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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #13

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:20 am

    Hehehehehe... 24 launchers means 96 missiles ready to fire... but also supported by other systems.

    Regarding a 300 aircraft attack by Israel... why would anyone think the Israelis would send 300 plus pilots to die just to take out S-300 systems?

    Second these systems are now being connected to the Russian system so add S-400 and S-300V4 missiles into the mix if it comes to a 300 aircraft attack plus land attack missiles I doubt Russia would just sit by and watch...

    Even if only half the S-300s work as advertised that is 48 shot down Israeli aircraft... a fairly significant chunk of their Air Force... I really doubt they would be happy or willing to do that just to damage the Syrian Air Defence Forces reputation... especially if it includes F-35s.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:Even if only half the S-300s work as advertised that is 48 shot down Israeli aircraft... a fairly significant chunk of their Air Force... I really doubt they would be happy or willing to do that just to damage the Syrian Air Defence Forces reputation... especially if it includes F-35s.
    Lockheed execs probably not that comfortable about risking their whole program because of Israel being so easy on the trigger, for Russians there is also prestige at risk but at least their latest domestic technology is kept out of the equation. I guess talks will be held with US about using or not the F-35 and in what conditions, if one of those is shot down by a relatively modest S-300 and gets to be known it could have consequences...
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    Vann7


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    Post  Vann7 Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hehehehehe... 24 launchers means 96 missiles ready to fire... but also supported by other systems.

    Regarding a 300 aircraft attack by Israel... why would anyone think the Israelis would send 300 plus pilots to die just to take out S-300 systems?

    Second these systems are now being connected to the Russian system so add S-400 and S-300V4 missiles into the mix if it comes to a 300 aircraft attack plus land attack missiles I doubt Russia would just sit by and watch...

    Even if only half the S-300s work as advertised that is 48 shot down Israeli aircraft... a fairly significant chunk of their Air Force... I really doubt they would be happy or willing to do that just to damage the Syrian Air Defence Forces reputation... especially if it includes F-35s.

    I was using the example of 300 hundred planes , just for illustration purposes.. don't think Israel will send even
    30 planes in an attack to Syria if they are armed with S-300.. If Israel wants to continue escalating , they however
    the most likely way of attacking Syria will be using kamikazi drones.. something similar of what they did to the Pantsir system that was off ,when attacked.. Small waves of kamikazi drones in the hundreds guided by inertial navigation could be used. NATO is developing the concept of mass waves of tiny drone attacks with artificial intelligence. .and so Russia will need strong Electronic warfare to counter such attacks.. to block TV ,radio guidance
    of any drones and damage drones ,without they reach their target.

    If Syria will have 96 missiles ready to launch ,that will be a really strong deterrence.. specially if they used offensively , and additional short air defenses ,that Russia government told will provide like Pantsirs and TOR and EW ,will be used for countering attacks.

    if you add Syrian airforce , have like ~10 mig-29 SM combat planes with upgraded electronics and weapons.
    each one armed with 4 AA missiles..
    Then we could be speaking about ~140 Air to Air missiles missiles ,that israel airforce will need to run away and
    learn how evade.

    If Russia was forced to interfere and use its base to hit Israel airforce , then it could be 200 to 250 missiles..
    Truly Israel if try to pick a fight with Russia will end without an Airforce in less than a couple of hours.. Smile
    But i don't think they will be that stupid... they for sure will not like to lose the entire airforce trying to defeat S-300s..


    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:01 pm

    Look forward to hearing about a few Israeli F-35s crashing due to technical faults... there is no way Syrian Air Defence forces or Russian SAM systems could be effective...

    Why start telling the truth now?

    I mean the Israelis claimed their F-16s were in Israeli airspace when the Il-20 was shot down and that the Syrian AD never even detected them and only opened fire after their munitions exploded on target and they just fired wildly in any direction... they were attacking targets in the north of Syria remember...
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    Post  Vann7 Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:47 am

    GarryB wrote:Look forward to hearing about a few Israeli F-35s crashing due to technical faults... there is no way Syrian Air Defence forces or Russian SAM systems could be effective...

    Why start telling the truth now?

    I mean the Israelis claimed their F-16s were in Israeli airspace when the Il-20 was shot down and that the Syrian AD never even detected them and only opened fire after their munitions exploded on target and they just fired wildly in any direction... they were attacking targets in the north of Syria remember...

    They already claimed that.. that got damaged one F-35 because of a "bird" . the Syrian army however told a different story ,that they damaged the plane with an S-200 missile.


