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    France Foreign Policy and Diplomacy

    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:18 am

    GarryB wrote:
    In this context, do these events on the opposite sides of Eurasia make the term "WWII" also wrong?

    WWII was not limited to Europe... it was a truly global war so should have been called WWI... what we called WWI should have been called the four year war of europe.

    The USSR as well plays little to no role. France had relative small damage during WW II compared to WW I.

    Yeah, they changed sides faster than a cheese eating surrender monkey would...

    At the moment we also plan to improve relations with Russia.

    I expect your wish could come true because the only reason there are bad relations with Russia is because the west are a bunch of censored .

    Of course knowing the EU you will fuck it up by demanding that Russia admits to all its past crimes like killing that nobody in the UK and shooting down planes they didn't shoot down and of course invading the Ukraine but never actually taking Kiev even after years of supposed interference... and Putin will say he wants better relations but not on those terms and France will either drop that shit and just normalise relations and start making money again or it will get all prissy and claim there is no communicating with criminals that wont admit they are criminals...

    Our enemy is China. Our rival is USA. And that principle is not dependend on who is president. Macron and Le Pen have same opinion about that. French foreign politics were never shaped who ruled
    France.

    And that will be your problem going forward because as far as Russia is concerned China is ready to do business and the EU and the US are not... China is not the problem... the west is... mainly coming from the US, but the EU is just a mouthpiece of the US anyway.

    It will also have nuclear weapons stationed there in near future. Protect the south pacific against China and secure Australia and New Zealand.

    Ahhh fuck off... we are not fucking idiot drones like the french or british or american public... nuclear weapons are a threat not a guarantee of peace... they would be an escalation and a huge step in the wrong direction and France is arrogant and ignorant to the opinions of others to put them here anyway... despite how counter productive they are.

    Since the referendum made clear that it stays France, we will see some great investment there. Same can be said about French Polynesia

    For how long...

    Russia won't improve relations with Paris at the expense of her relations with Beijing. W/o good relations with China, forget it.

    From a Russian perspective the EU and China and the US are all potential trade partners... Russia is not best buddies with any of them and none of them have Russias back, but of the three the US is the worst and the Chinese are the easiest to work with and deal with... the EU is unreliable and needs permission from the US even to build ships and pipelines...

    2. France is only nuclear power in EU. By EU nuclear weapons, we mean a program that widens our arsenal.

    Now the UK has left I rather suspect Germany will start wanting nuclear weapons now too...

    3. You obviously dont know Australia well. They hate the chinese. Chinese are seen as very negative in Australia, as enemy in many areas and more and more hostilities arise. What France can offer? Nuclear protection in the future war im the pacific, which will happen anyways.

    Yeah, they are some of the most racist censored  around... only South Africans and the Dutch are worse/more open about it.... but they also make a lot of money sending coal and other materials to China... China is a major export customer of Australia and they know that too, so the racist banter about skin colour and the shape of the eyelids will be toned down in public while those links are working.

    What makes u think they don't hate u behind ur back?

    Of course they hate the French... and the Germans... they tend to mock the british more than hate them... you will hear them talk about whinging poms... they like to beat them at cricket and rugby the most.

    I am not a great fan of sport... as far as I am concerned I would rather play than just sit and watch... really don't understand the western culture of sitting on your ass watching other people play a game... they even watch video games being played by others... weird... but I do like to see the English win the Ashes Cricket series against Australia.


    The end effect will be like japan in WW II. A big war in pacific is inevitable so it will be good to be prepared.

    No it isn't... with the new silk routes China is creating trade between China and Europe wont be able to be cut with a naval blockade... but even if you could China has a large enough internal market that it could survive indefinitely being completely blocked off... which is not going to happen anyway.

    China does not need to expand out into the Pacific looking for resources to steal... the military damage and the economic damage would exceed any resources they could acquire putting them in a much worse position than they are in now with sanctions.

