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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #13

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:06 pm

    They don't. Military IFF code are not shared. Civilian planes have not encrypted codes. Those are two different things

    When the mig-25 flew to Japan, soviet airforce spend huge money on rectifying IFF codes because US analyzed them.

    https://sputniknews.com/amp/world/201809201068188741-russia-syria-il-20/

    If russia gives its IFF code of its su-35 to syria to let them know that it is a su-35 and USA buy those codes to a syrian radar operator because he needs money to have a better life then they can use those codes for their f-15 to bomb the russian and make them think it is just a su-35.

    Civillian IFF are not working on the same mode as military.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:50 pm

    Isos wrote:They don't. Military IFF code are not shared. Civilian planes have not encrypted codes. Those are two different things

    When the mig-25 flew to Japan, soviet airforce spend huge money on rectifying IFF codes because US analyzed them.

    https://sputniknews.com/amp/world/201809201068188741-russia-syria-il-20/

    If russia gives its IFF code of its su-35 to syria to let them know that it is a su-35 and USA buy those codes to a syrian radar operator because he needs money to have a better life then they can use those codes for their f-15 to bomb the russian and make them think it is just a su-35.

    Civillian IFF are not working on the same mode as military.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe


    Military IFF codes are shared, that is how Syrian AD knows it's a Russian plane. Whenever a Russian plane is airborne the Syrians have a mark that says "this plane is Russian do not shoot it", you are confusing my words, we aren't talking about domestic code. I am talking about Syrian to Russian IFF codes, which basically simply are little coding they put into the system so the radar operators know what's what.

    You could give these codes to the states and we couldn't frame anyone for shit by trying to do what you are saying. All these codes do in the case I am talking about is state the Aircraft is friendly.

    What you are thinking about isn't IFF codes. The Electronic ID of a plane isn't IFF codes your logic is puzzling to me.

    And you really got your facts twisted if you think IFF can be used to say an F-15 is an SU-35 xD, Russia and Syria have IFF codes that let them know when friendly aircraft are out and about otherwise you would be hearing many stories about how Syria is taking accidentally shots at Russian planes.

    Frankly, the Syrians need those codes to cause their Air Defense crews are morons.

    AND for the record that article isn't worth shit, Putin is covering for Isreal and my personal experience that article is a flat out lie, That is just a saving face article. Frankly you are talking the bait, they are trying to pull wool over your eyes using the excuse of domestic IFF codes.
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    Post  Vann7 Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:28 pm

    Isos wrote:They don't. Military IFF code are not shared. Civilian planes have not encrypted codes. Those are two different things

    When the mig-25 flew to Japan, soviet airforce spend huge money on rectifying IFF codes because US analyzed them.

    https://sputniknews.com/amp/world/201809201068188741-russia-syria-il-20/

    If russia gives its IFF code of its su-35 to syria to let them know that it is a su-35 and USA buy those codes to a syrian radar operator because he needs money to have a better life then they can use those codes for their f-15 to bomb the russian and make them think it is just a su-35.

    Civillian IFF are not working on the same mode as military.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe


    There is no way dude.. the Russian airforce will fly over Syria , without having a system in place ,to let
    the Syrian air defenses know ,that is a Russia federation plane.. Just think for 3 seconds.. and forget of what you read.. use common sense.. it works.. Imagine that Syrian army and Russian army are fighting together in Syria..
    and they are in different places.. How can Russia avoid Friendly fire if they don't provide the Syrians a way to identify where are Russian positions.. So THINK dude.. just fucking THINK.. use your brain.. do it.. Russian army
    will not be safe from friendly fire ,if it does not create an effective system for Syrians to know where is the Russian army and Which ones in the air are Russian planes..   Will you fly over Syria knowing there is a risk ,the Syrian army will shot down your plane ,thinking it was an iSraeli one?  So common dude.. be realistic.. Ignore whatever bullshit you read on media ,aimed for the average public , and trust in logic and common sense.. Russia will never allow their planes to fly over Syria ,if they knew there is a major risk of their planes being confused for enemy.. NEVER DUDE... that will be completely Stupid and Criminal.. SO the Russian planes needs to emit some kind of secret signal. . that could change day by day.. or by the hour.. that the Syrian Radar can capture.. that will let them know.. is Russia airforce.. and not israel one.. understand? and also there have to be Syrian commanders inside the Russian base ,Radars room ,communicating by radio with encrypted communications ,telling their operators of Pantsirs and S-200s ,of a Russian flying or bombing operation ,and in which part of Syria will be.. so their army is not bombed.
    are you listening ?  This is common sense 101. no rocket science. .you dont send your soldiers to a war ,if there is no effective system in place to avoid FRIENDLY FIRE..  Unless you think the Syrian Buks Operators.. Cross the finger and close their eyes ,and do a prayer ..hoping the plane they fired a missile is not from Russia.. The Russian Army is not as stupid and idiotic and you claim.. Russia Do have an system in place ,for the syrian army to know ,which plane in sky is from Russia and which one is not.. and there is no risk at all..
    so no need to give Syria any electronic secrets at all.. just agree on a secret signal ,that will let them know the plane is Russian.. it could be also a behavior..and flight path.. if it fly over this route.. is Russian..if it fly in this zone is not..  for example there could be mini fly zones inside Syria ..even for the Russian military.
    like the Assad castle or government buildings.. this will not be a bad idea ,to avoid any accidents. and made it easier for Pantsirs to freely shoot at anything that fly over that zone..
    So there is no way the Syrian army dont have communications with Russian airforce all the time..for the same reasons to Avoid being bombed ,and confused for terrorist..
     What Russia military could be speaking is about Hardware IFF identification electronics inside of everyplane.. that is not shared with anyone.. that also blocks Russian missiles from targeting those planes .. to maximize security.. but still Russia can communicate with Syrian army air defense operators..by sending a signal to their air defenses.. letting them know.. IS RUSSIAN plane and don't shoot at them..  So there is little chance the Syrian military showdown the Russian plane.. also S-200s missiles , have manual flight path.. most of the time.. have to be guided manually by the Operators.. to its place.. so if they see the Israel plane moving towards the Russian one. they still have a way to abort the flight path of the missile and divert it ,to another direction.. Many ways to avoid an accident... so is more than likely israel shot down the plane.. and used mini Drones.armed with bombs. and Russia s--200 story was created only to give more time to Russia ,to plan for a response..

