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    Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:51 am

    Peŕrier wrote:

    The answer is a smart, and flexible defense, and a flexible defense requires mobile forces. Subs are an excellent tool, but they alone just are not enough.

    And land based combat aircrafts are not a flexible tool.

    A mobile naval task group with an organic air combat wing, along with subs, form together a flexible tool.

    Land based defenses are just strongholds, useful to boost mobile forces effectiveness, but are never an answer to a mobile threat.

    So in your opinion floating airfield with all its restrictions if faster than fighters bombers itself? Nobody says AC group is easy target but you seem to see it as invicible one. You never thought why Soviet Union built T-22M armada with Kh-22? Why now Russia is implementing Kh-32 and soon GZUR (1500 km range) ? Why so many Zircon capable boats are being massively built?



    You do not need 50 Su-34s to strike one group. One missile with 100kt tactical nuke is fair enough for the whole CSG. Do you think Russia will not see US groups coming near shores? Or let them come too close without reaction? There are also new weapons coming : unmanned subs, new skhval torpedoes (again with 100kt warheads) , strike drones. Sarmat/Rubezh with hypersonic warheads. In couple of years next stage or GZURs coming with 14Ma.

    And you still believe in Midway scenarios?

    Besides what would you expect Russia to build 12 GSGs? to build one is not enough to fight 1-1 , thus Russia doesn't need classical carrier . 2-3 light universal one is just fine. With good ASW capabilities.








    Singular_Transform wrote:
    Peŕrier wrote:

    So no, ice won't mean absolutely nothing.

    Interesting, the carriers / US ships are ice classified ?

    monseneur Perrier is just lost in his statements Smile
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:13 am

    GarryB wrote:

    BTW I have seen no evidence to suggest the US Navy could defend against a single Onyx missile let alone a full scale attack of dozens.

    And Zircon will likely be ready well before any full sized carriers are even back in service let alone built from scratch...

    Zircon is shipborne GZUR with range ~1500km is airborne . I presume range means effective stopping AC groupings.

    BTW probably this would be expensive solution but can status 6 be used against CSGs? One big bomb below the whole CSG?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:28 pm

    Just 20 Tu-16s were enough to turn 5 a/c carriers away from Korea w/o firing a shot (see my prev. post).
    Under certain circumstances such as an all out war, the Status 6 could be used near the coast, but the open ocean it may not be possible to catch a CSG in time, unless it's placed there ahead of time along a probable route. CVs were detected from space already:
    Future russian aircraft carriers. #2 - Page 12 11adc_qb-varyag-yellowsea-08122011-full
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Ve8GAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT11&lpg=PT11&dq=liaoning++digital+globe&source=bl&ots=VtxuONEaef&sig=0W1NZKJ43Dg9ORPYMItR6Ty2ma4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW28ris5TZAhWnjlQKHQB1BioQ6AEITDAE#v=onepage&q=liaoning%20%20digital%20globe&f=false
    Future russian aircraft carriers. #2 - Page 12 Admiral_kuznetsov_gettyimages-620129266_b
    https://www.rbth.com/defence/2016/11/16/russian-navy-brings-the-big-guns-to-the-mediterranean_648383

    In 3-4 decades, there will be spaced based weapons (faster than any CVNs!) capable of destroying targets within minutes anywhere on the Earth surface & some buried/submerged 1s as well.
    In the meantime, the US has 11 CVNs but still maintains air bases on Diego Garcia & Guam; & India will have 3-4 CV/Ns but needs bases on Maldives & other islands in the Indian Ocean:
    The real US-Indian game plan is to create a “second island chain” (similar to the one in the Western Pacific) connecting Maldives with Diego Garcia (and Seychelles, where India has a base on one of the islands and has just concluded an agreement to build an airstrip and a sophisticated “monitoring station” at a cost of US$45 million) to curb the presence of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean and to control the sea lanes through which China conducts the bulk of its foreign trade. By the way, the US and India closely cooperate in monitoring the presence of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean. As part of the overall US-Indian strategy, New Delhi signed a Bilateral Agreement for Navy Cooperation with Singapore last November that provides Indian Navy ships temporary deployment facilities and logistics support at Singapore’s Changi naval base, which is near the disputed South China Sea, enabling India to engage in more activity in the Strait of Malacca through which China’s oil and natural-gas imports pass. India also maintains a big naval base in the Bay of Bengal in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands near the Strait of Malacca. Clearly, institutionalized mechanisms are being put in place to monitor Chinese naval activities in both the Strait of Malacca and the Arabian Sea – and to develop “chokepoints” to strangulate the Chinese economy in the event of a confrontation. Suffice to say, control of the Maldivian atolls is a crucial template of the overall US-Indian strategy to counter China’s rapidly growing blue-water navy and its capacity to project power in the Indian Ocean. http://www.atimes.com/article/maldives-crisis-us-indian-strategic-alliance-forming/
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:48 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote: Together with Kamchatka peninsula & Sakhalin, they r in fact unsinkable a/c carriers!



