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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:19 am

    Sweden will boost its defence budget. From todays 1,2% of its GDP to 2,0%. From todays ~6,7 billion US Dollars to ~11,1 billion per year.

    Its the largest investment in the Swedish military since the 1950s.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-03-10/sweden-to-increase-military-spending-to-2-of-gdp-as-soon-as-possible-pm
    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kraftig-upprustning-av-forsvaret-budget-ska-oka-med-40-miljarder

    "Today, we present a new initiative with a clear message to the Swedish people and to the world around us. Sweden's defence capability must be greatly strengthened," Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson told a news conference."

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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:31 am

    I hope you have shares in arms companies on your country... it will be the only taxpayer funded pay raise you will likely see for a while... after a pandemic... where is all this extra money coming from?

    But obviously spending more on "defence" will obviously make you safer... look how safe the US is...
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:I hope you have shares in arms companies on your country... it will be the only taxpayer funded pay raise you will likely see for a while... after a pandemic... where is all this extra money coming from?

    But obviously spending more on "defence" will obviously make you safer... look how safe the US is...

    Saab and old Bofors (BAE) are going to get alot more orders in the next coming years thats for sure.
    I doubt the economics will be that of a problem, Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia. I think the total import from Russia was 1,5% when the invasion started, probably down to 0,5 now.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:47 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I hope you have shares in arms companies on your country... it will be the only taxpayer funded pay raise you will likely see for a while... after a pandemic... where is all this extra money coming from?

    But obviously spending more on "defence" will obviously make you safer... look how safe the US is...

    Saab and old Bofors (BAE) are going to get alot more orders in the next coming years thats for sure.
    I doubt the economics will be that of a problem, Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia. I think the total import from Russia was 1,5% when the invasion started, probably down to 0,5 now.

    They don't import from Russia...they import 3rd world Islamist/jihadist refugees instead! How's Swedish cucked lutefisk garglers handling Malmö lol? Razz lol1 clown pwnd
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    Post  walle83 Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:58 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I hope you have shares in arms companies on your country... it will be the only taxpayer funded pay raise you will likely see for a while... after a pandemic... where is all this extra money coming from?

    But obviously spending more on "defence" will obviously make you safer... look how safe the US is...

    Saab and old Bofors (BAE) are going to get alot more orders in the next coming years thats for sure.
    I doubt the economics will be that of a problem, Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia. I think the total import from Russia was 1,5% when the invasion started, probably down to 0,5 now.

    They don't import from Russia...they import 3rd world Islamist/jihadist refugees instead! How's Swedish cucked lutefisk garglers handling Malmö lol? Razz lol1 clown pwnd

    And now thanks to Russia will be having about 200.000 Ukrains. Thx! Rolling Eyes Finland seems to be getting Russians though, alot of people have had enough of Putin it seems.
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    Post  Isos Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:18 am

    Westerners would sell their mothzrs for "economics" and money. They have no more identity. I guess it's normal when you see that their leader, the US have been created by mixing shit people from UK and black slaves and killing all the people, amer-indians, that were in america.

    Now they are spreading their "culture" through nato and EU.

    I totally support Putin by not letting them come close to its borders. He should have forbiden US culture too by banning mcdonalds, their movies and everything else.

    Thanks god China will stop them for good.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:07 am

    walle83 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I hope you have shares in arms companies on your country... it will be the only taxpayer funded pay raise you will likely see for a while... after a pandemic... where is all this extra money coming from?

    But obviously spending more on "defence" will obviously make you safer... look how safe the US is...

    Saab and old Bofors (BAE) are going to get alot more orders in the next coming years thats for sure.
    I doubt the economics will be that of a problem, Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia. I think the total import from Russia was 1,5% when the invasion started, probably down to 0,5 now.

    They don't import from Russia...they import 3rd world Islamist/jihadist refugees instead! How's Swedish cucked lutefisk garglers handling Malmö lol? Razz lol1 clown pwnd

    And now thanks to Russia will be having about 200.000 Ukrains. Thx! Rolling Eyes Finland seems to be getting Russians though, alot of people have had enough of Putin it seems.
    Swedish clowns (your country men) said refugees welcome didn't they? You tax-happy grinder-monkeys should should enjoy paying billions of USD in taxes towards non-tax paying refugees! Razz Razz Razz
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:48 am

    I totally support Putin by not letting them come close to its borders. He should have forbiden US culture too by banning mcdonalds, their movies and everything else.