    Regardless of what Putin told , the Top military of Russia was very clear in accusing Israel for the shot down of the plane. We are speaking here about israel... a nation that did not respect Russia at all and only hypocrites.. The day Netanyahu visit with flowers Russia immortal march. he ordered the bombing of Syria.. and also bombed near Russian bases.. So they are only mocking Russia.. disrespecting Russia ,playing games..  to bomb in Tartus and latakkia ,close to Russian bases.. is very Hostile provocation.. make no mistake about this. and this is done to pressure Russia to abandon Syria  but also to encourage NATO to continue attacking Syria.. they want to see Syria destroyed and don't care about Russia soldiers lives , why they were supplying weapons to terrorist in Syria that later use it against Russian army.... Israel was never a friend of Russia..and never will be, Jews historically have worked Against Christians interest in the world.. Israel all it cares is their country and promote the western Global anglozionist order ,that they can influence.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:53 am

    The reaction of Moscow to the US nuclear submarines going to Syria
    That's neat! No need for extra ASW ships there!
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    Post  Mindstorm Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:05 pm

    Isos wrote:Israel has not been forced to leave syrian air space by modernized syrian AD. It's the presence of russians that complicate their work first because they can't attack russian AD and second because russian radars are connected to syrian AD and they are far better than syrian's.
    Syrian suck for air defence. They proved it with the pantsir. And israel could easily destroy syrian AD if russians are not there. They are for the most static and well known by israeli. Buk and pantsir were there before russian came and they achieved 0 israeli jet down

    It is not so Isos ,i can assure you of that  Wink  


    Federation's Air Defense structure in Syria  is not linked, and even less networked, to Syrian one in any way, the thing by itself (without any actual employment of our interceptors or EW) would represent an huge unbalancing factor for the existing Equilibrium of forces in the region and has been object of a very long negotiations with the representative of bordering nations requiring written compelling assurances that this particular circumstances would not be realized after our coming in the Syrian theatre, it is seen as a very serious question for not upturn existing balance of forces.

    Before the modernization ,3 years ago, of the Soviet era SAM systems ,representing still at today more than the 90% of the entire system reserve in force with the Syrian Air Defense , IAF conducted mission well within Syrian air space simply by avoiding completely the area of potential presence of the most modern SAM specimen; there were nothing of particularly noticeable and even less remarkable about that.  

    What forced IAF to sudddenly abandon border penetration missions ,both of surveillance and strike nature -in less than 90 days : from several at months to zero up to today - was the realization that, after the modernization, those same older SAM systems that just some months before was easily suppressed by jamming application or avoided with simple maneuvers capable to interrupt radar lock-on and, i repeat one more time representing the wide majority of AD coverage of Syrian air space, became virtually immune to those countermeasures and well capable to down theirs intruding aircraft.

    After several losses of fighter aircraft and drones (and yes it was well more that the one admited by IAF authorities.......) Israeli high Command ordered within few weeks the complete interruption of any mission encompassing Syrian border penetration in favour to exclusive stand-off attacks.  

    Our AD network has had literally zero role in the interruption of IAF aircraft penetration in Syrian borders.


    Seig Soloyvov wrote:Well Russia tried to say that the S-200 battery wasn't equipped or link with IFF systems which is a rather huge BS lie on their part.

    This is a flat amateurish assumtion.
    Never ever a single export-built AD system, even in Soviet times and during deployment of our aircraft on foreign soil such as in Egypt, was equiped with an IFF system . Period.


    Where necessary (such as military aircraft returning within hosting nation borders from missions conducted outside of them in international air space) the communication with the hosting AD happen exclusively with active one-time-coded communication - not interrogation by part of the hosting nation SAM system possible - and only with the SAM batteries covering that specific returning flight line.

    In the wide majority of the instances, with Federation's aircraft operating in the area of competence of our AD network , those measures are not even in need.  

    In this particular instance ,as already said previously, those Israeli aircraft was tracked and identified by our ground-air and space sensors few minutes after theirs take-off ,theirs flight pact followed and rightly classified as IAF's aircraft and therefore excluded from any engagement procedure in observance to the mutual agreement in place.
    With other forces ,such as Coalition Air Forces, the agreement is different and you can observe as those foreign aircraft remain ,since two years at now, very far from the limit lines from where our network would engage them; that because anyone know that we abide strictly to our bilateral agreements.

    Those 4 IAF F-16I literally "used" the existing bi-lateral agreement with the Federation's forces to modify the usual west-Damascus flight pact over the Mediterranean Sea to conduct a surprise attack in the Latakia region, very scarcely covered by Syrian Army AD system just because of the presence of Federation base and those  agreements in place with potentially hostile forces.
    In those RoE conditions those 4 F-16I could have treacherously downed litarally any kind of our aircraft ,not only that Ил-20 but also at example an Су-35С or a Су-34 , simply by closing at very close range and opening fire and that witout any kind of prremptive response by our part.
    Obviously in that instance the consequences for Israeli Air Force would have been literally catastrophic ,but for the point i want to make that is irrelevant.

    Now what happened instead with that С-200ВЭ battery that in reality downed our Ил-20  is enough simple :

    - This battery was placed here to cover west Damascus intrusions from several dozen Km more to the South, not a totally unespected Latakia attack (it was too close to potential intruding routes from this sector)

    - After a likely sudden warning of imminent attack in the area (communication provided by Israeli Command while the aircraft was practically already in place to begin the attack ) the  С-200ВЭ operators changed urgently priority of sector scanning toward the West and shifted immediately to МХИ ,not providing range disambiguation - a very important element in the mistake of overlapping signature by part of Syrian operators- , under the assumption that them was possible target of the attack and was unprepared also in terms of anti-PGM countermeausures and EW coverage.

