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3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GarryB

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Post n°201

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GarryB Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am

Something wrong with my calculator then... I was taking 320m/s as mach one, so 320 x 9 = 2880m/s according to my computer calculator...

Lets do it manually... 320 + 320 = 640.

640 + 640 + 640 + 640 + 320 = 1280 + 1280 +320 = 2560 + 320 = 2880.

Fairly straight forward if you are into computers and are familiar with Binary... take the zero off and treat it like 32... 32 times 8 is 256... put the zero back on and add 320 and you get 2880m/s...

10 times the speed of sound at 320m/s would be 3200m/s or 3.2km/s... deduct 320m/s and you get 2880m/s... so my numbers seem to add up.

Either way covering the 400km EEZ to Washington is going to be less than 3 minutes... you could have an obvious missile carrier there 24/7 and a few less obvious also there in case that one is preemptively attacked... which in itself would be justification for the other clandestine platforms to immediately attack... so either way you get your shot at the Washington cronies.

Imagine... right now... start a stopwatch... wherever you are... what can you do in 2 and a half minutes?

Not very much... It would be very restrictive to have to remain within 2 minutes and 30 seconds from a security bunker... and when Gzur II is ready and moves even faster... at mach 12-14... well then... perhaps the US is going to have to tone down the attitude?

Arrow

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Post n°202

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:14 am

ell... a Russian vessel 400km from Washington wrote:

The US will not let Russian ships be located 400 km from Washington" . In the event of war, this ship will not survive for several minutes.

at would be fantastic... very few things operate at high speed at low altitude because of the thickness of the atmosphere wrote:

It is impossible. Such a high speed at such a low altitude. Cirkon develops its 9 M at a height of about 40 km

hoom

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Post n°203

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

hoom Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:27 am

a Russian vessel 400km from Washington launches a mach 9 missile

Even at the height of the Soviet fleet I can't think of a case that a Soviet warship got within 400km of Washington.
Maybe some subs did, maybe.

Arrow

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Post n°204

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:30 am

The submarine will be detected quickly.

Hole

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Post n°205

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Hole Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:47 am

This are international waters. You can sail there anytime you want.

How would the morons at the Potomac attack the ship? With a Harpoon?

Even if, the ship only has to survive a few minutes. The Zirkons will be launched and half a minute later all important places in Washington will be destroyed. This is worth even a ship like PtG.

By the way, this deck launcher for Zirkon could be used to modernise this ones:

3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile - Page 9 011510

dino00

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Post n°206

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

dino00 Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:57 am

Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

Yeah yasen-m Will be detected easy. lol1

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°207

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GunshipDemocracy Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:05 pm

Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

yes, but ONLY if Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad

Hole wrote:This are international waters. You can sail there anytime you want.

How would the morons at the Potomac attack the ship? With a Harpoon?

Even if, the ship only has to survive a few minutes. The Zirkons will be launched and half a minute later all important places in Washington will be destroyed. This is worth even a ship like PtG.

By the way, this deck launcher for Zirkon could be used to modernise this ones:

IMHO waste of resources. But why to send people of suicidal l mission? not better drones, small, stealthy , long duration with 8 UKSK -M patrolling US coast lol1

flamming_python

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Post n°208

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

flamming_python Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:22 pm

GarryB wrote:Something wrong with my calculator then... I was taking 320m/s as mach one, so 320 x 9 = 2880m/s according to my computer calculator...

Lets do it manually... 320 + 320 = 640.

640 + 640 + 640 + 640 + 320 = 1280 + 1280 +320 = 2560 + 320 = 2880.

Fairly straight forward if you are into computers and are familiar with Binary... take the zero off and treat it like 32... 32 times 8 is 256... put the zero back on and add 320 and you get 2880m/s...

Or you could just add a 0 to 320, to give you 3200, and then subtract 320 from that to give you 2880.

Isos

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Post n°209

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Isos Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:31 pm

flamming_python wrote:

GarryB wrote:Something wrong with my calculator then... I was taking 320m/s as mach one, so 320 x 9 = 2880m/s according to my computer calculator...

Lets do it manually... 320 + 320 = 640.