    1) Well, airbases in Anadyr (just close to Bering Strait) , Kotelnyi, Franz Josef or Nova Zemla close area for any aircraft carriers.  

    2)  I posted some time ago that in 2018 Russia will have at constellation tracing CSGs globally.

    3) Russians as I understand will use ASW helicopter carriers, drones, seabed detectors.  

    4) Russia's best answer is an asymmetric one. That is exactly what I can see now being implemented: helicopter-carriers for  ASW, subs, hypersonic seaborne and airborne missiles with long ranges, PAK-DA/Tu-160M2 with 12 hypersonic missiles each...


    Thus Northern Route  is virtually closed. Somehow I cannot see ho w CSG can sneak via   Scandinavian or Bering routes undetected. From west and south CSGs are not really different than land based air assault. And sea Russo-American CSGs battles are unlikely ever.

    P.S. That's why I still hope for Russian VSTOL fighter to complete hello carriers Smile





    Tsavo Lion wrote:Just 20 Tu-16s were enough to turn 5 a/c carriers away from Korea w/o firing a shot (see my prev. post).
    Under certain circumstances such as an all out war, the Status 6 could be used near the coast, but the open ocean it may not be possible to catch a CSG in time, unless it's placed there ahead of time along a probable route.



    Status 6 speed is 100kts, CSG is not more than 30kts. so each hour (even is Status 6 is chasing escaping CSG) you got 70kts difference. If it "welcomes" an incoming one you have 130kts speed so 8hrs for distance or 1000 nautical miles. The question is about detonation parameters. Perhaps going up to say 500m instead of 1000? less contamination wat]rhead more blast one? or 1 Mt is enough to blow all group.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:02 pm

    But at 100kt it can't maneuver, so when a CVN changes course as it frequently will, that torpedo is wasted.  
    If USN CVNs r forward deployed in Canada or Greenland they could enter the Arctic Ocean unannounced, but will need a fleet of icebreakers ready; in ice covered waters/cold temp. & refreezing it won't be possible to move at sufficient speed to get wind over deck needed for CTOLs. That's why STOVLs r better suited in the Arctic!
    The Russians r reopening/expanding/upgrading airbases on their islands & mainland there.

    The term unsinkable aircraft carrier first arose during World War II, to describe the islands and atolls in the Pacific Ocean that became strategically important as potential airstrips for American bombers in their transoceanic war against Japan. To this end, the US military engaged in numerous island hopping operations to oust the occupying Japanese forces from such islands; the US Navy Seabees would often have to subsequently construct airstrips there from scratch — sometimes over entire atolls — quickly, in order to support air operations against Japan.
    Malta and Iceland were sometimes described as unsinkable aircraft carriers during World War II, making Malta a target of the Axis powers. The US military is said to have considered Taiwan since the Chinese Civil War, and the British Isles and Japan during the Cold War, as unsinkable aircraft carriers. ..
    In 1983, Japanese Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone pledged to make Japan an "unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Pacific", assisting the US in defending against the threat of Soviet bombers. US Secretary of State General Alexander Haig described Israel as "the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk". In arguing against production of the CVA-01 aircraft carriers, the Royal Air Force claimed that Australia could serve adequately in the same role, using false maps that placed Australia 400 miles west of its actual location.
    During the Second World War, the United Kingdom gave some serious thought to building virtually unsinkable aircraft carriers from ice reinforced with sawdust (Project Habakkuk). A model was made, and serious consideration was given to the project, with a design displacing 2.2 million tons and accommodating 150 twin-engined bombers on the drawing board, but it was never produced.
    [Russia could probably build a giant 1 out of concrete, with NP & capable of accommodating any aircraft.]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsinkable_aircraft_carrier