    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/did-russian-missile-really-hit-israeli-f-35-22926




    did a Russian anti-aircraft missile hit one of Israel’s new F-35 stealth fighters?

    Pro-Russian media are claiming that an Israeli F-35I was hit and damaged by a Russian-made S-200 surface-to-air missile during an Israeli air strike in Syria earlier this month. Israel says one of its F-35s was damaged—after colliding with a bird.

    The story begins on October 16, when Israel announced that its aircraft had struck a Syrian SAM battery near Damascus that had fired two hours earlier on Israeli reconnaissance planes flying over Lebanon. The attack damaged the missile battery, and no Israeli aircraft were hit, according to Israel. Coincidentally or not, the incident happened the same day that Russia’s defense minister, Sergei Shoigu, arrived in Israel for talks with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman.

    Recommended: Could the Battleship Make a Comeback? ​

    However, Southfront.org , a website that covers the Russian military and its intervention in the Syrian Civil War, suggested a different story. “According to the available information, the Syrian Defense Forces used a S-200 missile against the Israeli warplane,” Southfront claimed.


    Recommended: 5 Worst Generals in U.S. History

    Related

    Did a Russian Made Missile Really Strike a New Israeli F-35 Stealth Fighter?

    Russia vs. the F-35: Did a Russian Made Missile Strike One of Israel's New F-35s?

    Did a Russian Made Anti-Aircraft Missile Really Hit an F-35?
    Southfront could not resist pointing out that a much-vaunted F-35 stealth fighter had been hit by a missile that dates back to the 1960s. “This Soviet-made missile is the most advanced long range anti-aircraft system operated by the Syrian military. Even in this case, it’s old-fashioned in terms of modern warfare.”

    However, the evidence cited by Southfront seems rather tenuous. Hours after the Israeli military announced the strike on the Syrian missile battery, Israeli media reported that an Israeli F-35 had been damaged by a bird strike two weeks before (Google translation here ). The plane reportedly landed safely, but the Israeli Air Force did admit that it wasn’t sure whether the plane will fly again. Israel has taken delivery of only seven F-35Is so far, with a total of fifty on order.


    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:30 pm

    US fighters have tested vs. the Ukrainian S-300
    http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/ussr/ukraine/11-10-2018/141769-ukraine_s_300-0/

    But will the Russian S-400 linked to Syrian S-300 detect them?
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:31 pm

    as mentioned million times before hand on twitter and rest:

    Ukraine doesn't have anything newer than a 90's style S-300.  I believe all their S-300's are PS at best.  So not even close to same system.

    People really do believe for some reason that as if Russia doesn't think of all these situations prior?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:17 am

    I don't think Ukrainian S-300, even if older, r that different from those which came out later:
    S-300PS, S-300PMU, S-300V and others. Only six systems have been repaired since 2004; as a result only 40% of Ukrainian S-300 systems were in good condition prior to 2014. The crisis with Russia resulted in a program of accelerated modernisation, with at least 4 batteries overhauled in the period 2014-15. 34 launchers remained in the Crimea after 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea.
    Greece- S-300 PMU1 system acquired after the Cyprus Missile Crisis and operated by HAF on Crete consisting of 1 Battalions/4 batteries/16 launchers / 80 missiles.

    A battery of Russian S-300V4 air defense missile launchers has been transported to Syria, Russia’s Defense Ministry said in a statement. Its stated purpose is to defend a Russian naval base and warships. Following the downing of Russian Il-20 aircraft in Syria in September 2018, for which Russia held Israel responsible, defense minister Sergei Shoigu on 24 September said that within two weeks, the Syrian army would receive S-300 systems. The precise modification was not specified, though the stated range of the system was 250 km. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system#Operators_and_other_versions
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:16 am

    They already claimed that.. that got damaged one F-35 because of a "bird" . the Syrian army however told a different story ,that they damaged the plane with an S-200 missile

    If the S-200 had actually hit the F-35 there would not be very much left... S-200 is a huge missile designed to bring down bombers and large heavy aircraft, so it has a very big warhead.

    Against a fighter that is manouvering hard it would be difficult to get a solid hit, but they are not claiming to have destroyed it... just damaged it... which I think it more realistic than some claims from Israelis.

    I don't think Ukrainian S-300, even if older, r that different from those which came out later

    Don't mean to sound rude but what you think is not so important as what the actual facts are.

    Over the lifetime of a weapon system, you upgrade and adapt the design to match the enemies systems they are supposed to engage...