    - That battery has very likely positively acquired the radar track of the four F-16I squad, but has equally likely overimposed it to that of the Ил-20 during the engagement sequence at cause of contingential lack of effective targets range's disambiguation.

    - Moreover as expalined not interrogation was possible by those,probably scarcely professional SAM operators, that in the assumption to be personally target of the attack have probably also ascribed the presence a second "ghost" F-16I squad track signature to the employment of EW coverage by part of IAF.    


    Not overcomplicated French Aster missile involvement and subsequent secret coverage of it, neither a squad of four IAF aircraft that manage to actively and coordinately merge, during a bomb delivery msission in the shadow track of a landing plane while actively engaged by an enemy SAM ; instead a plain simple mistake by part of scarcely proficient operators of a modernized Soviet built system , under psycological pressure and with some important contingential limitations to the fuctions of theirs scanning and tracking systems.
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    Post  Vann7 Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:41 am

    some reports.. claim..

    ISRAELI F-16's **INTERCEPTED** BY RUSSIAN WAR PLANES OVER LEBANON; Forced back to Israel


    UPDATED 3:55 PM EDT (SEE BOTTOM) -- Russian jets reportedly intercept Israeli planes over Lebanon.  Two Russian SU-34 planes challenged Two Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-16s in Tripoli, Lebanon’s skies AND FORCED THEM TO RETURN TO ISRAEL despite mechanism to avoid conflicts between Moscow and Jerusalem

    There has been no official confirmation from Russia or Israel.

    It was the first time in months that Russian planes had entered Lebanese airspace from Syria.

    Israeli jets reportedly often fly over Lebanese airspace conducting reconnaissance missions. Reports have also said that many of Israel’s attacks on targets in Syria have been launched from Lebanese airspace.

    Earlier this month Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had no reason to believe the Kremlin would try to limit Israel’s freedom of operation in the region.  It now appears Netanyahu was wrong.
    In light of the heavy Russian presence in Syria, Israel in September 2015 set up a mechanism with Moscow — involving work groups led by the deputy chiefs of both militaries — to avoid conflicts and potentially fatal misunderstandings.

    However, senior air force official stressed that this system was limited: Israel does not inform the Russians before conducting airstrikes in Syria, nor does Russia let the Israelis in on its plans.

    On Monday, Israel launched a missile attack upon Syria using F-16's over the Mediterranean Sea.  Those F-16's intentionally operating very close to a much larger Russian IL-20 Electronic Intelligence aircraft, using that aircraft as a sort of radar cover.

    When Syrian defenses opened fire to stop the inbound missile attack, they locked-onto the RUSSIAN plane and shot it down.

    Russia blames Israel for using a Russian plane to launch a sneak attack, causing the deaths of 14 or 15 Russian airmen.

    After this incident, Russia basically imposed a NO-FLY zone upon Israel by announcing sea and air live-fire exercises in the eastern Mediterranean off the coasts of Syria and Israel.  No Israeli war planes are permitted to fly outside the territory of Israel unless they do so at an altitude above 19,000 feet.  At such altitude, they would be easy targets for Syrian air defenses.

    Below that altitude, Israeli planes would be "in the way" of an announced Russian military exercise where they could "accidentally" be hit by missiles from Russian naval vessels.

    Israel apparently decided to TEST whether Russia meant what it said, and the Israelis sent up two F-16's to fly into Lebanon at an altitude BELOW 19,000 feet.  Those planes were intercepted by Russian SU-34's and forced to turn back to Israel.

    Su-34 is not just a bomber, it is very capable fighter too.

    UPDATE 3:55 PM EDT --
    Russia has just announced that when they complete their "military live-fire exercises" in the waters off the Syria Coast, they are CLOSING THE AIRSPACE Over Syrian Territorial waters along the entire coastline.  NO UNAUTHORIZED AIRCRAFT will be permitted to enter air space over Syrian Territorial Waters.  Violators risk being shot down without warning.

    This now means the only area Israel can use to attack Syria is Lebanese airspace but . . . .

    **** The Syrian army now has permission from Lebanon to fire at Israeli planes that are in Lebanese airspace. ****


    Their reports are usually confirmed half of the time but sometimes is just rumors.. so if confirmed,,will be the first
    time Russia showing confronting Israel..as i imagined and predicted , there will be NEW RULES of Engagement.. and the Lebanese Airspace and Syrian waters are closed for Israel.. or any other nation..

    So this is how i think Russian new rules will be..  Russian planes will lock on Israel planes getting close to Syria, that will activate a warning in their radars. of missile lock. and push Israel planes away from Russia military bases and if they fire a missile close to Russian military bases will be shotdown.. If Israel fire missiles from long distances ,towards Latakia or tartus ,RUssia will intercept their missiles and take down Israel planes even if they at far distances.. To really enforce a small no fly zone ,Russia will need 20-30 combat planes at least.. and fly 4 to 6 at the same time..

    Basically what Israelies are doing is testing Russia to see what are really their new Rules of Engagement..
    To pass that information to Israel military and they will likely continue bombing Syria.. but this time they will
    use either Kurds zones in the north.. or from the east of Syrian airspace.. they will continue testing Russia.. harrassing their air defenses.. But im sure Russians will remain calm.. and will prepare an ambush at an Israeli plane... So is a matter of time the arrogant Israelis will get their asses kicked and planes shot down.. Russia can upgrade S-200s with S-300s electronics and guidance.. so a major pressure on Israel airforce will be noticed..


    False flags however are possible ,will not be surprised if US,Israel shot down a civilian airliner and later blame Syria or Russia for it..
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:07 am

    Pl. post a link of source u used. It's worth recalling that earlier Syrians also shot down a Turkish F-4 which was upgraded by Israel.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II_non-U.S._operators#Upgrades_4

    They r using longer range SU-34s for CAPs. Makes sense!
    IMO, Israel could launch CMs from its subs or territory but they probably don't have that many of them &/ r not sure of their accuracy, or they wouldn't be using any F-16s.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Regular Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:31 am

    Vann7 wrote:some reports.. claim..

