[Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

Cyrus the great wrote:

Just how similar is the armour of the T-15 to the T-14? As I understand it, the T-15 uses the same hull as the T-14 Armata except that it has its engine in the front - which would make it the best protected IFV right now if that's the case. The only way it could be improved is if it had a 60/57 mm hyper-velocity gun and two 23mm autocannons to accompany the Kornet EM missiles.  

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Just how similar is the armour of the T-15 to the T-14? As I understand it, the T-15 uses the same hull as the T-14 Armata except that it has its engine in the front - which would make it the best protected IFV right now if that's the case. The only way it could be improved is if it had a 60/57 mm hyper-velocity gun and two 23mm autocannons to accompany the Kornet EM missiles.  

Hull should be identical so in terms of physical protection it should the same. 23mm caliber is slowly fading from service so i dont think they would develop new platfom featuring that caliber. And two cannons would just make ammunition waste an issue and logistics would get messier.

57mm gun will come in future but from what i could figure it will be used on lighter tracked platfrom K25 and there will be AA variant.

Cyrus the great wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Just how similar is the armour of the T-15 to the T-14? As I understand it, the T-15 uses the same hull as the T-14 Armata except that it has its engine in the front - which would make it the best protected IFV right now if that's the case. The only way it could be improved is if it had a 60/57 mm hyper-velocity gun and two 23mm autocannons to accompany the Kornet EM missiles.  

Hull should be identical so in terms of physical protection it should the same. 23mm caliber is slowly fading from service so i dont think they would develop new platfom featuring that caliber. And two cannons would just make ammunition waste an issue and logistics would get messier.

57mm gun will come in future but from what i could figure it will be used on lighter tracked platfrom K25 and there will be AA variant.

Excellent! Thanks, bro. I prefer the 30mm to the 23mm but it limits the amount of ammo that can be carried, and if the 23mm was just a secondary armament, I don't think that its ammo would be used all that much. I've never served so I don't really know.

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Just how similar is the armour of the T-15 to the T-14? As I understand it, the T-15 uses the same hull as the T-14 Armata except that it has its engine in the front - which would make it the best protected IFV right now if that's the case. The only way it could be improved is if it had a 60/57 mm hyper-velocity gun and two 23mm autocannons to accompany the Kornet EM missiles.  

Hull should be identical so in terms of physical protection it should the same. 23mm caliber is slowly fading from service so i dont think they would develop new platfom featuring that caliber. And two cannons would just make ammunition waste an issue and logistics would get messier.

57mm gun will come in future but from what i could figure it will be used on lighter tracked platfrom K25 and there will be AA variant.

Excellent! Thanks, bro. I prefer the 30mm to the 23mm but it limits the amount of ammo that can be carried, and if the 23mm was just a secondary armament, I don't think that its ammo would be used all that much. I've never served so I don't really know.

If there was already 57mm gun on it, there is higher chance of it having HMG + 30mm grenade launcher than another cannon, or maybe slaved 30mm cannon like 100/30 are on BMP-3/BMD-4.

max steel wrote:SDB can easily take down T-72 tanks.

Cyrus the great wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Just how similar is the armour of the T-15 to the T-14? As I understand it, the T-15 uses the same hull as the T-14 Armata except that it has its engine in the front - which would make it the best protected IFV right now if that's the case. The only way it could be improved is if it had a 60/57 mm hyper-velocity gun and two 23mm autocannons to accompany the Kornet EM missiles.  

Hull should be identical so in terms of physical protection it should the same. 23mm caliber is slowly fading from service so i dont think they would develop new platfom featuring that caliber. And two cannons would just make ammunition waste an issue and logistics would get messier.

57mm gun will come in future but from what i could figure it will be used on lighter tracked platfrom K25 and there will be AA variant.

Excellent! Thanks, bro. I prefer the 30mm to the 23mm but it limits the amount of ammo that can be carried, and if the 23mm was just a secondary armament, I don't think that its ammo would be used all that much. I've never served so I don't really know.

If there was already 57mm gun on it, there is higher chance of it having HMG + 30mm grenade launcher than another cannon, or maybe slaved 30mm cannon like 100/30 are on BMP-3/BMD-4.

I'll be more than satisfied if they put a 57mm hyper-velocity gun on the T-15, but a 30mm sure would be nice. I just don't know if there would be enough space for 30mm rounds in a turret already hosting 57mm rounds.

