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    Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:18 am

    Ofcourse there is a risk if a single huge carrier got hit. But there are strong arguments in favour of 90k, 100k ton carriers. The US looked at more smaller carriers, but deemed it too expensive, I understand.

    Nope.

    The bigger a carrier is the more expensive it is... both to buy and to operate.

    Having one ship carrying 100 aircraft vs 10 carriers carrying 10 each means one set of radars and sensors and air defence and electronics and propulsion etc etc and more importantly one carrier group.

    Having 10 separate carriers with much smaller air wings and ten sets of radars and engines etc etc is not actually cheaper at all, though it would take a minimum of ten anti ship missiles to defeat and ten carriers can be sent in ten different directions, the problem is is ten aircraft a viable force or will you find yourself sending 4-5 carriers for every mission?

    the US chose 100K ton carriers because they demanded a strike capability that the Russians didn't need or want. When you carry strike aircraft you need tankers and AWACS and support fighters... you can't get away with a 10 aircraft carrier... you need 40-80 at the very least to maintain air protection over the carrier group and to send bombers with a fighter air cover group and of course recon and jamming aircraft to deal with enemy air defences... plus of course anti sub helicopters and aircrew recovery helicopters etc etc.

    In comparison the Russian carriers are air defence primarily with anti ship capability in the form of large supersonic Granit anti ship missiles under the main flight deck. (Kiev class and Kuznetsov)

    And nothing is deemed too expensive for the US military...

    In this scenario small carriers will be based on Leader type nuclear destroyer which will drastically lower construction and exploitation costs.

    I suspect they probably mean a double hull vessel perhaps using a cat design... which would actually be rather interesting... having two separate runways and two separate landing strips with angled decks so all four processes could go on one after the other...

    At the end of the day there is no such thing as a cheap aircraft carrier...

    Depending of course on your strategy. Russian fleet is so far not foreseen to wage colonial wars and change not compliant governments using hr Goebbels cr@p propaganda. v

    True, but there is value in being able to send a carrier group to an unstable region to assert your will... having an operational carrier group off the coast in the Kosovo conflict and being able to fly aircraft in the area and I am sure NATO would not have been nearly so cocky, and the result might not have been such a foregone conclusion.

    Not suggesting new Russian carriers would have saved the day, but the west would have been rather more willing to listen I suspect and actively taking part in Libyas civil war in the earlier stages might have stopped it progressing to a bloody civil war that ISIS seems likely to win.

    So no extra costs and less mission compromising to a scenarios if AC is lost. [/qutoe]

    Does that really make sense?

    Make the PAK FA cheap and basically rubbish so if one gets shot down it is not such a big deal??? Really?

    BTW unfortunately unlikely Yak-141 will be resumed and I wonder how many PAK-FA derivatives can be based on 20-30k ship?

    Likely not enough.

    General rule of thumb is one aircraft per 1K ton so a 20-30K ton ship would have 20-30 aircraft.


    Interesting how deep needs to be hull redesigned to make if an effective AC? Originally leader is 14-16k ton class. So they would need to make 24-30?

    Or take "based on" loosely and perhaps look at double or even triple hull variations...

    [qutoe]
    Imo Leader is not viable platform for any type of carrier, unless maybe some kind of helicopter carrier, its simply way to small, 200m long 15ish k ton displacement. Even ill fated Kiev class was 270+ m long and it couldnt rly support anything but VTOLs.

    A twin or triple hull version with EM cats could be an option but a proper large vessel makes more sense to me.

    Well words about Leader based AC were of Russian admiral not mine

    The question is what does he mean by based and what does he mean by carrier... are we talking as I have mentioned multihulled fixed wing carrier or are we talking single hull Mistral replacement...

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    Post  Guest Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:44 pm

    Leader is way to small as platform for real carrier, unless they ment "based" as in same manner like using same but lengtened type of hull or same propulsion or something of that sort. Leader as the concept we know about, might be viable as a base for LHD but real carrier i dont rly think so. But as baseline for LHD sure, its about 200m long and 15k in displacement (about 15k) so it fits the profile, as Mistral is 200m long and has 17k displacement empty.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:30 am

    Imagine a double or triple hull Leader with 2 full 200m decks.