    ISRAELI F-16's **INTERCEPTED** BY RUSSIAN WAR PLANES OVER LEBANON; Forced back to Israel


    UPDATED 3:55 PM EDT (SEE BOTTOM) -- Russian jets reportedly intercept Israeli planes over Lebanon.  Two Russian SU-34 planes challenged Two Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-16s in Tripoli, Lebanon’s skies AND FORCED THEM TO RETURN TO ISRAEL despite mechanism to avoid conflicts between Moscow and Jerusalem

    There has been no official confirmation from Russia or Israel.

    It was the first time in months that Russian planes had entered Lebanese airspace from Syria.

    Israeli jets reportedly often fly over Lebanese airspace conducting reconnaissance missions. Reports have also said that many of Israel’s attacks on targets in Syria have been launched from Lebanese airspace.

    Earlier this month Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had no reason to believe the Kremlin would try to limit Israel’s freedom of operation in the region.  It now appears Netanyahu was wrong.
    In light of the heavy Russian presence in Syria, Israel in September 2015 set up a mechanism with Moscow — involving work groups led by the deputy chiefs of both militaries — to avoid conflicts and potentially fatal misunderstandings.

    However, senior air force official stressed that this system was limited: Israel does not inform the Russians before conducting airstrikes in Syria, nor does Russia let the Israelis in on its plans.

    On Monday, Israel launched a missile attack upon Syria using F-16's over the Mediterranean Sea.  Those F-16's intentionally operating very close to a much larger Russian IL-20 Electronic Intelligence aircraft, using that aircraft as a sort of radar cover.

    When Syrian defenses opened fire to stop the inbound missile attack, they locked-onto the RUSSIAN plane and shot it down.

    Russia blames Israel for using a Russian plane to launch a sneak attack, causing the deaths of 14 or 15 Russian airmen.

    After this incident, Russia basically imposed a NO-FLY zone upon Israel by announcing sea and air live-fire exercises in the eastern Mediterranean off the coasts of Syria and Israel.  No Israeli war planes are permitted to fly outside the territory of Israel unless they do so at an altitude above 19,000 feet.  At such altitude, they would be easy targets for Syrian air defenses.

    Below that altitude, Israeli planes would be "in the way" of an announced Russian military exercise where they could "accidentally" be hit by missiles from Russian naval vessels.

    Israel apparently decided to TEST whether Russia meant what it said, and the Israelis sent up two F-16's to fly into Lebanon at an altitude BELOW 19,000 feet.  Those planes were intercepted by Russian SU-34's and forced to turn back to Israel.

    Su-34 is not just a bomber, it is very capable fighter too.

    UPDATE 3:55 PM EDT --
    Russia has just announced that when they complete their "military live-fire exercises" in the waters off the Syria Coast, they are CLOSING THE AIRSPACE Over Syrian Territorial waters along the entire coastline.  NO UNAUTHORIZED AIRCRAFT will be permitted to enter air space over Syrian Territorial Waters.  Violators risk being shot down without warning.

    This now means the only area Israel can use to attack Syria is Lebanese airspace but . . . .

    **** The Syrian army now has permission from Lebanon to fire at Israeli planes that are in Lebanese airspace. ****


    Their reports are usually confirmed half of the time but sometimes is just rumors.. so if confirmed,,will be the first
    time Russia showing confronting Israel..as i imagined and predicted , there will be NEW RULES of Engagement.. and the Lebanese Airspace and Syrian waters are closed for Israel.. or any other nation..

    So this is how i think Russian new rules will be..  Russian planes will lock on Israel planes getting close to Syria, that will activate a warning in their radars. of missile lock. and push Israel planes away from Russia military bases and if they fire a missile close to Russian military bases will be shotdown.. If Israel fire missiles from long distances ,towards Latakia or tartus ,RUssia will intercept their missiles and take down Israel planes even if they at far distances.. To really enforce a small no fly zone ,Russia will need 20-30 combat planes at least.. and fly 4 to 6 at the same time..

    Basically what Israelies are doing is testing Russia to see what are really their new Rules of Engagement..
    To pass that information to Israel military and they will likely continue bombing Syria.. but this time they will
    use either Kurds zones in the north.. or from the east of Syrian airspace.. they will continue testing Russia.. harrassing their air defenses.. But im sure Russians will remain calm.. and will prepare an ambush at an Israeli plane... So is a matter of time the arrogant Israelis will get their asses kicked and planes shot down.. Russia can upgrade S-200s with S-300s electronics and guidance.. so a major pressure on Israel airforce will be noticed..


    False flags however are possible ,will not be surprised if US,Israel shot down a civilian airliner and later blame Syria or Russia for it..

    Russian MOD call it bullshit. Russia and Kikestan are bed buddies. I wonder how much shekels jew are paying to Putin to keep this under the radar?
    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201805281064887924-russia-su-34-israel-f-16/
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:41 am

    That's earlier news from 20:20 28.05.2018! the world will never be the same after this IL-20 incident!
    As fighter-bombers, the SU-34s can be adopted for intercept role.
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    Post  Vann7 Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Pl. post a link of source u used. It's worth recalling that earlier Syrians also shot down a Turkish F-4 which was upgraded by Israel.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II_non-U.S._operators#Upgrades_4

    They r using longer range SU-34s for CAPs. Makes sense!
    IMO, Israel could launch CMs from its subs or territory but they probably don't have that many of them &/ r not sure of their accuracy, or they wouldn't be using any F-16s.


    ops forgot to include the link..

    http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/3184-israeli-f-16-s-intercepted-by-russian-war-planes-over-lebanon-forced-back-to-israel

    @ Regular ,your link is months old.. this one is new.. Sept 22 2018..
    but like i said is give or take.. their reports ,are based on unofficial information sometimes , but most of the times their reports are good enough , partially true or true..  and now there is more information..

    MAJOR Development: Syria

    http://halturnerradioshow.com/images/Sept-2018/RuAF-CargoPlanes-Syria.jpg

    http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/u-s-national-news/3187-major-development-syria-2





    Via Covert Intelligence --
    Things are taking place inside Syria as you read this, which the entire rest of the world is not going to like.