640 + 640 + 640 + 640 + 320 = 1280 + 1280 +320 = 2560 + 320 = 2880.

Fairly straight forward if you are into computers and are familiar with Binary... take the zero off and treat it like 32... 32 times 8 is 256... put the zero back on and add 320 and you get 2880m/s...

Or you could just add a 0 to 320, to give you 3200, and then subtract 320 from that to give you 2880.

Or write "mach 9" in google search and it gives you the conversion automatically Very Happy

But Garry you did well the first calcul. You just typed mach 9 instead of mach 1.

Arrow

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Post n°210

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Arrow Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:41 pm

If it were so simple, it would be a much better idea to send 955 to the near coast of the USA or at least 1000 km away. Bulava is much faster to Cirkon.

Isos

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Post n°211

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Isos Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:03 pm

Arrow wrote:If it were so simple, it would be a much better idea to send 955 to the near coast of the USA or at least 1000 km away. Bulava is much faster to Cirkon.

Do you know what is a ballistic trajectory ?

PapaDragon

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Post n°212

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

PapaDragon Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:35 pm

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

yes, but ONLY if Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad

If memory serves me Aquaman is on very good terms with Russian Navy Cool

Hole

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Post n°213

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Hole Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:22 pm

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

yes, but ONLY if Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad

Hole wrote:This are international waters. You can sail there anytime you want.

How would the morons at the Potomac attack the ship? With a Harpoon?

Even if, the ship only has to survive a few minutes. The Zirkons will be launched and half a minute later all important places in Washington will be destroyed. This is worth even a ship like PtG.

By the way, this deck launcher for Zirkon could be used to modernise this ones:

IMHO waste of resources. But why to send people of suicidal l mission? not better drones, small, stealthy , long duration with 8 UKSK -M patrolling US coast

I wrote IF it would be destroyed. And it would be worth it. The top echelon of the command and control system of your enemy destroyed for a single ship… Cool

kvs

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Post n°214

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

kvs Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:42 pm

Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

No technology exists, including the vaunted VLBM acoustic nets that can detect the submarine.
No EM radiation can scan through the electrolytic sea water and the submarine would have to be making absurd amounts
of noise to be detect by long range acoustic nets since the background noise in the oceans exceeds the noise generated
by modern submarines that are not pushing their upper underwater speed (which results in nonlinear increase in screw
noise and low frequency sound emissions from hull vibrations).

The smug, ignorant attitude you present is the same as that of your idiot leaders. Who, just like all the other
invaders of Russia, don't have the mental capacity to evaluate their chances and ride the masturabatory wave
of hubris.

kvs

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Post n°215

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

kvs Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:47 pm

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

yes, but ONLY if Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad

The clowns in charge of Exceptonalistan probably think they have some superheroes working for their crusader armed forces.
They are that demented and infantile.

I would not take Putin's statements too far. He is not going to show all of Russia's cards to the western "partners" (genocidal
psychopaths). He is just highlighting that well known Russian missiles are already enough to give Washington a real headache
even if they base IRBMs in Ukraine and Georgia.

But I suggest to Putin that Russia adopt a pre-emptive strike policy for NATO missile deployments in Ukraine and Georgia.
There is no need for NATO to place missiles there for "self defense" and these are pure aggressive moves against Russia.
Let's see how far NATO takes it.

LMFS

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Post n°216

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

LMFS Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:09 pm

kvs wrote:

Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

No technology exists, including the vaunted VLBM acoustic nets that can detect the submarine.
No EM radiation can scan through the electrolytic sea water and the submarine would have to be making absurd amounts
of noise to be detect by long range acoustic nets since the background noise in the oceans exceeds the noise generated
by modern submarines that are not pushing their upper underwater speed (which results in nonlinear increase in screw
noise and low frequency sound emissions from hull vibrations).

The smug, ignorant attitude you present is the same as that of your idiot leaders. Who, just like all the other
invaders of Russia, don't have the mental capacity to evaluate their chances and ride the masturabatory wave
of hubris.

Martianov on the subject:

Well, what can I say: 3.14 x 1000^2=3.14 million square kilometers of potential search area for a single submarine carrying Zircons. For comparison, 3+ million square kilometers is the area of India. Good luck coming up with the location probability density mapping for this one.

