Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #13

GarryB wrote:Even if only half the S-300s work as advertised that is 48 shot down Israeli aircraft... a fairly significant chunk of their Air Force... I really doubt they would be happy or willing to do that just to damage the Syrian Air Defence Forces reputation... especially if it includes F-35s.

GarryB wrote:Hehehehehe... 24 launchers means 96 missiles ready to fire... but also supported by other systems.

Regarding a 300 aircraft attack by Israel... why would anyone think the Israelis would send 300 plus pilots to die just to take out S-300 systems?

Second these systems are now being connected to the Russian system so add S-400 and S-300V4 missiles into the mix if it comes to a 300 aircraft attack plus land attack missiles I doubt Russia would just sit by and watch...

Even if only half the S-300s work as advertised that is 48 shot down Israeli aircraft... a fairly significant chunk of their Air Force... I really doubt they would be happy or willing to do that just to damage the Syrian Air Defence Forces reputation... especially if it includes F-35s.

GarryB wrote:Look forward to hearing about a few Israeli F-35s crashing due to technical faults... there is no way Syrian Air Defence forces or Russian SAM systems could be effective...

Why start telling the truth now?

I mean the Israelis claimed their F-16s were in Israeli airspace when the Il-20 was shot down and that the Syrian AD never even detected them and only opened fire after their munitions exploded on target and they just fired wildly in any direction... they were attacking targets in the north of Syria remember...

did a Russian anti-aircraft missile hit one of Israel’s new F-35 stealth fighters?

Pro-Russian media are claiming that an Israeli F-35I was hit and damaged by a Russian-made S-200 surface-to-air missile during an Israeli air strike in Syria earlier this month. Israel says one of its F-35s was damaged—after colliding with a bird.

The story begins on October 16, when Israel announced that its aircraft had struck a Syrian SAM battery near Damascus that had fired two hours earlier on Israeli reconnaissance planes flying over Lebanon. The attack damaged the missile battery, and no Israeli aircraft were hit, according to Israel. Coincidentally or not, the incident happened the same day that Russia’s defense minister, Sergei Shoigu, arrived in Israel for talks with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman.

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However, Southfront.org , a website that covers the Russian military and its intervention in the Syrian Civil War, suggested a different story. “According to the available information, the Syrian Defense Forces used a S-200 missile against the Israeli warplane,” Southfront claimed.


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Did a Russian Made Missile Really Strike a New Israeli F-35 Stealth Fighter?

Russia vs. the F-35: Did a Russian Made Missile Strike One of Israel's New F-35s?

Did a Russian Made Anti-Aircraft Missile Really Hit an F-35?
Southfront could not resist pointing out that a much-vaunted F-35 stealth fighter had been hit by a missile that dates back to the 1960s. “This Soviet-made missile is the most advanced long range anti-aircraft system operated by the Syrian military. Even in this case, it’s old-fashioned in terms of modern warfare.”

However, the evidence cited by Southfront seems rather tenuous. Hours after the Israeli military announced the strike on the Syrian missile battery, Israeli media reported that an Israeli F-35 had been damaged by a bird strike two weeks before (Google translation here ). The plane reportedly landed safely, but the Israeli Air Force did admit that it wasn’t sure whether the plane will fly again. Israel has taken delivery of only seven F-35Is so far, with a total of fifty on order.

S-300PS, S-300PMU, S-300V and others. Only six systems have been repaired since 2004; as a result only 40% of Ukrainian S-300 systems were in good condition prior to 2014. The crisis with Russia resulted in a program of accelerated modernisation, with at least 4 batteries overhauled in the period 2014-15. 34 launchers remained in the Crimea after 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea.
Greece- S-300 PMU1 system acquired after the Cyprus Missile Crisis and operated by HAF on Crete consisting of 1 Battalions/4 batteries/16 launchers / 80 missiles.

A battery of Russian S-300V4 air defense missile launchers has been transported to Syria, Russia’s Defense Ministry said in a statement. Its stated purpose is to defend a Russian naval base and warships. Following the downing of Russian Il-20 aircraft in Syria in September 2018, for which Russia held Israel responsible, defense minister Sergei Shoigu on 24 September said that within two weeks, the Syrian army would receive S-300 systems. The precise modification was not specified, though the stated range of the system was 250 km. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_missile_system#Operators_and_other_versions

They already claimed that.. that got damaged one F-35 because of a "bird" . the Syrian army however told a different story ,that they damaged the plane with an S-200 missile

I don't think Ukrainian S-300, even if older, r that different from those which came out later

Israel’s American-made F-15 and F-16 jets enjoyed protection by sophisticated electronic jamming that blinded Syria’s air defenses, and they had no trouble dropping tons of explosives on the target and confirming visually that it had been flattened. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/20/inside-israels-secret-raid-on-syrias-nuclear-reactor-217663

Tsavo Lion wrote:10 facts about the downed IL-20 in Syria, finally determining the culprit

Tsavo Lion wrote:US fighters have tested vs. the Ukrainian S-300
http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/ussr/ukraine/11-10-2018/141769-ukraine_s_300-0/

But will the Russian S-400 linked to Syrian S-300 detect them?

