Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:All this grooming from western websites where you can't call western mercs mercs... they get sensitive about how much money they get paid to kill people.

Perhaps they fear US police officers might get jealous about the pay difference in shooting ethnic minorities and take their jobs or something...

There's a big difference between PMCs and mercs. Learn it.

** drums rolling **

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** rimshot **

What would that be?

flamming_python wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:All this grooming from western websites where you can't call western mercs mercs... they get sensitive about how much money they get paid to kill people.

Perhaps they fear US police officers might get jealous about the pay difference in shooting ethnic minorities and take their jobs or something...

There's a big difference between PMCs and mercs. Learn it.

** drums rolling **

** drums rolling **

** rimshot **

What would that be?

A state-sanctioned contract, directly from a government body (e.g. DoD) or indirectly via private sector operating with a valid permit from authorities.
Mercs are more sketchy characters, operating under no such framework.

flamming_python wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:All this grooming from western websites where you can't call western mercs mercs... they get sensitive about how much money they get paid to kill people.

Perhaps they fear US police officers might get jealous about the pay difference in shooting ethnic minorities and take their jobs or something...

There's a big difference between PMCs and mercs. Learn it.

** drums rolling **

** drums rolling **

** rimshot **

What would that be?

Mercenaries work for themselves as individuals. There is nothing official.

If you talk about companies it means there is an official structure behind it which means the countries where they are created know about them and they let them do their bloody work. This is a bit more sensitive because it involves the country in the action of the companie.

A US guy fighting with kurds is just a guy who choosed to fight. Black waters mercenaries working for Irak means that US officials let the companies sign contract with Iraqis so it means USA are involved in Iraqi interior problems.

Wagner folk is probably on the PMC side, due to Assad paying their salaries. But their street cred is quite low within their country of origin (Ru), which I suspect doesn't quite approve their deployments. They can actually be considered as borderline-to-plain merc material, should Ru decide to prosecute them in court.

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:All this grooming from western websites where you can't call western mercs mercs... they get sensitive about how much money they get paid to kill people.

Perhaps they fear US police officers might get jealous about the pay difference in shooting ethnic minorities and take their jobs or something...

There's a big difference between PMCs and mercs. Learn it.

Actually there is none other than the fact that the U.S.A institutionalized the trade craft of mercs and placed a double-speak job title to fool the masses and to allow public discussion of such around congress without their faces melting down from moral decay. Makes it much easier to allocate money and "sell" those services worldwide. Freed the CIA of many hurdles and bureaucratic shenanigans.

Russia/other countries merely followed suit - unfortunately.

War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery....

ATLASCUB wrote:..........
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery....

And money is money

PapaDragon wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:..........
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery....

And money is money

The only ever constant.

GarryB wrote:

A state-sanctioned contract, directly from a government body (e.g. DoD) or indirectly via private sector operating with a valid permit from authorities.
Mercs are more sketchy characters, operating under no such framework.

Hahahahahahahahaha..excellent... so what you are saying is that like the US says there are good terrorists and bad terrorists, that there are also good mercs and bad mercs.


BTW these wonder mercs you are talking about were notorious for shooting first and then shooting second and then shooting third and never asking questions... they did all sorts of terrible shit and for the most part got away with it... occasionally their blatant murder of the local population could not be ignored and it went to court but did any even serve any time? I doubt it.

I said there's PMCs and mercs. As long as it's within a legal framework, it's PMC.
You get PMCs all over, oil rigs, pipelines, tankers, etc. It doesn't have to be your typical ''OMFGDelta!1!! they've invaded Iraq'' scenario.

Lots of interesting bits in this

Military.com 27 Mar 2018 By Oriana Pawlyk

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis on Tuesday said the U.S. has seen operations from Russian-affiliated forces in eastern Syria scaled back after U.S. fighter jets fired on hundreds of alleged Russian mercenaries who fought with U.S.-backed forces in early February. Mattis said the Defense Department has faith in the Russian officers who used the deconfliction line to tell U.S. counterparts the mercenaries were not under their control. "To this day, I have no evidence that they were being dishonest," he told reporters during an unscheduled briefing at the Pentagon. "We believe that, the Russian officers who tried to deconflict it and told us they weren't their forces, I think they were frankly being honest with us."

The U.S. on Feb. 7 launched significant air and firepower in response to what were believed to be pro-Assad forces attacking U.S.-backed Syrian Defense Forces in Deir el-Zour Province. The Air Force sent up F-22A Raptor advanced stealth fighters, along with MQ-9 Reaper drones, to watch as a three-hour battle began that day. "A variety of joint aircraft and ground-based artillery responded in defense of our SDF partners, including F-15E Strike Eagles," Lt. Col. Damien Pickart, Air Force Central Command spokesman, told Military.com at the time.