    Lucky for him they are stupid and are banning themselves...

    Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia.

    And when the rest of Europe runs out of energy and have to shut down their factories they might end up shifting some factories to Sweden, so that will be a double bonus.

    Wonder how much Sweden will like being successful amongst a group of countries that are going to be struggling, I am sure you will be happy to foot the bill to help Poland build a wall and whatever is left of Nazi Ukraine to rebuild to help fight Russia... it is all money well spent... I mean it is much better to spend the money now than to have to learn Russian later on because obviously self defence equals colonial imperial invasion of Europe... or some such silly idea they will make up... hitler.... atilla the hun blah blah blah.

    Putin is evil because he wants to trade but not submit... Russians leaving Russia because of that, well I am sure they will fit right in in the west.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:56 am

    @magnumcromagnon tone it down a little please, I realise these Euro idiots take orders from Americans... but only Americans with too much money... if he wants his country to piss money away arming themselves and nazis in the Ukraine then it is his taxpayer dollars.

    Not even as if he could stop it or have any real say in the matter anyway... he is like us... a tiny little cog in a machine that takes money and pours it into the pockets of those who don't need more money, what they need are ethics and morals and they are not even looking.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:37 am

    walle83 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I hope you have shares in arms companies on your country... it will be the only taxpayer funded pay raise you will likely see for a while... after a pandemic... where is all this extra money coming from?

    But obviously spending more on "defence" will obviously make you safer... look how safe the US is...

    Saab and old Bofors (BAE) are going to get alot more orders in the next coming years thats for sure.
    I doubt the economics will be that of a problem, Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia. I think the total import from Russia was 1,5% when the invasion started, probably down to 0,5 now.

    They don't import from Russia...they import 3rd world Islamist/jihadist refugees instead! How's Swedish cucked lutefisk garglers handling Malmö lol? Razz lol1 clown pwnd

    And now thanks to Russia will be having about 200.000 Ukrains. Thx! Rolling Eyes Finland seems to be getting Russians though, alot of people have had enough of Putin it seems.

    Less people to do regime-change here

    The Ukrainians will go back once Russia takes control or some kind of agreement is reached. Rebuilding will happen, everything will be alright. Can't bring back that the mountain of corpses that Putin ended up creating of course..

    I'm not happy about the strategy of the war. It seems like a shock and awe campaign might have actually been better in so far as ending the war quicker and with less casualties not only for the Russian side, but the Ukrainian one especially. Either that or the Soviet break-through doctrine, mass encirclements and so on.
    This Clausewitz stuff about mixing war and diplomacy only works I think as long as the other side isn't backed by the whole West and doesn't have homes in Europe they can always retired to. As it is though, they're determined to 'fight to the end'. Russia went in as a giant militia and is busy fighting tactical and positional battles for control of the roads. The Ukrainian army is taking a lot of losses in desperate counterattacks, and simply put this should have been avoided..
    More than anything this all reminds me of the operation to destabilize Dudayev in Chechnya in 1993 except on a much larger scale. That one ended in failure whereas this one has turned into what it is now.

    Too late now. The fact is though that the fuel storages and ammo supplies of the Ukrainians are destroyed so there's only so long they can fight. The ground taken so far is manageable for counter-insurgency ops than it would have been if Russia went in deeper. The Ukrainian army and govt has been preserved so its in theory still possible to work with them, rather than doing as what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan - destroyed everything and then attempted to build their own from scratch, only to encounter a massive insurgency.
    I think the next stage is the formation of a new Ukrainian govt based off the opposition, and the defection of regions and army units to it. Then the destabilization of the regime and the coming to power of people in Kiev that can be worked with.

    Hell knows though.
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    Post  walle83 Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Less people to do regime-change here

    The Ukrainians will go back once Russia takes control or some kind of agreement is reached. Rebuilding will happen, everything will be alright. Can't bring back that the mountain of corpses that Putin ended up creating of course..

    I'm not happy about the strategy of the war. It seems like a shock and awe campaign might have actually been better in so far as ending the war quicker and with less casualties not only for the Russian side, but the Ukrainian one especially. Either that or the Soviet break-through doctrine, mass encirclements and so on.
    This Clausewitz stuff about mixing war and diplomacy only works I think as long as the other side isn't backed by the whole West and doesn't have homes in Europe they can always retired to. As it is though, they're determined to 'fight to the end'. Russia went in as a giant militia and is busy fighting tactical and positional battles for control of the roads. The Ukrainian army is taking a lot of losses in desperate counterattacks, and simply put this should have been avoided..
    More than anything this all reminds me of the operation to destabilize Dudayev in Chechnya in 1993 except on a much larger scale. That one ended in failure whereas this one has turned into what it is now.