    For those not understanding what I mean... Right now they have what is called an angled deck where aircraft can land at any time from the rear on an angled deck with arrestor wires where they can try to land but if they miss the wires they can apply full AB and get airborne again and come around for another landing. Because the rear landing path is angled you can put aircraft on the front portion for takeoffs at the same time so while plans are landing other planes can be taking off and if for whatever reason an aircraft has a problem landing from having to take off again because it missed the wires or if it crashes because of its angled path it should not effect the aircraft ready for takeoff... the wreckage would be cleared and operations would continue...

    With a twin or triple hull carrier you can use the length of the decks on one side for takeoff and on the other for landing.

    Often with an angled deck like on the Kuznetsov you can have two shorter take off positions which is ok for emergency air defence fighters to protect the fleet in a hurry, but for missions with a heavier load either long range strike or tanker the longer takeoff spot is often in the middle of the landing angled track so can only be used when aircraft are not landing.

    Of course if one deck is for landing and one is for taking off they will need to be able to switch roles when all the aircraft on each side are full or depleted respectively.

    Will need a lot of experimentation and testing... you would need two EM cats for a start... but then if you are going to weaponise them as iron bomb launchers then having two would be useful...

    The most important points are that a double or triple hull vessel will become rather unwieldy and would need engine pods for manouver capability but will be too wide for some locations.

    Second even the biggest carrier today does not have 300m takeoff runs as the angled deck to the rear takes up an enormous amount of space... having two hulls with each dedicated to take off or landing means even a 200m long vessel will be plenty of space for takeoffs and landings as current carrier aircraft operate from much smaller landing and take off strips.
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    Post  George1 Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:25 pm

    Bester-1 deep submergence vehicle to be put into service of the Pacific Fleet rescue service

    Russian Navy: Status & News #2 - Page 30 Glybikivodnii_korabl_S1

    The Bester-1 deep submergence vehicle has been delivered onboard the ship Alagez reinforcing the 79th rescue detachment of the Pacifiv Fleet. Its crew consists of 6 members who have already passed all the stages of professional training.

    The unique new-generation bathyscaph is fitted with unique control systems, modern camera for coupling to the rescue exit of a submarine. The vehicle will be capable of evacuating people with ship’s lurch of 45 degrees.

    Bester-1 deep submergence rescue vehicle of 18271 project can be submerged at the depth of 700 meters. It is fitted with newest automated control systems in order to perform assigned tasks more effectively.

    http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12076222@egNews
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    Post  Austin Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:55 pm

    Any one access to Janes can post the full article

    Russian submarine activity topping Cold War levels
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:39 pm

    The Sputnik report based on the Janes report mentioned above.

    Top ranking NATO officials are becoming concerned with technologically advanced Russian submarines operating in the North Atlantic. According to Vice Admiral Clive Johnstone, Commander of NATO's Maritime Command, his subordinates report "more activity from Russian submarines than we've seen since the days of the Cold War", HIS Jane’s points out. NATO is currently facing "a level of Russian capability that we haven't seen before," he added.

    According to the vice admiral, Russia has managed to achieve "technology leaps that [are] remarkable, and credit to them" through "an extraordinary investment path not mirrored by the West." The new Russian submarines have better systems and longer operational ranges, he added.

    Furthermore, it has become apparent that Russia has also worked hard on improving the expertise of its naval submarine crews, Dave Majumdar, the Defense Editor of The National Interest, remarks citing a report by the US Office of Naval Intelligence. As a result, NATO personnel have "seen a rise in professionalism and ability to operate their boats that we haven't seen before", Johnstone adds.

    The current level of Russian submarine activity in the North Atlantic is "very different from the period of quiet submarine activity that perhaps we've seen in the past," Vice Admiral Johnstone concludes, claiming that "that is a concern."


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160203/1034167452/russia-nato-submarine-operations.html#ixzz3z8SP4R4z
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    Post  OminousSpudd Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:33 am

    JohninMK wrote: The Sputnik report based on the Janes report mentioned above.

    Top ranking NATO officials are becoming concerned with technologically advanced Russian submarines operating in the North Atlantic. According to Vice Admiral Clive Johnstone, Commander of NATO's Maritime Command, his subordinates report "more activity from Russian submarines than we've seen since the days of the Cold War", HIS Jane’s points out. NATO is currently facing "a level of Russian capability that we haven't seen before," he added.