    Of course most of the sanctions are coming from the US, which will make China more independent of the US and its control... which is good for China in the long term... eventually the US will no longer dictate to anyone... eventually the EU will grow a pair and the UK might gather together its former commonwealth as a united group with power... or it might just shrink to nothing... either way the wests current power will radically diminish and to be clear its actual power is much less than its perceived power appears to be even today... everything it touches seems to go south... Syria to get rid of Assad, Libya to get rid of Gaddafi, Iraq to get rid of Saddam, Afghanistan to get rid of the Taleban and Al Quada... the result is enormously boosted Russian and Iranian presence in Syria, Gaddafi and Saddam gone but Libya in chaos spewing refugees into Europe, and Iraq largely sympathetic to Iran and growing more anti western every day... and justifiably so... and of course Afghanistan is the same old same old... no American miracle of peace and democracy after over a decade of war and death...

    Seems everything the west touches these days turns to shit.


    The massive trade opportunities Australia had with Japan did not change the fact that they dismissed them long before WW 2 broke out.

    That said, New Caledonia will always be France. Majority population is continental french. Like me. And we place our weapons where we want them. New Zealand is our friend, so you profit from us too.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:50 am

    New Zealand is our friend, so you profit from us too.

    No we aren't... we know what ruthless petty bastards you are... we have not forgotten.

    You don't actually think you can behave the way you do and it will be all forgive and forget?

    Now the UK is out of the EU I expect they will start trying to get back in touch with its commonwealth... they will likely also get a bit more friendly with China and Russia and if they do I can imagine the panic in the EU if the UK start trading with Russia and start winning some of those juicy infrastructure contracts they have on the books... hopefully most will go to Russian and Chinese companies or joint venture companies... at least they wont pull any sanctions shit.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:28 am

    GarryB wrote:
    New Zealand is our friend, so you profit from us too.

    No we aren't... we know what ruthless petty bastards you are... we have not forgotten.

    You don't actually think you can behave the way you do and it will be all forgive and forget?

    Now the UK is out of the EU I expect they will start trying to get back in touch with its commonwealth... they will likely also get a bit more friendly with China and Russia and if they do I can imagine the panic in the EU if the UK start trading with Russia and start winning some of those juicy infrastructure contracts they have on the books... hopefully most will go to Russian and Chinese companies or joint venture companies... at least they wont pull any sanctions shit.

    There is no country more anti russian than UK. So your pipedream is just that.

    And yes, New Zealand is our friend. Many tourists in New Caledonia and Polynesia are New Zealanders.

    If ýou have not forgive and forgotten, why come here and spend much money? Smile
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:31 pm

    There is no country more anti russian than UK. So your pipedream is just that.

    Fundamentally I agree, normally there would be little chance of improved relations with Russia for a UK safely nestled into the bossom of the EU market, but beggars can't be choosers and there is no way British industry can ignore the Russian market... especially while the US and EU are bound by sanctions to stay out...

    The Brits hate the Germans and the French at a pretty fundamental level but joined the EU quickly enough... They also turn their noses up at the Americans... listen to Jeremy Clarkson talk about American cars and while you might think that is an extreme view... he is very popular in the UK and many other places... not so much Australia now though...

    And yes, New Zealand is our friend. Many tourists in New Caledonia and Polynesia are New Zealanders.

    Lots of New Zealand tourists go to Auschwitz too... do you think we love nazis?

    If ýou have not forgive and forgotten, why come here and spend much money?

    Going to a pleasant destination and having a nice holiday is not related to friendship... they are not staying there for free and they wouldn't get much for free. It is a purely commercial arrangement... being friends or not being friends doesn't come in to it.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:16 am

    Exactly. Many Israelis used to go or still going to Egypt's Red Sea resorts & other places w/o having any strong love for Egyptians who enslaved Hebrews for 400 years according to the Old Testament, & fought a few wars with Israel. The same with Russians going to Turkey with which they had over a dozen of wars.
    Only the 1 who never been young never been a fool, at least sometimes.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:01 am

    GarryB wrote:
    There is no country more anti russian than UK. So your pipedream is just that.