    Too late now. The fact is though that the fuel storages and ammo supplies of the Ukrainians are destroyed so there's only so long they can fight. The ground taken so far is manageable for counter-insurgency ops than it would have been if Russia went in deeper. The Ukrainian army and govt has been preserved so its in theory still possible to work with them, rather than doing as what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan - destroyed everything and then attempted to build their own from scratch, only to encounter a massive insurgency.
    I think the next stage is the formation of a new Ukrainian govt based off the opposition, and the defection of regions and army units to it. Then the destabilization of the regime and the coming to power of people in Kiev that can be worked with.

    Hell knows though.

    Putin thought he could do a regime change in Kiev in a few days, he was very wrong. This will take months. Even when the Russian forces has taken all the key points the fighting will constuine with endless support from the west. Whatever the outcome of the war Russia and its people are going to suffer. I seriusly dont know what Putin was thinking here.

    As it looks now Finland is on its way to join Nato, Sweden has over 80 years of none alliance, but are also thinking hard about it.
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    Post  walle83 Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia.

    And when the rest of Europe runs out of energy and have to shut down their factories they might end up shifting some factories to Sweden, so that will be a double bonus.

    Wonder how much Sweden will like being successful amongst a group of countries that are going to be struggling, I am sure you will be happy to foot the bill to help Poland build a wall and whatever is left of Nazi Ukraine to rebuild to help fight Russia... it is all money well spent... I mean it is much better to spend the money now than to have to learn Russian later on because obviously self defence equals colonial imperial invasion of Europe... or some such silly idea they will make up... hitler.... atilla the hun blah blah blah.

    Putin is evil because he wants to trade but not submit... Russians leaving Russia because of that, well I am sure they will fit right in in the west.

    You do realice that Russia will be the one that will suffer the most ? Every single military project will now be delalyed or cancelled, the Russian people will loose many rights, free elections will vanish, it will be very empty in the stores, all western companies will leave, you wont be able to buy western cars, electronics, use the internet, fashion companies are leaving, prices will increase extremly, the rubel will fall ecs ecs ecs.

    Its back to the early 1980s USSR again.

    And for what? Invading a brother poeple? Nato wont back down, it will build up and Russia wont be able to keep up and more nations will now join.

    Europe wont close anything but thier pipes coming from Russia. Every nation in the EU has started planing how to stop being depended on Russian gas and oil, in a few years Russia wont be able to sell anything to Europe because no one wants it.

    Sweden is on the front of these things, with getting less and less depended on oil year by year.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:51 am

    Can't bring back that the mountain of corpses that Putin ended up creating of course..

    Don't want to bring them back... just make a big pile and call it nazi hill and put a latrine on the top.

    I'm not happy about the strategy of the war. It seems like a shock and awe campaign might have actually been better in so far as ending the war quicker and with less casualties not only for the Russian side, but the Ukrainian one especially.

    Shock and awe didn't work in Iraq, why would it work in the Ukraine?

    Why would making the local population think Russia was prepared to murder them all if they don't surrender now would make things easier or better?

    Either that or the Soviet break-through doctrine, mass encirclements and so on.

    Isn't that what they are doing?

    The Ukrainian army is taking a lot of losses in desperate counterattacks, and simply put this should have been avoided..

    Why?

    Desperate counter attacks that end in the Ukrainians getting killed is how this works... eliminate the ones wanting to kill Russians... that is the purpose of the attack... and Ukraine should be happy about this... they have been doing everything they could to start a war and have been saying they were fighting Russians since 2014... well now they have their wish... bit different with real Russians instead of civilians that don't shoot back.

    That one ended in failure whereas this one has turned into what it is now.

    Yup, that one ended in failure while this one seems to be working...

    Too late now. The fact is though that the fuel storages and ammo supplies of the Ukrainians are destroyed so there's only so long they can fight.

    Yes, what a lucky break for the Russians that they have had so many explosive accidents at their fuel and ammo dumps... unless that was on purpose and actually part of the plan.... DUH.