    According to the vice admiral, Russia has managed to achieve "technology leaps that [are] remarkable, and credit to them" through "an extraordinary investment path not mirrored by the West." The new Russian submarines have better systems and longer operational ranges, he added.

    Furthermore, it has become apparent that Russia has also worked hard on improving the expertise of its naval submarine crews, Dave Majumdar, the Defense Editor of The National Interest, remarks citing a report by the US Office of Naval Intelligence. As a result, NATO personnel have "seen a rise in professionalism and ability to operate their boats that we haven't seen before", Johnstone adds.

    The current level of Russian submarine activity in the North Atlantic is "very different from the period of quiet submarine activity that perhaps we've seen in the past," Vice Admiral Johnstone concludes, claiming that "that is a concern."


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160203/1034167452/russia-nato-submarine-operations.html#ixzz3z8SP4R4z

    It appears that Vice Admiral Johnson "cut his teeth" tracking 90's era Russian Naval activity. Vice Admiral Johnson should probably get with the program. Or maybe Vice Admiral Johnson needs to retire. lol1

    Yep: He pretty much did... http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=468

    Oh 'Murica where is your old guard?
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    Post  George1 Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:59 am

    Source: in the Mediterranean squadron may enter up to 20 ships

    MOSCOW, February 5 -. RIA News Team of the Mediterranean squadron of Navy fleet of Russia, depending on the tasks up to 20 ships, told RIA Novosti on Friday, the military-diplomatic source.

    In July 2015 Black Sea Fleet Commander Admiral Alexander Vitko said that the average number of the task force of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea at the time was 10 warships and support vessels.

    "The number can range from 10 to 20 ships, depending on the intensity of the situation and increase the range of tasks missile, anti-submarine and landing ships form the basis of a permanent connection to the Mediterranean Sea Resourcing group by courts to ensure fleets on a rotating basis..", - Said the source agency.
    © RIA Novosti. Basil Batanov | Buy image
    In defending the country's interests in the world's oceans. Navy ships. Photowire

    He added that the task of search and rescue support rescue tugboats performed Northern, Black Sea and Pacific fleets.

    Russia has started formation of the Mediterranean squadron, sending in March 2013 in the region detachment of ships of the Pacific Fleet. Now part of the Mediterranean group on a rotating basis involving ships and vessels of the Pacific, the North, Baltic and Black Sea fleets. Logistics Mediterranean Squadron made mostly with a stationary point in the Syrian Tartous.
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    Post  max steel Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:47 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    JohninMK wrote: The Sputnik report based on the Janes report mentioned above.

    Top ranking NATO officials are becoming concerned with technologically advanced Russian submarines operating in the North Atlantic. According to Vice Admiral Clive Johnstone, Commander of NATO's Maritime Command, his subordinates report "more activity from Russian submarines than we've seen since the days of the Cold War", HIS Jane’s points out. NATO is currently facing "a level of Russian capability that we haven't seen before," he added.

    According to the vice admiral, Russia has managed to achieve "technology leaps that [are] remarkable, and credit to them" through "an extraordinary investment path not mirrored by the West." The new Russian submarines have better systems and longer operational ranges, he added.

    Furthermore, it has become apparent that Russia has also worked hard on improving the expertise of its naval submarine crews, Dave Majumdar, the Defense Editor of The National Interest, remarks citing a report by the US Office of Naval Intelligence. As a result, NATO personnel have "seen a rise in professionalism and ability to operate their boats that we haven't seen before", Johnstone adds.

    The current level of Russian submarine activity in the North Atlantic is "very different from the period of quiet submarine activity that perhaps we've seen in the past," Vice Admiral Johnstone concludes, claiming that "that is a concern."


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160203/1034167452/russia-nato-submarine-operations.html#ixzz3z8SP4R4z

    It appears that Vice Admiral Johnson "cut his teeth" tracking 90's era Russian Naval activity. Vice Admiral Johnson should probably get with the program. Or maybe Vice Admiral Johnson needs to retire. lol1

    Yep: He pretty much did... http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/navybio.asp?bioID=468

    Oh 'Murica where is your old guard?


