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    Russian defence against drone swarms

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:10 pm

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 001410

    Take one of these and put a machine gun or granate launcher on it. Or both. Plus a couple of RPG´s.

    Against drone swarms you could also use small, off the shelve drones, add a grenade which produces lot of splinters and fly them into the swarm. The surviving drones could be shot down by larger drones woth guns.
    GarryB
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    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 Empty UAV interceptors

    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:43 am

    Even better than the 40 mm grenade is 57 mm ammo... with more than 10 km range and huge destructive capacity, especially against soft targets. This is almost a 3 kg shell, so no small thing at all.

    Quite true, and a 57mm gun armed vehicle will likely be part of the air defence of most static and mobile targets needing defence from armed drones, but in terms of weight and size and cost, a light simple aircraft with a grenade launcher would be cheaper and simpler, and much less bulky.

    They have talked about a tethered UAV for Armata that hovers above 10+m above the vehicle with thermal imagers and radar to detect targets and threats... those sort of sensors plus a laser range finder would be plenty to detect small UAVs and UCAVs... the interception UAV should have the mobility to fly out to where the swarm is coming from and to fly around firing at the UAVs from close range... preferably from behind so they don't see it coming... if it can match the speed of the incoming drone attack it can shoot from behind and above and just pick them off.

    In fact you could have an area... say 10km away from your airbase where these UAVs operate... inside that range you can use other methods of dealing with UAVs... but having a 40mm grenade launcher and an EMP weapon perhaps on your UAV... because it is going to be flying close to the UAVs anyway... it makes sense to use both.

    In terms of weight you should be able to manage 30-50 rounds of 40mm grenades, but the EMP weapon should be good for a few more kills from very close range... which should make it more effective against anything with any electronics in it.

    Low power EW may be limited against autonomous, military grade hardened UAVs, but pure and simple destructive means like 57 mm ammo will do wonders against them and be a quite effective option IMO against UAV swarm

    Actually Russia and Bulgaria developed a jamming 122mm shell that was designed to be fired into enemy territory near the front line and it was supposed to jam communications in the area for a period of a few hours... a scaled up model for a 152mm shell that sent out an EMP pulse to disable nearby UAVs could be another option.

    It all depends on detection performance... a 152mm shell could be delivered to 70km, so potentially in Syria you could be delivering jammers to the launch sites... though you might want to design the jamming round so that it destroys itself during use so it cannot be captured... the volume difference between a 122mm jammer round and a 152mm round would mean careful design and material choice... lots of magnesium and big lithium batteries for instance, and even a charge or amount of naturally combustible materials that will destroy completely the round after it has blown all the nearby electronics would be an improvement.

    So it changes role from 4-6 hours jamming to one near instant jamming pulse and then self destruction.

    Then at 10-20km range you have UCAVs shooting and jamming enemy UCAVs, and then within 10km you have 57mm guns and of course 30mm cannon with air burst ammo too.... and perhaps even cheap command guided or beam riding missiles like Shturm or Kornet...
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:38 am

    Some crazy stuff going on
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:39 pm

    dino00 wrote:Some crazy stuff going on

    This proves my point without a shadow of a doubt, ECM is bar none by far the best way to deal with drones. From the video we saw how drone copters immediately were stopped in their tracks and quietly landed on the grown, similarly drones that fly like a plane will just crash to the ground and the effect will happen at the speed of light, instantaneous. Most of the 'suicide' drones the Kosher Nostra parades as destroyers of SAMs like Pantsir, can be killed just as easily as this. The Mosquito anti-drone ECM complex can effectively kill an indefinite amount of those things with a constant electro-magnetic barrier. Hard kill systems (57mm) are vastly inferior in that respect, and should be used solely on destroying drones that are ordinance carriers (UCAVs like Predator) or cruise missile drones like Tomahawks, where the destruction of the warhead ordinance is a high priority. Anti-drone drones armed with shotguns and nets should be used to cover/clean up the blind spots of the Mosquito ECM complex.
    GarryB
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    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 Empty Anti-drone warfare

    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:58 am

    Well, the west likes to think in terms of new tech replacing old quite rapidly... even prematurely... ie MLRS is so wonderful, lets replace tube artillery with rockets....