    When the Ukrainian S-300s were made there were no F-35s... the difference in performance for the S-300PMU, PMU1, and PMU2... even just missile flight range has been rather dramatic... PMU, 1, 2, range numbers respectively are 7-75km range, 5-150km range, and 3-200km range... target speed has changed less.... 50-1,200m/s, 0-2,800m/s and 0-2,800m/s.

    By the information you posted the Greek system is actually rather better than the Ukrainian system...

    But as I keep saying... it is the IADS that will actually revolutionise the performance of the SyAD... Integrating all sorts of radars and linking to the Russian network will give them a much better view of the airspace...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:20 am

    Maybe they r bluffing, but they did exercise against the Greek S-300s & sound confident about dealing with the Syrian S-300s.
    The Syrians didn't detect/discriminate several F-16s against the IL-20 that they should have known about & were not supposed to shot down.
    It's nothing new: 11 y. ago, they didn't detect Israeli raid on a NK built nuclear reactor:
    Israel’s American-made F-15 and F-16 jets enjoyed protection by sophisticated electronic jamming that blinded Syria’s air defenses, and they had no trouble dropping tons of explosives on the target and confirming visually that it had been flattened. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/20/inside-israels-secret-raid-on-syrias-nuclear-reactor-217663

    If they can avoid being detected & targeted again, the S-300/400 kill chain will be broken.
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    Post  Vann7 Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:39 am



    US and NATO will have very BIG major interest in testing the capabilities of S-300s in Syria ,but also S-400s even if that cost them to sacrifice a dozen of F-15 or F-16 planes.. Because learning how they operate could allow them to
    develop electronic jamming against it for NATO.. To understand what communication use to engage a plane..
    SO they will have very big reasons to try and see... they could even operate a remote controlled plane.. and see..
    So i can see more hostilities of israel in near future. albeit from longer distances.
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    Post  BKP Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:18 pm

    More postings of "what ifs". Once US/Iz manage to kick-start their constantly malfunctioning F-35s again, let them cease their histrionics and take their shot. Until then all the endless speculation is like playing verbal roshambo on a merry-go-round with an 8 year old.

    Of course attacking the new Syrian ADS will be attacking Russians as well, directly and deliberately this time. So a possible riposte will be return fire crashing into Israeli bases. I don't mind personally. And If they want to get really meshuggah, maybe the world will be done an immense improvement, ending with that whole apartheid serpents' nest cauterized.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:57 pm

    10 facts about the downed IL-20 in Syria, finally determining the culprit
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:11 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:10 facts about the downed IL-20 in Syria, finally determining the culprit
    That's in Russian. Could you please give us non Russian speakers a synopsis of the article?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:47 pm

    Pl. use the google translation, it's long & I don't have the time to do this 4 u.
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:36 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:US fighters have tested vs. the Ukrainian S-300
    http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/ussr/ukraine/11-10-2018/141769-ukraine_s_300-0/

    But will the Russian S-400 linked to Syrian S-300 detect them?


    Russia told will share radars information between their military base and Syria military base,
    to avoid friendly fire.. So effectively Syria will see all ,that Russia military bases in Latakia and in Moscow can see..
    from their airspace.  This means that the Syrian army don't need to turn on their radars at all ,they can launch
    missiles ,chase Israel planes and remain hidden all the time ,because they don't need to illuminate now Israel planes , since they will share information with Russia over radars.. in fact the Syrian army not even need to push the button.. If Russia fully automate and network their air defenses with the Syrian ones.. as i think i read they told will do ,then Russia can even operate and control Syria S-300s defenses..

    So the only "S-300" that Israel will need to bomb are the launchers..(and not the radars) which will work in passive mode.. and will not need S-300s radars at all to illuminate Israel planes, they can use S-400 radars ,that Russia use ,if Russia do what they told will do ,of networking the defenses.  in Syria..

    1)So Syrian army will see in their Panels of airspace the same that Russia can see.. and russia will see what Syrian army can see.
    2)Israel will not be able to know the positions of S-300s ,using their planes electronics.. they will need satellite
    information and human spies near Syria bases,but also  drones..
    3)To end Syria capabilities to hit at Israel planes ,they will need to bomb Russia military base and take
    down S-400 radars.

    So in short Israel will be in major Trouble. They can take the risk of going close to Syria attack and get their planes shot down.. or they can launch missiles from very long distances.. to avoid Syria S-300s missiles.

