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    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:52 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Some sort of test expected at Nenoksa....possibly Burevestnik


    Villagers advised by military to evacuate Nenoksa ahead of missile test
    https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2020/07/nenoksa-village-gets-evacuation-order-ahead-missile-launch

    Is there a shortage of space in Russia? Can't they do this somewhere else?

    Not only are they fucking around with people for no good reason but they are also screwing up OPSEC


    They must have facilities there
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:57 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Some sort of test expected at Nenoksa....possibly Burevestnik


    Villagers advised by military to evacuate Nenoksa ahead of missile test
    https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2020/07/nenoksa-village-gets-evacuation-order-ahead-missile-launch

    Is there a shortage of space in Russia? Can't they do this somewhere else?

    Not only are they fucking around with people for no good reason but they are also screwing up OPSEC


    They must have facilities there

    Nenoksa is fairly close by to the Plesetsk Cosmodrome,  they're both located in the Arkhangelsk Oblast.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyonoksa
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesetsk_Cosmodrome
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    Post  dino00 Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 pm

    US urged Russia to stop developing "flying Chernobyls" Very Happy

    "We believe that such weapons should not exist at all. Why have a nuclear-powered cruise missile at all? This is nothing more than a flying Chernobyl. Just imagine what kind of radioactive release (she) will create during the flight,"
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:05 pm

    dino00 wrote:US urged Russia to stop developing "flying Chernobyls" Very Happy

    "We believe that such weapons should not exist at all. Why have a nuclear-powered cruise missile at all? This is nothing more than a flying Chernobyl. Just imagine what kind of radioactive release (she) will create during the flight,"

    It's called a weapon of war you f*ckwits. Like you cunts cared about your conventional cruise missile attack on the oil storage and
    petrochemical facilities at Pancevo in 1999. Contaminating the countryside and residential areas with carcinogens, teratogens and
    mutagens is A-OK as long as you do it. Clearly the NATO west is diseased with the crusader superiority complex.

    More people died due to the Bhopal disaster than will ever die from Chernobyl.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:03 pm

    dino00 wrote:US urged Russia to stop developing "flying Chernobyls" Very Happy ...

    That's the whole purpose of the damn thing

    And they aren't developing flying Chernobyls, they are developing flying Hiroshimas, they should at least do their homework before criticizing

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:43 am

    I smell panic from the Murican Deep State.

    I like it... Twisted Evil

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:57 am

    And they aren't developing flying Chernobyls, they are developing flying Hiroshimas,

    Why would those evil Russians want to murder us innocent westerners... just because we started WWIII and hope to hide behind a ballistic missile shield which we are spending more money on than we spend on the health and welfare of our own citizens... if they go ahead with those we will have to spend a whole lot more money defending from cruise missiles too... the obvious solution of not attacking them in the first place so they will never be used never enters their heads...
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    Post  kvs Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:26 am

    GarryB wrote:
    And they aren't developing flying Chernobyls, they are developing flying Hiroshimas,

    Why would those evil Russians want to murder us innocent westerners... just because we started WWIII and hope to hide behind a ballistic missile shield which we are spending more money on than we spend on the health and welfare of our own citizens... if they go ahead with those we will have to spend a whole lot more money defending from cruise missiles too... the obvious solution of not attacking them in the first place so they will never be used never enters their heads...

    Russia as any sort of threat is the fantasy of the diseased minds of the western elites. Even between WWII and 1991, Russia as part of
    the USSR was no sort of threat. That it exported regime change to western colonies means squat. The colonialist west was busy installing
    death squad juntas around the world (from Indonesia, to Iran, to Latin America). As Reagan used to quip, it takes two to tango.

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    Post  Arrow Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:17 pm

    https://twitter.com/PararamTadam/status/1288413518786629632
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    Post  kvs Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:32 pm



    Funny how the NATzO sycophants in Russia are still chirping that Burevestnik is a Putin cartoon hoax when their idols in
    NATzO (Five Eyes) have fully accepted the reality of this weapons system. Somebody needs to send the Russian 5th column
    a memo. Like with the non-existence of the Kerch Strait bridge, they are totally detached from reality.