    They have realised that tube artillery has its own virtues too...

    I personally think this technology can be combined with existing technology... these EM weapons can stop drones in their tracks and make them easier targets for even small arms to defend... make the hovering threats land and shoot them on the ground... make fixed wing threats crash, but keep other systems because we can't assume these systems will work perfectly forever or indeed on everything, so 57mm air burst shells and quad Pantsir missiles still have their place, but if these systems can do the job using a few cents worth of electricity then that is even better.

    It should be possible to develop a 57mm EMP round that can be fired to go off within a swarm for instance... local artillery batteries with 152mm Coalition could launch 152mm EMP rounds within a radius of 70km which is a circle 140km across that it could be used in... of course being careful not to send your own systems to sleep obviously...
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:37 pm

    For the first time, the anti-drone complex "Silok-02" will be presented in the Southern Military District

    The Army-2019 military-technical forum is held at several venues. The main ground is located in the Moscow Patriot park. There is a platform "Army-2019" and in the territory of the Rostov region. This is also a part of the Patriot park, but already located in Sambek of the Neklinovsky district.

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 1561555837_107

    For the first time, the newest EW Silok-02 complex is presented on this territory. This is a complex of technical means of countering the work of unmanned aerial vehicles of various types.

    The complex will be presented by EW South-Eastern Military District specialists.

    It is noteworthy that this news caused a stir in the Ukrainian blogosphere and some media. There were notes and headlines from the series “Russia is installing the latest EW systems near the Donbas”.

    Silok-02 - the development of a previous modification of the UAV countering complex. He is able to automatically track the coordinates of the drone, using a wide range of frequencies. After the detection of the enemy's UAV, the Silok-02 enters the target suppression mode. The claimed range of the new Silk is “several kilometers”. No exact values ​​are given yet.

    In fact, Silok-02 is a new generation antidronic " weapon ". And the relevance of such weapons is growing not only in the military, but also in the civil sphere. Such EW tools, aimed at fighting drones, make it possible to create a barrier to the work of reconnaissance drones, as well as shock UAVs on important objects, including the territories of military units.

    https://topwar.ru/159460-v-juvo-vpervye-budet-predstavlen-antidronovyj-kompleks-silok-02.html
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:04 pm

    Silok =/= Silk

    It it a diminutive for "strong" in Russian. Like "little strong one". These translation applications are pretty lame if they choke this way.
    In this case the translator assumes upper case first letter means name and stops translating.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:51 pm

    kvs wrote:Silok =/= Silk

    It it a diminutive for "strong" in Russian.   Like "little strong one".    These translation applications are pretty lame if they choke this way.  
    In this case the translator assumes upper case first letter means name and stops translating.  

    Yeah, they also usually mess up articles dealing with ECM. They confuse 'jamming' with 'stuffing', like WTH lol?
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:25 pm

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 Army2019Pavilions-001-X4
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    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 Army2019Pavilions-003-X4
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    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 Army2019Pavilions-005-X4
    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 Army2019Pavilions-006-X4
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:14 pm

    Nice... if you look at the full sized photo of the gray ended things at the muzzle end of the weapon you can see each has a frequency marked on it... so each one sends a signal in a specific frequency range to target aerial vehicles... before I zoomed in I thought they might be little EMP devices that each fire one at a time to attack the target, but having looked at the image closely they each target a frequency to defeat an aerial vehicle.

    Nice.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:19 pm

    The frequencies matches wifi and 4g frequencies so it is specialized against civilian made drones.


    Against a military drone that works on other frequencies it will be useless.

    IMO a vehicles based jammer that analyzes the frequency used and jam it, is better than very specialized man portable jammers that you don't know if it will work because there is no EW that analyzes the frequency used by the enemy drone.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:48 pm

    Against a military drone that works on other frequencies it will be useless.

    Yeah, you are probably not getting the point... that is the brief case for sale to foreigners that is shown to the public, there is probably another brief case that it not for sale or only for sale to military customers...

    That case is probably legal in most countries and could be used to defend airports or airshows or other major public events where the threat from air attack is considered sufficient to warrant buying this sort of thing.