    I have no respect for The National Interest magazine nor for pseudo-military (and pseudo-scientific) BS it spreads. I also view (in)famous Jane's with a great deal of irony, politely speaking--these were the guys, who on the eve of Debaltsevo disaster were spreading Ukronazi propaganda about how the victory for criminals in Kiev was at hand. But I DO respect Royal Navy. It is a Navy with glorious history and one which, actually, has the experience, however bloody, with modern naval combat--a true, however limited, one. So, when I read this:

    "NATO submarines are seeing “more activity from Russian submarines than we've seen since the days of the Cold War,” Royal Navy Vice Adm. Clive Johnstone, commander of NATO's Maritime Command told IHS Jane’s. He added that NATO submarines are encountering “a level of Russian capability that we haven't seen before.”


    I understand that neither Mr. Majumdar nor TNI's staff know what КОН (Coefficient Of Operational Tension (Strain)) is, but I fully expect Royal Navy's Vice Adm. Clive Johnstone to know that. Let me elaborate:

    КОН, to put it in layman's lingo, is the ratio of the days a ship is on the combat patrol (at sea) to the number of days in a year. So, when we say that this coefficient is 0.5 it means that the ship is in the sea for 365/2=182.5 days. It is one of those operational coefficients which are considered strongly when planning combat training and operations in the sea (ocean).


    Now, consider this: even a brief excursion into Wiki, gives us a number of the Cold War Soviet Submarine Fleet for 1990 at:

    Soviet Navy

    63 ballistic missile submarines
    72 cruise missile submarine
    64 nuclear attack submarine
    65 conventional attack submarine
    --------------------------------------------
    264 subs of all types.

    Now a military "secret".... drum roll....the KOH for Soviet subs varied. For example, for older SSBNs (boomers) of Delta-I class it could be as low as 0.2, meaning that this class was on patrol only for 73 days out of 365. It means that while some subs were on patrol, others were in the dock or in refit. For younger Deltas-III (667 BDR) or even younger Delta IVs (667 BDRM) the KOH could be higher, sometimes substantially higher. As per multipurpose Victors-III (671 RTM) or Akulas (971) this KOH could be even higher. And then were those SSKs--that is a separate story altogether. So, in order for us to be objective, let us assume a very low KOH=0.3 for all classes of Soviet Cold War subs. Let's multiply: 264 x 0.3 = almost 80. This means, that NATO navies had to deal with 80 Soviet subs on patrol every day, from Soviet littoral to Pacific and Indian Oceans. FYI, US Navy's boomers had a higher KOH, as an example.


    for the Russian Navy:

    Russian Navy

    60 subs of all types. Let us assume KOH for those of 0.4 (newest types are still on trials). Well, you know the answer, don't you? 60 x 0.4 =24, and even this number is way too generous. In reality, it is smaller than that, probably about 20 at best. So, if Admiral Clive Johnstone thinks that having 4 times less combat patrols is comparable to "the days of Cold War", I don't know, really. But it is in the open and fanboys of all colors will get on it shortly. Meanwhile, life is full of BS and there is NO reason whatsoever to propagate even more of it, especially when detached from the larger framework of doctrines (in Russian Navy's case--of Sea Denial) and operations. As per Russian subs--yes, they are pretty good but then again, what did they expect--that Russian Navy would fight with 14" guns and steam? No, really tongue

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    Post  max steel Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:09 pm

    Russian Missile Cruiser Varyag to Be Modernized by 2020

    According to a source in the Russian defense industry, the flagship of the Russian Pacific Fleet, Guards’ missile cruiser Varyag, will undergo a modernization until 2020. The flagship of the Russian Pacific Fleet, Guards’ missile cruiser Varyag, will undergo a modernization until 2020, a source in the Russian defense industry said Friday. "An overhaul and modernization of the Pacific Fleet's Guards missile cruiser Varyag will be carried out in the period until 2020," the source told RIA Novosti.

