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Iraq refused to buy American attack helicopters AH-64E Apache
Iraq refused to buy American attack helicopters AH-64E Apache
+14
George1
OminousSpudd
starman
par far
sheytanelkebir
calm
PapaDragon
KiloGolf
GarryB
higurashihougi
Werewolf
TR1
Mike E
Viktor
18 posters
US Foreign Military Sales
Viktor- Posts : 5814
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Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 42
Location : Croatia
Mike E- Posts : 2640
Points : 2676
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Instead they've been buying Russian ones...Viktor wrote:Nice
Iraq refused to buy American attack helicopters AH-64E Apache
Better yet, they are buying Russian helicopters with American money!- Why is this thread called "reducing the number of carriers" when it contains mostly negative US MIC news? Maybe it could be renamed the "U.S. MIC Issues" thread or something closer to that...
TR1- Posts : 5536
Points : 5542
Join date : 2011-12-06
Why American money?
They have huge oil revenues, and that is what they find their purchases with.
They have huge oil revenues, and that is what they find their purchases with.
Werewolf- Posts : 5814
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Join date : 2012-10-24
Mike E wrote:Instead they've been buying Russian ones...Viktor wrote:Nice
Iraq refused to buy American attack helicopters AH-64E Apache
- Why is this thread called "reducing the number of carriers" when it contains mostly negative US MIC news? Maybe it could be renamed the "U.S. MIC Issues" thread or something closer to that...
They obviously rejected it since depending on US military hardware puts them in a very bad situation as soon the US stops selling spare parts it means death to the hardware like Iranians F-14 which are not only obsolete but also in no good shape due the political games US is playing.
Mike E- Posts : 2640
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Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Ever hear of foreign aid? The US gives them quite a bit of it... That being said, they do acquire wealth in many different ways.TR1 wrote:Why American money?
They have huge oil revenues, and that is what they find their purchases with.
That too... The added pressure of "having to do what they say" isn't exactly beneficial for a country like Iraq.Werewolf wrote:They obviously rejected it since depending on US military hardware puts them in a very bad situation as soon the US stops selling spare parts it means death to the hardware like Iranians F-14 which are not only obsolete but also in no good shape due the political games US is playing.
TR1- Posts : 5536
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Join date : 2011-12-06
So you got proof that American foreighn aid is being used to fund the Russian arms purchases?
Proof?
Proof?
Mike E- Posts : 2640
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Location : Bay Area, CA
Really TR1? That money goes to the Iraqi government, who in turn spends a whopping 8% of their GDP on weapons... There is a large chance, that large amounts of that aid ends off getting used for the purchase of Russian equipment... Coming from the person that believes a crappy one megapixel picture is proof that a -82 is on Ukraine, you should have no trouble believing this...TR1 wrote:So you got proof that American foreighn aid is being used to fund the Russian arms purchases?
Proof?
higurashihougi- Posts : 2711
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Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.
Not a huge surprise for me. Not long ago, the U.S. goverment insisted on buying Russian Mil transporter for equipping Afghanistan troops, disregard of the sanction and the pressure from anti-Russia shits in the Congress.
One reason is that Iraq and Afganistan have gotten used to the Soviet/Russia weapon system and it is more convenient for them to continuing the Russian lines. Another reason is that the tasks given (against the rebels) do not need high-tech and expensive devices, but easy-to-use, durable, and cost-effective machines which Russia is very good at.
But the most important factor is that, all this events testify the usefulness, capability and effectiveness of Russian weapons.
Of course the anti-Russia faction is still trying to say this and that about Russian weapons in Iraq... but, fact is fact.
One reason is that Iraq and Afganistan have gotten used to the Soviet/Russia weapon system and it is more convenient for them to continuing the Russian lines. Another reason is that the tasks given (against the rebels) do not need high-tech and expensive devices, but easy-to-use, durable, and cost-effective machines which Russia is very good at.
But the most important factor is that, all this events testify the usefulness, capability and effectiveness of Russian weapons.
Of course the anti-Russia faction is still trying to say this and that about Russian weapons in Iraq... but, fact is fact.
TR1- Posts : 5536
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Join date : 2011-12-06
Mike E wrote:Really TR1? That money goes to the Iraqi government, who in turn spends a whopping 8% of their GDP on weapons... There is a large chance, that large amounts of that aid ends off getting used for the purchase of Russian equipment... Coming from the person that believes a crappy one megapixel picture is proof that a -82 is on Ukraine, you should have no trouble believing this...TR1 wrote:So you got proof that American foreighn aid is being used to fund the Russian arms purchases?
Proof?
Or maybe the US is not a bunch of morons, and have oversight and stipulation on how the money is spent.
So far I see no proof it is American money being used to purchase Russian arms. I am not buying the assumption.
GarryB- Posts : 36377
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Against an imaginary target but still ...
