though certainly innocent Afghans would also die as a result of bombing and clashes. Plus Iran has close ties with the Taliban.
    https://www.asiatimes.com/2020/01/opinion/implications-of-soleimani-killing-on-afghan-security/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:10 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add links, text)
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:40 am

    Here is the moment in the video you see the explosion. You can clearly see nothing the Tor missile hiting the boeing.

    You can clearly see that there is a missile and presumably an aircraft being hit by that missile, but no evidence of when or where the video was taken, and the total lack of navigation lights prove it is not a civilian airliner being hit by a missile.

    This could be video from a month ago showing a US drone being shot down... and the guy who filmed it uploading it now to pretend he was filming in the right direction at exactly the right time.

    Note the other video released shows a fiery plane crashing to the ground through some trees... they were filming something else and he noticed the fire in the sky and caught it, but this video... perhaps he is a CIA stooge and was told the stinger team had spotted an aircraft to shoot down so film in this general direction and look for a missile because you wont see the plane because we have ordered them not to operate with running lights...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:38 am

    Update: Iran admitted shooting it down by mistake
    https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/1215847283381755914

    https://ria.ru/20200111/1563279027.html

    That plane was mistaken for a UAV or CM as it was flying over a mil. base.

    Merkel flies to Moscow for help. Urgent help
    https://ria.ru/20200111/1563261125.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link, text)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:19 am

    Iran should not be handing over the black box to Ukraine. But then again some in Iran may want the public to forget this incident. Because it may mean further worsening of relations with the west. As some political elements in Iran recently contacted the BBC staff, saying that they should be talking about this incident, so as to Camouflage the assassination of Iranian General. Now even the Camouflage is being camouflaged. And humanitarian releases of spy justified to appease the killers of General, as inducements to talks!

    https://youtu.be/w03adUa3Kto

    Iranian police chief needs to seriously think about modern policing methods. Police and security force tactics are now a bigger problem than the problem they are supposed to be addressing. It looks like, someone gave a weapon to someone else, and they are trigger happy. Shooting all in view. The result is dead demonstrators and dead Afghans on the Roads. Modern policing methods are lacking.

    You can stop a vehicle, without shooting at it by an assault rifle. Then you arrest people. They go to court. You disable an arsonist and arrest him. Then he goes to court. The police actions and those backing this approach are diminishing public confidence in the political system. Iran loosing face internationally. Iran now taking a step backwards with bringing in draconian anti - democratic " political crimes" law. Instead of bringing political freedom laws. There can be no political crimes. Only civil crimes. Punished under civil law.

    https://youtu.be/h5ScK0OaTsk

    And :

    https://youtu.be/gNmv4tErXys

    CF :

    https://youtu.be/jP_wDf3xT5Q

    https://youtu.be/i14AOFygNyg

    And then the authorities can not justify or explain the deaths of demonstrators. Brand new pistols are presented. Supposedly from demonstrators. With zero or near zero fatality among security services. And supposedly 5000 security forces injured, indicating civil unrest but no shooting on security services . But with supposedly 230 demonstrators shot dead. But how many disabled ?  400 to 800?  And they say 20% of bullets causing deaths to demonstrators are from weapon other than security forces. But were any private shooters arrested? If not, why not? They just dig themselves deeper, by unsatisfactory answers. Loosing public confidence. Because of inept policing and draconian political laws. Their own worst enemy.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:06 pm

    I believe the compensation amount from the US to Iran was about 6 million dollars when America shot down an Airbus in the region, so perhaps Iran owes the victims 6 million and one dollars... but they can't pay in US dollars because they are under sanction so they will have to wait until that is lifted before they can be paid...
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    Post  Isos Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:50 pm

    Iran should not be handing over the black box to Ukraine. But then again some in Iran may want the public to forget this incident.

    They already acknowledged that they shot it down with a tor system. There is no need for the blackboxes anymore.

    I believe the compensation amount from the US to Iran was about 6 million dollars when America shot down an Airbus in the region, so perhaps Iran owes the victims 6 million and one dollars... but they can't pay in US dollars because they are under sanction so they will have to wait until that is lifted before they can be paid...

    Money can't replace deads... that's kindda disgusting to give families so much for killing one of their. Typically US way to solve problems.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:35 am


    Money can't replace deads... that's kindda disgusting to give families so much for killing one of their. Typically US way to solve problems.

    Made worse because American dead get paid more than foreign dead...
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    Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 Empty Ukraine now says it believes Iran intentionally shot down Flight 752

    Post  Backman Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:46 am


    A senior Ukrainian security official says he believes Iran intentionally shot down an airliner full of passengers early last year, possibly with the intent of ending a cycle of military escalation with the United States.