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

Just how similar is the armour of the T-15 to the T-14? As I understand it, the T-15 uses the same hull as the T-14 Armata except that it has its engine in the front - which would make it the best protected IFV right now if that's the case. The only way it could be improved is if it had a 60/57 mm hyper-velocity gun and two 23mm autocannons to accompany the Kornet EM missiles.  

Hull should be identical so in terms of physical protection it should the same. 23mm caliber is slowly fading from service so i dont think they would develop new platfom featuring that caliber. And two cannons would just make ammunition waste an issue and logistics would get messier.

57mm gun will come in future but from what i could figure it will be used on lighter tracked platfrom K25 and there will be AA variant.

Excellent! Thanks, bro. I prefer the 30mm to the 23mm but it limits the amount of ammo that can be carried, and if the 23mm was just a secondary armament, I don't think that its ammo would be used all that much. I've never served so I don't really know.

If there was already 57mm gun on it, there is higher chance of it having HMG + 30mm grenade launcher than another cannon, or maybe slaved 30mm cannon like 100/30 are on BMP-3/BMD-4.

I'll be more than satisfied if they put a 57mm hyper-velocity gun on the T-15, but a 30mm sure would be nice. I just don't know if there would be enough space for 30mm rounds in a turret already hosting 57mm rounds.

Well 57mm guns shall be stored inside the hull i belive and i imagine secondary weapon would have shells stored externally. I am just speculating ofc.

max steel wrote:SDB can easily take down T-72 tanks.

Mindstorm wrote:

max steel wrote:SDB can easily take down T-72 tanks.

This acronym should stand for ?  Small Diameter Bomb ?

If it is so :

1) I truly do not understand what should be the point of this note in the particular debate in course.

2) SDBs also if delivered in enormous amount would have a very hard time to incapacitate even only one T-72A (unless of course we talk of a motionless tank ,at example one in long term repair)


The GPS aided gliding bomb in question has is niche of employment as weapon against small size not reinforced fixed structures ; moreover not only its very low speed and dependence from satellite in-flight correction render its kill chain one of the most frail among any relatively modern air to ground ammunitions ,both against EW and SHORAD, but its low potential warhead and CEP (in the same league of JDAM and similar) render it, even in its latest iteration with terminal IR homing, totally unsuited for the engagement even only of unarmoured semi-mobile systems (such as legacy SAM adn radar system with transition times ij the order of 30-40 minutes) except some random target of opportunity.

Against heavy armoured targets ,such as MBTs, those negative features are even more exacerbated because the range of suppression of the detonation of a non HEAT warhead such as that of a SDB would be barely perceived by even a vastly outdated specimen.

This was one of the main reasons for the horrible attrition results achieved by the fixed wing branch of Coaltion Air Forces ,with theirs JDAM, against Iraqi armoured formations.      


 

Zivo wrote:

Re. the 57mm. On the current module, the ammo is stored externally, with a small column that protrudes into the PAX compartment. Obviously this is Kurganets, but it should be similar on the T-15.

It's to early to say anything definitive about the 57mm weapon system, the ammo storage situation could go either way. It could have just the small external magazine, a large internal magazine like the older 57mm proposals, or maybe a hybrid solution with the small external mag plus bolt in armored box that sits off to the side of the PAX compartment and automatically feeds ammo through the ceiling to reload the ready-to-fire external magazine. Notice the 100/30 module uses a kind of revolving door tunnel system, that could also be an option to increase ammo count on the 57m

Militarov wrote:

Zivo wrote:

Re. the 57mm. On the current module, the ammo is stored externally, with a small column that protrudes into the PAX compartment. Obviously this is Kurganets, but it should be similar on the T-15.

It's to early to say anything definitive about the 57mm weapon system, the ammo storage situation could go either way. It could have just the small external magazine, a large internal magazine like the older 57mm proposals, or maybe a hybrid solution with the small external mag plus bolt in armored box that sits off to the side of the PAX compartment and automatically feeds ammo through the ceiling to reload the ready-to-fire external magazine. Notice the 100/30 module uses a kind of revolving door tunnel system, that could also be an option to increase ammo count on the 57m

External magazines are quite small compared to what i expect from IFV armed with 57mm gun, so i think they will have hull penetrating ammo bustle. Especially if they plan on using it as secondary AA system.

Werewolf wrote:T-14-152 the modern ISU-152

Do not forget that major work was carried out by national experts and in the other direction - the creation of a gas turbine power plant, significantly increases the speed armored cars. Experts note that GTD implementation of this technique in a difficult task, however, with the right level of attention this issue is quite capable to solve.