    Ascension Island is ..about 1,600 kilometres (1,000 mi) from the coast of Africa and 2,250 kilometres (1,400 mi) from the coast of Brazil, roughly midway between the horn of South America and Africa. It is governed as part of the British Overseas Territory of Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, of which the main island, Saint Helena, is around 1,300 kilometres (800 mi) to the southeast. The territory also includes the sparsely-populated Tristan da Cunha archipelago, some 3,730 kilometres (2,300 mi) to the south, about halfway to the Antarctic Circle.
    ..During World War II it was an important naval and air station, especially providing antisubmarine warfare bases in the Battle of the Atlantic. ..
    The island is the location of RAF Ascension Island, which is a Royal Air Force station, a European Space Agency rocket tracking station, an Anglo-American signals intelligence facility and the BBC World Service Atlantic Relay Station. The island was used extensively as a staging point by the British military during the Falklands War.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_Island

    The atoll is located 3,535 km (2,197 mi) east of Tanzania's coast, 1,796 km (1,116 mi) south-southwest of the southern tip of India (at Kanyakumari) and 4,723 km (2,935 mi) west-northwest of the west coast of Australia..
    In the early 1970s, setbacks to United States military capabilities in the region including the fall of Saigon, victory of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, the closure of the Peshawar Air Station listening post in Pakistan and Kagnew Station in Eritrea, the Mayaguez incident, and the build-up of Soviet naval presence in Aden and a Soviet airbase at Berbera, Somalia, caused the United States to request, and the UK to approve, permission to build a fleet anchorage and enlarged airfield on Diego Garcia, and the Seabees doubled the number of workers constructing these facilities. Following the fall of the Shah of Iran and the Iran Hostage Crisis in 1979–1980, the West became concerned with ensuring the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf through the Strait of Hormuz, and the United States received permission for a $400-million expansion of the military facilities on Diego Garcia consisting of two parallel 12,000-foot-long (3,700 m) runways, expansive parking aprons for heavy bombers, ..
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia#Arrival_of_the_US_Navy

    Diego Garcia is strategically located, offering access to East Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia. The base serves as a staging area for the buildup or resupply of military forces prior to an operation. ..The United States saw the atoll as the "Malta of the Indian Ocean" equidistant from all points. The value has been proven many times, with the island providing an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" for the United States during the Iranian revolution, the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, Operation Enduring Freedom, and Operation Iraqi Freedom. In the contemporary era, the atoll continues to play a key role in America’s approach to the Indian Ocean as a flexible forward hub that can facilitate a range of regional strategies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia#United_Kingdom_military_activities

    Andersen Air Force Base played a major role in the Vietnam War. The host unit was later designated the 36th Wing (36 WG), assigned to the Pacific Air Forces (PACAF) Thirteenth Air Force (13AF). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam#Vietnam_War_and_later
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:27 am

    Beijing has responded to the US Navy’s ramped-up presence in the South China Sea – an aircraft carrier strike group led by the USS Carl Vinson has been scheduled to call at Vietnamese ports next month – with squadrons of advanced fighters including Su-35s and J-20s that will soon start patrolling the 3.5-million-square-kilometer sea.
    ..These aircraft can easily be stationed or serviced on several airstrips and bases created via dredging sand and shoals in the vast sea, after Beijing’s frenzied island-building has created a host of “unsinkable aircraft carriers” in the sea. http://www.atimes.com/article/pla-scrambles-su-35s-j-20s-s-china-sea-us-navy-sails/
    They'll send some H-6Ks & AWACS planes as well, & a sub may suddenly surface in front of &/ tail the CVN, like it did before:
    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/history/chinese-submarine-appeared-in-the-middle-of-a-carrier-battle-group.html
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:35 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Beijing has responded to the US Navy’s ramped-up presence in the South China Sea – an aircraft carrier strike group led by the USS Carl Vinson has been scheduled to call at Vietnamese ports next month – with squadrons of advanced fighters including Su-35s and J-20s that will soon start patrolling the 3.5-million-square-kilometer sea.
    ..These aircraft can easily be stationed or serviced on several airstrips and bases created via dredging sand and shoals in the vast sea, after Beijing’s frenzied island-building has created a host of “unsinkable aircraft carriers” in the sea. http://www.atimes.com/article/pla-scrambles-su-35s-j-20s-s-china-sea-us-navy-sails/
    They'll send some H-6Ks & AWACS planes as well, & a sub may suddenly surface in front of &/ tail the CVN, like it did before:
    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/history/chinese-submarine-appeared-in-the-middle-of-a-carrier-battle-group.html