Smoothie , Putin says Submarine and Ships can be in international waters
and strike US main land target , is this possible as they might get
hunted down submarine or ships

ASW is very important, and expensive, but it is obvious that US coasts are protected by a number of ASW systems in which:

1. Patrol Aviation (P-3 Orion, P-8 Poseidon) ;
2. US Navy's SSNs;
3. Sea-bottom acoustic (and non-acoustic) sensors

are main means to conduct search, detection and annihilation of any submersed threats to US coasts. Yes, subs can patrol in international (and not always, wink, wink) waters within ranges of their weapons. The longer the range of the weapon, the larger is the territory (A=Enemy's Weapon Range X Rough Length of the Coast) which needs to be patrolled and searched. If to very roughly calculate the Area of possible Zircon's salvo, giving a base of US East Coast (from Maine to Florida's tip) as 2,500 kilometers, we are talking about 1,000 X 2,500 = 2.5 million square kilometers area which needs to be searched against Zircon-carrying platform. You know what? Let me make a separate post about it.

http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2019/02/four-three-two-one-experts.html

So yes, good luck searching for subs in an area like that Laughing

dino00

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Post n°217

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

dino00 Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:59 pm

The pentagon is so close to the shore...how juicy.

I think Russia is going all-in to bankrupt the evil Empire. The cost of defense systems against Avangard, Zirkon, Poseidon Will be insane, and probably Will nott work.
How will the US navy defend the use of aircraft carriers with so many systems tha can send them to the botton of the ocean? And thy dont have defense...
...Zirkon, khinzals, kh-32, Shvkal, Poseidon, will be hard to choose.

kvs

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Post n°218

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

kvs Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

dino00 wrote:The pentagon is so close to the shore...how juicy.

I think Russia is going all-in to bankrupt the evil Empire. The cost of defense systems against Avangard, Zirkon, Poseidon Will be insane, and probably Will nott work.
How will the US navy defend the use of aircraft carriers with so many systems tha can send them to the botton of the ocean? And thy dont have defense...
...Zirkon, khinzals, kh-32, Shvkal, Poseidon, will be hard to choose.

That is indeed quite juicy. NATO likes to stroke itself how it bankrupted the USSR with the arms race (this is, of course, BS since command
economies cannot be bankrupted unless every worker is forced to engage in activity that leaves vital sectors of the economy non-functional
and for sure only a smaller percentage of people in the USSR were working in military jobs). But this time around Russia has the potential
to bankrupt the corrupt NATO. Any system that NATO will deploy will be overpriced beyond belief. The current military prices in the USA
and its NATO pals bear no relation to the utility of the products and are pure pork barrel rot. By forcing an asymmetric response, Russia
is taking this rot and taking taking it to the second power. This comes at a time when NATO's GDP is stagnating and contracting and the
middle class is shrinking. But hey, they can always borrow and print the money. LOL.

Hole

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Post n°219

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Hole Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:15 pm

What really "bankrupted" Russia (SU) were the high costs of the social programs (education, health care and so on) + military expenditure. But the military costs were so high not because of the strategic weapons systems but the concentional forces. They were so large to beat NATO + China at the same time and to occupy the whole of western europe. This sort of warfare is no longer neccessary. If attacked, Russia will strike back with his formidable weapons and destroy a lot of western infastructure = destroy the capability to wage a large war. After that most western states would be in turmoil. No need to occupy them, they would beg for peace (even the poles).

kvs

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Post n°220

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

kvs Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:10 pm

Hole wrote:What really "bankrupted" Russia (SU) were the high costs of the social programs (education, health care and so on) + military expenditure. But the military costs were so high not because of the strategic weapons systems but the concentional forces. They were so large to beat NATO + China at the same time and to occupy the whole of western europe. This sort of warfare is no longer neccessary. If attacked, Russia will strike back with his formidable weapons and destroy a lot of western infastructure = destroy the capability to wage a large war. After that most western states would be in turmoil. No need to occupy them, they would beg for peace (even the poles).