    Fundamentally I agree, normally there would be little chance of improved relations with Russia for a UK safely nestled into the bossom of the EU market, but beggars can't be choosers and there is no way British industry can ignore the Russian market... especially while the US and EU are bound by sanctions to stay out...

    The Brits hate the Germans and the French at a pretty fundamental level but joined the EU quickly enough... They also turn their noses up at the Americans... listen to Jeremy Clarkson talk about American cars and while you might think that is an extreme view... he is very popular in the UK and many other places... not so much Australia now though...

    And yes, New Zealand is our friend. Many tourists in New Caledonia and Polynesia are New Zealanders.

    Lots of New Zealand tourists go to Auschwitz too... do you think we love nazis?

    If ýou have not forgive and forgotten, why come here and spend much money?

    Going to a pleasant destination and having a nice holiday is not related to friendship... they are not staying there for free and they wouldn't get much for free. It is a purely commercial arrangement... being friends or not being friends doesn't come in to it.

    The brits dont hate the germans and us french. Its antipathy at a core level. We dislike the brits. They dislike us. Same stands for the Germans. With russia its different and you know that.

    I dont know what new zealand tourists do at auschwitz. Here they let their girls get drilled from us french guys, party, do sea sports, hiking, diving.

    New Zealand girls love us. Same counts for aussie girls. Look at our south coast is a island called Île des Pins. Its like paradise. Infront are many smaller islands like Moro and Brosse. Lots of Aussie and Kiwi girls come here, are blinded by the amazing nature and our charme and looks. They are easy to hook up so i doubt they hate us.
    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:46 am

    GarryB wrote:The Brits hate the Germans and the French at a pretty fundamental level ...

    They hate the French coz the French are Catholics. But they certainly do not hate the Germans.

    GarryB wrote:They also turn their noses up at the Americans... listen to Jeremy Clarkson talk about American cars and while you might think that is an extreme view

    Brits love Americans. Why would they hate their fellow Anglo-Saxons? Jeremy Clarkson and a few people like him are outliers.

    PRISM (surveillance program) stands testimony to the deep bonds between US and UK. The only country US sells nuclear weapons, subs is UK.

    Ask any American who their closest friends/allies are and they will say Canada, UK and Australia.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:33 pm

    The brits dont hate the germans and us french. Its antipathy at a core level. We dislike the brits. They dislike us. Same stands for the Germans. With russia its different and you know that.

    I can't believe you don't get this Aris... you of all people... when you talk about hating Indians or this or that other ethnic group when you are on holiday in those places do you tell all of them how you feel... or do you pretend not to hate them in the interests of both self preservation and having a good time...

    There is a western phrase that when in a bad situation to grin and bear it... it basically means making the best of a bad situation... if you tell them truly what you think things could go rather bad for you so you smile and be polite and keep your thoughts to yourself.

    Imagine you have a loud boorish American... he is hardly going to stop being a prick because you... a complete stranger tells him what a prick he is being... he comes to France to explore the place and when you ask him where he wants to eat to get the real feel of Paris he says he wants to go to McDonalds...

    Most people around the world are polite and friendly to an individual that hasn't offended them yet... if they are quiet and polite and friendly things can go well... be a prick and you end up with someone saying "Don't mention the war"...

    People lie.

    It is after they come back and what they tell their friends about their trip where you find out something like the truth...

    Here they let their girls get drilled from us french guys, party, do sea sports, hiking, diving.

    Some girls just want to have fun. Don't read too much in to that.

    New Zealand girls love us. Same counts for aussie girls. Look at our south coast is a island called Île des Pins. Its like paradise. Infront are many smaller islands like Moro and Brosse. Lots of Aussie and Kiwi girls come here, are blinded by the amazing nature and our charme and looks. They are easy to hook up so i doubt they hate us.

    Hahaha... that is no way to judge what they really think... they are just having a good time.

    They hate the French coz the French are Catholics. But they certainly do not hate the Germans.

    Nah... these days most westerners are athiests... religion is just something else that makes them different and easier to not understand, but it is the history of wars and conflicts that create the mistrust and fundamental dislike.