    This does not means S-300s cannot be defeated.. anything can.. but only that things will be way
    more complicated for Israel ,for doing precision attacks . while evading S-300s and Electronic warfare. and adversaries airforces.

    Tactics i think Israel will try to use..
    1)Swarms of Kamikazi drones attacks as they did to the Pantsir but in the couple of hundreds.

    2) Cruise missiles from beyond 200km distance from Submarines

    3) Ballistic attack from ground in israel to Syria s-300s locations.

    4)or just skirmish missions with their planes hit and Run.. from far distances.

    5)Use their submarines to launch ballistic attacks..

    6) Super long range artillery.. ie.. US have 300km rocket artillery ,that they could be tempted to use
    against Syria..last but not least.. the biggest problem for Syria could be ...

    US airforce.if they are allowed to fly over Syria freely and can use their planes ,their spy planes or awacs  ,to help israel hit on their targets. with precision.. So Russia will need to interfere with NATO communications and signals too.. jam it.. so they can't provide guidance to israel to where to bomb in Syria.

    So Russia electronic warfare will be very important as much as the S-300  to blind US and Israel share of Ground and AIR information.. The best way to protect Syria is a full no fly zone to enforce it also with airforce ,so to push enemy planes farther , at least 100km away of S-300s positions.. but ideally 150km or 200km.declared by Russia on NATO and Israel and to shut down any planes that enters n this zones.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:36 am

    The Syrians didn't detect/discriminate several F-16s against the IL-20 that they should have known about & were not supposed to shot down.
    It's nothing new: 11 y. ago, they didn't detect Israeli raid on a NK built nuclear reactor:

    They did detect the F-16s... that is what they were shooting at.

    That incident they were using S-200s with S-200 radars and management equipment.

    The S-300s they are sending them have better radars and they will be linking them into the Russian AD network... it was the Russian radar information that showed what actually happened including what the four F-16s did and what the Il-20 did... so I rather doubt the Israelis have nothing to worry about.

    They can practise with the Ukraine... they have the ancient S-300PMU, and Greece has a similar system... the Syrians are getting S-300PMU2, and they are getting linked in to the Russian network so their view of the airspace should be pretty damn good.

    I can practise playing tennis against the kid down the street, but that doesn't mean I am ready to take on a professional tennis player...

    If they can avoid being detected & targeted again, the S-300/400 kill chain will be broken.

    With new S-300PMU2 missiles and radars and an IADS setup that is linked to the Russian network that includes S-300V4 and S-400 what do you think are their chances of slipping through?

    Su-35s have chased off F-22s... how do you chase something off if you don't know it is there?

    10 facts about the downed Il-20 in Syria, finally determining the culprit
    Policy
    Chronology, consequences and little-known details


    Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2499651.html
    Any use of the materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to the IA REGNUM.

    The fall of the aircraft of radio-electronic intelligence Il-20 VKS of Russia, unlike many other incidents of this kind, was not covered by a veil of secrecy. On the contrary, this situation immediately had two opposite points of view: the version of what happened on the part of the Israeli air force and the arguments set out by the Russian side.

    Israel claimed that it was " forced "to strike at the targets of Hezbollah and Iran in Syria, because they threatened the internal security of the country. Therefore, according to tel Aviv, all further events are the fault of the parties that forced the state to commit an attack.

    Russia, came up with a much more significant position-it was Israel that created a situation in which the conditions for the catastrophe and the death of Russian soldiers. And it really is…

    Of course, both approaches can not be correct at the same time, so the true conclusions are wiser to build on the facts known to date.

    Fact one

    Around each Russian military base in Syria (since 2015) installed covert 60-kilometer "exclusion zone". Behind the scenes they are the radius of the Russian military, special forces, patrols and other forces that provide protection. In addition, it is in this zone that various types of aircraft, including civil ones, regularly land.

    The fact that the second

    According to the agreement with Israel, Russia turned a blind eye to the work of the Israeli air force in the skies of Syria only on condition that these actions will not create a threat to the military and civilian contingent of our country, and will be committed after an early warning.

    The fact that the third

    Israel violated all the points of the above-mentioned Treaty, because the warning was not only one minute before the direct attack, but also totally untrue. On the line of communication Colonel of the Israeli air force said that the attacks will be carried out in the North of Syria, while the f-16 was heading to the Western part of the country.

    Fact four

    By the time of the beginning of the illegal Israeli operation, in Idlib (Northern Syria) was a Russian aircraft Il-20 with soldiers on Board. As soon as the headquarters of the Russian aerospace forces received the Israeli message, Il-20 was ordered to go to the West, that is, to land at the airport in Latakia. At that time, no one assumed that Israel had openly deceived the Russian command, and in fact, the Il-20 is not moving from the zone of the operation, but directly into it.