The Syrians didn't detect/discriminate several F-16s against the IL-20 that they should have known about & were not supposed to shot down.
It's nothing new: 11 y. ago, they didn't detect Israeli raid on a NK built nuclear reactor:

If they can avoid being detected & targeted again, the S-300/400 kill chain will be broken.

10 facts about the downed Il-20 in Syria, finally determining the culprit
Policy
Chronology, consequences and little-known details


Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2499651.html
Any use of the materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to the IA REGNUM.

The fall of the aircraft of radio-electronic intelligence Il-20 VKS of Russia, unlike many other incidents of this kind, was not covered by a veil of secrecy. On the contrary, this situation immediately had two opposite points of view: the version of what happened on the part of the Israeli air force and the arguments set out by the Russian side.

Israel claimed that it was " forced "to strike at the targets of Hezbollah and Iran in Syria, because they threatened the internal security of the country. Therefore, according to tel Aviv, all further events are the fault of the parties that forced the state to commit an attack.

Russia, came up with a much more significant position-it was Israel that created a situation in which the conditions for the catastrophe and the death of Russian soldiers. And it really is…

Of course, both approaches can not be correct at the same time, so the true conclusions are wiser to build on the facts known to date.

Fact one

Around each Russian military base in Syria (since 2015) installed covert 60-kilometer "exclusion zone". Behind the scenes they are the radius of the Russian military, special forces, patrols and other forces that provide protection. In addition, it is in this zone that various types of aircraft, including civil ones, regularly land.

The fact that the second

According to the agreement with Israel, Russia turned a blind eye to the work of the Israeli air force in the skies of Syria only on condition that these actions will not create a threat to the military and civilian contingent of our country, and will be committed after an early warning.

The fact that the third

Israel violated all the points of the above-mentioned Treaty, because the warning was not only one minute before the direct attack, but also totally untrue. On the line of communication Colonel of the Israeli air force said that the attacks will be carried out in the North of Syria, while the f-16 was heading to the Western part of the country.

Fact four

By the time of the beginning of the illegal Israeli operation, in Idlib (Northern Syria) was a Russian aircraft Il-20 with soldiers on Board. As soon as the headquarters of the Russian aerospace forces received the Israeli message, Il-20 was ordered to go to the West, that is, to land at the airport in Latakia. At that time, no one assumed that Israel had openly deceived the Russian command, and in fact, the Il-20 is not moving from the zone of the operation, but directly into it.

The fact of the fifth

At this time, Israeli aircraft, instead of flying to the North, at a very low altitude flew around Syria from the West, first hiding behind a French frigate, and then made a large-scale attack from the area of Cyprus.

The fact of the sixth

The surprise attack on Syrian territory by the Israeli air force from the West was the cause of the barely restrained anger of our military not only because of the fact of deception. It was in the fact that Israel chose a place of striking objects located just 25 kilometers from the military base Hamim. That is, in the same 60-kilometer "exclusion zone", where it could be Russian soldiers.

The fact of the seventh

Il-20 was in the air over Idlib before the attack of the Israeli air force. Therefore, not in the capabilities of Russia was in principle " not to raise." On the contrary, it was because of the Israeli military's attempts to mislead the Russian side that the intelligence officer was ordered to "return to the base". The base was in the West of the country, for landing it was necessary to turn over the Mediterranean sea, but the crew did not know that it was there soon and will begin to fire at Israeli aircraft.

The fact of the eighth

5 minutes after the" warning " F-16 Israeli air force released on Syria the first planning bombs (with a range of about 90 km). After 8 minutes, bombs hit the target. Only then, 13 minutes after the deceptive warning, Syrian air defense calculations realized that the attack is made in the West of the country, not in the North.

The fact of the ninth

Apparently, and given the fact that the Syrian air defense will now be connected to a single fire control system, the decision to attack Israeli aircraft was taken by the Syrian armed forces independently. That is, without the approval of the command of the armed forces. Contrary to popular belief, Russia does not control every step of the Syrian army. The air defense of Syria has its command, and this was not the first time when the complexes under the control of the Syrians inflicted mass attacks on the aircraft of the Israeli air force. Actually, that is why we are not limited to the supply of s-300 systems, and expanded them to provide EW and ACS.

The fact of the tenth

C-200 and other complexes of the Soviet period practically do not see the Israeli modification of the F-16 in jamming mode. That is why the air defense of Syria were always forced to make mass launches. In this case, the Syrian air defense launched about 27 missiles towards the targets.

Further-well known. The electronic imprint of the Il-20 (built on the basis of civil Il-18) is two orders of magnitude (that is, a hundred times) higher than the imprint of the F-16. As a result, the Israeli air force fighter" covered " with our aircraft transferred the missile targeting to the Russian aircraft. It can not be excluded that this was done by the pilot not specifically, especially given the fact that the F-16 really had the possibility of guaranteed departure from the rocket and without such steps. However, it all came together in this way.

