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    "Poseidon" Nuclear-armed Underwater Drone

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:14 pm

    For something like the Poseidon, the ball bearings can be truly exotic and common ones are not necessarily good point of reference.
    I wonder if dry bearings are possible where the lubricant is some graphene powder. Exposure of bearings to ocean water
    is dicey since the water is not pristine setting aside the salt and dissolved mineral issue. The Poseidon does not need
    to worry about compromised seals since it is not planned to gouge ice or the seabed with its propeller. So oil filled bearings
    are viable. But they have to be zero maintenance. This is not such a challenge considering that people drive their cars
    for years without maintaining the bearings.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:38 pm

    Yeah, I said they "will" use water-lubricated bearing when I should have said that such tech is plausible. Too much haste in commenting I fear... In any case I don't see the engineering difficulties in lubricating Poseidon motor/turbine shaft bearings (and shaft seals) as any more problematic than for electric slow-speed propulsors on SSN/SSBNs.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:43 am

    Rambet/scramjet means high speeds and high temperatures because of air friction so unlikely to be sustainable duribg a long time.

    A ramjet is a type of jet engine and while it is certainly optimised for higher speeds it does not require much more than highway speeds to start and operate.

    Early ramjet tests included some rather slow aircraft...

    "Poseidon" Nuclear-armed Underwater Drone - Page 17 I-15_r12

    Oil is need for even electrical motors since there is a rotating part that turns on a non mobil part, so there is frictions. No oil means they touch each other and quickly get destroyed.

    I have had racing car and electric train sets since I was a little boy and I have never once put oil in any of their electric motors...

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    Post  Arrow Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:49 am

    In fact, Poseidon can be launched from the shore from naval bases.  Is it somewhere in Actica or in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.  This unlimited range drone will reach its target anyway. You don't even need a ship.
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:00 pm

    1 launcher every 200km on the northern cost would allow a secondary nuclear strike possibility. It would be very hard to attack many launchers spread accross the country at the same time.

    They also have plenty of military islands there where they could put Poseidon launchers.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:25 pm

    Exactly though Poseidon is a second-strike weapon. So it's safe on submarines. Although in some bases it should survive the first US strike. In addition, they can fire them from bases before a nuclear strike occurs. They will be on standby in the bases.
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:55 pm

    Arrow wrote:  Exactly though Poseidon is a second-strike weapon.  So it's safe on submarines.  Although in some bases it should survive the first US strike.  In addition, they can fire them from bases before a nuclear strike occurs.  They will be on standby in the bases.

    ICBM generally fly for 30min before reaching their targets. Plenty of time tobput Poseidons into water and get to a safe distance where they can wait for orders at the surface.

    It is a safe reprorgrammable second strike option.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:52 am

    A roll on roll off ferry or helicopter landing ship could have half a dozen Poseidons in the rear bay where the hovercraft and landing ships are launched... sail out of port and push them out the rear and start them up.

    You could fill an enormous container ship with 50 of them and have it sailing randomly around the world and when needed it gets a command and the ship is scuttled and explosive charges blow it open to allow the poseidons launch in mid ocean... they could leave the ship and scatter in all directions... after the ship is approaching the sea bed...

    There are lots of options but actually Thunderbird offers more options and potential... a nuclear powered cruise missile... could be launched deep inside Russia protected by its IADS network... flying at low altitude at high speed it would be difficult to deal with even if it wasn't WWIII.

    I would assume a ramjet type propulsion system where the air is sucked in the intake and heated with the nuclear pile and exhausted out the rear... which means no combustion so it is essentially a scramjet because the airflow through the engine could be supersonic.... so instead of flying very low, why not fly very high and much much faster?

    All good areas of technology to develop to ensure no one thinks they can attack Russia and get away with it scot free.
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:51 am

    The Poseidon drone has an enormous payload capacity for megaton bombs and a 1 km diving capability - perfect for a cable cutter.