    In case of China we got different situation comparing to Russia. China looks like is building 10 CSGs to protect its vital interests. This definitely is a long hand possibly to counter US one.
    Not sure how it going to end (since nature of warfare is constantly changing not only with AC )but China cases pretty different than Russia's one.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:24 am

    They won't need that many CV/Ns, 6-7 max. is the optimal #.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:22 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:They won't need that many CV/Ns, 6-7 max. is the optimal #.

    So far they planned to build

    8 Type 055 destroyers cruisers

    and

    5 ACs (but 2nd and 3rd generation only in one piece this to me means series could eventually follow)
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    Post  Kimppis Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:38 pm

    So when it comes China, there's always one question: what kind of timeframe are we talking about?

    China will become a vastly larger economy than the US. Of course their geographical reality is different and even in the future they will probably prioritize land-based assets and coastal defence more than America.

    However, they will have such a massive amount of resources at their disposal that they can quite easily afford 10 or even more supercarriers by 2050-60.

    IMO, China will have atleast 4-5 carriers by around 2030.

    And atleast 6 by 2040. 2 60,000 ton ski-jump carriers (1 operational, 1 launched), 2 conventional 80,000 supercarriers with EMALS and 2 100,000 ton supercarriers, probably nuclear powered...

    After that, who knows, pretty much anything's possible. 6 is certainly the bare minimum.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:35 pm

    Why are you talking about the defences of Russia against cruise missiles Tsavo Lion... Russia does not need CVNs to fight US CVNs, nor does it need them to defend Russian airspace... it needs them to defend the airspace around a group of Russian ships operating in the south pacific or south atlantic or Indian ocean or off the coast of Africa....

    And who cares with China is doing... this thread is about Future RUSSIAN carriers.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:Why are you talking about the defences of Russia against cruise missiles Tsavo Lion... Russia does not need CVNs to fight US CVNs, nor does it need them to defend Russian airspace... it needs them to defend the airspace around a group of Russian ships operating in the south pacific or south atlantic or Indian ocean or off the coast of Africa....

    And who cares with China is doing... this thread is about Future RUSSIAN carriers.
    \


    Chinese do Smile


    BTW Russian ACs will first be hello carriers what makes sense especially in north as ASW ships protecting own waters. And who knows Skiff missile launching arreas possibly too. We yet to see whether and if "real ACs" will be built.

    BTW EMALS in US uses no superconductors. It is based on kinetic power storages and stgill costs 1 billion USD Smile
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:Why are you talking about the defences of Russia against cruise missiles Tsavo Lion... Russia does not need CVNs to fight US CVNs, nor does it need them to defend Russian airspace...
    And who cares with China is doing... this thread is about Future RUSSIAN carriers.

    Some here raised that issue since NATO CSGs & SSGNs pack dozens pf CMs & therefore can strike RF from stand-off ranges. I never postulated that Russia needs CVNs to fight US CVNs, nor to defend the Russian airspace.
    PRC & RF r neighbours & the largest countries in Eurasia, with many common interests within the SCO & BRICS context. China also bought 2 former VMF TAKRs & 1 unfinished, now CV-16, (CV-17 & CV-18 r her follow ons) + dozens of Su-27/30s, on which J-11s & naval J-15/16s r based, & a few Ka-27/31s. Her CBG employment will be similar to Russia's, at least in the Indo-Pacific. That's why the Chinese carrier programme is worth to be compared with Russia's.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:48 am


    Chinese do Smile

    They can have their own thread... Wink

    BTW Russian ACs will first be hello carriers what makes sense especially in north as ASW ships protecting own waters. And who knows Skiff missile launching arreas possibly too. We yet to see whether and if "real ACs" will be built.