    Russian Air Force cargo planes are arriving almost non-stop into Latakia air base and covert Intelligence reports what they are delivering.

    The information below comes from people who are actually physically on the ground inside Syria.  This is first-hand information from  sources in the actual Intelligence field from a particular country which will not be named.

    Due to the extremely sensitive nature of this information, and the unique position of the source providing it, distribution of this info is restricted so as not to compromise the source.


    Based on the pictures perhaps Russia is moving to deploy another S-400/S300 in Syria..?
    or maybe laser air defenses.. for their base.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:37 am

    Russia doesn't have functional Laser AA systems.
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    Post  LMFS Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:05 pm

    MoD's briefing on the downing of the Il-20:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg9GliGS0RY
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    Post  ATLASCUB Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:23 pm

    MOD still putting the meat out there. Seems to me either Garasimov or Shoygu or both don't agree with the softness coming out of Putin. Thing is, the man has literally no opposition which is why he can weather this.

    Konashenkov pretty much outlined the appeasement policy towards Israel............ what a joke! lol1

    The Russian Defence Ministry held a special briefing to provide detailed information on the crash of the Russian Il-20 off the Syrian coast on September 17.

    The Spokeperson Major General Igor Konashenkov presented a minute-by-minute chronology of the tragedy based on objective data provided by radars including that of the Plotto air information display system.

    “On September 17, the Russian Il-20 survey aircraft at 20:31 started special survey mission in the Idlib de-escalation zone. It had 15 Russian servicemen on board.

    At the same time, four Israeli F-16 jets scrambled from Israel to carry out a sudden attack against industrial facilities in the Syrian Arab Republic. You can see the flight route of the Israeli jets on the screen. The F-16 jets flew over the Mediterranean Sea to take patrolling area 90 km west of Latakia.

    At 21:39 a colonel of the Israeli Air Force Command informed the Russian Command in Syria through the deconfliction channel on the upcoming missile strike. She said that in the next minutes Israel would attack facilities in north Syria.

    In a minute, at 21:40, four Israeli F-16 jets dropped GBU-39 air bombs targeting the industrial facilities in Latakia province.

    Thus, the Israeli side informed the Russian group about its operation, breaching the existing agreements, not in advance, but simultaneously with the beginning of the strikes.

    These actions constitute a clear violation of the 2015 Russian-Israeli agreements to prevent clashes between our armed forces in Syria reached by the joint working group.

    You can see positions of the airplanes at the moment of the strike in the Plotto air information display system. The Russian Il-20 is designated in red and four Israeli jets – in yellow.

    I would like to stress that during negotiations via the deconfliction channel, the representative of the Israeli Air Force Headquarters reported on the targets assigned to the Israeli aircraft in north Syria. The dialogue was held in Russian. The Russian Defence Ministry has a record of the talk.

    The Il-20 commander being in the north of Syria received a task to leave the mission area to the south and return back to the military base.

    As you can see on the map, the Israeli jets delivered strikes not in the north of the Syrian Arab Republic but in Latakia region which is the western province of the country. Besides, the city of Latakia is located on the western coast.

    The misleading information provided by the Israeli officer about the area of strikes did not allow the Russian Il-20 to be taken to a safe area. Besides, they did not provide location of the Israeli F-16 jets.

    At 21:51 the Syrian air defence forces started to repel the Israeli attack and launched anti-aircraft missiles. After the strike, the Israeli jets again took a

    patrolling area 70km west off the Syrian coast, set up jamming and probably prepared to attack again.

    At 21:59 one of the Israeli airplanes started maneuvering towards the Syrian coast approaching the Il-20 that was coming to land. Syrian air defence units considered it as another attack.

    The Israeli pilot did realize that the Il-20 airplane had a much larger radar cross-section than that of the F-16 jet, and it was the Russian aircraft that would be the preferred target for the anti-aircraft missile.

    Moreover, Israeli military also knew that Russia and Syria used different friend-or-foe systems, and Syrian radar can identify Il-20 as a group target of the Israeli jets. At this time, the Il-20 airplane making a maneuver for final approach towards the Hmeymim air base turned out to be into the path of Syrian air defence systems targeting the Israeli jets.

    It is to be stressed that the Israeli jets saw the Russian Il-20 and used it as a cover to evade from anti-aircraft missile and carried on maneuvering in the region.

    At 22:03 a Syrian anti-aircraft missile engaged a larger and closer target – Il-20 airplane. The commander reported on the fire on board and emergency descent. At 22:07 the Russian Il-20 survey airplane went off the radars. Meanwhile, the Israeli jets did not leave for their air space but stayed in the region and continued patrolling in the air till 22:40.

    At 22:29 an officer of the Russian group in Syria reported to the Israeli officer at the Air Force command post, “As a result of the attack carried out by the Israeli side, the Russian Il-20 aircraft is in distress. We demand that Israeli aircraft leave the region as we engage our rescue forces”. An Israeli lieutenant replied that he received the information and would forward it to the command.

    Only at 22:53 which is 50 minutes after the Il-20 was hit by a missile, a colonel (officer on duty) of the Israeli Air Force Command Centre came on the radio and reported: “We got your information on the Il-20 in distress. We left the zone. If you need assistance, we are ready to help”.

    The presented objective data testify that the actions of Israeli fighter pilots, which led to the loss of 15 Russian servicemen, and prove either lack of professionalism, or at least criminal negligence.


    Therefore, we believe that the blame for the tragedy with the Russian Il-20 aircraft lies entirely with the Israeli air forces and those who made the decision about this provocation.


    I would like to emphasize that the actions of the Israeli Air Force fighter aircraft in the evening of September 17 were carried out in the final approaches area to the Hmeymim airfield used not only by military but also civilian passenger aircraft.

    Thus, Israeli jets created a direct threat to any passenger and transport aircraft that could be there at that time and become victims of the adventurism of the Israeli military.


    Currently, at the crash site of the Russian Il-20, 27 kilometers west of the port of Banias, a search operation is carried out to retrieve bodies of the deceased, and wreckage from the water.

    Israeli pilots behaved extremely different from that of American aviation in the region.