    The Ukrainian army and govt has been preserved so its in theory still possible to work with them, rather than doing as what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan - destroyed everything and then attempted to build their own from scratch, only to encounter a massive insurgency.

    I am sure there will be parts of the Ukrainian army that want to fight and die to kill Russians... well give them their chance, but plenty don't want to be there, like that Brit who volunteered... they will have lists and information from this battlefield and others I suspect so any ISIS volunteers might be fighting to the death too to avoid prosecution.

    There is no need to wipe out the Ukrainian army, but when Russia is done there wont be a replacement... the Ukraine is going to be neutral and demilitarised and will likely get security guarantees from Russia so that it remains so.


    Putin thought he could do a regime change in Kiev in a few days, he was very wrong.

    I remember Madeline Allbright saying Kosovo would be free in three or four days, and I vaguely remember a few other US politicians making extravagant claims about the various military operations the west started involving a few days or a week at most, but I have never heard a timetable from Putin, you are making that up.

    This will take months.

    If that is what it takes then that is how long it will take.

    Even when the Russian forces has taken all the key points the fighting will constuine with endless support from the west.

    No it wont. As guerillas get killed it gets harder and harder to replace them, and the endless support from the west is fickle... they just blew up a base with foreign volunteers where they were stockpiling weapons donated from the west that was hit with about 30 cruise missiles, so that is a lot of support the guys on the front line wont be receiving.

    Russia has been intercepting weapon supplies and HQs in Syria rather successfully for the last 5 years do you think they suddenly forgot how to do that because it gets colder in the Ukraine than in Syria?

    Whatever the outcome of the war Russia and its people are going to suffer. I seriusly dont know what Putin was thinking here.

    The US was going to help Kiev build nuclear weapons and was helping them working on illegal bio weapons and Kiev was planning to invade their separatist regions of Donbass and Lugansk about 6 days ago, and when Russian forces got involved they would have asked for HATO peacekeepers, which would likely have been approved because Russia is clearly blind and weak...

    The evidence is 100% clear and obvious, unlike the western invasion of Iraq for the same excuse.

    What I don't understand is why you think waiting would do any good... waiting 8 years and letting Kiev murder 14,000 of their own people does not seem like a good strategy any more and FP was complaining that he was doing nothing while these people are dying... now he is bitching because people are dying...

    Well the Russians are disciplined soldiers and will only fire if fired upon so most of the civilian casualties will come from civilians armed by the west to stop the Russians, or civilians used as meat shields by the hard core nazi troops Kiev has at its disposal... neither of which is Putins fault or the fault of Russian soldiers.

    The west doens't care that the Ukrainians do that to their own people why should I?

    As it looks now Finland is on its way to join Nato, Sweden has over 80 years of none alliance, but are also thinking hard about it.

    Good, that will close that border and cut ties between Finland and Russia... they were a bad influence.

    You do realice that Russia will be the one that will suffer the most ?

    You do realise this was their best choice... everyone is going to suffer because of this, but at least they get to keep their independence.

    Every single military project will now be delalyed or cancelled,

    Many will likely be accelerated... the PD-8 engine programme has already been accelerated...

    the Russian people will loose many rights,

    The right to be an alphabet person is over rated.

    free elections will vanish,

    Says who?

    it will be very empty in the stores,

    They produce their own food. The consumer devices in their stores most likely come from China and will likely continue to do so... some brands will disappear, and other brands will pop up to replace them at likely half the price.

    all western companies will leave,

    You say that like it is a bad thing, local alternatives and foreign alternatives will replace them... good old market forces... cokecola doesn't dominate the market because it has a good product, it dominates because it has the money and market share to squeeze out any competition. They don't cure cancer... they probably create cancer with their sugar water shit...

    you wont be able to buy western cars,

    Western cars are crap.... overpriced metal penises.

    use the internet,

    No one is cutting them off the internet and it couldn't be done even if they wanted to... but if they did then that gives Russia the opportunity to do all sorts of damage world wide because if they have no internet how would you get them back?

    fashion companies are leaving, prices will increase extremly, the rubel will fall ecs ecs ecs.

    Their economy is based on rubles, the value of the ruble would not matter except for imported items which would suddenly become very very expensive so local alternatives would be worth developing and selling instead, which would be good for Russia.

    Hilarious you think fashion is so important, so they will have energy and food but their shoes and clothes will be out of date, while westerners will have no power and not enough food but they will look modern and up to date as they freeze... hilarious.

