Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

In my opinion by far the most useful ship in the Russian navy is the Yassen class. In the history of naval warfare there is very little value in a "second best" surface fleet. The US navy has by far the greatest number of surface warfare combatants and is really the only navy with overwhelming conventional global capabilities. The one area that mitigates that advantage is submarine warfare and that has been true over a century. Kilo and successor classes provide a nice littoral counterforce problem for the US, but in a global respect only nuclear attack subs suffice. That is one reason the US puts such emphasis on its submarine anti-submarine capabilities. In a real world scenario (not showing the flag or for national pride) surface vessels like Slava Class ships have only a first strike value. They would be on the bottom of the ocean pretty quick in any naval conflict with the US via subs or aircraft. Of course, no one here knows just how good Russian subs are when compared to their NATO counterparts.

i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

no money.

navyfield wrote:

George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

no money.

yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive

George1 wrote:

navyfield wrote:

George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

no money.

yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive

Don't bother with navyfield, he so far has not managed to post one worthwhile post.

George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

As I remember from some old edition of MDB, Russian Navy will go for lighter SSN.

George1 wrote:

navyfield wrote:

George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

no money.

yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive

You can pretty much say the same for every warship being built nowadays.

And, personally, I don't think small SSN is a good idea.

Today, almost every new boat is either SSBN, or SSGN/multipurpose. So, for the latter being larger means being more capable   

etaepsilonk wrote:
Today, almost every new boat is either SSBN, or SSGN/multipurpose. So, for the latter being larger means being more capable   

I agree small nuke sub is not needed. Its not like Russias subs has to patrol the worlds oceans and guard carrier groups round the clock 24/7.
If the murican navy could have its own way they would have seawolfs instead of virginias. And everyone would agree that a Seawolf is a much better analogue to Yasen than virginia could ever be.

collegeboy16 wrote:
If the murican navy could have its own way they would have seawolfs instead of virginias. And everyone would agree that a Seawolf is a much better analogue to Yasen than virginia could ever be.

No. In fact, Virginia, all-round, is more capable than Seawolf.

Nice   

Russian Navy by 2020 will add to more than 10 modernized attack submarines

Viktor wrote:Nice   

Russian Navy by 2020 will add to more than 10 modernized attack submarines

So life increased by half would be 12-15 years after modernisation

The exact number is 12 Submarine will be modernised

6 Akula , 4 Oscar 2 , 2 Sierra-2  and 8 new Yasen class.

So if all goes according to plans and funding provided , Russia will have 20 SSN/SSGN by 2020

I just hope after what has happened in Ukraine they dont reduce defence funding for SAP 2020 and SAP 2015-2025 even if they have to eat grass.

Wooooo Interview withCEO CB "Malachite" Vladimir Dorofeev on Severdvinisk/Yasen Sub    


http://www.rg.ru/2014/06/17/yasen-site.html

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2013/08/09/yasen-class_nuclear_attack_submarines_to_give_russia_major_edge_28201.html

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2014/09/29/new_cruise_missiles_for_russian_navy_38645.html

what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

Mike E wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:

Mike E wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

Anything with a 533 mm tube, or so I've heard... Any one else want to add on?

GarryB wrote:

I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

Both can launch SS-N-21 Granat, which is the old nuclear armed Kalibr, which suggests Kalibr can also be carried and fired. It also says it can carry SS-N-15 and SS-N-16... which are 533mm and 650mm calibre ballistic rockets delivering a torpedo or depth charge for ASW use.

That is what I was thinking... If it can fire the Granat, it should be able to fire the very similar Kalibr. - Which would add a ton of flexibility to the subs.

Amazing Photos Of Russia Dismantling An Outdated Nuclear Submarine

How does the Borei class stack up against the American Virginia class and Ohio class submarines?

Are Russian Submarines better than the American ones or is it the other way around?

Also where does the Yasen class submarine rank?

Can some please tell me all the submarines that Russia operates right and what submarines will Russia operate in the future?

Will Russia export any submarines soon?

What future class submarines is Russia planning? I think that the Americans are building new submarines.

par far wrote:How does the Borei class stack up against the American Virginia class and Ohio class submarines?

Are Russian Submarines better than the American ones or is it the other way around?

Also where does the Yasen class submarine rank?

Can some please tell me all the submarines that Russia operates right and what submarines will Russia operate in the future?