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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:48 pm

    They said same thing about avangard until it became active duty.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:05 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:They said same thing about avangard until it became active duty.

    Buravestnik already has official NATO designation (Skyfall) only couple of years after being revealed

    In comparison it took a over a decade after Su-57s first flight to get one (Felon)

    So that would be indication enough that they are not only fully aware that the missile is real but I'd say it also means that development (and introduction) is much much further along than anyone is admitting

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    Post  Isos Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:26 pm

    Good name Skyfall !! lol1
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    Post  Hole Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:37 pm

    When the missile is officialy put into service I could bet one of the first to be shown will wear the number 007. Very Happy
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:37 pm

    Burevestnik, Peresvet, and Poseidon were more or less apart of the same development cycle under Rosatom, which developed their NPP's. I bet all their power plant's are related to each other in some form or another, which means if their NPP's are related developments, that makes the likelihood of Burevestnik's introduction much greater to a certain degree.

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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:36 am

    https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1210186/burevestnik-testing-to-resume/

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    Post  LMFS Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:24 am

    About the “Sudden Disappearance” of a US Megalopolis

    It makes no sense to extend START-3 at the cost of abandoning the most promising weapons

    When in 2018, the Russian president first announced the development of new types of weapons in Russia, western experts unanimously claimed that this is fiction, “Putin’s cartoons“. But for two and a half years, the means of objective control of western, mainly, of course, American intelligence services that monitor the tests of the latest Russian weapons have produced a revolution of consciousness in the west, a radical change of emotions from irony to concern, to say the least – banal fear.

    “Burevestnik”, namely the product 9M730 (according to the NATO classification-SSC-X-9 Skyfall), which is being developed in the Ekaterinburg design bureau “Novator”, has become a reality for the west. It has not yet entered service, but it seems to be a matter of the near future. The stalled negotiations on the extension of START-3 also show this. One of the conditions of the new treaty is to include a nuclear-powered cruise missile with no range restrictions.

    It does exist


    President Vladimir Putin and the Russian Defence Ministry also say that Russia already has such a missile equipped with a small-sized nuclear engine.

    French military expert Corentin Brustlein said: “The nuclear engine removes restrictions on the amount of fuel, which allows the missile to use trajectories that are not tracked by the enemy and strike weakly protected objects. Naturally, the presence of such a missile will allow to break through the enemy’s missile defence system. In the increasingly complex global military and political situation, this will be a very serious trump card.” At first, the west was more skeptical about the prospects of the Russian missile. By the summer of 2020, it was replaced by wariness. For example, the special representative of the US president for arms control, Marshall Billingslea, said that such weapons should not exist at all, since they represent “flying Chernobyl”.

    This was followed in September 2020 by a statement from the head of British military intelligence, Lieutenant General James Hockenhull. He stressed that the “Burevestnik” missile is capable of staying in the air for almost unlimited time, which allows for unexpected strikes on targets.
    They don’t have it, and we don’t need it

    The western press organised a campaign to discredit the latest Russian weapons, in the information war, all means are good, and not only in the west, but also in our country. Moreover, not only “sofa experts” and bloggers are involved, but also authoritative heavyweights.

    Here’s what Vladimir Dvorkin says: “In any real scenario, the ‘Burevestnik’ cruise missile will not be able to make any contribution to Russia’s nuclear deterrent potential provided by the existing nuclear weapons triad. At the same time, it should be borne in mind that the probability of successful flight of cruise missiles with a much shorter flight duration compared to ‘Burevestnik‘ is noticeably lower compared to the samples of weapons in the strategic nuclear forces”. And more: “The systems ‘Poseidon’ and ‘Burevestnik‘. Their tests are in the initial stage and the time frame for possible acceptance into service is likely to be beyond the duration of the extended START-3 treaty. But their inclusion in a hypothetically possible new treaty could be considered if there are similar systems or other new models in the US that are subject to control and do not violate the overall balance of deterrence capabilities. Today, the possibility of achieving a solution to this problem is extremely difficult, rather impossible”. I.e., if the Americans do not have similar weapons or they are unable to create them in the foreseeable future, then we should abandon it. Otherwise, the Americans will refuse to extend START-3 or sign a new treaty. Do we need a treaty that benefits only the US and limits our capabilities?

