US-India Defense Ties

Leaving politics aside

Who the hell would be crazy enough to replace a platform like the FGFA with a dud like the F-35A?

The PAK-FA already rapes it on every parameter and the FGFA will be even more overwhelming.

More importantly if India got F-35 they would get what they are given and would have no input at all.

At least with the T-50 they will have complete say on the avionics and other aspects to the point where they could radically change the design if they wanted to. The US wont even let the UK integrate Brimstone and so the Brits basically have to hand over the whole system to the US for the US to integrate it.

flamming_python wrote:Leaving politics aside

But arms and politics go side by side.

Who the hell would be crazy enough to replace a platform like the FGFA with a dud like the F-35A?

Current Indan government is puppet of Uncle Sam.

The PAK-FA already rapes it on every parameter and the FGFA will be even more overwhelming.

You made my day with this comment.

flamming_python wrote:
The PAK-FA already rapes it on every parameter and the FGFA will be even more overwhelming.

of course the indian version would be even better in the rapey-rapey aspects. hehe

collegeboy16 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
The PAK-FA already rapes it on every parameter and the FGFA will be even more overwhelming.

of course the indian version would be even better in the rapey-rapey aspects. hehe

...Wow that's a low blow lol!

magnumcromagnon wrote:
...Wow that's a low blow lol!

sorry if anyone was offended- smiley tabs arent working for me.

collegeboy16 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
The PAK-FA already rapes it on every parameter and the FGFA will be even more overwhelming.

of course the indian version would be even better in the rapey-rapey aspects. hehe

Oh lawd jesus.

I think he meant it would be better endowed and therefore... well you can work it out...

GarryB wrote:I think he meant it would be better endowed and therefore... well you can work it out...

Well I think he meant that the current stage one prototype with 117 engine would **** F-35, so the FGFA- which shall have more powerful engine would do it much better..ahem....

Once the IAF MRCA contract is finalised(this year), after that the Indian Navy will also launch a tender for procuring around 50 MRCA's(that can take of from Aircraft-carriers), and according to most people back home -only Rafale and F-35 would be allowed to participate(STOBAR compatibility required).

Wonder what the Russian offer will be if they were asked to participate as Mig-35 is still not ready(of course even F-35 isn't either).
, also am not sure about its STOBAR compatibility?


So, all in all looks like Dassault will sell more Rafales to India in due course(much to increase the ire of Garry  ).

So, all in all looks like Dassault will sell more Rafales to India in due course(much to increase the ire of Garry Twisted Evil ).

Doesn't bother me.. India can p!ss its money away on anything it likes...

I am a fairly easy going guy but can be very unreasonably stubborn, and I think if I asked France to buy more M2Ks and they refused, and then asked to licence produce them at home as was refused and given the offer of incredibly expensive Rafales which I refused and then wasted years on a competition whose ultimate goal was to allow me to buy the Rafales at a specific price (ie 126 aircraft for 10 Billion dollars) and I find myself inking a document that results in me paying twice that... not only would I not sign, I would seriously consider why I dealt with that supplier... if they couldn't supply the aircraft for the required price they should not have entered the competition.

Once the IAF MRCA contract is finalised(this year), after that the Indian Navy will also launch a tender for procuring around 50 MRCA's(that can take of from Aircraft-carriers), and according to most people back home -only Rafale and F-35 would be allowed to participate(STOBAR compatibility required).

Hehehehehehe... 50 planes... that will be at least 6 billion for the aircraft. The Gorshkov was criticised and the air compliment cost 700 million... this should be funny.

Indian Flanker wrote:Once the IAF MRCA contract is finalised(this year), after that the Indian Navy will also launch a tender for procuring around 50 MRCA's(that can take of from Aircraft-carriers), and according to most people back home -only Rafale and F-35 would be allowed to participate(STOBAR compatibility required).

Wonder what the Russian offer will be if they were asked to participate as Mig-35 is still not ready(of course even F-35 isn't either).
, also am not sure about its STOBAR compatibility?


So, all in all looks like Dassault will sell more Rafales to India in due course(much to increase the ire of Garry  ).

if I was India I will chose F35 for sure , F35B　is best fit for India navy, but I am not sure how much India can absorb the technology from F35 . If China have a chance to buy F 35 ,China will defiantly resolve F35 and learn technology. no matter how expensive F35 is ~

Russia is increasing military cooperation with India

Russia and India have systematically increased their cooperation in the military and military-technical cooperation spheres in 2014, within the ‘privileged strategic partnership’ the two countries share. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation detailed this cooperation in its Annual Report on Activities for 2014, posted on the Ministry’s official website.