    And for what? Invading a brother poeple?

    Protecting themselves from rabid nazi anti Russian brother people working on bio weapons and nukes... and they get to cut the rest of their ties with the West too which is a bonus.

    The west will never accept Russia as anything other than a new colony and Russia will never accept those terms.

    Nato wont back down,

    HATO already backed down when it said it would not do anything other than sanctions and weapon supplies.

    it will build up and Russia wont be able to keep up and more nations will now join.

    When more nations join Russia will respond.

    Europe wont close anything but thier pipes coming from Russia.

    A whole world market out there for energy, if Europe does not want cheap energy I am sure other countries will line up for that.

    Every nation in the EU has started planing how to stop being depended on Russian gas and oil, in a few years Russia wont be able to sell anything to Europe because no one wants it.

    Putin expected that... he has done everything he reasonably could... except submit his country to the slaughter, and when it was clear western plans were getting ready for that slaughter anyway Putin attacked... he had no other choice because all the other choices were worse than this.

    Russian soldiers are dying, but they are killing Nazis, and literally protecting Russia from crazies on their border... that is rather more legitimate than the dozens of conflicts the west has been involved in in the last 50 years, but keep crying about evil Mr Putin... he is past caring now which is good.

    You didn't give a shit when Russia was suffering from western democracy in the 1990s, why should they care about your threats of their suffering now... there was no better option.

    Sweden is on the front of these things, with getting less and less depended on oil year by year.

    Good for you... so what are you using instead of plastics and other oil related products?

    Saying they are going to find alternatives is amusing because the two obvious alternatives for Europe would be nuclear and coal, neither is very green the way you do it either... even the US relies on Russia for the uranium in its nuclear power stations... this is going to be amusing... Putin hasn't announced his responses to western sanctions yet but he did say they were assymetric... ie not just tit for tat, they will be targeted to cause pain.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:55 am

    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    Sweden has one of the strongest economies in Europe today and basicly has no ties to Russia.

    And when the rest of Europe runs out of energy and have to shut down their factories they might end up shifting some factories to Sweden, so that will be a double bonus.

    Wonder how much Sweden will like being successful amongst a group of countries that are going to be struggling, I am sure you will be happy to foot the bill to help Poland build a wall and whatever is left of Nazi Ukraine to rebuild to help fight Russia... it is all money well spent... I mean it is much better to spend the money now than to have to learn Russian later on because obviously self defence equals colonial imperial invasion of Europe... or some such silly idea they will make up... hitler.... atilla the hun blah blah blah.

    Putin is evil because he wants to trade but not submit... Russians leaving Russia because of that, well I am sure they will fit right in in the west.

    You do realice that Russia will be the one that will suffer the most ? Every single military project will now be delalyed or cancelled, the Russian people will loose many rights, free elections will vanish, it will be very empty in the stores, all western companies will leave, you wont be able to buy western cars, electronics, use the internet, fashion companies are leaving, prices will increase extremly, the rubel will fall ecs ecs ecs.

    Its back to the early 1980s USSR again.

    And for what? Invading a brother poeple? Nato wont back down, it will build up and Russia wont be able to keep up and more nations will now join.

    Europe wont close anything but thier pipes coming from Russia. Every nation in the EU has started planing how to stop being depended on Russian gas and oil, in a few years Russia wont be able to sell anything to Europe because no one wants it.

    Sweden is on the front of these things, with getting less and less depended on oil year by year.

    No-one cares about Europe or the sanctions

    I care only about the destruction in the Ukraine thanks to this genius operation.

    As for invading a brother people - that's what the Ukrainian regime did to their own people who refused to recognize the coup. They also colonized them with neo-Nazis and all kinds of other nasty things.
    Doesn't make the Russian invasion now any less brutal or retarded.

    As for Europe, we'll manage, and you can build up all you want, in any full-on war it will quickly come down to a lot heavier stuff than that's being used in the Ukraine at the moment. No-one's joining NATO other than who was already a de-facto member of it and took part in its campaign in Libya like Sweden.
    You play a bunch of anti-war bunny rabbits when it's convenient but for some reason the whole of the Middle East is cheering on Russia. Funny that.
    We'll handle our own problems and own leadership, when they finally realize that this operation in the Ukraine won't bring anything good.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:16 pm


    As for invading a brother people

    They consider russians as parasites. They aren't viewing them as brother. They spent 8 years destroying ukrainian russian speaking population.