    He added that the modernization implies equipping of the cruiser with new radioelectronic weapons, and upgrading of the propulsion system.
    The Varyag is a Slava-class guided missile cruiser commissioned in 1989.
    It was designed as surface strike ship with anti-air and anti-submarine warfare capability, and has a primary armament of sixteen P-1000 Vulkan nuclear-capable supersonic cruise missiles.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:00 pm

    Source: Building 6 diesel submarine "Varshavyanka" for TOF could start in 2017


    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160205/1370042592.html

    MOSCOW, 5 Jan — RIA Novosti. The decision to build six diesel-electric submarines of project 636 "Varshavyanka" for Pacific fleet (PF) will be made in the near future, the first submarine of the series can be introduced already in 2017, reported RIA Novosti on Friday a source in the military-industrial complex of Russia.
    Earlier the head of Department of shipbuilding of the Navy of Russia the captain of 1 rank Vladimir Trapeznikov said that the Pacific fleet is planned to be enhanced by a series of six submarines of project 636 "warszawianka", without specifying when it plans to begin construction. Later Deputy commander of the Navy Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov said that the final decision on the construction of "Varshavyanki" for Toph is still pending.

    Soon a decision will be made. The construction may start from 2017. The company will be determined by the competition conditions taking into account the state of production facilities and experience in building diesel-electric submarines," — said the Agency interlocutor.

    "



    max steel wrote:Russian Missile Cruiser Varyag to Be Modernized by 2020

    He added that the modernization implies equipping of the cruiser with new radioelectronic weapons, and upgrading of the propulsion system.
    The Varyag is a Slava-class guided missile cruiser commissioned in 1989.
    It was designed as surface strike ship with anti-air and anti-submarine warfare capability, and has a primary armament of sixteen P-1000 Vulkan nuclear-capable supersonic cruise missiles.


    I hope that also V-1000 will be replaced modernized Onyxes or Zircons. And OSA by Pantsir/or Tor
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    Post  max steel Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:04 pm

    Rating combat power of Russian Navy increased by 21% for two years in comparison with the US Navy.Central Navy Portal publishes its annual rating of the combat capabilities of the Russian Navy and the US Navy. Over the past two years the Russian fleet managed to break the trend in keeping up with the strongest navy in the world. What happened in 2011 – 2012 years of decline in the combat capabilities of the Navy is explained by the commissioning of new US Navy submarines and surface ships with an increased combat capability.

    According to experts of the Central Navy Portal level of combat capabilities of the Russian Navy in 2014 amounted to 51.73% of the combat capabilities of the US Navy. A year earlier the rate was 45.48%, in 2012 – 42.7%, in 2011 – 52%. The relative growth rate in 2012 – 2014 years was 21.14%.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:18 pm

    Source: about 20 ships and submarines of the Russian Navy are being upgraded


    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160208/1371291948.html

    Modernization and repair are the cruisers Marshall Ustinov and "Admiral Nakhimov", anti-submarine ships "Admiral Chabanenko" and "Admiral Tributs", patrol ship "fearless" and amphibious ships "Kaliningrad" and "Oslyabya", said a source in the Russian military-industrial complex.

    MOSCOW, 8 Feb — RIA Novosti. About 20 ships and submarines from fighting structure of the Navy of Russia are currently undergoing repairs and modernization of domestic enterprises, reported RIA Novosti on Monday a source in Russian military-industrial complex.

    The staff of the Russian Navy: the presence in the World ocean - a normal practice
    Earlier, Navy commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov said that all the big anti-submarine ships project 1155 will be upgraded and are armed with the latest cruise missiles complexes "Caliber". Commander in chief also noted that up to 2020 will be upgraded about ten nuclear submarines of project 971 "Pike-B" 949 "Antey".

    "To date are the repair and upgrading of approximately 20 ships and submarines of various projects, including the made active modernization and repair of missile cruiser "Marshal Ustinov", the heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov", the large anti-submarine ship "Admiral Chabanenko" large anti-submarine ship "Admiral Tributs", patrol ship "fearless", large landing ships "Kaliningrad" and "Oslyabya"," — said the Agency interlocutor.
    He added that the repair and modernization at the present time are of the order of 10 submarines of various projects.


    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160208/1371291948.html#ixzz3zZf6VS3g






    I love this "about" like I am partially prego Laughing


    max steel wrote:Rating combat power of Russian Navy increased by 21% for two years in comparison with the US Navy.Central Navy Portal publishes its annual rating of the combat capabilities of the Russian Navy and the US Navy. Over the past two years the Russian fleet managed to break the trend in keeping up with the strongest navy in the world. What happened in 2011 – 2012 years of decline in the combat capabilities of the Navy is explained by the commissioning of new US Navy submarines and surface ships with an increased combat capability.