    The other jammers wont be so widely sold...

    BTW will repeat my old joke... it is the only Kalashnikov designed to jam... hahahaha...

    We also don't know much about this system... it is possible that those things in the suitcase are both jammers and receivers, so you can fit them and point them at a target to detect emissions, or attempt to disable the system but if they don't work you could fit the other attachments and try them instead...

    The Rex 2 seems to be the upgraded model with an attachment at the bottom and two more attachments on the weapon, while the Rex 1 seems to have two normal positioned attachments and two more added to the left side... presumably another on the other side and it could have all 5 jammers fitted at one time.

    Perhaps the transmitters for the Rex-2 are more specialised or perhaps broadband emitters...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:13 pm

    Such weapon can only be specialized against some threats and this one is clearly made against civilian drones used by guerillas that works on wifi and 4g bands.

    If you want something like you discribed it will be bigger with computers and screens and many different antennas and electronics, hardly man portable. It won't be a rifle like this thing.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:Nice... if you look at the full sized photo of the gray ended things at the muzzle end of the weapon you can see each has a frequency marked on it... so each one sends a signal in a specific frequency range to target aerial vehicles... before I zoomed in I thought they might be little EMP devices that each fire one at a time to attack the target, but having looked at the image closely they each target a frequency to defeat an aerial vehicle.

    Nice.

    If you ever were wondering what the gun base was for the top anti-drone gun, it's in fact the MR-514K air rifle:

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 DSCN6547

    https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/baikal-mp-514k-pellet-rifle/

    https://kalashnikov.media/video/sovremennaya-pnevmatika-vintovka-mr-514k
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    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 3 Empty Αnti-drone warfare

    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:21 pm

    If you want something like you discribed it will be bigger with computers and screens and many different antennas and electronics, hardly man portable. It won't be a rifle like this thing.

    For all we know the military model might have broad band jammers... perhaps only one or two to cover a very wide frequency range to deal with any sort of communication system, but there is no reason it would have to be man portable either... they might even have a rocket launcher or grenade launcher with explosive based EMP jammer rounds that can be fired at threats to detonate on command as close as possible to take out any sort of drone... or perhaps just disable their cameras which would be enough most of the time...

    If you ever were wondering what the gun base was for the top anti-drone gun, it's in fact the MR-514K air rifle:

    That is why that looked so familiar... thanks for posting...
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    Post  kvs Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:23 pm

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-27/can-american-drone-swarms-beat-russias-anti-missile-systems

    Yeah, Russians are too dumb to handle such yanqui brilliance. Who invented MLRS, dipwads? So now you
    capitalist puritans are all about Leninist quantity has a quality all its own, eh. To an informed observer,
    this looks a lot like clutching at the straws of desperation. You know, Russia is the world leader in EW.

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:23 pm

    EW + all this new small missiles for Pantsir, S-350 and now Tor-M2 + AAA guns like the 2S38. Seems like Russia is thinking about defence against swarm attacks for a while now.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:04 pm

    kvs wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-27/can-american-drone-swarms-beat-russias-anti-missile-systems

    Yeah, Russians are too dumb to handle such yanqui brilliance.   Who invented MLRS, dipwads?  So now you
    capitalist puritans are all about Leninist quantity has a quality all its own, eh.  To an informed observer,
    this looks a lot like clutching at the straws of desperation.  You know, Russia is the world leader in EW.


    You forgot to add the Soviet/Russian navy pioneered swarm missile tactics for at least 50 years now. A multitude of Soviet era and contemporary Russian Ashm's have 'wolf-pack' swarming algorithms built in to their software.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:27 pm

    It should be noted that ECM in all likelihood would sever/break lines of communication and targeting, with all PGM's barring ones with back up inertial guidance. PGM's with inertial guidance aren't completely immune from ECM, Maser's such as Krashukya-4 would fry the circuitry of PGM's with a direct beam of microwaves, and this is taken even further with Peresvet a nuclear pump laser, which combines both DEW and ECM, it's a Laser and a Maser rolled in to one.
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    Post  kvs Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:17 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-27/can-american-drone-swarms-beat-russias-anti-missile-systems

    Yeah, Russians are too dumb to handle such yanqui brilliance.   Who invented MLRS, dipwads?  So now you
    capitalist puritans are all about Leninist quantity has a quality all its own, eh.  To an informed observer,
    this looks a lot like clutching at the straws of desperation.  You know, Russia is the world leader in EW.