    Spare us your stupide comments about brothers. That's pathetic.

    Their next move was to bring nato there and start a war. They are even trying to start it now by asking for no fly zones.

    Those nazi wanted the destruction of Russia and a fucking WW3. They weren't even hiding their plans.

    Ukrainians were zombified by promesses of all getting rich when entering intp EU and Nato.

    Ukrainians are stupid and used like puppets. Putin is protecting russians and Russia. If there was no war yoday then it would have been a civil war in Russia.

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    Post  walle83 Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:09 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Can't bring back that the mountain of corpses that Putin ended up creating of course..

    Don't want to bring them back... just make a big pile and call it nazi hill and put a latrine on the top.

    I'm not happy about the strategy of the war. It seems like a shock and awe campaign might have actually been better in so far as ending the war quicker and with less casualties not only for the Russian side, but the Ukrainian one especially.

    Shock and awe didn't work in Iraq, why would it work in the Ukraine?

    Why would making the local population think Russia was prepared to murder them all if they don't surrender now would make things easier or better?

    Either that or the Soviet break-through doctrine, mass encirclements and so on.

    Isn't that what they are doing?

    The Ukrainian army is taking a lot of losses in desperate counterattacks, and simply put this should have been avoided..

    Why?

    Desperate counter attacks that end in the Ukrainians getting killed is how this works... eliminate the ones wanting to kill Russians... that is the purpose of the attack... and Ukraine should be happy about this... they have been doing everything they could to start a war and have been saying they were fighting Russians since 2014... well now they have their wish... bit different with real Russians instead of civilians that don't shoot back.

    That one ended in failure whereas this one has turned into what it is now.

    Yup, that one ended in failure while this one seems to be working...

    Too late now. The fact is though that the fuel storages and ammo supplies of the Ukrainians are destroyed so there's only so long they can fight.

    Yes, what a lucky break for the Russians that they have had so many explosive accidents at their fuel and ammo dumps... unless that was on purpose and actually part of the plan.... DUH.

    The Ukrainian army and govt has been preserved so its in theory still possible to work with them, rather than doing as what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan - destroyed everything and then attempted to build their own from scratch, only to encounter a massive insurgency.

    I am sure there will be parts of the Ukrainian army that want to fight and die to kill Russians... well give them their chance, but plenty don't want to be there, like that Brit who volunteered... they will have lists and information from this battlefield and others I suspect so any ISIS volunteers might be fighting to the death too to avoid prosecution.

    There is no need to wipe out the Ukrainian army, but when Russia is done there wont be a replacement... the Ukraine is going to be neutral and demilitarised and will likely get security guarantees from Russia so that it remains so.


    Putin thought he could do a regime change in Kiev in a few days, he was very wrong.

    I remember Madeline Allbright saying Kosovo would be free in three or four days, and I vaguely remember a few other US politicians making extravagant claims about the various military operations the west started involving a few days or a week at most, but I have never heard a timetable from Putin, you are making that up.

    This will take months.

    If that is what it takes then that is how long it will take.

    Even when the Russian forces has taken all the key points the fighting will constuine with endless support from the west.

    No it wont. As guerillas get killed it gets harder and harder to replace them, and the endless support from the west is fickle... they just blew up a base with foreign volunteers where they were stockpiling weapons donated from the west that was hit with about 30 cruise missiles, so that is a lot of support the guys on the front line wont be receiving.

    Russia has been intercepting weapon supplies and HQs in Syria rather successfully for the last 5 years do you think they suddenly forgot how to do that because it gets colder in the Ukraine than in Syria?

    Whatever the outcome of the war Russia and its people are going to suffer. I seriusly dont know what Putin was thinking here.

    The US was going to help Kiev build nuclear weapons and was helping them working on illegal bio weapons and Kiev was planning to invade their separatist regions of Donbass and Lugansk about 6 days ago, and when Russian forces got involved they would have asked for HATO peacekeepers, which would likely have been approved because Russia is clearly blind and weak...

    The evidence is 100% clear and obvious, unlike the western invasion of Iraq for the same excuse.

    What I don't understand is why you think waiting would do any good... waiting 8 years and letting Kiev murder 14,000 of their own people does not seem like a good strategy any more and FP was complaining that he was doing nothing while these people are dying... now he is bitching because people are dying...