Will Russia export any submarines soon?

The Virginia is a completely different kind of submarine, it should be excluded... As should the Yasen, this thread will get too cluttered with two different kinds of submarines. 

No one can really say, though the Borei is a much newer and (currently) more advanced than the Ohio. There is a reason that the US is trying to replace the Ohio-class with a stop-gap ASAP. Borei should be much quieter, but at the same time is holds a smaller number of missiles (albeit more advanced missiles). 

Virginia's are a much more recent development than the Ohio, so the age-gap between that and the Yasen is lesser than the one between the Ohio and Borei. The Virginia is a nice design, and a very potent one, but the Yasen should still be quieter (which is one of the most important aspects of a sub). Another thing to keep in mind is their armaments... Both countries use rather old and dated torpedoes, but Russia's heavy torp has a longer range than its uS counterpart. That being said, both subs' torp armament isn't very great and is pretty similar in general. The one advantage of the Yasen and Russian subs in general, is that they can fire the ridiculously fast Shkval super-captivating torpedo, which doesn't have a US counterpart. As for missiles, I believe that the Virginia is stuck to land-attack Tomahawks while the Yasen can carry multiple Kalibr's (land attack, anti-ship, ASW etc) including the ASW models (which out-range all US and Russian torpedoes). 

As of right now, they are using the...

SSBN's; Borei (2 active though one more is ready), Delta IV (six active), Delta III (3 active, will be outed soon) and one p.941 Typhoon.

SSN's; Akula (9 in service, though this needs to be checked), Oscar (5 active AFAIK), Sierra (3 active, once again, this needs checking), and the Victor (4 active). 

SSK's; Kilo (16?), Kilo 636 (1, but second model is almost ready), and the one Lada (more on the way).

I'm sorry if some of these figures are wrong, it is a royal-pain-in-the-%$@ to find these numbers, at least it is for myself... 

Anyway, in the near-future (decade from now)...

You can expect the left-over Delta III and p.941 Typhoon model(s) to be decommissioned and scrapped at a later date. In their place, their will be the coming Borei's (eight ordered so far).

The Victors will probably be thrown-out (so to speak), with the Sierra's still in service along with most of the Akula's, the phased-out subs will be replaced by the Yasen's (seven ordered, though hopefully some more can be added).

The older Kilo's will be getting the boot, with the 636's and Lada's replacing them (Lada orders are not significant as of right now, though they will grow). - Maybe some 636's (I hope)...

Amur will be exported.

They are exporting the Kilo and 636 Kilo right now, and the Amur orders should be coming in soon, there is also the one Akula SSN under rent (something like that) in India right now.

Russia is already beginning work on the Borei-replacement (long ways away), the Yasen-replacement is unknown... Finally, the Lada and maybe an upgrade of it will occur in large numbers. The US is only working on a cheaper (and much less effective) Virginia-class variant (for land-attack, hence the downgrades) and the stop-gap Ohio replacement (which should be fine).

There are in reality only several 971s (Akula) active. The state of the fleet is terrible. Several are nominally active but not really ready to go to sea. 3-4 active at best today I would estimate.

As for 945s (Sierra), only the Nizhn Nogorod is active. Though the Pskov is on factory trials after being repaired, so it should be back in service soon.

Only 1 RTMK is in service, though two others might rejoin the fleet if Nerpa can get their shit together. The last (Petrazavodsk) has been essentially a donor vessel for some time.

5 BDRMs are in service, Yekaterinburg is not back in fleet service yet.
Dmitry Donskoy is only a test vessel, not a true combat ship anymore.

As for actual characteristics and comparisons, beside "hard" info (missile types, number, age, etc) don't expect to find anything serious online.

TR1 wrote:As for actual characteristics and comparisons, beside "hard" info (missile types, number, age, etc) don't expect to find anything serious online.

Agreed, you (par far) shouldn't expect to get much in terms of good opinions on a matter such as this one. Many important factors of all the mentioned-submarines are secretive, and if they aren't, it is still a PITA to find info on them. This site; http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/ has the best (easy to find) info on Russian subs, along with a bunch of different navy-related news and articles etc. On US subs, you won't be able to find the details on just about anything on their subs, as the US Navy is extremely secretive about the details and is often conservative with their capabilities (to keep the "enemy" from gaining an advantage). That being said, some of their systems are public and can be found anywhere on the internet.