    The missile is invisible

    The main criticism in the western press is “Poseidon” and “Burevestnik” are the most effective models created in recent times. “Poseidon” cannot be intercepted or destroyed by modern US navy weapons, and “Burevestnik” cannot be detected and intercepted after launch by modern radar and optoelectronic detection and targeting systems. The 9M730 “Burevestnik” missile appears as a ghost for a moment and disappears just as instantly. It can be detected by specialised DSP-4 satellites only at the time of launch, while the launch solid-fuel accelerator is running – this is no more than three seconds. But unlike ICBMs, they will lose trace of it immediately. They are quite successful in detecting and tracking ICBMs because of the long active stage – from 180 to 300 seconds in time, which is enough to build a mathematical model of the trajectory. This is not surprising, since these satellites were originally intended to detect ICBM launches. In contrast to the usual “Tomahawk” or “Kalibr” type cruise missiles, whose cruising flight takes place at an altitude of 6,000 meters, both one and the other, only the final stage of the route (about 80 km for the “Tomahawk”) passes at altitudes from 30 to 150 meters, depending on the terrain in the target area. This flight profile, which is called High-Low, is a classic for all cruise missiles – from anti-ship to strategic. For subsonic and transonic cruise missiles, the optimal cruising altitude (echelon) is 6,000-7,000 meters. At this altitude, the missile travels the longest path with the lowest fuel consumption. Examples of missiles flying at this level: the already mentioned “Tomahawk” and “Kalibr” of all modifications, strategic air-based missiles Kh-101/102, Kh-555, AGM-86B ALCM, as well as anti-ship P-500 (4M80) “Bazalt”, P-1000 (3M70) “Vulkan”, P-35 (4M44) “Progress”, etc. For supersonic missiles (with flight speeds of M=2.5-3.0), the optimal level is considered to be 12,000-14,000 meters. It is at this height that the anti-ship cruise missile P-700 (3M45) “Granit”, P-800 (3M55) “Oniks” and strategic nuclear ASMP, ASMP-A (ASN4G) travel most of the way. For hypersonic missiles (with flight speeds from M=5.0 and higher), the optimal level is 28,000-30,000 meters.

    “Burevestnik” for the chop

    The range of “Tomahawk” missiles is officially for the conventional version 1,000 English miles (1,600 km), this value is an operational range that takes into account such factors as manoeuvring around protected areas, deviations from the course in order to fly over a predetermined territory (adjustment areas) to update information in inertial guidance systems, vertical manoeuvring to avoid obstacles, fuel requirements, flying at higher than optimal speeds through protected areas and flying at low altitudes. The straight-line aerodynamic range of the “Tomahawk” is just over 2,000 kilometres, provided that the entire flight takes place at high altitudes, where the fuel consumption for turbofan engines is three times lower than at low and ultra-low altitudes.

    “Burevestnik” spends the entire flight route, regardless of its length, whether it is 10,000 or 20,000 kilometres, at altitudes from 50 to 100 meters at a cruising speed of about 800-850 kilometres per hour. Probably, the maximum speed due to the specifics of the operation of a nuclear jet engine can reach up to 1100-1300 kilometres per hour. American physicist Jeff Terry called the estimated power of the missile’s nuclear engine 766 kilowatts, which is quite comparable to the power of compact nuclear engines of the new generation. 1,000 horsepower of power corresponds to a thrust of about 1,000 kilograms, which is quite enough for a subsonic cruise missile with a starting weight of 4500-5000 kilograms. The missile does not need to fly at high altitude, it unmasks it. Thus, “Burevestnik” is deprived of the main drawback of all existing strategic missiles, subsonic, supersonic and even hypersonic, which are easily detected on the main stages of flight long before the approach to the target. “Burevestnik” has an almost unlimited range reserve, which allows it to bypass air defence zones (A2/AD) without any problems, and enter the airspace of a potential enemy from any direction. To the US, for example, from the Mexican border.
    A country with no air defence