    You know that we have a communication channel to prevent air incidents – the sides inform each other in advance about plans for the use of aviation in various areas of Syria. This enables us to take timely measures to exclude any situations that threaten Russian and American servicemen both in the air and on the ground.

    The Russian side has never violated the agreement with Israel and has not used Russian air defence weapons deployed in Syria, even despite the fact that Israel's air strikes caused cases that threatened security of Russian servicemen.

    During the course of the agreements, the Israeli Air Force Command Center received 310 notifications on the actions of the Russian military aviation close to the Israeli territory.

    At the same time, Israel gave only 25 notifications, just before the attacks.


    In the context of constructive Russian-Israeli cooperation in the Syrian Arab Republic, it is difficult for us to understand what caused these actions by Tel Aviv. This is an extremely ungrateful response to all that has been done by the Russian Federation for Israel and the Israelis recently.

    I would like to remind you that as a result of the operation conducted in the Southwestern de-escalation zone in Syria by government troops supported the Russian Air Force, this summer, the UN peacekeeping contingent deployed on borders between Syria and Israel in the Golan Heights was able to resume its work in accordance with the UN Security Council Resolution № 350 dated 1974.

    On August 2, 2018, after a six-year hiatus, the UN peacekeeping contingent accompanied by the Russian military police organised the first patrolling of the Golan Heights area.

    This allowed completely to exclude shelling attacks at Israeli territory from the Golan Heights.

    Currently, six observation posts of the Russian military police have been organised displayed along the “Bravo” line, which provide security for the staff of the UN mission.

    In order to prevent missile strikes from Iran-backed formations, Israel requested to settle situation in the area adjacent to the Golan Heights where Iran-backed formations deploy heavy weapons.

    Russia held consultations with Iran, during which Tehran notified that it did not consider it right to aggravate the situation in the area and had no aggressive intentions against Israel.

    As a result, all Iran-backed formations with heavy weapons, with the assistance of Russian servicemen, were withdrawn from the Golan Heights to a safe distance for Israel - more than 140 kilometers to the east of Syria.

    A total of 1,050 personnel, 24 MLRSs and tactical missiles, as well as 145 pieces of other armaments and military hardware were withdrawn from the area.

    At the request of Israel, the command of the Russian group in Syria repeatedly dispelled Israel’s concerns that so-called "sensitive" samples of military items shipped from Russia to Syria may be transferred to a third side.

    Israel has repeatedly stressed the importance of the work carried out by the Russian Ministry of Defence in this area and expressed gratitude to Russian specialists.

    In 2016, at the urgent request of the Chief of the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces, Lieutenant-General Gadi Eisenkot, the Israeli side was handed over the Magach-3 tank, captured in 1982 in Lebanon, and kept in Russia.

    The tank was transferred in presence of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    The Russian Ministry of Defence rendered assistance to preserve Jewish sacred objects and burials in the city of Aleppo.

    Interaction was carried out through President of the Federation of Jewish Communities (FJC) of Russia Alexander Boroda. - Mossad Asset. lol1

    This work was highly appreciated by the Israeli Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman. I'm sure...

    Besides, Israel appealed to Russia with a request to find the remains of Israeli servicemen at specific coordinates in Syria. The search works were organized after Russia agreed the search operation with Syrian partners at the operational level.

    The special search operation was conducted in the area of combat operations in the territory controlled by ISIS.
    lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 Terrorist suddenly attacked the Russian servicemen involved in searching operation. During the battle, a Russian special forces soldier was wounded. No Still Russia was ready to carry on the operation.

    Against this background, hostile actions taken by the Israeli Air Force, committed against the Russian Il-20 aircraft, go beyond the civilized relations.

    Objective data of September 17 events presented to you today show that the military leadership of Israel either does not appreciate the level of relations with Russia, or does not control individual commands and commanders who understood that their actions would lead to tragedy.

    Thank you for attention.”
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:08 pm

    LMFS wrote:MoD's briefing on the downing of the Il-20:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg9GliGS0RY

    That video certainly didn't pull any punches. Now we know why the SAA were firing for such a long time, not random by fools as reported but because the F-15s were still out there, not having run for home. That meeting in Moscow must have been way beyond icy.

    Note the very positive comment about dealings with the US as opposed to the comments on the Israelis.

    It is being reported that after the current Russian exercises in the eastern Med the Syrian coastal airspace is being closed up to 19,000 feet, a no fly zone in which any aircraft may be shot down. In addition Lebanon seems to have given permission to Syria to operate AA over their country.

    Also a report that a pair of Su-34 escorted IAF F-16s out of Lebanese airspace this morning. Only attack approach to Syria seems could be from the south and east.

    If true, Israel's world changed a bit on Monday. Putin is clearly playing the good cop whilst his military are playing 'gloves off' bad cop..
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    Post  Godric Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:21 pm

    a simple solution is for Russia to supply the Syrian air defence with the latest version of the S-300, modernise there radar capabilities, upgrade there BUKs and S-125 air defence systems and upgrade there command and control systems thus giving Syria a proper layered air defense system
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    Post  eehnie Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:04 pm

    Russia blamed clearly to Israel. There is not return. Russia is doing it because is ready to answer.

    Now, neither the Israeli media nor the pro-US and pro-Israel elements on internet will dictate the answer.
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    Post  Vann7 Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:37 pm

    And the MoD reports , clearly expose Israel special forces operations in Syria aiding ISIS...   l Laughing




    Russia doesn't have functional Laser AA systems.


    According to Putin , the Laser AA systems are operational ,in service in Moscu already ,and
    that will significantly increase the defense capabilities of Russia. So unless he was lying , and what he told is
    true.. then eventually this Laser AA systems will be a game changer event for the defense of military bases and cities. and Russian promotional material/videos  do comparisons with the American Laser AA system.. and say
    theirs is 10x times more powerful.and efficient and can be carried on planes. Energy weapons is the next big thing in the future of modern wars.. And is great that Russia is moving in that direction. I posted a report somewhere , from Sputnik news ,that Russia military is working in a giant laser cannon for Space defense.. to shot down satellites.. or ballistic missiles. Americans tried to mount lasers in their military cargo planes ,but the project was canceled.. for being too weak their system,was told in the report.. but that theirs version succeed and created one powerful and efficient laser gun. that can be carried on planes.



