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48 posters

    2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG

    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:46 pm

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:03 pm

    George1 wrote:Indonesia bought the naval version. Interesting

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t5800p150-russia-indonesia-arms-contracts#326949

    Well they should have no problems installing these instead of 30mm CIWS but general results is pretty much the same once the hot led starts hitting you

    Few large ones of loads of small ones, same thing over same period of time

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    Post  LMFS Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:01 am

    Not even close, big calibers allow guided rounds with way higher efficiency against difficult targets. Even the normal air burst of such a big round is incomparably more powerful with a bigger blast radius than what 30 mm can do
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:33 am

    LMFS wrote:Not even close, big calibers allow guided rounds with way higher efficiency against difficult targets. Even the normal air burst of such a big round is incomparably more powerful with a bigger blast radius than what 30 mm can do

    Coast Guard never deals with difficult targets, one 30mm round stopped that 404 boat dead in it's tracks

    Now imagine what 2 second burst would do

    It's enough
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    Post  Isos Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:36 am

    Well drones are spreading everywhere.

    57mm with its thermals is way better to counter them at decent range compare to ak-630.

    They could also go with naval Sosn-R. Was it called Palma or Palash ?

    Guided rounds needs prprogrammation which can break down. A burst of 30 mm can't go wrong and it create a cloud that moves towards the targets at mach 3 that can't be evaded. Both are effective.


    Last edited by Isos on Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:38 am

    Isos wrote:Well drones are spreading everywhere. ...

    If drones are in play then it's Navy's jurisdiction not Coast Guard's

    And majority of drones will get stomped by 30mm anyway
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    Post  Isos Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:41 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:Well drones are spreading everywhere. ...

    If drones are in play then it's Navy's jurisdiction not Coast Guard's

    Yeah but we are talking about a defensive weapon. It is meant to defend the ship when attacked. So if a threat shows up it can't wait for the navy ship to come.

    And drones can be used by everyone. Coast guards are a military force that uses weapons for a reason. They can't just wait for the navy.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:23 am

    30mm are cheap and are devastating against most aircraft, but against smaller targets you do have to fire a lot of rounds to assure a hit.


    Without airburst ammo the 30mm is excellent for use against helicopters and low flying aircraft, but for rather smaller targets like missiles it struggles and you will end up using enormous amounts of ammo to get hits... where the round has to make contact with the target to have any effect.

    Certainly air burst rounds that explode near the target make it much more effective against very small targets.

    If you want to stop a ship then a burst of 30mm rounds through the bridge will stop any ship in its tracks, while a few 30mm round in the water ahead of a boat can have the same effect.

    A 57mm gun extends the range it will work, and its HE rounds carry vastly more HE and fragmentation material so even heavily built targets can be damaged with air burst 57mm rounds.

    The core reason for the 57mm gun is tiny drones where airburst rounds send thousands of splinters into the airspace the drones occupy making hits certain, but also on land against IFVs with 100-150mm frontal armour can be engaged with serious APFSDS rounds that are much more powerful than the similar rounds in 30mm calibre.

    With airburst rounds I would expect 30mm weapons to continue to be used, but 57mm guns will also enter use simply for its better range and the fact that 100 x 30mm rounds probably cost more than 2-3 air burst 57mm rounds and are easier and cheaper to store.

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    Post  Hole Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:33 pm

    2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG - Page 16 3uo7_310
    57mm ammo

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:55 pm

    Hole wrote:2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG - Page 16 3uo7_310
    57mm ammo
    From left to right: 
    3UO7 57 mm shot with a guided artillery shell, 
    3UBM22 57 mm shot with an armor-piercing feathered sub-caliber projectile, 
    3UO8 57 mm shot with a multifunctional projectile.


    Last edited by Russian_Patriot_ on Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:36 am

    Hole wrote:2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG - Page 16 3uo7_310
    57mm ammo
    *Rheinmetall and Hanwha internally screaming*

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:38 am

    Not to mention makers of drones....
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:Not to mention makers of drones....
    The answer to drones would be distributed low power jamming stations that can be sown like mines throughout likely UAV routes to cut communications, preferably delivered via tube or rocket artillery. The idea being, to rapidly blanket or wall off sections of the airspace that the UAVs would essentially get lost in until they eventually just run our of juice and nosedive into the earth.

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    Post  Hole Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:44 pm

    2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG - Page 16 16247210
    Another angle

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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:50 am

    Video from where all that stuff was taken from:

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    Post  TMA1 Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:24 am

    My man! I knew those were cut away shells. Ahh now I'm just going to stare at those beauties for a sec.
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    Post  Isos Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:41 pm

    2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG - Page 16 E45itl10

    2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG - Page 16 E45h9s11

    2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO 57-mm AAA SPG - Page 16 E45iqw11

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    Post  Mir Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:02 pm

    I really like this SPAAG but I keep thinking they should mate this to the Sosna as another option. Also as a naval mount like the Palma but obviously 57mm.
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    Post  limb Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:12 pm

    Why is the ammo count so low? AFAIK, most of the ammo is only stored under the turret ring the turret and the derivatsiya doesnt use extra space in the hull even if the hull is spacious due to having a troop compartment.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:45 pm

    I really like this SPAAG but I keep thinking they should mate this to the Sosna as another option. Also as a naval mount like the Palma but obviously 57mm.

    The AU-220 turret is a unified land and naval turret for use on land vehicles and boats... The guns and missiles would compliment each other with missiles better for manouvering targets and guns good enough for straight and level targets and cheaper.

    They are revising SOSNA at the moment AFAIK with an increase in range to 20km which should be interesting... the PINE (ground based SOSNA) is based on an MTLB chassis but does not use a search radar which makes it much cheaper.

    It was the cost of a search radar for a gun system and a search radar for an all weather missile system that resulted in the Tunguska combination vehicle, but if only every other vehicle needs a radar then they can split them again.

    For dedicated air defence the full internal capacity of these vehicles should be able to be used for ammo.. but the rounds themselves are large... bigger than a 2.25 litre bottle of fizzy drink.

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