    The fact of the fifth

    At this time, Israeli aircraft, instead of flying to the North, at a very low altitude flew around Syria from the West, first hiding behind a French frigate, and then made a large-scale attack from the area of Cyprus.

    The fact of the sixth

    The surprise attack on Syrian territory by the Israeli air force from the West was the cause of the barely restrained anger of our military not only because of the fact of deception. It was in the fact that Israel chose a place of striking objects located just 25 kilometers from the military base Hamim. That is, in the same 60-kilometer "exclusion zone", where it could be Russian soldiers.

    The fact of the seventh

    Il-20 was in the air over Idlib before the attack of the Israeli air force. Therefore, not in the capabilities of Russia was in principle " not to raise." On the contrary, it was because of the Israeli military's attempts to mislead the Russian side that the intelligence officer was ordered to "return to the base". The base was in the West of the country, for landing it was necessary to turn over the Mediterranean sea, but the crew did not know that it was there soon and will begin to fire at Israeli aircraft.

    The fact of the eighth

    5 minutes after the" warning " F-16 Israeli air force released on Syria the first planning bombs (with a range of about 90 km). After 8 minutes, bombs hit the target. Only then, 13 minutes after the deceptive warning, Syrian air defense calculations realized that the attack is made in the West of the country, not in the North.

    The fact of the ninth

    Apparently, and given the fact that the Syrian air defense will now be connected to a single fire control system, the decision to attack Israeli aircraft was taken by the Syrian armed forces independently. That is, without the approval of the command of the armed forces. Contrary to popular belief, Russia does not control every step of the Syrian army. The air defense of Syria has its command, and this was not the first time when the complexes under the control of the Syrians inflicted mass attacks on the aircraft of the Israeli air force. Actually, that is why we are not limited to the supply of s-300 systems, and expanded them to provide EW and ACS.

    The fact of the tenth

    C-200 and other complexes of the Soviet period practically do not see the Israeli modification of the F-16 in jamming mode. That is why the air defense of Syria were always forced to make mass launches. In this case, the Syrian air defense launched about 27 missiles towards the targets.

    Further-well known. The electronic imprint of the Il-20 (built on the basis of civil Il-18) is two orders of magnitude (that is, a hundred times) higher than the imprint of the F-16. As a result, the Israeli air force fighter" covered " with our aircraft transferred the missile targeting to the Russian aircraft. It can not be excluded that this was done by the pilot not specifically, especially given the fact that the F-16 really had the possibility of guaranteed departure from the rocket and without such steps. However, it all came together in this way.

    Conclusion

    The underlying cause of the tragedy was Israel's illegal actions to attack Syrian territory. The fact of deception of the General staff of Russia by false giving of coordinates. Violation of the agreement to prevent the start of the operation for a certain time. Attack 25 kilometers from the air base Hamim and, finally, the bombardment of objects in the work area of the "staff" of the Russian airbase.

    From the beginning to the end the culprit is obvious.

    Perhaps if the official delegation of Israel, which had arrived in Russia at the time, had recognized the fact that it had endangered the lives of Russian soldiers and taken other unfriendly steps, the result would have been different. But since the meeting claimed that Israel "did the right thing", it became clear that such steps could be repeated in the future. That is why the measures taken by the Russian side to neutralize a similar situation in the future turned out to be much tougher than those expected.

    Right now, Russia is creating a multi-layered air defense system in Syria. The main element of the new defence is the upgraded S — 300 systems. Hereinafter, the automatic centralized control system. Then electronic warfare systems. And we are talking about EW systems of various classes, from the Directors of interference of satellite orientation (blocking GPS and missile guidance systems), to local and target Directors of interference of any objects of movement in the air.

    S-300, depending on the echelon, in turn, will cover the "Shells", "tor", "Beech" and so on. So, it is already clear that this system plans to become the best in the middle East.

    Russia does not plan to take full control over the air defense of Syria, in order to leave for itself the possibility of a political maneuver in case of its targeted use. And therefore completely eliminate further attacks, she can't. Nevertheless, the measures taken radically increase the risks for any aggressor, because the defense of this type allows not only to shoot down missiles and platforms on approach to the target, but also to divert from the course already released "smart" ammunition. Jamming their guidance, to make failures in the operation of, disable, plant, or disposed of. The probability that the aggressor will reach the target is sharply reduced, and the chance that the attack aircraft will be destroyed even after landing at the home airfield is growing.