Just after the strike, officials said they were assessing how many pro-regime forces had been killed, but estimated the number was approximately 100. Other reports suggested that more than 200 were killed, with a number of news outlets saying the militants consisted of Russian mercenaries. Russia's foreign ministry at the time said some of its citizens died in the battle, but would not confirm they were contractors operating on behalf of the state. Mattis on Tuesday would not explicitly say the group in question is or has been made up of Russian contracted fighters.

The U.S. has observed "Russian elements like this" in recent weeks moving too close to the deconfliction zone, where the SDF operates to the west of the Euphrates River. Russian forces operate to the east near Deir el-Zour, Mattis said. Within the last week, "Those elements fell back, so we have also drawn off slightly in order to maintain the deconfliction between the elements there," he said. "Thanks to the Russian direction on that, this group has been reduced," Mattis said.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/03/27/fewer-russian-mercenaries-entering-syria-airstrike-mattis.html

kvs wrote:

America and its proxies (SDF) do not get to decide about "deconfliction" zones.    They have no legal basis to be on Syrian territory.
This is especially true now that the "rebels" are politically and militarily irrelevant.    The USA cannot use some minority element in a
country to invade it and operate by its own rules.   On the same basis anyone could invade the USA itself.

Russia is only playing a game.. to earn time .. so they can liberate other areas..
For Russia their main objective is to save Syria ,from being over run..and not to recover 100%
of Syria territory and after that ,help Syrian army to become stronger and to be well prepared to fight Americans..and push back them little by little from their territory. So is a long term goals war.. Eventually American citizens will get tired
of US presence in Syria and will demand US military to leave.

KiloGolf wrote:Wagner folk is probably on the PMC side, due to Assad paying their salaries. But their street cred is quite low within their country of origin (Ru), which I suspect doesn't quite approve their deployments. They can actually be considered as borderline-to-plain merc material, should Ru decide to prosecute them in court.

Don't be daft.
They're there with the blessings of the Russian government.

As to the level of their co-ordination with official Russia and its MoD, servicemen in Syria - that's anyone's guess.

Interesting Reports..

http://charly015.blogspot.com.es/2018/03/el-gps-falla-en-el-mediterraneo-oriental.html


On spanish ,but what it says is...

that GPS signal around Syria is
experiencing major issues.. since 2 months ago ,and that since 21 of march it have been more dramatic..
and that everyone is pointing fingers at Russia..  

also that during ZAPAD 2017 exercises in belarus ,of Russia military ,the same happened...





So it looks true the rumors that Russia can jam US GPS system..
So Sad that NATO don't have such capabilities..


Update..

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2015/05/31/guided-bomb-makers-anticipate-gps-jammers/

There says Pentagon have been aware of GPS jammers since 2011 at least..
That North Korea have them.. but also IRAN.. that they used to confuse the American supposed to be
"stealth drone"... And the solutions to counter GPS jammers are as follows..

1) Design Missiles that target GPS jammers..
-problem.. useless in zones with heavy air defenses like Syria and decoys to fool those
anti GPS jammers....

2)Laser guidance.. assistance on the cruise missiles..
-Problem ,you need to be close to the target ~10km and with line of sight..
and is useless in bad weather and if the special forces can't get close enough to the target..
Reason why Syria needs to clear territory as much as possible in Syria ,to push farther any
potential laser guided attacks on Syria military base.

3)TV camera assisted guidance...
-Problem.. lasers can blind /damage the optics in the cameras..
and if the missile is guided by radio, EW can jam the guidance too..
If the missile have automatic AI guidance ,not operated by control remote..
Russia can shot down the missile with its short air defenses.. or attack the missile
with direct energy attacks.. overwhelming the electronics..

So basically they even admit ,that there is no magic replacement for GPS guidance..
means NATO is really doomed.. if a fight with Russia. if they deploy all their EW toys..
Ballistic missiles or long range rocket artillery can be the better option ,but Russia have them too.

Vann7 wrote:Interesting Reports..

http://charly015.blogspot.com.es/2018/03/el-gps-falla-en-el-mediterraneo-oriental.html


On spanish ,but what it says is...

that GPS signal around Syria is
experiencing major issues.. since 2 months ago ,and that since 21 of march it have been more dramatic..
and that everyone is pointing fingers at Russia..  

also that during ZAPAD 2017 exercises in belarus ,of Russia military ,the same happened...