    All 167 passengers and nine crew, including 55 Canadian citizens, 30 permanent residents and 53 others who were travelling to Canada via Kyiv, were killed when Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 was shot out of the sky on Jan. 8, 2020.

    Oleksiy Danilov, who as secretary of the National Defence and Security Council oversaw the early stages of Ukraine’s own investigation into the disaster, said Iran’s refusal to allow international investigators unfettered access to the evidence has convinced him that Iran shot the plane down on purpose.

    Full article :https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-ukraine-now-says-it-believes-iran-intentionally-shot-down-flight-752/

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:50 am

    I have an unpopular opinion on this one. On another forum, I said this.

    Somebody pointed at , and shot an airliner flying out of an international airport. For now , I just, can't , accept , the narrative. How , in , the f*ck, could someone , accidentally point , and shoot , at an airliner , from an intl airport !

    Maybe Iran did do it. On purpose. A 5th column in the IRGC that Iran is covering up or doesnt fully understand yet. Maybe the occupants of the plane were spies from the west.

    It just doesnt make any sense. NATO and Serbia went at it with these systems for 70 days without an incident like this.

    Look here. 10 aircraft followed the same path out of an intl airport in the same 8 hours and 1 got shot down.

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    Post  Backman Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:10 am

    This video is the money shot.

    There is a 25-30 second gap between the first missile and the second missile. If this was accidental, why is there such a big of a gap between shots ? The aircraft almost looks like it is surviving the first hit. And then comes the second shot.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:16 am

    The real question is why was Zelensky visiting the nation of Oman when this incident happened?

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    Post  nomadski Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:10 am

    This incident, like many others recently, being the work of Zionist and Yanks, heve been covered up by Iranian elements. There are apparently many attack incidents in Iran, that are not reported on.  The enemy feeling emboldened by this secrecy and lack of appropriate response by Iran, now carries out attacks openly. Claims responsibility. At least this stops the officials in Iran from telling lies to the people.

    Iranian people now know that  the entire political establishment is corrupted and compromised. That the country is under attack. And that the political system will not protect them. The defeatist pro-western elements are being identified. The wealthy and well connected reactionary Bazzar and Land Lords and wealthy factory owners and their bastard children. Iranian people will now have the job of changing the politics in Iran. Removing these elements from power. At the same time as establishing a Democratic system of government. If they can ! Only then can Iran defend itself against internal and external elements. Whoever they are, irrespective of length of Beard or rank. Or the stupid prayer mark on their head......or their expensive suit.

    https://youtu.be/9fVF-FAaZDM


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    Post  Backman Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:11 am

    nomadski wrote:This incident, like many others recently, being the work of Zionist and Yanks, heve been covered up by Iranian elements. There are apparently many attack incidents in Iran, that are not reported on.  The enemy feeling emboldened by this secrecy and lack of appropriate response by Iran, now carries out attacks openly. Claims responsibility. At least this stops the officials in Iran from telling lies to the people.

    Iranian people now know that  the entire political establishment is corrupted and compromised. That the country is under attack. And that the political system will not protect them. The defeatist pro-western elements are being identified. The wealthy and well connected reactionary Bazzar and Land Lords and wealthy factory owners and their bastard children. Iranian people will now have the job of changing the politics in Iran. Removing these elements from power. At the same time as establishing a Democratic system of government. If they can ! Only then can Iran defend itself against internal and external elements. Whoever they are, irrespective of length of Beard or rank. Or the stupid prayer mark on their head......or their expensive suit.

    https://youtu.be/9fVF-FAaZDM



    Yeah it sure sounds like it. This part of the article basically says what you are saying

    Mr. Danilov said he had not shared his theory with Canadian authorities – but said he had directly challenged his Iranian counterpart while on an official visit to Tehran shortly after the disaster. He said his counterpart only assured him that his own political faction wasn’t involved in what had happened to Flight 752.
    While Mr. Danilov was in Tehran last February, he met with Ali Shamkhani, the secretary of Iran’s Supreme National Security Council. Mr. Shamkhani is seen as a relative moderate within his country’s theocratic-military regime.


    “When I was in Tehran, talking to my counterpart, I asked him directly, ‘Why did you do this?’ He gave me a very honest reply – that they were not interested in shooting down this plane, but that Iran was a country where different groups of influence exist. There are at least three different military groups under three different commands, including the Revolutionary Guards, but not only them

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