    In addition, it is almost impossible to destroy one or more s-300 launchers without destroying other systems covering It. At least from the air. The only chance for any country to break through the system being built in Syria is to destroy all multi-layered defense at once. Such hypothetically possible, for example, in the case of a massive attack. However, it is not feasible in practice.

    The fact is that in this case, defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said directly: "Russia will not allow to destroy the defense being built in Syria and in cases of such attempts will be forced to intervene personally."

    Thus, the attempt to ignore the opinion of Moscow, which caused the catastrophe with the Russian Il-20, led to the diametrically opposite result. Israeli and NATO air force drones, previously flying freely in the Syrian sky, are no longer able to do this. Three divisions of the modernized complexes, which is almost 24 s-300 launchers, have already been transferred to the air defense of the SAR.

    Electronic warfare systems as they are received are increasingly jamming GPS signals, military negotiations and other guidance, control and communication systems. ACS is connected to a growing number of existing air defense systems in Syria, and the borders of the Republic and the lives of Russian soldiers are becoming more protected.

    At the same time, it is important to understand that first of all, Israel's unfriendly steps allowed Russia to start building a new defense system not so much against the air force of this country, but against the actions of the US and NATO countries. This means that two small warehouses, which with the least losses wanted to destroy tel Aviv, closed Washington and the North Atlantic Alliance unhindered access to the Syrian sky.

    The victim of the Russian military did not remain unanswered, and perhaps it was she who saved the lives of many others.


    Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2499651.html
    Any use of the materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to the IA REGNUM.

    Pretty clear... it was Israels fault.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:14 pm

    5)Use their submarines to launch ballistic attacks..
    The Israeli SSKs don't have BMs, only CMs for land attack. Please try to avoid repeating the same things over & over in ur posts, it makes them long & boring!
    They did detect the F-16s... that is what they were shooting at.
    From the quoted article:
    C-200 and other complexes of the Soviet period practically do not see the Israeli modification of the F-16 in jamming mode.
    They saw being jammed, not the actual F-16s. But if they were afraid of a 2nd attack, it was stupid not to wait till the Il-20 returned & the F-16s coming closer to be engaged by the S-200s.
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    Post  Isos Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:42 pm

    Intersting news. Israeli used their state of art last gen. ECM and s-400 had all the 4 f-16 on its radar's screen and no fake targets. Too bad russia disn't shot them down to make the s-400 combat proven.
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:21 pm



    This entire thing of Israel attacks on Syria is a major unethical unfriendly game Israel have been
    playing against Russia..

    WHen Iran was not in Syria , and Syrian army began to liberate territory around damascus and in the south ,
    Israel began to use their airforce to bomb at Syrian army positions to shield the advance of Alnusra in south of Syria.. So Israel Airforce provided many times close air support to Alqaeda and ISIS in the southern Syrian border..
    So clearly Israel was at war with Syria .. and was using their Airforce to help NATO backed terrorist to take territory.

    They later began to bomb Syria homs base to take down their air defenses.. when IRAN was not in Syria..
    under the pretext ,of "to stop Hezbolah weapon shipment. " , they always claims that is either Because IRAN or Because hezbolah.. but notice how they target instead Syria air defenses and Syria warehouses in Latakkia ,where from Syria and not from IRAN..

    So Israel is playing games of deception in Syria .. hostile games.
    and the real reason Israel have been attacking Syria are .. in this order..

    1)To scare Russia ,so they flee away from Syria and drop support to Assad and the continuation of Syrian state .
    2)To weaken Syrian army capabilities to defend itself from a NATO or Israel airforce attack.. Keep them in fear
    of NATO and Israel bombs.. and use terror to submit Syrian government into their demands to allow them split
    and totally partition their country to slowly destroy it.
    3)As the last one ,is to remove any iranian presence influence in the zone.

    So in other words ,the most important objective of Israel is #1 to force Russia to leave Syria.. and abandon
    its support to them.. So that they can restart the war.. Israel is worried about losing its air dominance in the region
    and if Russia fortify Syria , it pose a threat to Israel directly domination in the zone...since now Russia will influence
    Jordan too... they could ask protection from Israel.. and this is when things will become very ugly..