    Well the Russians are disciplined soldiers and will only fire if fired upon so most of the civilian casualties will come from civilians armed by the west to stop the Russians, or civilians used as meat shields by the hard core nazi troops Kiev has at its disposal... neither of which is Putins fault or the fault of Russian soldiers.

    The west doens't care that the Ukrainians do that to their own people why should I?

    As it looks now Finland is on its way to join Nato, Sweden has over 80 years of none alliance, but are also thinking hard about it.

    Good, that will close that border and cut ties between Finland and Russia... they were a bad influence.

    You do realice that Russia will be the one that will suffer the most ?

    You do realise this was their best choice... everyone is going to suffer because of this, but at least they get to keep their independence.

    Every single military project will now be delalyed or cancelled,

    Many will likely be accelerated... the PD-8 engine programme has already been accelerated...

    the Russian people will loose many rights,

    The right to be an alphabet person is over rated.

    free elections will vanish,

    Says who?

    it will be very empty in the stores,

    They produce their own food. The consumer devices in their stores most likely come from China and will likely continue to do so... some brands will disappear, and other brands will pop up to replace them at likely half the price.

    all western companies will leave,

    You say that like it is a bad thing, local alternatives and foreign alternatives will replace them... good old market forces... cokecola doesn't dominate the market because it has a good product, it dominates because it has the money and market share to squeeze out any competition.  They don't cure cancer... they probably create cancer with their sugar water shit...

    you wont be able to buy western cars,

    Western cars are crap.... overpriced metal penises.

    use the internet,

    No one is cutting them off the internet and it couldn't be done even if they wanted to... but if they did then that gives Russia the opportunity to do all sorts of damage world wide because if they have no internet how would you get them back?

    fashion companies are leaving, prices will increase extremly, the rubel will fall ecs ecs ecs.

    Their economy is based on rubles, the value of the ruble would not matter except for imported items which would suddenly become very very expensive so local alternatives would be worth developing and selling instead, which would be good for Russia.

    Hilarious you think fashion is so important, so they will have energy and food but their shoes and clothes will be out of date, while westerners will have no power and not enough food but they will look modern and up to date as they freeze... hilarious.

    And for what? Invading a brother poeple?

    Protecting themselves from rabid nazi anti Russian brother people working on bio weapons and nukes... and they get to cut the rest of their ties with the West too which is a bonus.

    The west will never accept Russia as anything other than a new colony and Russia will never accept those terms.

    Nato wont back down,

    HATO already backed down when it said it would not do anything other than sanctions and weapon supplies.

    it will build up and Russia wont be able to keep up and more nations will now join.

    When more nations join Russia will respond.

    Europe wont close anything but thier pipes coming from Russia.

    A whole world market out there for energy, if Europe does not want cheap energy I am sure other countries will line up for that.

    Every nation in the EU has started planing how to stop being depended on Russian gas and oil, in a few years Russia wont be able to sell anything to Europe because no one wants it.

    Putin expected that... he has done everything he reasonably could... except submit his country to the slaughter, and when it was clear western plans were getting ready for that slaughter anyway Putin attacked... he had no other choice because all the other choices were worse than this.

    Russian soldiers are dying, but they are killing Nazis, and literally protecting Russia from crazies on their border... that is rather more legitimate than the dozens of conflicts the west has been involved in in the last 50 years, but keep crying about evil Mr Putin... he is past caring now which is good.

    You didn't give a shit when Russia was suffering from western democracy in the 1990s, why should they care about your threats of their suffering now... there was no better option.

    Sweden is on the front of these things, with getting less and less depended on oil year by year.

    Good for you... so what are you using instead of plastics and other oil related products?

    Saying they are going to find alternatives is amusing because the two obvious alternatives for Europe would be nuclear and coal, neither is very green the way you do it either... even the US relies on Russia for the uranium in its nuclear power stations... this is going to be amusing... Putin hasn't announced his responses to western sanctions yet but he did say they were assymetric... ie not just tit for tat, they will be targeted to cause pain.

    Reading half of your answer is enough i think.
    Desperate replies with no grip of reality.
    Nazies, nuclear and bio weapons....
    If you dont even live in the same reality its hard to debate the facts.
    If you want to continue lie to your self you do so, im done..

    Have fun in the new "better" Russia. Btw Putin just banned Istagram also 😄 and the EU added more sanctions that will hit hard on Russian industry.