    You forgot to add the Soviet/Russian navy pioneered swarm missile tactics for at least 50 years now. A multitude of Soviet era and contemporary Russian Ashm's have 'wolf-pack' swarming algorithms built in to their software.


    Thanks for pointing this out. If they thought of such attacks, then by definition they thought about how defend against such attacks.
    As usual, the yanquis are a day late and a dollar short while chest thumping about their exceptionalist superiority.

    Stupid chimps: Hubris is followed by Nemesis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:18 pm

    https://jakartagreater.com/terbukti-di-suriah-rusia-akan-baptis-tiga-senjata-lawan-isis/

    “Medium and large electromagnetic weapons made by Automatica Concern are dubbed "Ram" and "Peregrine Falcon". The latter is the most powerful and is designed to fight all types of drones, ranging from a small reconnaissance machine to those armed with bombs or missiles.
    Peregrine Falcon detects UAVs via multi-channel tracking systems in the infrared, visual, radio and radar spectrum at distances of up to 100 km. Peregrine Falcon will detect it, follow it on the radar and "turn it off". However, if this drone carries a weapon and cannot be overcome with the electromagnetic spectrum, the "Peregrine Falcon" will send their coordinates to air defense systems such as Pantsir-S1 which will then fire a 30 mm caliber bullet.
    Stationary medium range anti-jamming electromagnetic rifles are referred to as "Ram" and are very effective against large-scale UAV attacks from various directions. When a drone is detected, it immediately "builds up" a very strong electromagnetic field around a base that is capable of disabling a drone. Although it has many frequencies, electromagnetic wave radiation is completely harmless to people under the dome.”

    Does anyone have more reports about these EW weapons? The Russians also have systems like the repellent-1 to dispose of drones. All the action going on right now is in Damascus I am sure that most of Russia's EW systems are located at Latakia near their s-400. Saudi Arabia should invest EW systems.

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    Post  Cyberspec Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:27 am

    thegopnik wrote:

    Does anyone have more reports about these EW weapons?

    These sound like EMP type systems. Most of the stuff is classified and there isn't much public info on them...I couldn't find anything on the "Peregrine Falcon" and "Ram"
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    Post  jhelb Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:40 pm

    The recent events in Saudi Arabia and India clearly shows that swarms of drones can be used to (a) attack critical infrastructure and (b) transport arms and ammunition to criminal elements.

    Now a Pantsir or Verba can very easily shoot down swarm drones in a battlefield. But how can Russian cities be defended from such swarm drone attacks ? Because you cannot shoot down drones over an urban conglomerate. These drones will be carrying a package like a warhead, biological or chemical agent.

    If they are shot down they will cause a whole lot of casualties on the ground.

    So what are the other options ? Jamming, Spoofing ? Anything else ?

    Some German companies are making big bucks by selling what they define as counter drone systems.

    https://www.aaronia.com/products/solutions/Aaronia-Drone-Detection-System/
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:50 am


    Nuke the source and anything connected to the source

    Everyone knows this and it is why stuff like this doesn't happen

    Why are you wasting server space with this nonsense anyway?



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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:01 am

    Russia already has and is constantly improving its IADS over Russian airspace and the actual space above that, and has invested a lot of money into electronic and physical countermeasures for drones and stand off weapons of all types.

    Of all the countries on the planet I would say it has the safest airspace in such terms.

    And as Papadragon said... unlike the west who picks a name off its shit list and just picks them (ie Russian traitor poisoned in the UK, must be Russia) the Russians will track down who launched the attack, who supported them, who paid for the attack, and who turned a blind eye to let it happen... and then piss on their parades.

    I would think it would be a rather brave faction that tried a chemical weapon attack on Russia... the response could be very personal and in kind and they have rather more resources to make sure it succeeds, not to mention no other country on the planet has the defences to stop it better than Russia so they will be much more vulnerable to such an attack.

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