    It should be noted that there is no continuous radar field over the US. The fleet of fighter-interceptors consists of 240 F-22A, F-15C, and F-16C aircraft. In the USSR at the end of the 80s there was a system of air defence with a solid radar field over the entire territory, controlled by 800 radars of various types, at the disposal of 2500 fighter-interceptors and 10,000 anti-aircraft guided missile launch sites. It is worth noting that after the US authorities realised the threat that arose in the late 50s and early 60s from a large number of Soviet ICBMs, it was decided to abandon a powerful air defence system, including a large number of SAMS deployed in the country. According to former US Secretary of Defence Schlesinger, “if they can’t protect their cities from strategic missiles, then they shouldn’t even try to create protection from the small bomber aircraft of the USSR”. There is only a more or less continuous radar field of civil air traffic. Very specific, it should be noted. The control of air space is very poorly organised, especially for unknown targets that are not identified by transponders. Civilian airfield radars do not at all see small-sized targets flying at ultra-low altitudes (less than 60 meters. This is often used by owners of unregistered small aircraft, which in the US, according to police estimates, is in the tens of thousands. They clog and complicate the monitoring of US airspace to such an extent that it is most likely that the control of airspace at ultra-low altitudes is carried out formally, i.e., not at all.

    At the moment, the NORAD system is engaged in radar monitoring of the air situation over the territory of the continental US and Canada only for ballistic targets in the interests of missile defence. Mobile radars are used to control the airspace of aerodynamic targets, and up to 12 air defence fighters and two or three AWACS aircraft are constantly in the air. That’s all the air defence of the US.
    READ: Russia Returns to the Indian Ocean – a Navy Base Will Appear in the Red Sea

    The standard NATO long-range radar detection aircraft, the AWACS E-3C/D/F/G, will detect a “Tomahawk” or “Kalibr” at a range of 240 to 320 kilometres, depending on the target’s angle and altitude. But the “Burevestnik” – at a range of no more than 32 kilometres (20 miles), if it is at the right time in the right place and immediately loses it, since western experts estimate the circular error probable of the missile at the level of Kh-101 and AGM-129A from 0.01 (flank projection) to 0.001 m2 (front projection). The missile will only flash on the radar screen and disappear, the operator has no choice but to take this flash for a flock of birds or a large wave. This is exactly what it looks like. The body of the missile is made using “Stels” technology, the cross section of the fuselage is an inverted trapezoid, the signal reflected from the missile in the side projection goes under it, and does not return to the radar antennas, and this is at a flight altitude of 25-50 meters. Due to the specifics of the laws of aerodynamic flight at hypersonic speeds, the “Tsirkon” is made of heat-resistant materials with a large number of fuselage elements and aerodynamic surfaces made of titanium and steel alloys, the structure is made of straight lines and sharp corners. In general, a solid, huge “corner reflector”, according to the most modest effective scattering area estimates of about 15 m2, such an object, and even flying at an altitude of up to 30 kilometres, E-3C will detect at a range of 500 to 600 kilometres. The only advantage of the “Tsirkon” is its speed, i.e., it is easy to detect, but it is difficult to shoot down.

    The only reliable way to detect the “Burevestnik” missile is by the radioactive trace it leaves on its way – the isotopes of iodine-131, ruthenium-103, caesium-134 and caesium-137, but the detection of this trace will occur on the third or fourth day, when the radioactive elements reach the upper atmosphere. Given the two-megaton special warhead, “Burevestnik” is the only one of all the “Putin cartoons” that if used the US will only know about it when one of its major megalopolises suddenly disappears along with the entire population. And then it becomes understandable, such “close attention” precisely to this missile from the western media and from our “fifth column”, as well as the clearly organised campaign for its discreditation. 9M730 “Burevestnik” is the ideal deterrent weapon, the enemy will always be convinced, whatever their intentions towards Russia, that a “response” is inevitable and inevitable.