    According to experts of the Central Navy Portal level of combat capabilities of the Russian Navy in 2014 amounted to 51.73% of the combat capabilities of the US Navy. A year earlier the rate was 45.48%, in 2012 – 42.7%, in 2011 – 52%. The relative growth rate in 2012 – 2014 years was 21.14%.

    2012 - 42,7%
    2014 - 51,73 %

    so 21% is not relatively to US navy bot comparison Russian navy in 2012 and 2014, right?
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    Post  Isos Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:33 pm

    Russian navy vs soviet navy :

    https://i.imgur.com/j0eRoln.jpg
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:10 pm

    Isos wrote:Russian navy vs soviet navy :

    https://i.imgur.com/j0eRoln.jpg

    Wow, those Nato commanders must have been smoking some serious sh#t when they claimed that Russian naval activity "surpassed" that of the Soviet Union a few days back. Shocked
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    Post  max steel Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:13 pm

    Isos wrote:Russian navy vs soviet navy :

    https://i.imgur.com/j0eRoln.jpg

    It hurts. Such a downfall.

    @Alfat8 : https://www.russiadefence.net/t4282p255-russian-navy-status-news-3#149852
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    Post  Isos Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:20 pm

    max steel wrote:
    Isos wrote:Russian navy vs soviet navy :

    https://i.imgur.com/j0eRoln.jpg

    It hurts. Such a downfall.

    @Alfat8 : https://www.russiadefence.net/t4282p255-russian-navy-status-news-3#149852

    Not so much if you compare the caracteristics of ships. Now a Gorshkov frigate is way better than any soviet destroyer, 30 of them + 20 Grigorovitch could give a advantage. However the number of SNA and cruisers hurts.
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    Post  Guest Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:35 pm

    Well, capital ships are extremly expencive to build and operate, and with Nikolayev shipyard ending up in Ukraine Russia lost one of major capital ship building assets. So basically for 25 years there were no capital ships built only hull repairs and low lvl modernisations of existing ones.
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    Post  George1 Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:41 am

    News on Russian naval shipbuilding

    1) Corvette "Loud" which is being built at the Amur shipyard will receive superstructure made of composite materials, made at the same factory. For corvette "Perfect" superstructure made in St. Petersburg, and then dragged across half the world. 4th Corvette in Komsomolsk-on-Amur is expected in 2016.

    2) According to the Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet on Logistics Major General Alexey Lemyakin, Black Sea Fleet this year will receive a new minesweeper. Perhaps he is referring trawler project 12700 "George Kurbatov".

    3) As of February at Zelenodolsk plant will be laid 3rd 22160 project patrol boat, which will be called "Pavel Derzhavin." The ship is named in honor of Captain 1st rank of the Hero of the Soviet Union.

    http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/608254.html



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    Post  Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:42 am

    Russian Navy: Status & News #2 - Page 30 CamjKjzW4AEDnQP
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:08 am

    max steel wrote:
    Isos wrote:Russian navy vs soviet navy :

    https://i.imgur.com/j0eRoln.jpg

    It hurts. Such a downfall.

    @Alfat8 : https://www.russiadefence.net/t4282p255-russian-navy-status-news-3#149852

    ............................................................................

    "The potential of the new battleships in two to three times higher than the ships of the former construction period, they have greatly increased the fleet in its capabilities." - Said the commander of the fleet, responding to the question of the Supreme Commander of how proven received on Black Sea Fleet new missile ships and submarines.

    Black Sea Fleet Commander, Admiral Alexander Vitko, on videoconferencing commander in chief Vladimir Putin
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    Post  Guest Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:56 pm

    Delivery of new minesweeper "Aleksandr Obukhov" delayed until Jun 2016.

    Russian Navy: Status & News #2 - Page 30 121811814

    Source: https://rns.online/military/Korabl-protivominnoi-oboroni-aleksandr-Obuhov-peredadut-VMF-v-iyune--2016-02-13/
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    Post  max steel Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:28 pm

    max steel wrote:
    JohninMK wrote: The Sputnik report based on the Janes report mentioned above.