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:18 pm

    I care only about the destruction in the Ukraine thanks to this genius operation.

    Think of it as preemptive self defence... when Kievs forces started to roll forward into the Donbass on March 8th then what was Russia going to be able to do... they would be on full alert and expect attacks on their flanks... would you want troop ships hit by anti ship missiles?

    The majority of Ukrainian people might not hate Russia and Russians, but the people in power in Kiev do and want the ukrainians in the Donbass and Lugansk killed or kicked out.

    Pretty clear what sort of sides are fighting here... the Russians started by evacuating Donbass and Lugansk civilians and after surrounding towns and cities in the areas their forces have reached have opened designated humanitarian corridors for the civilians to leave... almost like they don't want civilians to get hurt.

    In comparison Kievs forces are shelling civilans and shooting those trying to leave the areas of fighting so they can use them as meat shields to shoot at Russian soldiers standing behind them...

    You continue to bitch and moan... this is happening.


    As for invading a brother people - that's what the Ukrainian regime did to their own people who refused to recognize the coup. They also colonized them with neo-Nazis and all kinds of other nasty things.
    Doesn't make the Russian invasion now any less brutal or retarded.

    Ukrainians can run away or they can fight... they can choose, it is largely up to them.

    Russian soldiers will likely shoot anyone who is armed or anyone who is shooting at them.

    There will be no examples like in Iraq where entire cities were shelled to rubble and seiged...

    You play a bunch of anti-war bunny rabbits when it's convenient but for some reason the whole of the Middle East is cheering on Russia. Funny that.

    They likely find it as entertaining as most westerners found the attacks on Syria and Libya and Iraq and Afghanistan...

    We'll handle our own problems and own leadership, when they finally realize that this operation in the Ukraine won't bring anything good.

    When they destroy the bio weapon labs and take control of the nuclear reactors and crush the military capacity of the Ukraine and created peace for the ukrainians in the donbass and Lugansk and quite a few other areas in the region then I think all of those things will be very good.

    Ironically the severing of ties with the west is probably the best thing that is happening for Russia, Putin has essentially said he no longer sees a future for a single economic space from the Atlantic to the Pacific... we will sell you some stuff but we don't want to be friends anymore because the west is a colonial based organisation incapable of such concepts... the message has finally gotten through.

    If there was no war yoday then it would have been a civil war in Russia.

    Or a new type of Covid where only ethnic Russians seem to be dying.... the neutron bomb of the 21st C... by then it will be too late.


    Reading half of your answer is enough i think.
    Desperate replies with no grip of reality.
    Nazies, nuclear and bio weapons....

    I understand.... western media keep it simple so you don't need to think... Putin bad, Russia bad... spend more money on weapons and defence and that will save you... didn't save the Ukraine but it will save you, and if it doesn't then you obviously have to spend more on defence like the US does.

    If you dont even live in the same reality its hard to debate the facts

    Your facts come from Washington and Facebook and Twitter... and what do you mean debate... you have been given your facts... there can be no debate...

    If you want to continue lie to your self you do so, im done..

    Course you are done, the truth can set you free, but it can also trap you in your little world where no alternative views are allowed, you seem to like Chinese stuff... was that to annoy those who like Russian gear and wind them up... China is under the same pressures from the west and it has to make the same decision Putin made because China wont be dictated to by the colonial west... they just wont take that shit... no country should but it seems the west is full of spineless slaves who do as they are told without thinking or questioning orders from Washington.

    The west is very powerful, so I know why you do as you are told.... it is easier.

    Have fun in the new "better" Russia. Btw Putin just banned Istagram also

    Never used instagram or twitter or facebook... I don't even have an account, Alternatives will be developed if there is an actual market for that bullshit...

    and the EU added more sanctions that will hit hard on Russian industry.

    Ohhh, no... what ever will Russia do... obviously they should never have stopped the nazis on their border getting nuclear weapons and bio weapons and killing yet more of their own citizens in those two regions for the awful crime of wanting to continue to speak Russia...

    You Uropeans and your rights...

    The west is making itself less relevant and the rest of the world is taking note.

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    walle83


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    Nordic countries militaries - Page 5 Empty Re: Nordic countries militaries

    Post  walle83 Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:26 am

    Sweden have send one of its S102 aircrafts to Polen, flying near the Ukrainian and Belarus borders.

    https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/dn22lz/svenskt-militarflyg-vid-belarus-och-ukrainas-grans

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