Pentagon: a new test of the interceptor missile defense system the United States is successful
Wow, that is amazing... did you know that 95% of tests against imaginary targets fail?
33% of the time they succeed and 75% of the time the results just don't add up..
- Why is this thread called "reducing the number of carriers" when it contains mostly negative US MIC news? Maybe it could be renamed the "U.S. MIC Issues" thread or something closer to that...
Good call, will change that now.
Regarding the rest of the discussion can I say I actually supported India going for the AH-64 as it was a more mature system with operational experience.
Can I say now that this purchase and others including potentially to Egypt and Algeria and now Iraq... perhaps even Syria seems to bode well for the aircraft and its future potential development and upgrade path.
Would like to see them buying some Su-25SMs as well.
GarryB- Posts : 36377
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In addition to the title change I had a wee think about where it fits best... US MIC so it is US and military/defence/strategic related so I have put it here...
Mike E- Posts : 2640
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Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
TR1 wrote:Mike E wrote:Really TR1? That money goes to the Iraqi government, who in turn spends a whopping 8% of their GDP on weapons... There is a large chance, that large amounts of that aid ends off getting used for the purchase of Russian equipment... Coming from the person that believes a crappy one megapixel picture is proof that a -82 is on Ukraine, you should have no trouble believing this...TR1 wrote:So you got proof that American foreighn aid is being used to fund the Russian arms purchases?
Proof?
Or maybe the US is not a bunch of morons, and have oversight and stipulation on how the money is spent.
So far I see no proof it is American money being used to purchase Russian arms. I am not buying the assumption.
Who is the one that lives in the US again? Our politicians and executives within the MIC are professionals at wasting money, and they do it mostly for their own benefit... (They are a bunch of morons, and don't have oversight and stipulation on how money is spent... - Not messing with you, it is the truth!)
So far I see no evidence suggesting otherwise... Like I said, the US gives aid to the Iraqi government, who spends it on a bunch of things (like every other government) including weapons... That money, if even a minuscule amount, has probably payed or helped payed for Russian weapons. - It wouldn't be a surprised for me and (probably) many others.
- Thanks GarryB, that is much better!
George1- Posts : 17991
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Some conclusions:
Egypt will receive 1,31bn $ military aid according to US proposed federal budget. It seems that last 2-3 years USA has resumed its aid to Egypt in Mubarak-era level. Of course whatever are their differences with Sisi they aren't willing to lose Egypt totally.
Israel first place of course.
Jordan is in 3rd place, mainly i believe because it is neighboring Syria and Iraq and the war there. They also receive considerable economic aid. Maybe USA afraid they are in danger of destabilization?
Next are Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Colombia which still is the best ally of USA in Latin America.
Most economic aid goes to Pakistan and Afghanistan in Asia and in african countries
KiloGolf- Posts : 2495
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State Dept. approves sale of 72 F-15 fighters to Qatar
By Ryan Maass | Nov. 18, 2016 at 1:03 PM
WASHINGTON, Nov. 18 (UPI) -- The U.S. State Department has approved a proposed $21.1 billion foreign military sale to the government of Qatar for 72 F-15QA aircraft.
In addition to the multirole fighters, Qatar will also receive associated weapon packages, ground support, training materials and maintenance equipment. In a statement released by the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation agency, government officials say the sale is intended to bolster foreign policy interests.
The proposed sale is intended to improve Qatar's ability to meet air-to-air and air-to-ground enemy threats and improve homeland defense capabilities. The U.S. State Department's approval comes just weeks after the British government released a statement upgrading Qatar's terrorism threat from "underlying" to "general". U.S. officials say the sale will not affect the basic military balance in the Middle East.
Aerospace giant Boeing has been listed as the prime contractor for the sale, with additional support from Elbit Systems, BAE Systems, Lockheed Martin and others.
The Boeing-made F-15 Strike Eagle is a twin-engine fighter designed for multi-role capabilities. Additional customers in the Middle East include the governments of Saudi Arabia and Israel.
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2016/11/18/State-Dept-approves-sale-of-72-F-15-fighters-to-Qatar/7371479486805/
The Obama administration has gone full retard
PapaDragon- Posts : 12891
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Well technically you can't use F-15 to stone women to death so it's all kosher...
calm- Posts : 1484
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Location : Serbia
^^
+40 F-18 for Kuwait
Kuwait cleared to buy 32 F/A-18Es and 8 F/A-18Fs; conformal fuel tanks included
Thats $30+ billion
Waiting for KSA to double that, and - The collapse of Saudi Arabia is inevitable
+40 F-18 for Kuwait
Kuwait cleared to buy 32 F/A-18Es and 8 F/A-18Fs; conformal fuel tanks included
Thats $30+ billion
Waiting for KSA to double that, and - The collapse of Saudi Arabia is inevitable
Last edited by calm on Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
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Join date : 2013-09-16
nice bit of cash for the americans.