So it looks true the rumors that Russia can jam US GPS system..
So Sad that NATO don't have such capabilities..

It's easy to jam gps. You enen have cheap civilian GPS jammers. Military GPS is better but still easy to jam once you analyze the signal and russian had time to analyze it. Most of countries can make such a jammer.

Isos wrote:
It's easy to jam gps. You enen have cheap civilian GPS jammers. Military GPS is better but still easy to jam once you analyze the signal and russian had time to analyze it. Most of countries can make such a jammer.

One thing is toy GPS jammers.. and another thing is Military ones..
Russia can jam GPS apparently at least 600km away.. and this can't be done
easily by anyone.. This is a powerful  tool ,that can literary make next to useless
the entire inventory of NATO in cruise missiles and precision weapons that depends on GPS..
and this is not a small thing.. Failing by 1km ,10km to 50km your target is a total failure.
Iran for example managed to confuse the Boeing stealth DRONE to navigate deep inside IRAN
,when the drone wanted to return.  Allowing Iranians to capture it.  

And IRAN was using soviet era Jammers..they got from Russia. according to one Russian defense industry
worker , in a report. And the more time the missile is jammed and more distance needs to fly to the target,the more far away of the target it will be.

i think Russia is doing something much more crazy.. like sending radio attacks on the lower atmosphere layer ,that block satellite signals all the way in space.

Threat level of US strike returning to normal


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#BМФ Project 1135M #ЧФ BSF Krivak II Class frigate Pytlivy 868 returns from 18 days Mediterranean deployment: #RussianNavy frigate transits Bosphorus & enters the Black Sea 16:00Z. Built in Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad, Pytlivy is armed with Raduga SS-N-14 Silex quad launcher.

Russia has transferred to the Syrian Arab Republic up to 40 antiaircraft missile-gun complexes "Pantsir-S1".

There is little known about this contract: it was an export agreement, not a supply from the reserves of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, RIA Novosti reported citing its own source in the Russian military department.

ZRPK "Pantsir-S1" is a modern Russian complex of short-range air defense. He only needs 4-6 seconds to react to the air threat.

The arsenal of the complex includes two 30-millimeter automatic cannons. Their range is up to 4 kilometers. That is, "Pantsir-S1" uses them for close combat. And 12 guided missiles can reach an air target at a distance of up to 20 kilometers and at an altitude of up to 15 kilometers.

The crew of the complex - only 3 people. But if something happens to them, then "Pantsir-C1" is fully automated and is able to work without people at all. He will independently find and destroy any air targets that incorrectly respond to the request of "your-stranger".

NOTE: not sure of the total however there is evidence of some being delivered.

franco wrote:Russia has transferred to the Syrian Arab Republic up to 40 antiaircraft missile-gun complexes "Pantsir-S1".

There is little known about this contract: it was an export agreement, not a supply from the reserves of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, RIA Novosti reported citing its own source in the Russian military department.

ZRPK "Pantsir-S1" is a modern Russian complex of short-range air defense. He only needs 4-6 seconds to react to the air threat.

The arsenal of the complex includes two 30-millimeter automatic cannons. Their range is up to 4 kilometers. That is, "Pantsir-S1" uses them for close combat. And 12 guided missiles can reach an air target at a distance of up to 20 kilometers and at an altitude of up to 15 kilometers.

The crew of the complex - only 3 people. But if something happens to them, then "Pantsir-C1" is fully automated and is able to work without people at all. He will independently find and destroy any air targets that incorrectly respond to the request of "your-stranger".

NOTE: not sure of the total however there is evidence of some being delivered.

Well if it's true, then who will man it? And it takes time to implement it in AD network.

Situation is very, very serious in both Syria and elsewhere. I'll be going silent for a while.

Vann7 wrote:
So Sad that NATO don't have such capabilities..

You mean jamming capabilities against GLONASS - how do you know?

Will be interesting, our president said France will react and already hold talks with Trump. Looks like we will strike togetehr with the americans.

I hope some of the US and French cruise missile either by intent or mistake hits Russian military bases in Syria with many dozens of casualty on Russian side ,sorry for sounding evil but that’s the only way Russia will break away from its umbilical cord from the west and turn to China and india and Asian country and would redefine its relations with west for decades

I hope DT is listening and fires dozens of tomahawk at Russian bases he is impulsive guy and we can hope he takes such impulsive rash decision

Unless Putin and company does not get a tight slap from US as nikky Hayley says they would keep sucking up to the west at detriment of its own citizen

Why does Russia don't raise military readiness to RED on all territory? Especially on western district?