“Against the background of anti-Russian sanctions pressure, being imposed by the West, Moscow continued to increase cooperation with countries in the Asia-Pacific Region (APR),” the report noted. “The main focus was placed on this cooperation leading to a positive impact on Russia’s regions, and in particular the Far East and Siberia.”

In relations with India, Russia continued the highly dynamic dialogue within the ‘privileged strategic partnership’ of the two countries.
According to the report, on December 11, 2014, during the annual Russia-India Summit, in New Delhi, the new Indian leadership reaffirmed the country’s commitment to intensify bilateral relations.


“As part of the implementation of the flagship project in the energy sector – the construction of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant in India – the first energy block was connected to the electricity grid of the country, and work on the second block is continuing. Military and military-technical cooperation also grew steadily; in Russia, joint exercises were held by all branches of the Indian armed forces, and the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (earlier the Admiral Gorshkov) entered into service in the Indian Navy,” the Foreign Ministry report said.


Commenting on development of relations with China, the report stated that one of the priorities was to ensure continued peace and stability on the borders, creating a positive environment to stimulate further development of cross-border cooperation.


“Based on an agreement between heads of the two governments, the first joint verification is being carried out along the border between the two countries (between 2012 and 2016). The goal is to determine the changes that have occurred in the topography during the more than 10 years since demarcation was completed,” the document states.

“The mechanism of confidence-building measures in the military field, and monitoring the reduction of armed forces in areas bordering China is proceeding successfully.”On relations with Japan, the report stated that, despite broad involvement of Japan in the “sanctions war” of the West, the 6th meeting of the Russia-Japan Investment Forum was held, during which 11 memoranda and agreements were signed. Additionally, on December 5, 2014, the fourth meeting of the Russia-Japan Advisory Council took place in Vladivostok. This meeting focused on modernization of the Russian economy, and saw presentation of several dozen major projects aimed at modernization and expansion of exports of high-value- added products.

India, United States Sign 10-Year Defense Cooperation Agreement

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150603/1022909517.html#ixzz3c4HktHwm

"The US-based aircraft manufacturer Boeing has offered to manufacture its F/A-18 fighter jets — the mainstay of the US navy — in India through the government's Make in India programme, taking another stab at winning a potential multi-billion contract from one of the world's biggest military spenders. "We are taking a hard look at the opportunity for the F/A-18 fighter jet as an area where we can build industrial capacity, supply chain partnerships, technical depth, design and manufacturing capability in India, providing an operational capability that is useful for Indian defence forces," Boeing Chief Executive Officer Dennis A Muilenburg said in New Delhi on Tuesday.

"Make in India is an enabler aligned with that strategy," said Muilenburg. The F/A-18 lost out in the government's medium multi-role fighter aircraft (MMRCA) procurement programme — designed to replace ageing Indian Air Force jets — to French company Dassault Aviation's Rafale fighter jets. But the Rafale deal for 36 planes, estimated to be worth $9 billion, has been stuck over negotiations over price.



Boeing's latest offer to help the government create an industrial ecosystem to build its fighter planes signals it sees an opportunity in the delays over the Rafale deal. Military officials and Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar have said the government is open to buying an alternative fighter jet. "Our intent here is to build an industrial framework for the long run that builds on the aerospace investments being made not only by programme by programme, but also by long-term industrial capacity that is globally competitive," said Muilenburg, who is visiting India for the first time since becoming CEO of the $91-billion aerospace giant last July. The government has long been looking to end its reliance on foreign arms makers and create a homegrown military manufacturing sector. The Make in India manufacturing programme is expected to be a springboard to these efforts."

Source: http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/global-defense-security-news/global-news-2016/february/2364-boeing-offers-to-produce-f-a-18-fighter-jets-under-make-in-india-program.html

Washington Sends Guided Missile Warships to Boost Ties to India - US Navy

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160205/1034255379/us-navy-warships-india-ties.html#ixzz3zGT0ieYU

George1 wrote:Washington Sends Guided Missile Warships to Boost Ties to India - US Navy

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160205/1034255379/us-navy-warships-india-ties.html#ixzz3zGT0ieYU

US trying hard to lure/influence Indians against China by sending phony tie boosting signals. Some countries just want to stay away from US, and, most of all, not to depend on them for anything. An example is India. U.S. government and private arms salesmen have worked for years to make India a big client for American weapons. India has chosen instead to smile at Americans but to continue to buy its arms from Russia.