There was no real budget in the USSR. This is a common misconception in the west. There were also no real prices for goods and services.
Command economies work by directive not by market forces. This is why capitalist economies adopt command economy modes of operation
during war time since there is no time to deal with market speculation and inefficiency. There is such a thing as market inefficiency. Markets
are every resistant to expensive product introduction (why we are still driving internal combustion engines for more than 100 years).

The USSR was brought down by the public's perceived loss of freedom and the greed of the Party and management structures to live it
up capitalist style. Gorbie introduced a NEP style of reform where "initiative" was to be rewarded to stimulate the economy. This had the
opposite effect since a new class of crooks developed that wanted more and more. His prohibition style alcohol control program was also
a boon for black marketeers just like it was in the USA. Stagnation in the USSR really started from the mid 1970s and terminated with the
dissolution of the USSR. Gorbie was the one who did the country in. But he was capitalizing on a wave of discontent. Command economics
is a superior system for computers. For humans, who have emotions and needs (greed, envy, hate, etc.), a different type of economy is
needed to accommodate psychological constraints. This is something that none of the socialist theoreticians really understood.

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°221

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GunshipDemocracy Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:59 am

flamming_python wrote:
Or you could just add a 0 to 320, to give you 3200, and then subtract 320 from that to give you 2880.

c'mon GB is THE humanist ,no need for math here lol1

PapaDragon wrote: If memory serves me Aquaman is on very good terms with Russian Navy

Thats why he is the only hope now thumbsup

even Samuel L. Jackson wont help this time. bounce

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°222

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GunshipDemocracy Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:44 am

GarryB wrote:

pr "heavy" ships......Zircon in UKSK-M
MKR's got................."lightweight". Zircon in UKSK?

Or maybe there are three classes... frigates and corvettes have UKSK, some new boats don't have integral launchers and rely on shipping crate mounted missiles, and ships new build or upgraded bigger than Frigate have UKSK-M?

The new smaller Zircon is for the small ships with no UKSK launcher that use shipping crates for such missiles... or the UKSK-M is to allow standard Zircons to be used which means new Zircon can fit all existing UKSK launchers fitted to smaller ships and subs, while the big new zircon will need to wait for bigger vessels to be launched/upgraded.

ok very logical but Im not sure why "lightweight" Zircon cannot be used both with UKSK (MRKs) and with shipping containers ( Like 2210 with 2x4Zircons)? IMHO something th at h as range 1000km+ and speed 9Ma is unlikely lightweight

BTW with range 1000km+ no way small ship can control them so either netcenric control or supa intelligent missile with star navigation + multi-spectral homing?

GB wrote: In which case a bigger UKSK-M might allow expanded and enlarged types of all missiles currently in development for new ships larger than Frigate... including S-500.

Kalibr-M , which In my IMHO is great tool but for land power projection vide Syria , not relly good for ASh application/

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°223

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GunshipDemocracy Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:47 am

GarryB wrote:Hell, they could take a leaf out of Chinas book and build an artificial island there....

there's cheaper, more effective solution - sea-bed IRBMs ...

kvs wrote:
The clowns in charge of Exceptonalistan probably think they have some superheroes working for their crusader armed forces.
They are that demented and infantile.

dont say Marvel heroes dont exist! you're gonna hurt US admirals' inner child respekt

Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°224

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

GunshipDemocracy Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:52 am

@Hole -

If you meant trolling of Fashington elites, not really military application then greed. Militarily is much more efficient to use seabed missiles. Especially when you constantly shuffle their locations. lol1

Arrow wrote: The US will not let Russian ships be located 400 km from Washington" .

wot what about freedom of navigation so much praised by US admirals ? lol1

Arrow wrote: It is impossible. Such a high speed at such a low altitude. Cirkon develops its 9 M at a height of about 40 km

dont be such sooo negative , Kinzhal or DF-41 meet US carriers with even higher speed. russia

hoom

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Post n°225

Re: 3M22 Zircon Hypersonic Cruise Missile

hoom Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:16 am

there's cheaper, more effective solution - sea-bed IRBMs ...

There is a treaty banning that which US hasn't yet withdrawn from.

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