    If i was Putin.. knowing how Israel will never stop its hostilities towards Russia and Syria , as they have been doing
    for long , then i will be speaking with Jordan King.. to lure him ,into the Russia/China/Syria orbit..and them
    welcome a military base of Russia and China in Jordan ,Right there at Israel Borders.. This will be a CHECK MATE..
    on Israel.. could be attacked from all sides and this times not with kitchen made rockets of hezbolah.. but with very
    lethal and advanced weapons that Israel can't counter.. like Russia hypersonic missiles will penetrate their defenses
    very easily.. And deploy S-300s near Jordan border with Israel.. This is the most vulnerable place of israel.. because there , Russia can supply weapons to palestinians to target Israel military and pay back Israel what they have been doing in Syria. Later if Israel attack Russia again.. Russia can shot down Israel airforce ,as soon they take off.. from their military airports.. when is very vulnerable.. This is when Israel will shit on their pants.. when Russia start creating a missile shield around Israel and fortify there.. missiles in Syria ,Jordan near Israel border and warships armed with S-300s in the Egyptian coast.. So that if a major war start.. Israel will be neutralized from all sides.. The only thing the zio Jews understand is Force...and Russia needs to think very seriously deploying Military bases in Jordan near israel controlled borders.. if Israel hostilities dont stop. This way Russia can play the same games Israel have been doing in Syria.. Israel was attacking Syria from its very closest borders.. and so Russia need to prepare to have the option if things goes really bad with Israel. To have a military base close to Israel borders from the jorndanian side. and provide Protection to Jordan from NATO and Israel .
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    Post  BKP Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:00 pm

    So Israel is playing games of deception in Syria .. hostile games.
    and the real reason Israel have been attacking Syria are .. in this order..

    1)To scare Russia ,so they flee away from Syria and drop support to Assad and the continuation of Syrian state .
    2)To weaken Syrian army capabilities to defend itself from a NATO or Israel airforce attack.. Keep them in fear
    of NATO and Israel bombs.. and use terror to submit Syrian government into their demands to allow them split
    and totally partition their country to slowly destroy it.
    3)As the last one ,is to remove any iranian presence influence in the zone.

    Yeah, that's basically what they've been doing. And when the Russians don't blink they'll apply more pressure to coerce the US to do it for them. Anyone who opines otherwise will be an "anti-semite," of course. Hollywood will release their 10,000th Holocaust movie. Yahoo will come give and personally give a speech to congress, and at his every utterance they'll obediently jump up and down to applaud and cheer, like marionettes on a string.

    It's getting tougher though. Looks like Michael may have taken out 22 or so F-22s down in Florida. Funny how the number worked out.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:44 pm

    Pictures showing upside-down fighter aircraft on the base’s grounds are somewhat deceptive: These came from a static display of decommissioned historic aircraft. ..Recent air force assessments found only 49 per cent of the 187-strong (now possibly much fewer) fleet was ready to fly at any given time.
    https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f22-raptors-damaged-destroyed-by-hurricane-michael/news-story/d89d7c18e1b3caf550238cbdd7a8a2ba

    That F-15 was probably just a shell.
    https://sputniknews.com/us/201810141068871178-f-22-jets-hurricane-michael/
    They still have 33 F-22s that were moved ahead of the storm.
    ..four F-22 Raptors from the 43rd Fighter Squadron were unable to fly out of the way of the storm and may have been damaged. Three Raptors were in one hangar that had significant damage, according to the forum, and a fourth rode out the storm in a separate hangar that seemed to sustain less damage, based on imagery on the forum. The Air Force would not confirm that the F-22s were damaged in the storm.
    ..A separate source told Defense News that as many as ten F-22s may have been damaged by the storm.
    The same source said the damage to the F-22s should be largely repairable, but repairs will be costly — and come at a time that Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis has made increasing F-22 readiness rates a priority. https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/10/12/f-22s-qf-16-likely-damaged-after-tyndall-hangars-hit-by-hurricane/
    So, if they wanted to send more of them to the ME, there r still enough.
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:25 am

    ELINT News
    ELINT News
    @ELINTNews
    ·
    20m
    #UPDATE: Saudi Arabia prepares 30 possible counter-measures against US sanctions, not ruling out the possibility of increasing the price of oil over $200 per barrel and a Russian military base in Tabuk- Al-Arabiya
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:01 am

    Isos wrote:ELINT News
    ELINT News
    @ELINTNews
    ·
    20m
    #UPDATE: Saudi Arabia prepares 30 possible counter-measures against US sanctions, not ruling out the possibility of increasing the price of oil over $200 per barrel and a Russian military base in Tabuk- Al-Arabiya

    Really ? Shocked

    It will be hillarious if it is True..