India Considers US Lockheed Martin Offer to Manufacture F-16 Fighter Jets


Besides the F-16s, the US side has also offered other options for warplanes, whose production may be launched in India. The proposal includes aircraft production both for the domestic market and exports, The Economic Times noted.

On Saturday, Indian Foreign Secretary Subrahmanyam Jaishankar summoned US Ambassador Richard Verma to express dissatisfaction after Washington announced the US Department of State had approved the sale of eight F-16 combat aircraft and other equipment to Pakistan.

Lockheed Martin offers India to produce more advanced version of the jets than those that will be delivered to Pakistan, the newspaper said.

Lockheed Martin is not the only company that came up with a business proposal on military equipment. Swedish SAAB offered to set up the production of the Gripen multirole fighter aircraft, whereas the French-based Airbus company suggested launching the Eurofighter jets’ manufacture in India.

India, US Discuss Cooperation in Carrier Technology

India and the US discussed the possibility of cooperation in carrier technology this week, but sources in India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) said no agreement was reached.

The discussion took place from Feb. 15-18 in a second meeting of the Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Co-operation (JWGACTC), part of the Indo-US Defense Trade and Technology Initiative.

"Various aspects of cooperation in the field of aircraft carrier technology were discussed and a joint statement signed," the MoD said in a statement Feb.19.

India is exploring the possibility of US cooperation in building a second indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC-2), INS Vishal, which is still on the drawing board.

The Indian Navy has kept the option open for use of an Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS), regarded as an advanced system, which the US offered to India for IAC-2 during US President Barack Obama's visit to India in January 2015.

EMALS is expected to be more versatile, allowing a variety of aircraft to be launched with the same system, which could include medium- and light-weight aircraft and India's homegrown Light Combat Aircraft.

Planned to carry more than 50 fighter jets and helicopters, IAC-2 will be built in India. The Indian Navy is deciding whether IAC-2 will have a conventional or nuclear propulsion system. The ship is expected to cost more than $6 billion.

Parrikar rules out joint patrolling with the US in Asia Pacific


India on Friday ruled out the possibility of undertaking joint naval patrolling or hopping on board a quadrilateral security dialogue in the Asia Pacific region, which has been proposed by the US as a counter to China's aggressive behaviour in the South China Sea and elsewhere.

"Till now, India has never participated in joint patrolling. We do participate in joint exercises. So, the question of joint patrolling at this stage does not arise," said defence minister Manohar Parrikar.

India, for instance, will be undertaking the Malabar naval exercise with the US and Japan, off the Japanese coast in the Pacific, in June-July.

This comes three days after the visiting US Pacific command chief admiral Harry Harris pitched for a quadrilateral security dialogue among India, Japan, Australia and the US, even as he hoped that joint patrolling would materialise in the Asia-Pacific region in "the not too distant future", as was reported by TOI.

India has for long positioned itself as "a neutral player" in the ongoing geopolitical jostling between the US and China, especially in the South China Sea where the latter is locked in bitter territorial disputes with its neighbours.

"I am not responding to what the US admiral has said. Our viewpoint will come to you if we at all consider any such thing from our side,"
said Parrikar.

Asked whether India was going to ink the nearly-finalised Logistics Support Agreement (LSA) when US defence secretary Ash Carter comes visiting India next month, Parrikar said the government would take all decisions in the interest of the country.

"It has to benefit the nation on various counts. We definitely would say that our government is very active on almost everything. We don't like to unnecessarily delay things. So, we definitely do paper work, discussions are going on many things," he said.


The US has been pushing the bilateral "foundational agreements" like the LSA, the Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA) for over a decade now.

Though the previous UPA regime had stonewalled them, the NDA government feels the LSA is "relatively easier to ink", while more clarifications and discussions are needed on the CISMOA and BECA, as was reported by TOI.


Modelled on the Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreements the US has inked with scores of countries, the LSA envisages the two militaries providing logistic support, refuelling and berthing facilities for each other's warships and aircraft on a barter or an equal-value exchange basis.

max steel wrote:Parrikar rules out joint patrolling with the US in Asia Pacific

Do US neocons actually think India would spill their blood, as a meatshield, to defend Anglo Saxon interests lmao....

magnumcromagnon wrote:Do US neocons actually think India would spill their blood, as a meatshield, to defend Anglo Saxon interests lmao....

I suspect you missed the part where neocons are trying to make america great again

Resolution introduced to bring India on par with NATO allies

A Congressional resolution aiming to bring India on par with America's NATO allies in terms of trade and technology transfer besides elevating its status in export of defense articles from the US has been introduced ahead of Defense Secretary Ashton Carter's visit to India.