Conclusion

The underlying cause of the tragedy was Israel's illegal actions to attack Syrian territory. The fact of deception of the General staff of Russia by false giving of coordinates. Violation of the agreement to prevent the start of the operation for a certain time. Attack 25 kilometers from the air base Hamim and, finally, the bombardment of objects in the work area of the "staff" of the Russian airbase.

From the beginning to the end the culprit is obvious.

Perhaps if the official delegation of Israel, which had arrived in Russia at the time, had recognized the fact that it had endangered the lives of Russian soldiers and taken other unfriendly steps, the result would have been different. But since the meeting claimed that Israel "did the right thing", it became clear that such steps could be repeated in the future. That is why the measures taken by the Russian side to neutralize a similar situation in the future turned out to be much tougher than those expected.

Right now, Russia is creating a multi-layered air defense system in Syria. The main element of the new defence is the upgraded S — 300 systems. Hereinafter, the automatic centralized control system. Then electronic warfare systems. And we are talking about EW systems of various classes, from the Directors of interference of satellite orientation (blocking GPS and missile guidance systems), to local and target Directors of interference of any objects of movement in the air.

S-300, depending on the echelon, in turn, will cover the "Shells", "tor", "Beech" and so on. So, it is already clear that this system plans to become the best in the middle East.

Russia does not plan to take full control over the air defense of Syria, in order to leave for itself the possibility of a political maneuver in case of its targeted use. And therefore completely eliminate further attacks, she can't. Nevertheless, the measures taken radically increase the risks for any aggressor, because the defense of this type allows not only to shoot down missiles and platforms on approach to the target, but also to divert from the course already released "smart" ammunition. Jamming their guidance, to make failures in the operation of, disable, plant, or disposed of. The probability that the aggressor will reach the target is sharply reduced, and the chance that the attack aircraft will be destroyed even after landing at the home airfield is growing.

In addition, it is almost impossible to destroy one or more s-300 launchers without destroying other systems covering It. At least from the air. The only chance for any country to break through the system being built in Syria is to destroy all multi-layered defense at once. Such hypothetically possible, for example, in the case of a massive attack. However, it is not feasible in practice.

The fact is that in this case, defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said directly: "Russia will not allow to destroy the defense being built in Syria and in cases of such attempts will be forced to intervene personally."

Thus, the attempt to ignore the opinion of Moscow, which caused the catastrophe with the Russian Il-20, led to the diametrically opposite result. Israeli and NATO air force drones, previously flying freely in the Syrian sky, are no longer able to do this. Three divisions of the modernized complexes, which is almost 24 s-300 launchers, have already been transferred to the air defense of the SAR.

Electronic warfare systems as they are received are increasingly jamming GPS signals, military negotiations and other guidance, control and communication systems. ACS is connected to a growing number of existing air defense systems in Syria, and the borders of the Republic and the lives of Russian soldiers are becoming more protected.

At the same time, it is important to understand that first of all, Israel's unfriendly steps allowed Russia to start building a new defense system not so much against the air force of this country, but against the actions of the US and NATO countries. This means that two small warehouses, which with the least losses wanted to destroy tel Aviv, closed Washington and the North Atlantic Alliance unhindered access to the Syrian sky.

The victim of the Russian military did not remain unanswered, and perhaps it was she who saved the lives of many others.


Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2499651.html
Any use of the materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to the IA REGNUM.

5)Use their submarines to launch ballistic attacks..

They did detect the F-16s... that is what they were shooting at.

C-200 and other complexes of the Soviet period practically do not see the Israeli modification of the F-16 in jamming mode.

So Israel is playing games of deception in Syria .. hostile games.
and the real reason Israel have been attacking Syria are .. in this order..

1)To scare Russia ,so they flee away from Syria and drop support to Assad and the continuation of Syrian state .
2)To weaken Syrian army capabilities to defend itself from a NATO or Israel airforce attack.. Keep them in fear
of NATO and Israel bombs.. and use terror to submit Syrian government into their demands to allow them split
and totally partition their country to slowly destroy it.
3)As the last one ,is to remove any iranian presence influence in the zone.

Pictures showing upside-down fighter aircraft on the base’s grounds are somewhat deceptive: These came from a static display of decommissioned historic aircraft. ..Recent air force assessments found only 49 per cent of the 187-strong (now possibly much fewer) fleet was ready to fly at any given time.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f22-raptors-damaged-destroyed-by-hurricane-michael/news-story/d89d7c18e1b3caf550238cbdd7a8a2ba

..four F-22 Raptors from the 43rd Fighter Squadron were unable to fly out of the way of the storm and may have been damaged. Three Raptors were in one hangar that had significant damage, according to the forum, and a fourth rode out the storm in a separate hangar that seemed to sustain less damage, based on imagery on the forum. The Air Force would not confirm that the F-22s were damaged in the storm.
..A separate source told Defense News that as many as ten F-22s may have been damaged by the storm.
The same source said the damage to the F-22s should be largely repairable, but repairs will be costly — and come at a time that Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis has made increasing F-22 readiness rates a priority. https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/10/12/f-22s-qf-16-likely-damaged-after-tyndall-hangars-hit-by-hurricane/

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