    Each of the latest Russian weapons created recently has its own undeniable advantages, but there are also disadvantages, and it is necessary to think hard before sacrificing any type of weapon for a new START.

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/about-the-sudden-disappearance-of-a-us-megalopolis/

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    Post  kvs Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:17 am

    By no means should Russia surrender this weapon to its historical enemies. NATzO was dick stroking during the 1980s that its
    cruise missiles would render the USSR defenseless. Well, now they can chew on some of their own shit.

    It Putin accepts some compromise on any of the new missiles he will undo most of what he has achieved. NATzO has not
    stopped trying after 1990 to neutralize Russia's nuclear potential in order to win a nuclear war. There are enough decades,
    seven of them, to prove without question what the intentions of the USA are. American freaks make no distinction between
    Russia and the USSR, they even used the same name for both: Russia. And they are rabid imperialists bent on world domination.
    For real.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:58 am

    LMFS wrote:Due to the specifics of the laws of aerodynamic flight at hypersonic speeds, the “Tsirkon” is made of heat-resistant materials with a large number of fuselage elements and aerodynamic surfaces made of titanium and steel alloys, the structure is made of straight lines and sharp corners. In general, a solid, huge “corner reflector”, according to the most modest effective scattering area estimates of about 15 m2, such an object, and even flying at an altitude of up to 30 kilometres, E-3C will detect at a range of 500 to 600 kilometres. The only advantage of the “Tsirkon” is its speed, i.e., it is easy to detect, but it is difficult to shoot down.

    This a bit of supposition on the authors part due to:

    1.) He thinks that the plasma cloud generated from Zircon's hypersonic flight would reflect radar waves easily.

    2.) He doesn't realize that Zircon is derived from systems like the Kh-80/90, and specifically the Kh-90 had it's own plasma cloud generator device that basically significantly enhanced the formation of plasma clouds around the missile and it's ability to absorb radar waves. Such a device could be incorporated in to Zircon.

    3.) Kh-90 had it's own towed decoy, and probably other ECM. No doubt they'd tried incorporate several forms of ECM to mask and distract from the presence of Zircon's flight. They were used to mask Burevestnik's existence from Western intelligence prior to March 2018, no doubt they can be utilized with Zircon.

    4.) Apparently Topol-M's warhead could emit electro-magnetic opaque aerosol (designed for hypersonic objects) to help mask it's presence from sensors, even effective with IRST. EM-opaque aerosols could be incorporated in to Zircon.

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    Post  kvs Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:48 am

    These experts need to get a proper physics education. Plasma damps EM but does not block it. The reason it damps EM waves
    is because it absorbs some fraction of the incoming photons and then re-emits them in other frequencies. The magic of charged
    particles not acting like atoms when it comes to interaction with EM.

    There is also not much plasma generated at lower altitudes since the electrical neutralization rate is very high. Charge formation is
    quickly followed by neutralization of the very same charge pairs thanks to the high ambient density. You can see this density effect
    in the concentration of charged particles increasing with altitude. That is not just because there is more ionization aloft.

    At the end of the day this the same issue as with stealth. Sure, if you only use one frequency for both scanning and detection
    you will have loss of observablity to some extent, but if you are dealing with modern detection systems it is not such a show stopper.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:27 am

    The thing is that normal Russian anti ship missiles were designed for high speed because the targets they were expecting to attack are US carrier groups which have their own AWACS and large surface based AESA radar and SAM batteries and all the defences US cities and EU cities DON'T have.

    These anti ship missiles relied on the combination of speed an numbers to get through... Zircon doesn't need numbers and it does not matter if its launch is recorded in 3D HD 8K video... detection and tracking is the least of their problems...