    Russia would get a lot of utility by holding the submarine cables that the western world relies heavily for communications hostage. If the west threatens sanctions - cut some cable, and watch them soy sperg over billions of dollars per hour in financial losses.

    Best part is this vulnerability is entirely asymmetrical: Russia is not as reliant on underwater cables as the collective west does since it sits on the largest contiguous landmass on the planet. Cut some overland fiber optic cable and some dude in a van would be splicing that shit in an hour. Underwater cables under a km of water, not so much.

    Its also almost entirely unfeasible to stop. There's not nearly enough hulls in the collective western navies that you can tail every Poseidon drone - and you can't even think about patrolling the thousands of kms of cables.

    Lastly, physically turning off the internet should be one hell of a good card to play in trying to avert WW3. Bombers aren't nearly as useful as a signalling tool compared to literally pulling everyone off the matrix. That should at least get some people to think about their impending mortality and actually do something about it, like overthrowing their governments. Twisted Evil




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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:18 pm

    It is a doomsday weapon so I suppose in comparison to flooding large areas of enemy territory coastline that wouldn't be that big a deal, but once you start doing shit like that then the idiots on the other side will feel free to retaliate and escalate with some even more stupid things.

    Cutting cables is disruptive, and counter productive unless the goal is to isolate Russia from the rest of the world.

    I would certainly make them aware that this is a possible use, but there should only be one actual use for these drones.

    The best thing Russia could do is stop interacting with the west and engage with the rest of the world for trade and relations and let the west fester and die on its own.

    If it wants to grow up and treat Russia and Putin with respect then talking is the way to go, but if not, then not talking is the best option.
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    Post  Stefane Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:56 am

    Cable cutting being disruptive would be precisely the point.

    Disruptive w/o directly killing people or destroying anything on land.

    The adversary not being able to respond symmtrically would put them in a difficult position.
    Russia does not even have any other kind of infrastructure that could be attacked in a similar
    manner w/o going for all-out nuclear war. The problem for the adversary is that it's all on land.
    Trying to do something equally disruptive to the power grid or similar would require far greater
    resources than just a few missiles or so, and it would incur gigantic collateral damage.
    Retaliation to the collateral damage would be guaranteed.

    The undersea communication cables are the West's achilles heel. Cutting them would collapse
    the financial system immediately. Lights could go out quite literally. The West is not prepared for
    any of the hardships that would bring, not at all. Western societies are also social powder kegs
    far more than Russia is. With a collapsed economy, rioting would occur all over the place. It would
    be uncontrollable. Cities would burn w/o Russia firing anymore missiles.
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    Post  Hole Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:55 am

    Already happening in the US without cable cutting. pirat
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    Post  George1 Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:56 am

    Stefane wrote:Cable cutting being disruptive would be precisely the point.

    Disruptive w/o directly killing people or destroying anything on land.

    The adversary not being able to respond symmtrically would put them in a difficult position.
    Russia does not even have any other kind of infrastructure that could be attacked in a similar
    manner w/o going for all-out nuclear war. The problem for the adversary is that it's all on land.
    Trying to do something equally disruptive to the power grid or similar would require far greater
    resources than just a few missiles or so, and it would incur gigantic collateral damage.
    Retaliation to the collateral damage would be guaranteed.

    The undersea communication cables are the West's achilles heel. Cutting them would collapse
    the financial system immediately. Lights could go out quite literally. The West is not prepared for
    any of the hardships that would bring, not at all. Western societies are also social powder kegs
    far more than Russia is. With a collapsed economy, rioting would occur all over the place. It would
    be uncontrollable. Cities would burn w/o Russia firing anymore missiles.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:40 pm

    Cable cutting being disruptive would be precisely the point.

    The immediate response would likely be cutting Russian access to the internet and other international "services" which would be rather damaging for Russia.

    The core problem I have is that it is destructive and apart from damaging the west it really does not help Russia at all.

    Severing ties with the west on teh other hand forces Russian companies to become more independent and also will break routes through which the west can try to corrupt Russia like their NGOs and funding.