Introduced by Congressman George Holding, Co-Chair of the House India Caucus, the US-India Defense Technology and Partnership Act (HR 4825) proposes to amends the Arms Export Control Action so as to formalise India's status for the purpose of congressional notifications as a major partner of equal status as America's treaty allies and closest partners.

"This legislation will cement the process that has already been made and will lay a foundation for future cooperation and growth," Holding told the US House of Representatives.

"This legislation will elevate India's status by shortening the time required for the notification of sale or export of defense articles from the United States to India. It will encourage more joint contingency planning and require the US government review and assess India's ability to execute military operations of mutual interest," Holding said.

Welcoming the resolution, introduced ahead of US Defense Secretary Carter's visit to India early next month, the US India Business Council (USIBC) said that it sent an important signal to the Indian defense establishment that today's political conditions are different from the past.

"This bill not only puts India on par with other NATO allies in terms of the notification period, it sends a clear signal to Washington and Delhi that defence cooperation should be a top priority for both governments," Holding said.

Defence trade between the US and India is one of the strongest areas of the bilateral economic relationship and has risen from some USD 300 million to over USD 14 billion over the last 10 years, said Mukesh Aghi, USIBC president.

Noting that together the US and India face a range of shared security challenges, Holding underlined the need to encourage deeper bilateral defense ties and closer cooperation.

"The US-India Defense Technology and Partnership Act will build upon the recent progress made to strengthen our strategic partnership by facilitating closer collaboration, promoting greater defense trade, and by elevating India's status," he said.

In his remarks, Holding also questioned the decision of the Obama Administration to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan.

"What, I ask, is the benefit of the sale to our national security and the security of the region and our partners? This is one question, but the request to use taxpayer dollars to finance the sale of these F-16s to Pakistan is entirely another question," he asked.


"What has Pakistan actually done to deserve these fighter jets let alone financing from the United States taxpayers? Certainly not enough, in my view, as I firmly oppose the sale from start to finish," Holding said.

max steel wrote:Resolution introduced to bring India on par with NATO allies

A Congressional resolution aiming to bring India on par with America's NATO allies in terms of trade and technology transfer besides elevating its status in export of defense articles from the US has been introduced ahead of Defense Secretary Ashton Carter's visit to India.

Introduced by Congressman George Holding, Co-Chair of the House India Caucus, the US-India Defense Technology and Partnership Act (HR 4825) proposes to amends the Arms Export Control Action so as to formalise India's status for the purpose of congressional notifications as a major partner of equal status as America's treaty allies and closest partners.

"This legislation will cement the process that has already been made and will lay a foundation for future cooperation and growth," Holding told the US House of Representatives.

"This legislation will elevate India's status by shortening the time required for the notification of sale or export of defense articles from the United States to India. It will encourage more joint contingency planning and require the US government review and assess India's ability to execute military operations of mutual interest," Holding said.

Welcoming the resolution, introduced ahead of US Defense Secretary Carter's visit to India early next month, the US India Business Council (USIBC) said that it sent an important signal to the Indian defense establishment that today's political conditions are different from the past.

"This bill not only puts India on par with other NATO allies in terms of the notification period, it sends a clear signal to Washington and Delhi that defence cooperation should be a top priority for both governments," Holding said.

Defence trade between the US and India is one of the strongest areas of the bilateral economic relationship and has risen from some USD 300 million to over USD 14 billion over the last 10 years, said Mukesh Aghi, USIBC president.

Noting that together the US and India face a range of shared security challenges, Holding underlined the need to encourage deeper bilateral defense ties and closer cooperation.

"The US-India Defense Technology and Partnership Act will build upon the recent progress made to strengthen our strategic partnership by facilitating closer collaboration, promoting greater defense trade, and by elevating India's status," he said.

In his remarks, Holding also questioned the decision of the Obama Administration to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan.

"What, I ask, is the benefit of the sale to our national security and the security of the region and our partners? This is one question, but the request to use taxpayer dollars to finance the sale of these F-16s to Pakistan is entirely another question," he asked.


"What has Pakistan actually done to deserve these fighter jets let alone financing from the United States taxpayers? Certainly not enough, in my view, as I firmly oppose the sale from start to finish," Holding said.

What they really mean is they want India to be underneath their thumb and setting them up to be a meatshield against China, they expect the Indians to forget Nixon ordering the U.S. Navy to attack India, or that they armed Pakistan to the teeth for decades, or putting sanctions on India's nuclear program, or that they have a Anglo-Supermacist relationship with the UK (the nation that enslaved India, and formulated the India/Pakistan split), etc., etc.