    [i]Top ranking NATO officials are becoming concerned with technologically advanced Russian submarines operating in the North Atlantic. According to Vice Admiral Clive Johnstone, Commander of NATO's Maritime Command, his subordinates report "more activity from Russian submarines than we've seen since the days of the Cold War",



    I have no respect for The National Interest magazine nor for pseudo-military (and pseudo-scientific) BS it spreads. I also view (in)famous Jane's with a great deal of irony, politely speaking--these were the guys, who on the eve of Debaltsevo disaster were spreading Ukronazi propaganda about how the victory for criminals in Kiev was at hand. But I DO respect Royal Navy.  It is a Navy with glorious history and one which, actually, has the experience, however bloody, with modern naval combat--a true, however limited, one. So, when I read this:

    "NATO submarines are seeing “more activity from Russian submarines than we've seen since the days of the Cold War,” Royal Navy Vice Adm. Clive Johnstone, commander of NATO's Maritime Command told IHS Jane’s. He added that NATO submarines are encountering “a level of Russian capability that we haven't seen before.”


    I understand that neither Mr. Majumdar nor TNI's staff  know what КОН (Coefficient Of Operational Tension (Strain)) is, but I fully expect Royal Navy's Vice Adm. Clive Johnstone to know that. Let me elaborate:

    КОН, to put it in layman's lingo, is the ratio of the days a ship is on the combat patrol (at sea) to the number of days in a year. So, when we say that this coefficient is 0.5 it means that the ship is in the sea for 365/2=182.5 days. It is one of those operational coefficients which are considered strongly when planning combat training and operations in the sea (ocean).


    Now, consider this: even a brief excursion into Wiki, gives us a number of the Cold War Soviet Submarine Fleet for 1990 at:

    Soviet Navy

    63 ballistic missile submarines
    72 cruise missile submarine
    64 nuclear attack submarine
    65 conventional attack submarine
    --------------------------------------------
    264 subs of all types.

    Now a military "secret".... drum roll....the KOH for Soviet subs varied. For example, for older SSBNs (boomers) of Delta-I class it could be as low as 0.2, meaning that this class was on patrol only for 73 days out of 365. It means that while some subs were on patrol, others were in the dock or in refit. For younger Deltas-III (667 BDR) or even younger Delta IVs (667 BDRM) the KOH could be higher, sometimes substantially higher. As per multipurpose Victors-III (671 RTM) or Akulas (971) this KOH could be even higher. And then were those SSKs--that is a separate story altogether. So, in order for us to be objective, let us assume a very low KOH=0.3 for all classes of Soviet Cold War subs. Let's multiply: 264 x 0.3 = almost 80. This means, that NATO navies had to deal with 80 Soviet subs on patrol every day, from Soviet littoral to Pacific and Indian Oceans.  FYI, US Navy's boomers had a higher KOH, as an example.


    for the Russian Navy:

    Russian Navy

    60 subs of all types. Let us assume KOH for those of 0.4 (newest types are still on trials). Well, you know the answer, don't you? 60 x 0.4 =24, and even this number is way too generous. In reality, it is smaller than that, probably about 20 at best. So, if Admiral Clive Johnstone thinks that having 4 times less combat patrols is comparable to "the days of Cold War", I don't know, really. But it is in the open and fanboys of all colors will get on it shortly. Meanwhile, life is full of BS and there is NO reason whatsoever to propagate even more of it, especially when detached from the larger framework of doctrines (in Russian Navy's case--of Sea Denial) and operations. As per Russian subs--yes, they are pretty good but then again, what did they expect--that Russian Navy would fight with 14" guns and steam? No, really  tongue



    Russian Navy: Status & News #2 - Page 30 Soviet10
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    Post  George1 Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:16 pm

    New project of small anti-submarine ship (23420) by Almaz

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1744165.html
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:25 pm

    George1 wrote:New project of small anti-submarine ship (23420) by Almaz

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1744165.html


    thjey stated AK-306 but this here looks more liker Palash or better Pantsir-M?
    Russian Navy: Status & News #2 - Page 30 Slide-tele-1


    BTW could it not be better basis for corvette instead of 22800?!

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