    Russia blamed clearly to Israel. There is not return. Russia is doing it because is ready to answer.

    Now, neither the Israeli media nor the pro-US and pro-Israel elements on internet will dictate the answer.

    yep.. the military version of the events prevailed.. Putin not even meet the Israel delegation.. and according to reports , they were just a few minutes , and the meeting was ended in very short time.. So things did not go well.
    So in the next few days or weeks.. it will be a matter of time , Israel planes get shot down by Russia..because
    they will continue the provocations ..  so relations will only get worse. Russian military will never forget this attack on their plane.. provoked by Israel. one Yars missile hit on telaviv.. is all that Russia needs to break the Israel state in pieces.. and the Israel military knows this.. They have no way to win in a full scale war against Russia. will need Americans support to defend against Russia ,but even with NATO support ,technically speaking, this will neither shield Israel from Russian hypersonic missiles penetrating Israel defenses.

    So how events could evolve in Syria ?

    -Israel continues provocations against Russia ,ignoring Russian demands.. to stop threatening
    their military security..
    - Russian airforce or AA defenses Shot down Israeli planes..
    - Israel retaliates and bomb Russia military base.. "in self defense they will claim"
    -Russia retaliates and strike Israel military bases..
    -Israel sink a warship of Russia
    -Putin show on TV telling Russians ,they tried everything ,but Israel is out of control and have declared war on Russia.. and the security of their entire nation is at risk..  and so that he have given the order of a major nuclear strike on Israel.
    - The fight is over and Israel state defeated..

    You also have the Iranian part.. Which Russia can use too.. so they strike first ,and then when Israel air defenses in need for a reloading.. BANG. Russia strike with a nuke.. I dont see IRAN staying quiet ,if Russia and Israel start a war.. they will take revenge too.. and using their forward positions in Syria ,they can guide all their missiles right to the heart of Israel.

    There are many other possible scenarios with Israel being the ones ,to strike first with nukes.. but which ever case is..  Israel will be in a major disadvantage.. their small state ,can't take too much damage.. and their nuclear reactors ,will be become a huge security problem for them.. So IRAN striking Israel nuclear reactors ,can do enough assymetric damage as if IRAN had nukes.. This is why ,Trump and Netanyahu are demanding IRAN to stop its ballistic conventional program.. they are right.. it do represent a major threat to their nation.. and so the conventional missiles of any other nation too..
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    Post  eehnie Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:50 pm

    Vann7 wrote:And the MoD reports , clearly expose Israel special forces operations in Syria aiding ISIS...   l Laughing


    Russia blamed clearly to Israel. There is not return. Russia is doing it because is ready to answer.

    Now, neither the Israeli media nor the pro-US and pro-Israel elements on internet will dictate the answer.

    yep.. the military version of the events prevailed.. Putin not even meet the Israel delegation.. and according to reports , they were just a few minutes , and the meeting was ended in very short time.. So things did not go well.
    So in the next few days or weeks.. it will be a matter of time , Israel planes get shot down by Russia..because
    they will continue the provocations ..  so relations will only get worse. Russian military will never forget this attack on their plane.. provoked by Israel. one Yars missile hit on telaviv.. is all that Russia needs to break the Israel state in pieces.. and the Israel military knows this.. They have no way to win in a full scale war against Russia. will need Americans support to defend against Russia ,but even with NATO support ,technically speaking, this will neither shield Israel from Russian hypersonic missiles penetrating Israel defenses.

    So how events could evolve in Syria ?

    -Israel continues provocations against Russia ,ignoring Russian demands.. to stop threatening
    their military security..
    - Russian airforce or AA defenses Shot down Israeli planes..
    - Israel retaliates and bomb Russia military base.. "in self defense they will claim"
    -Russia retaliates and strike Israel military bases..
    -Israel sink a warship of Russia
    -Putin show on TV telling Russians ,they tried everything ,but Israel is out of control and have declared war on Russia.. and the security of their entire nation is at risk..  and so that he have given the order of a major nuclear strike on Israel.
    - The fight is over and Israel state defeated..

    You also have the Iranian part.. Which Russia can use too.. so they strike first ,and then when Israel air defenses in need for a reloading.. BANG. Russia strike with a nuke..  I dont see IRAN staying quiet ,if Russia and Israel start a war.. they will take revenge too.. and using their forward positions in Syria ,they can guide all their missiles right to the heart of Israel.

    There are many other possible scenarios with Israel being the ones ,to strike first with nukes.. but which ever case is..  Israel will be in a major disadvantage.. their small state ,can't take too much damage.. and their nuclear reactors ,will be become a huge security problem for them..  So IRAN striking Israel nuclear reactors ,can do enough assymetric damage as if IRAN had nukes.. This is why ,Trump and Netanyahu are demanding IRAN to stop its ballistic conventional program.. they are right.. it do represent a major threat to their nation.. and so the conventional missiles of any other nation too..

    I do not think it has been two versions. Only military technicians analyzed the data and the situation. The argument of Russia about this case obviously can be only of military origin, and the answer of the Russian gouvernment is one and unified from the results of the military analysis of the event.

    The adventures of the Israeli air force in the Lebanese and Syrian (including the Golan) air space are finished. In fact this was a previous measure to the event. Now will be even more seriously enforced than before.

    It will be more consequences, but not over the Israeli paramilitary forces in the area, that are foreign and expendable for Israel and are being attacked to death also previously to the event. In fact these forces have been very seriously affected by the war with the fall of the southern front of this war until the limits of the neighbor countries+Golan+Al Tanf. Only the area of Al Tanf allows to paramilitary forces to control some territory in the Southern front. Some fake pockets are painted but the rebel activity is limited to infiltrations and some insurgency and the Syrian Armed Forces can move inside them with the required measures for self protection. Here there is little more to do.

    Instead, more consequences very likely will affect to the official Israeli military forces.