    Brits love Americans.

    America is the overbearing big brother who controls the whole world in a way the Brits never did despite their enormous empire... love is the wrong word...

    Why would they hate their fellow Anglo-Saxons?

    Why do they dismiss Australians as ex-convicts?

    Jeremy Clarkson and a few people like him are outliers.

    He is very popular and one of the things he is popular for is for saying things many brits think but can't say out loud themselves...

    PRISM (surveillance program) stands testimony to the deep bonds between US and UK. The only country US sells nuclear weapons, subs is UK.

    Yeah, New Zealand is part of all that shit too but for the last 30 odd years the US has refused to send ships to visit here because of our anti nuclear policy.

    We are part of the five eyes network because the secret bases at Waihopi snoop on the radio communication traffic across the Pacific and South Asia, but especially when we have a Labour government we don't always follow the demands of the US or mother (UK)... and why should we?

    Ask any American who their closest friends/allies are and they will say Canada, UK and Australia.

    A pimp loves his hoes because they help him make money... an American would like those countries because they speak almost the same language and have a culture bombarded by US culture long enough to enable them to get McDonalds and KFC...
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:05 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The brits dont hate the germans and us french. Its antipathy at a core level. We dislike the brits. They dislike us. Same stands for the Germans. With russia its different and you know that.

    I can't believe you don't get this Aris... you of all people... when you talk about hating Indians or this or that other ethnic group when you are on holiday in those places do you tell all of them how you feel... or do you pretend not to hate them in the interests of both self preservation and having a good time...

    There is a western phrase that when in a bad situation to grin and bear it... it basically means making the best of a bad situation... if you tell them truly what you think things could go rather bad for you so you smile and be polite and keep your thoughts to yourself.

    Imagine you have a loud boorish American... he is hardly going to stop being a prick because you... a complete stranger tells him what a prick he is being... he comes to France to explore the place and when you ask him where he wants to eat to get the real feel of Paris he says he wants to go to McDonalds...

    Most people around the world are polite and friendly to an individual that hasn't offended them yet... if they are quiet and polite and friendly things can go well... be a prick and you end up with someone saying "Don't mention the war"...

    People lie.

    It is after they come back and what they tell their friends about their trip where you find out something like the truth...

    Here they let their girls get drilled from us french guys, party, do sea sports, hiking, diving.

    Some girls just want to have fun. Don't read too much in to that.

    New Zealand girls love us. Same counts for aussie girls. Look at our south coast is a island called Île des Pins. Its like paradise. Infront are many smaller islands like Moro and Brosse. Lots of Aussie and Kiwi girls come here, are blinded by the amazing nature and our charme and looks. They are easy to hook up so i doubt they hate us.

    Hahaha... that is no way to judge what they really think... they are just having a good time.

    They hate the French coz the French are Catholics. But they certainly do not hate the Germans.

    Nah... these days most westerners are athiests... religion is just something else that makes them different and easier to not understand, but it is the history of wars and conflicts that create the mistrust and fundamental dislike.

    Brits love Americans.

    America is the overbearing big brother who controls the whole world in a way the Brits never did despite their enormous empire... love is the wrong word...

    Why would they hate their fellow Anglo-Saxons?

    Why do they dismiss Australians as ex-convicts?

    Jeremy Clarkson and a few people like him are outliers.

    He is very popular and one of the things he is popular for is for saying things many brits think but can't say out loud themselves...

    PRISM (surveillance program) stands testimony to the deep bonds between US and UK. The only country US sells nuclear weapons, subs is UK.

    Yeah, New Zealand is part of all that shit too but for the last 30 odd years the US has refused to send ships to visit here because of our anti nuclear policy.

    We are part of the five eyes network because the secret bases at Waihopi snoop on the radio communication traffic across the Pacific and South Asia, but especially when we have a Labour government we don't always follow the demands of the US or mother (UK)... and why should we?

    Ask any American who their closest friends/allies are and they will say Canada, UK and Australia.