As experts explain, GTE should be further developed for the power supply system to the specific fuel consumption was comparable, and was lower than the diesel powerplant. It is also possible adaptation of another type of power plant - a hybrid engine. By the way, this technology is already implemented in the metal - experimental armored car "Krymsk" based on the BTR-90 already uses a hybrid propulsion system with a specially designed electric transmission.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgurkhan.blogspot.com%2F2016%2F04%2Fblog-post_33.html&edit-text=&act=url

Werewolf wrote:T-14-152 the modern ISU-152

JSC "Instrument Design Bureau" together with the designers of the universal combat platform "Armata" started to develop a universal missile system capable of performing the task of destroying armored vehicles, manpower low-flying enemy targets, as reported by its own power military-informant.com portal.

The new missile system placed on the crawler combat vehicle Armata will combine the capabilities of operational-tactical complex, multiple rocket launchers and anti-tank complex. On the basis of the chassis will be available with a universal launcher class "surface-to-surface" missiles and "surface-to-air" in special military transport containers.

The composition of promising missile system will include armored launcher and machine guidance system and reconnaissance on the battlefield. A fundamentally new missile system will be able to interact with all modern weapons and obtain intelligence information from aerial surveillance, ground-based reconnaissance and other combat systems on the battlefield.

The new missile system based on the Armata platform designed to engage single and multiple targets, including tanks, engineering and fortifications, surface targets and low-speed flight vehicles at distances up to 145 km. It is assumed that the Ammunition of the new missile system will be about 20 ready-to-launch missiles for various purposes.

Gur Khan: predictability. Speech in this case, all of the same contract for 100 units, as previously reported. Some felt that the contract relates only to the T-14. But this is not the case. It applies to all cars on the "armatovskoy" platform: tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and ARV. According to my estimates personally, I ordered something about ARV 10 T-16, T-60 tanks and 14 BMP-30, T-15. Naturally, there is not exactly 100 cars, and a little more - and still BMP probably go battalion sets.

Zivo wrote:http://military-informant.com/army/na-baze-universalnoy-boevoy-platformyi-armata-sozdayut-novyiy-universlanyiy-raketnyiy-kompleks.html

JSC "Instrument Design Bureau" together with the designers of the universal combat platform "Armata" started to develop a universal missile system capable of performing the task of destroying armored vehicles, manpower low-flying enemy targets, as reported by its own power military-informant.com portal.

The new missile system placed on the crawler combat vehicle Armata will combine the capabilities of operational-tactical complex, multiple rocket launchers and anti-tank complex. On the basis of the chassis will be available with a universal launcher class "surface-to-surface" missiles and "surface-to-air" in special military transport containers.

The composition of promising missile system will include armored launcher and machine guidance system and reconnaissance on the battlefield. A fundamentally new missile system will be able to interact with all modern weapons and obtain intelligence information from aerial surveillance, ground-based reconnaissance and other combat systems on the battlefield.

The new missile system based on the Armata platform designed to engage single and multiple targets, including tanks, engineering and fortifications, surface targets and low-speed flight vehicles at distances up to 145 km. It is assumed that the Ammunition of the new missile system will be about 20 ready-to-launch missiles for various purposes.

Since it's KBP, and given the wide target envelope, I'm assuming they're referring to Hermes.

magnumcromagnon wrote:......................

I don't know how accurate that image is but if I recall right the max range of ground based (with the additional booster rocket stage) was 100 km not 145 km. It could be that they improved the range of Hermes, but 145 km sounds similar to the range of Tornado-S which would be much longer/larger than the munitions shown in the graphic. But at the same time I've never heard of MLRS capable of engaging low-flying speed aircraft, so this may actually be an improved Hermes.

.................................

medo wrote:http://gurkhan.blogspot.si/2016/04/blog-post_25.html

Gur Khan: predictability. Speech in this case, all of the same contract for 100 units, as previously reported. Some felt that the contract relates only to the T-14. But this is not the case. It applies to all cars on the "armatovskoy" platform: tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and ARV. According to my estimates personally, I ordered something about ARV 10 T-16, T-60 tanks and 14 BMP-30, T-15. Naturally, there is not exactly 100 cars, and a little more - and still BMP probably go battalion sets.

It seems order for 100 Armatas is not only for T-14 tanks. They ordered 60 tanks T-14, 30 heavy BMPs T-15 and 10 BREM T-16.