    You are assuming they will put ASW helicopters on board instead of Ka-52s and Ka-29s.

    BTW EMALS in US uses no superconductors. It is based on kinetic power storages and stgill costs 1 billion USD Smile

    Yeah, they didn't get gun launched anti tank guided missiles or rocket powered torpedoes right either... Razz

    Her CBG employment will be similar to Russia's, at least in the Indo-Pacific. That's why the Chinese carrier programme is worth to be compared with Russia's.

    When we don't even know what the Russians are planning for their navy how can you state that with any certainty?

    However the problems the Chinese have are similar to the problems Russia has... a hostile west controls most sea lanes around the world and they have nothing to counter them if they decide to enter the global market.

    A strong navy for both China and Russia would promote growth and expansion and be good for both countries, though there is little room for real cooperation, their planned growth should hurt western interests so unified action against western spoiling tactics would be beneficial to both countries.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:43 pm

    Her CBG employment will be similar to Russia's, at least in the Indo-Pacific. That's why the Chinese carrier programme is worth to be compared with Russia's.
    "When we don't even know what the Russians are planning for their navy how can you state that with any certainty?"
    At least I'm certain they can't plan something above & beyond that, after announcing the goal of having #2 Navy; & u wrote about them using CVNs to protect SLOCs, SSBNs, surface fleet, etc.- the same things the PLAN CV/Ns r intended for.
    Soviet Adm. Sergei Gorchkov reportedly held the view that the U.S. had made a strategic miscalculation by relying on large and increasingly vulnerable aircraft carriers. The influential U.S. Adm. Hyman Rickover [the son of Polish immigrants, the father of NP USN] shared this view. In a 1982 congressional hearing, legislators asked him how long American carriers would survive in an actual war. Rickover’s response? “Forty-eight hours,” he said.
    ..In 2002, the U.S. Navy held a large simulated war game, the Millennium Challenge, to test scenarios of attacks on the fleet by a hypothetical Gulf state — Iraq or possibly Iran.
    The leader of the red team employed brilliant asymmetric tactics resulting in 16 U.S. ships, including two supercarriers, going to the bottom in a very short span of time. ..
    Ballistic missiles are just the most recent challenge to carrier vulnerability. “I would argue that you can put a ship out of action faster by putting a hole in the bottom [with a torpedo] than by putting a hole in the top [with a weapon like the DF-21],” former U.S. Naval Operations chief Gary Roughhead said.
    This extends to diesel submarines. ..there are reports of around a dozen U.S. aircraft carriers being “sunk” in exercises with friendly countries including Canada, Denmark and Chile.
    In 2005, the USS Ronald Reagan was “sunk” by the Gotland, an electric diesel sub that the U.S. Navy borrowed from Sweden between 2005 and 2007 and which was never detected in exercises by U.S. carrier groups during all that time..
    The world, of course, is not standing still. Missile ranges and speeds will increase. Missiles will become more elusive and accurate — and could be nuclear-tipped. Sensors will see further and more accurately, significantly reducing the fog of war. Surface ships, no matter where located, will be increasingly vulnerable. ..Above the surface, supersonic anti-ship missiles that currently travel at Mach 2 will be replaced by hypersonic missiles that will travel at Mach 5, and Mach 10 and Mach 25.
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-u-s-navy-s-big-mistake-building-tons-of-supercarriers-79cb42029b8

    Did a Russian Built SSK 'Sink' a USN SSN?
    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/did-russian-built-stealth-submarine-sink-navy-nuclear-attack-24567
    The Virginias may not be quieter then the Kilos & Yuans.
    NATO & its allied SSKs with AIP could do the same to RuN SS/GNs incl. those escorting CBGs.
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    Post  Azi Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:04 pm

    I found something interesting at Sputniknews Germany...

    https://de.sputniknews.com/technik/20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger/

    They write that the decision for a concept of a carrier was finally made. The carrier should be 330 m long, 40 m wide, have a skijump and acceleration technology (mix of STOBAR and CATOBAR). The construction of new carrier should start in the frame of 2018-2025 and Krylow research centre is working now for the exact plan and specifications.