    A pimp loves his hoes because they help him make money... an American would like those countries because they speak almost the same language and have a culture bombarded by US culture long enough to enable them to get McDonalds and KFC...

    Your problem Gary is that you know not much about Europe nor your close nieghbors down in pacific.

    What i dont understand is your bitterness. Why so bitter and frustrated?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:54 pm

    Hahaha... you are young... you don't understand.... give it time... being told something is not the same as experiencing it for yourself...

    Being told something like what it was like during WWII is nothing like what it is to experience it... the constant stress and fear... the real hatred for your enemies... not matter how you tell that to others they wont understand fully... they will just hear stories about how bad this or that country was and hear numbers... it is not the same when some of those numbers are your friends and family...
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hahaha... you are young... you don't understand.... give it time... being told something is not the same as experiencing it for yourself...

    Being told something like what it was like during WWII is nothing like what it is to experience it... the constant stress and fear... the real hatred for your enemies... not matter how you tell that to others they wont understand fully... they will just hear stories about how bad this or that country was and hear numbers... it is not the same when some of those numbers are your friends and family...

    We have no hate for the Germans. They suffered after WW I which led to WW II. France learned from it and we reached them our hand.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:58 pm

    France threatens Turkey with sanctions: ‘No country has any illusions about Erdogan and his regime’

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/france-threatens-turkey-with-sanctions-no-country-has-any-illusions-about-erdogan-and-his-regime/
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:13 pm

    George1 wrote:France threatens Turkey with sanctions: ‘No country has any illusions about Erdogan and his regime’

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/france-threatens-turkey-with-sanctions-no-country-has-any-illusions-about-erdogan-and-his-regime/

    Carrot and stick approach to "diplomacy". NATzO is not really prepared to punish Turkey. It needs it as a strategic asset.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:41 am

    kvs wrote:
    George1 wrote:France threatens Turkey with sanctions: ‘No country has any illusions about Erdogan and his regime’

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/france-threatens-turkey-with-sanctions-no-country-has-any-illusions-about-erdogan-and-his-regime/

    Carrot and stick approach to "diplomacy".   NATzO is not really prepared to punish Turkey.  It needs it as a strategic asset.


    Although I'm not too optimistic, for what's it's worth it's a start. Macron was groomed just like Pussynian as a Soros stooge, but has at least verbally (maybe not actions-wise) shifted from social engineering and Russian demonizing (typical Soros stooge diatribe), to being more hostile to the social engineering and to almost never speaking ill of Russia. He rarely speaks bad about Russia these days, and I guess you have to start from nowhere to get somewhere.  dunno

    I'm not getting my hopes up too soon, at the end of the day actions speak louder than words. He need's to lift a finger and undo the royal fuckup that Sarkozy was responsible for in Libya. France needs to get up off it's ass and help the Egyptians in Libya for starters. Once that happens I'll start to believe, but until then I'm not holding my breath.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:50 am

    I am going to give him some credit for not frothing at the mouth like most of the NATzO Russia haters. But France and Germany
    are still US colonies and the Navalny farce shows it. They actually imposed sanctions without any evidence of anything. Even
    if Navalny got novichoked this does not prove Putin did it since the alleged nerve agent (which is no such thing as it does not
    produce any symptoms of nerve damage) is not a secret Kremlin formula but available in the public domain. So Smerkel and Micron
    needed to prove the actual application of the agent was an action of Putin which clearly they couldn't. To this day they refuse
    to even present their non-evidence at the OPCW.
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    Post  LMFS Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:24 am

    This is like Fox News being pro-Trump and anti-establishment, it is part of the farce to control both sides of the narrative, until the right time comes and masks fall off. Micron is a sock puppet, and if he ever stops being one, I will be happy to swallow my words thumbsup

    kvs and PapaDragon like this post

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:07 pm

    When the EU develops a pair of balls and can have their own opinion without having to ask Washington what to say and how to act then they might be worth talking to, but until then there is no point talking to the west.

    As the article above shows with Erdogan... the west only knows demands with threats and ultimatums like sanctions.

    They don't know what diplomacy even is.

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