    The adversary not being able to respond symmtrically would put them in a difficult position.

    They can respond symmetrically... Russia has underwater communications cables too.

    She also has underwater Sonar bed arrays the west could damage too.

    Russia does not even have any other kind of infrastructure that could be attacked in a similar
    manner w/o going for all-out nuclear war. The problem for the adversary is that it's all on land.

    Pretty sure it is not all on land.

    Trying to do something equally disruptive to the power grid or similar would require far greater
    resources than just a few missiles or so, and it would incur gigantic collateral damage.
    Retaliation to the collateral damage would be guaranteed.

    All the sanctions the west has imposed on Russia these last 20 odd years have been aimed at causing an economic collapse... do you really think they care about collateral damage? When the US blocks medicine access to Iran do you think they care about the cancer patients and other sick Iranians who can no longer get the medication they need to stay alive?

    Russia should not be fighting the west, Russia should just separate itself as much as it can and just keep interactions with the west to a bare minimum and look to the rest of the world for trade and growth and development.

    It would
    be uncontrollable. Cities would burn w/o Russia firing anymore missiles.

    And the western elite, the western oligarchs that are in control would love that... I am surprised they haven't done it themselves and blamed the Russians or Chinese for it... no matter how it happens Russia will get the blame.

    The west being destroyed is not something the Russians are seeking... they are not interested in saving it, but equally are not seeking its destruction.

    A civil war in the US would be brutal and bloody and would lead to large numbers of weapons including nuclear weapons falling into the hands of who knows who.

    World economic chaos is not something Russia benefits from.... Russia wants to trade... wars are the wests chosen form of gaining resources it would not otherwise have control of.... whether it is oil or minerals or poppy fields.

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    Post  Stefane Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:18 am

    What you write would apply in the early stages of a conflict where Russia's Internet access, for instance, hasn't already been severed. At such a stage, the cost/benefit would probably speak against attacking undersea cables, and thereby crippling the Western financial base aside from depriving the masses of Netflix, social media and Internet porn.

    Russia has some undersea assets too, no doubt, but to a far less extent than the collective West. It's clearly the West that's far more vulnerable. The West used to have it as a strength that its constituents were located at strategically secure locations like North America, Britain, Australia, New Zealand. Even many of its post-WWII allies like Japan and Taiwan occupy similar positions. Nowadays, with a globalized, light-speed economy connected by undersea cables, and powder keg social relations, this disposition has become a grave liability. It would be foolish not to exploit it.

    The question is, how and at what stage during a conflict this vulnerability could be exploited. Yes, to be absolutely clear about it, it would not make sense to do it more or less out of the blue.

    The technical problem that must be mentioned is that undersea cables run at oceanic depths, out of reach for most submersibles let alone any conventional weapons. Some stretches necessarily run on continental shelves at shallower depths but these stretches are relatively easy to survey and defend.

    That's where Poseidon comes in. I am assuming that Poseidon with its operational depth and multi-megaton warhead has the ability to cut cables at basically any depth. Just position it above a cable or preferably at a location were several cables run close to each other and detonate it. The cables will be cut. There will be a tsunami but it will peter out before reaching any coast line.

    Let's say a conflict has broken out and tactical nuclear weapons have already been used. Russia would like to bring the conflict to an end, yet it has to reckon that escalating would just lead to total annihilation. In such a situation attacking undersea cables using Poseidon drones might make sense. The adversary has its economy crippled but nobody has been directly killed. That would leave the choice of going for total annihilation to the adversary and chances are that it will not take this choice, instead backing down from the conflict.

    I'm not buying the argument that widespread and uncontrolled rioting due to a crippled economy would benefit the oligarchs. We have seen the BLM rioting but that was clearly controlled and died down as soon as the presidential election drew near. With banks having shut down for extended periods of time, the situation would present itself in entirely different terms. Attacking the financial system would actually hurt the oligarchs where it hurts them most.

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