GarryB- Posts : 36377
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Plus it makes Iran more nervous too... an added bonus as far as the US is concerned.
Lots of cash and lots of work for US workers too.
BTW 21 billion for 72 F-15s... makes Rafales sound cheap...
Lots of cash and lots of work for US workers too.
BTW 21 billion for 72 F-15s... makes Rafales sound cheap...
par far- Posts : 3352
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GarryB wrote:Plus it makes Iran more nervous too... an added bonus as far as the US is concerned.
Lots of cash and lots of work for US workers too.
BTW 21 billion for 72 F-15s... makes Rafales sound cheap...
These idiots got ripped off.
starman- Posts : 673
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It's obvious Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait are arming to counter Iran. If Israel was their main concern, now, they'd either ask for F-35s or turn to nonAmerican suppliers for Rafales or SU-35s. But if the political landscape changes drastically, Strike Eagles could be used against Israel someday.
par far- Posts : 3352
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GarryB wrote:Plus it makes Iran more nervous too... an added bonus as far as the US is concerned.
Lots of cash and lots of work for US workers too.
BTW 21 billion for 72 F-15s... makes Rafales sound cheap...
Iran is not going to be nervous, Iran was under sanctions for 36 years and these assholes would not dare attack Iran, now that Iran is out of those illegal sanctions. Iran can improve it's economy and in 5 years buy modern military equipment.
It is one thing to buy these shiny new toys but it is a another thing to use them, these assholes can go and buy any new toy they want from NATO assholes but they won't have one thing that Iranians have and that is the courage and bravery to die for their country and that is something you cannot buy, you are born with it.
OminousSpudd- Posts : 942
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Has a point to be honest, look at Yemen. Doesn't matter how good your equipment is if you fight like that.par far wrote:GarryB wrote:Plus it makes Iran more nervous too... an added bonus as far as the US is concerned.
Lots of cash and lots of work for US workers too.
BTW 21 billion for 72 F-15s... makes Rafales sound cheap...
Iran is not going to be nervous, Iran was under sanctions for 36 years and these assholes would not dare attack Iran, now that Iran is out of those illegal sanctions. Iran can improve it's economy and in 5 years buy modern military equipment.
It is one thing to buy these shiny new toys but it is a another thing to use them, these assholes can go and buy any new toy they want from NATO assholes but they won't have one thing that Iranians have and that is the courage and bravery to die for their country and that is something you cannot buy, you are born with it.
GarryB- Posts : 36377
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These idiots got ripped off.
Qatar are not idiots and nor is the Obama administration in this case.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia get to be war criminals by buying big ticket items at inflated prices from the head war criminal of the world... the US.
Money talks.
There will be no investigative reporting in the US about whether they are war criminals because the same rich people who own the media outlets in the US also own the weapons factories that now have some work at a time when the US military is not buying these things. They don't sht where they eat.
So everyone wins... Qatar gets some shiny new planes they will likely hire foreign mercenaries to fly for them, the US gets forward deployed aircraft they are familiar with in an emergency and more pressure on Iran, though I do agree that Yemen is an example of high tech stuff only being a fraction of the puzzle... the only losers here are the victims of the qatar government and the saudi government... and their actions... which means the people of Yemen, the people of Saudi Arabia, the people of qatar, the people of Syria and Iraq (because of ISIS) and the people of Iran. And of coruse the Russian people and Turkish people who have to deal with the results of the actions of those countries.
But why should the US care about that...
higurashihougi- Posts : 2711
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GarryB wrote:Plus it makes Iran more nervous too... an added bonus as far as the US is concerned.
Lots of cash and lots of work for US workers too.
BTW 21 billion for 72 F-15s... makes Rafales sound cheap...
At least F-15 is a good fighter, it is the mightiest fighter of the West so far, and will be for the next 10 years due to the failure of F-22/35.
And at least wind can still accesses F-15's vertical stabs at high AoA, in F-15 it is not blocked by the hull and wings like Rafale or Typhoon.
GarryB- Posts : 36377
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The late model F-15 is a formidable aircraft and I would rate it as much more valuable to an air force than an F-35... if the air defence is so powerful you have to hide from it then you probably should not be using your manned aircraft in the first few waves of the attack.
After the main comms and HQs are hit and the big radars are down then an F15 can carry more further and much faster than the F-35.
To be honest if I was Trump I would cut the F35 to say 500 aircraft and just build more F-15s and F-16s.
Of course that will ruin the pork in the F-35 and they will become like 300 million a piece but at least you will still have numbers of good aircraft to get the job done.
After the main comms and HQs are hit and the big radars are down then an F15 can carry more further and much faster than the F-35.
To be honest if I was Trump I would cut the F35 to say 500 aircraft and just build more F-15s and F-16s.
Of course that will ruin the pork in the F-35 and they will become like 300 million a piece but at least you will still have numbers of good aircraft to get the job done.
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