    The original was from Swesda TV, but I'm too lazy to google it. lol!

    If this information is correct they will go the US-American way with big carriers.

    No idea if the info is accurate or not!? dunno But it looks that Russia overall is more optimistic in financial situation and that many projects are now speeding very fast up.
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    Post  Isos Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:53 pm

    Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?
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    Post  eehnie Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:29 pm

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    Russia's navy can look forward to new aircraft carriers

    technology
    18:02 25.02.2018   (updated 19:19 25.02.2018)   To the short link

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    Faster than Bullet: New Missiles for Russian Navy >>>

    Crew des russischen Atomkreuzers Pjotr Welikij (Archivbild)
    ©️ Sputnik / Grigory Syssoew

    The launching system of the new aircraft carrier will consist of a so-called ski jump, a kind of "ski jump", and a device for acceleration.  The departure deck of the ship should be twice as large as that of Admiral Kuznetsov , who is currently the only aircraft carrier in the service of the Russian Seekriegsflotte.

    With the development of the new ship, the Russian Krylov Research Center in St. Petersburg should deal.  Construction is scheduled to commence under the new state-of-the-art upgrade program for the period 2018-2025.

    Well, the Project 23000 Shturm haters have a bad day. This article posted by azi is clearly talking about this Project.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:31 pm

    eehnie wrote:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    Russia's navy can look forward to new aircraft carriers

    technology
    18:02 25.02.2018   (updated 19:19 25.02.2018)   To the short link

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    Faster than Bullet: New Missiles for Russian Navy >>>

    Crew des russischen Atomkreuzers Pjotr Welikij (Archivbild)
    ©️ Sputnik / Grigory Syssoew

    The launching system of the new aircraft carrier will consist of a so-called ski jump, a kind of "ski jump", and a device for acceleration.  The departure deck of the ship should be twice as large as that of Admiral Kuznetsov , who is currently the only aircraft carrier in the service of the Russian Seekriegsflotte.

    With the development of the new ship, the Russian Krylov Research Center in St. Petersburg should deal.  Construction is scheduled to commence under the new state-of-the-art upgrade program for the period 2018-2025.

    Well, the Project 23000 Shturm haters have a bad day. This article posted by azi is clearly talking about this Project.

    What bad day ? they are saying they just chosed the parameters so it is another proof that the shtorm is just fan art.

    And 40m for the width ?!
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    Post  Peŕrier Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:41 pm

    Isos wrote:Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?

    Strings.
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    Post  Isos Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:43 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:
    Isos wrote:Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?

    Strings.

    Like cables ? Could it work with something big like a mig 29 or a future naval pak fa ?
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    Post  Peŕrier Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:48 pm

    Isos wrote:Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?

    Strings like elastic strings.
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    Post  eehnie Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:59 pm

    A little more clearly for the "expert" Isos.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 pm

    eehnie wrote:A little more clearly for the "expert" Isos.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    The reality is that the shtorm maket was their since years ago while the "preliminary calculations" were chosen like today and it is just sputnik quoting a tv not an official statement.

    Preliminay calculation not even design. PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS which is a proof that shtorm had nothing official all this time.


    And in  your article it is said "krylov SHOULD deal with the new carrier" which means their shtorm had nothing official and they are still not told by the russian MoD to start thinking about it.

    Do you understand words ?
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    Post  eehnie Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:10 am

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    For the people that wants to pay attention to the reality.

    This new means:

    1.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23000 has been completed.
    2.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23000 is ready for examination of the Ministry of Defense.
    3.- Pending approval of the project by the Ministry of Defense.

    Compared to other projects:

    1.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23560 Lider was approved by the Russian Ministry of Defense in the spring of 2017. The Project 23560 Lider is more advanced than the Project 23000 Shtorm.
    2.- According to the public news about the Russian Marine Doctrine of 2015, a project of aircraft carrier must be ready by 2020. There is not other alternative project publicly known at this point.
    3.- There are not news about the a preliminary design prepared for the Projects Privoi, Lavina or Kashalot of Large Amphibious Ships (helicopter carriers). The Project 23000 Shtorm is more advanced than the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina and the Project Kashalot.


    Last edited by eehnie on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 am; edited 2 times in total

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