    And Zircon is the first and a Naval weapon... strategic and theatre weapons to come... imagine 10 ton 14,000km range hypersonic cruise missiles carried bundled 10 to a train carriage... that fly at mach 16...
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    Post  LMFS Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:08 pm

    I found the article interesting, especially the thought, that I had still not realized until reading it, that the energy availability of the nuclear propulsion allows for a continuous low flight with all the great implications it has. So if the US wants to be ready against such weapons, they will certainly need to start expending massively in homeland AD instead of aggression, so it is indeed a great idea that should NEVER be exchanged for vapid and worthless promises of a better future by US.

    That does not mean the article is watertight, and I agree there is probably more regarding plasma stealth in the Tsirkon than what has been said, but I agree with Garry and the article that that is not the main point at this moment, since the missile can hardly be stopped. If radar does not get it, IR satellites will certainly do (see latest US roadmap vs. hypersonic weapons based on space observation), because of unavoidable physical reasons. As to the effect of plasma itself, it seems indeed there is a certain EM frequency limit, depending of the temperature of the plasma, that can go through it or not. That relates to the guidance of the missile but also to the radars being able to detect it.

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    Post  dino00 Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:12 pm

    It is a good article, and the most important part on Burevestnik is the continuous low altitude flight, how can the US defend against it?
    They can spend a tremendous amount of money, or they can stay defenseless.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:47 pm

    dino00 wrote:It is a good article, and the most important part on Burevestnik is the continuous low altitude flight, how can the US defend against it?
    They can spend a tremendous amount of money, or they can stay defenseless.

    Or maybe they can dial down their insane aggressive ambitions at world domination.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:02 pm

    LMFS wrote:I found the article interesting, especially the thought, that I had still not realized until reading it, that the energy availability of the nuclear propulsion allows for a continuous low flight with all the great implications it has. So if the US wants to be ready against such weapons, they will certainly need to start expending massively in homeland AD instead of aggression, so it is indeed a great idea that should NEVER be exchanged for vapid and worthless promises of a better future by US.

    That does not mean the article is watertight, and I agree there is probably more regarding plasma stealth in the Tsirkon than what has been said, but I agree with Garry and the article that that is not the main point at this moment, since the missile can hardly be stopped. If radar does not get it, IR satellites will certainly do (see latest US roadmap vs. hypersonic weapons based on space observation), because of unavoidable physical reasons. As to the effect of plasma itself, it seems indeed there is a certain EM frequency limit, depending of the temperature of the plasma, that can go through it or not. That relates to the guidance of the missile but also to the radars being able to detect it.

    The thing is that Topol-M's warhead could emit electro-magnetic opaque aerosols (or cosmosols) that greatly obscures/mask it's IR signature. It probably doesn't completely make it's heat signature invisible to IRST, but most definitely making it's detection much later in the game, to the point where detecting them wouldn't even give enough time to react. Nothing stops them from incorporating them in to Zircon.

    Cosmosols
    Heterogeneous (inhomogeneous) systems of solid particles, ranging in size from 10-3 to n.10 cm, suspended in outer space. To., Depending on their purpose, can be camouflage and protective. Camouflage spacecraft are used to hide the unmasking features of spacecraft (SC) and missile warheads in a wide range of electromagnetic waves, to simulate false space targets, and protective ones to protect spacecraft and warheads from beam weapons (laser and beam).

    The masking properties of K. are based on their ability to reflect, absorb, and emit electromagnetic waves in the optical, thermal, millimeter, and centimeter ranges. The protective properties depend on the ability of the particles to absorb the electromagnetic waves of a laser weapon both in the solid state and during the transition to the gaseous phase as a result of heating by the absorbed energy. Protection against beam weapons is provided by the property of K. to absorb and weaken the flow of particles, neutral hydrogen atoms or electrons. Devices for the use of spacecraft are placed on board the spacecraft or the missile warhead and are activated in advance.

    http://encyclopedia.mil.ru/encyclopedia/dictionary/details_rvsn.htm?id=13375@morfDictionary

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p475-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research#264485

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