    The lose of the aircraft itself is not of high importance for the Russian Armed Forces, but the lose of the lives of the crew is very important.


    Last edited by eehnie on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  starman Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:55 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    -Israel continues provocations against Russia ,ignoring Russian demands.. to stop threatening
    their military security..

    Quite likely.


    - Russian airforce or AA defenses Shot down Israeli planes..

    Possible--would be nice to hear about but we can't assume it's coming.


    - Israel retaliates and bomb Russia military base.. "in self defense they will claim"

    I think at this point the US would step in and restrain Israel from major retaliation causing escalation.


    -Russia retaliates and strike Israel military bases..

    The US would try to prevent that...


    -Israel sink a warship of Russia

    But would find it hard if this happened.


    -Putin show on TV telling Russians ,they tried everything.....  and so that he have given the order of a major nuclear strike on Israel.

    I know it's real dumb, but the US would threaten to nuke Russia if it did that.

     So IRAN striking Israel nuclear reactors ,can do enough assymetric damage as if IRAN had nukes..

    Do Teheran's missiles really have sufficient accuracy for that?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:22 pm

    If they fire dozens, a few may score a hit.
    Putin may also warn Russian speaking emigrees, expatriates, students & tourists in Israel to leave by a certain date. That will start an exodus & send a loud & clear message to Netanyahu that his career may be coming to an end soon. Israel won the 6 Day War, but RF won the 5 Day War & truncated Western supplied Georgia.
    It may take them even less to truncate Western supplied Israel or end its existence.
    A similar condition was created in 1983 by the KAL007 incident in the RFE. Then, IRBMs & CMs were deployed in W. Europe & the Cold War continued till 1989.
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:58 pm

    Here comes the post meeting Israeli words, clearly no meeting of minds or agreement on what happened.

    On Sunday afternoon the IDF spokesman said that “An IDF delegation, led by the Commander of the Israeli Air Force, Maj. Gen. Amikam Norkin, presented the complete IDF After Action Review (AAR) of the downing of the Russian plane by Syrian anti-air fire to senior Russian military officers.”

    “The AAR was conducted and presented in a thorough, detailed and professional manner. The comprehensive, accurate and factual details are known to the relevant professionals in the Russian military, and they clearly state that:” the Spokesman tweeted.

    “The deconfliction mechanism operated in the relevant time-frame (as it has been operating over the last two and a half years); the IAF did not hide behind any aircraft and that the Israeli aircraft were in Israeli airspace at the time of the downing of the Russian plane.”

    “The continuation of the coordination is a shared interest in light of the various regional challenges.”

    “In addition, as we saw during this incident, the use of advanced weapons by irresponsible entities significantly endangers the area and can severely harm forces operating in the region.”

    The IDF spokesperson ended up his speech with ” The Israel military will continue to operate in accordance with the directives of the Israeli Government against Iran’s incessant attempts to establish itself in Syria and to arm the terrorist organization Hezbollah with lethal and accurate weapons.”


    https://en.muraselon.com/2018/09/israel-reacts-russian-statement-il-20/
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    Post  eehnie Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:12 pm

    JohninMK, your comment seems off-topic to me.

    JohninMK wrote:“In addition, as we saw during this incident, the use of advanced weapons by irresponsible entities significantly endangers the area and can severely harm forces operating in the region.”

    About this part, Israel fits well the role of "irresponsible" entity.
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:20 am

    eehnie wrote:JohninMK, your comment seems off-topic to me.
    Not sure why, please explain why Israeli comments on the downing of a Russian plane that was involved in ELINT operations over Idlib does not fit in this Russian intervention in Syria thread?
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:58 am



    This was a clear attack on Russia. The Israel airforce used a plane to provoke Syrian air defenses and then move at at similar altitude of the Russian plane.. using the Russian military plane as a shield.. This was an act of war ,
    and nobody should question this.. The only question left.. is how far Russia will go to punish Israel ,when they
    continue increasing the hostilities as they will do..

    -Because i expect more Israel hostilities and arrogance and provocations against Russia..
    -and i also Expect Russia to shutdown Israeli planes.. not if .. but when.. they could do it directly
    or through Syrian military..
    -But since is unlikely that Israel arrogance will allow them to backdown ,they will only increase more hostilities
    towards Russia.. It will not be unthinkable that Netanyahu nuke Damascus ,to send a message to Russia..

    Put im completely sure , Russia will not leave that unpunished and will retaliate with Nukes too at israel..

    So the question is when will this stop ? Israel arrogance is what is going to destroy Israel state.. because
    they will continue disrespecting Russia , threatening their soldiers.. and their base.. until they finally target
    Russia base.. So at this point.. Russia can declare a temporary very limited region war against Israel military only .. and declare ,that all military bases being used by Israel to target Russia to be fair targets..

    But Israel could retaliates with nukes.. so to reason with the israelis ,is like trying to reason with Animals..
    and they are driven not my common sense but by emotions an arrogance.. So the Russian military. is very very likely ,that they had secret red lines in place , of what to do if Israel attack Russia military base... even before Russia go to Syria.. and so The military had to have plans of when Nuclear weapons will have to be used.. Because
    they could provide nuclear weapons to Ukraine ,to threaten Russia. (not that it will work well ,Russia can intercept any Nuclear missile launched from Ukraine.. that is ascending to space.. and cruise missiles aimed at moscow neither will work .. Russia have to much density of air defenses.. for a cruise missile to get far inside Russia.
    In short ..dealing with Israel for Russia is like dealing with a sociopath.. that is unpredictable..and this erratic behavior of israel is what will make it possible for them to get nuked by Russia. . at any other stupid thing they do.. that cause the lives of Russian serviceman.. If Israel use nukes.. Russia can retaliate using Tactical small nukes to take down entire military bases in Israel and destroy their airforce..
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:07 am

    Nuking Israel will produce radioactive clouds that can move with prevailing winds towards Syria, Iraq, Turkey & Iran. It will also give US an excuse to nuke Iran. Conventional Kalibrs & other ALCMs will be enough to teach them a lesson.

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