    My opinion is that is an EXCELENT IDEA... to get Saudi Arabia on Russian Orbit...
    yes yes.. is a terror savage state.. and the land of wahhabism.. But it is US Gov and UK the ones
    that created Alqaeda and iSIS..with CIA help.. So NATO major powers are the arcchitecs of the industry
    of the weaponization of Islam. and the organization of radical groups into Terrorism..

    So is much more practical ,effective and productive for Putin , to reach a deal with Saudi Arabia
    ,when the king provide Russia with Information of Where are the radicals , their names and their positions
    in Russia and in Syria and in Europe , to convince the Saudis to betray the wahabist movement.. and in change
    Russia and CHina provide protection to Saudis From NATO..  Also Russia can influence Saudis to turn the nation
    into a secular state ,and gradually reverse the islamic extremism.. Legalize Christian Churches in Saudi Arabia,
    the posibilities are endless..  Saudi Arabia becoming a secular nation and providing Russia with very important
    information of radical groups ,their hidings in any part of the world.. their names and identifications.. Saudis will switch protection from Americans to Russia and will buy now the weapons from Russia.. and This also means saudis will abandon the war against Yemen and Syria and convince all terrorist to leave.. A true peace and prosperity in the middle east could happen if Russia gets Saudis in the Russian orbit.. Qatar is with one step already inside Russia orbit. Americans could try to blame Saudis for 9/11 but will not be able to do much with Russia and China providing protection to Saudi Arabia. This will make Russia and China very Rich providing security to the entire middle east. and will end the American presence there...


    as a bonus a Base of Russia in base in Tabuk- Al-Arabiya ,will put Russia close to Israel from the eastern flank..
    to keep them in check..and will be able to close the strait ,the suez canal..incase of war.. with NATO.. very important place. IF Saudis joins Russian orbit ,and request protection from US , all other states in middle east
    will join the block.. from Sunnis to Shias requesting protection from Russia and they can reconstruct Syria
    and pay Russia for all the damages in their economy for US sanctions.. this will be close to a Check mate
    on American influence in the zone.


     .I dont think it will happen..but technically speaking it should be possible if they move fast..and start offering Russia ,to become their protector , that they will do anything ,to get it done fast.. it could truly end the wars in middle east..and Russia in charge of most of world energy. Sounds crazy a Russo-saudi alliance. with all those countries abandoning radical extremism and welcoming secular culture... is worth of trying ,anything is better than to allow the current NATO regime ,to continue destroying nation after nation the very corrupt Anglojewish system in place. is  what is destroying the world. If Putin can pull something like this.. Get Saudis in Russia orbit . then i will have to eat my words of Putin Incompetence.. something like this a Saudi-Russo alliance..will be probably
    the most amazing Beneficial Diplomatic move ever done ,the reverse of a tide , by Russia ever on history and probably by any nation in the entire world.. Laughing

    Make no mistake takes skills ,to do what Russia did in Syria.. not only at military level but even more at the diplomatic one...and getting  Saudis in totally in full Russian orbit as Syria is..,it will make Putin a diplomatic genius.. that will be mandatory to study in schools of politics.    Smile

    But i dont think Americans will give away the control they have over Saudi arabia without a fight..
    this could provoke a major war.. between US and Russia.. there is too much money in place..
    so it will be very interesting to see how things develop.. with Saudis blackmailing US ,with economic damages.  Shocked and moving into the Russian orbit? that will be amazing.. turn around for the middle east and can truly put an end at the negative influence of NATO there. since Jordan and UAE and bahrain can say me too... help us too..
    with protection..

    the only better move for Russia will be to get Europe into Russian Orbit.or at least the major powers like germany ,france ,,and others but that will be the end of NATO.. but Russia is far from there..

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:31 am

    S. Arabia already has Chinese made BMs:
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/saudi-arabia-already-has-ballistic-missile-arsenal-courtesy-china%E2%80%94-little-help-cia-31772 https://thediplomat.com/2014/01/china-secretly-sold-saudi-arabia-df-21-missiles-with-cia-approval/
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/01/30/why-did-saudi-arabia-buy-chinese-missiles/

    But she won't make peace with Iran anytime soon nor abandon its Wahhabi ideology. Also, all those American weapons in its arsenal will be left w/o spare parts should S. Arabia follow Turkey into getting closer with Russia & will have to be sold for pennies. New weapon acquisitions from the US may be cancelled too. In that case, importing less capable systems from others & training personnel may take a very long time.

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