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    MiG-31DZ ASAT

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:33 pm

    Are you drunk? The R-29 is 14 metres Long and weights 35 tons!

    This missile is an ASAT and/or carrier for satellites.

    Most ICBMs and SLBMs are three stage missiles or more but that first stage is normally enormous because it needs to take a stationary missile and get it moving vertically and accelerate it... which requires enormous energy and power... so it is generally rather heavy and big.

    If you are going to lift that rocket and put it 10km up in the air past the thickest part of the earths atmosphere and already moving at mach 2 then you can often remove that heavy section and the stage two rocket is much less powerful and uses much less energy because it only has to lift one other stage and the payload.

    Of course a SLBM is designed to maximise its internal volume to completely fill a vertical missile launch tube that is generally about 2m wide, so it would not be the optimum shape for aerodynamic flight under an aircraft... perhaps a Tu-160 in a bomb bay with the rotary launcher removed...

    Launching satellites is rather expensive, so this would be rather interesting... in an emergency this could be flown to any airfield on the planet and launch a package of critical items to the space station in theory... its altitude is 350km, so we are probably talking about 170-180kgs... which would be a lot of food or water or medicine or critical components/materials...
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:24 pm

    4 possible applications for this rocket/missile:

    1. bring a small satellite into space
    2. ASAT (kill vehicle)
    3. ABM (same or another version of the kill vehicle)
    4. deliver a small nucelar device.


    There is also a fifth application: bring a GRU agent into space to smear Novichok onto the door handle of the ISS!  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:40 pm

    1, yes, 2, yes, 3 not so much as it would probably be more useful to have it doing other things while an enemy is attacking... like looking for low flying strike aircraft trying to penetrate your airspace... and 4, interesting idea but there are a lot of simpler and cheaper and quicker ways of doing that.


    Regarding the 5th idea.... you almost got it... not deliver a GRU agent with poison... a GRU hacker to directly hack western satellites.... Twisted Evil
    Hole
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    MiG-31DZ ASAT - Page 2 Empty 4 possible applications for this rocket/missile:

    Post  Hole Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:42 am

    4 possible applications for this rocket/missile:

    1. bring a small satellite into space
    2. ASAT (kill vehicle)
    3. ABM (same or another version of the kill vehicle)
    4. deliver a small nucelar device.

    To point 4 again: this would be a small FOBS so the MiG-31 would become a strategic bomber.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:57 am

    Interesting... though the deorbit rocket motor would take up weight... you could get away with 2-3 separate warheads each with a deorbit motor on it... it probably would not be terribly accurate, but they could arrive from any direction at any time... which would make them rather good for use against an enormous target like the US or EU...

    There is no need for them to use a higher orbit so 300km would be fine... and would mean less energy would be needed for the de orbit burn.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:50 am

    GarryB wrote:1, yes, 2, yes, 3 not so much as it would probably be more useful to have it doing other things while an enemy is attacking... like looking for low flying strike aircraft trying to penetrate your airspace... and 4, interesting idea but there are a lot of simpler and cheaper and quicker ways of doing that.

    Why do you say that? There really isn't 'a lot' simpler, cheaper, quicker ways. Think about this. Through SLBM's, you would need new boomers, and just like ICBM's they're controlled by nuclear treaties, so through that method they're definitely not cheaper financially or politically. Remember all the discussions this forum has had over the years over the use of cruise missiles in relation to MAD? Everyone basically agreed that there more of a "after the fact" weapon, as opposed to the first strike weapons such as ICBM's/SLBM's. I think something like this can answer for that. I could definitely see this being launched within 10-15 minutes of ICBM's/SLBM's, and striking within 20-30 minutes of them, being capable to launch a strategic cruise missiles payload with the speed and range of a FOB's like orbital strike. This definitely would be cheaper financially and politically, as they could just run with the narrative that it's simply a "ASAT weapon" and nothing more, until the nuclear clock strikes 12 midnight. To add to the fact that they are "cheaper politically", is that the U.S. announced both the 'Point Global Strike', as well as the 'Space Force' combined with the fact that the US side doesn't have an analogue, which would mean that their would be very little leverage in a new START treaty to reduce the numbers of them on the Russian side. It's no mere secret with the announcements of PGS and the Space Force, that this is a calculated response shown of the Federations' part.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:27 am

    I think something like this can answer for that. I could definitely see this being launched within 10-15 minutes of ICBM's/SLBM's, and striking within 20-30 minutes of them, being capable to launch a strategic cruise missiles payload with the speed and range of a FOB's like orbital strike.

    The reason I say that is because 10-15 minutes after ICBMs are launched the Tu-95s and Tu-160s will be airborne on their way to launch nuclear armed cruise missiles, but most of the MiG-31s will be armed with R-37M missiles and will be looking for missile armed US strategic aircraft coming over the north pole... some will have Kinzhal looking for US carriers or AEGIS destroyers, but how many will be available to use FOBS weapons?

    It would make more sense for them to be attacking US satellites as they come over so that by the time US missiles (cruise and ballistic) arrive they will not get any support from their now depleted satellite network over Russia...

    In a couple of days time in the far east in some backwater airfield they can launch MiG-31s over and over to launch FOBs against any point on the planet and just keep hammering them while they still have fuel and weapons... but before then there are other things they need to do...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:53 pm


    What is FOB?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:32 am

    FOB is fractional orbital bomb/er.

    In other words instead of lofting a missile up into the air on a ballistic path like a shell from a gun, you actually launch the projectile into orbit... you could make it go around several times, or just a portion of a full orbit and then fire retro rockets to slow down below orbital speed to fall down over the target area.

    The point is that from Russia most ICBMs will go over the north pole and over canada and then land on the US... with FOB, you can launch them over the south pole so they go south over Asia, and Australia and over Antarctica and then up over south and central america and attack the US from the south... where it is not looking...
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    Post  Sujoy Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:10 am

    Is it true that the old 30P6 Kontakt ASAT program using the Mig-31 has been reincarnated and a modernized Mig-31 has begun tests with a new ASAT vector?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 16, 2023 3:17 pm

    Sujoy wrote:Is it true that the old 30P6 Kontakt ASAT program using the Mig-31 has been reincarnated and a modernized Mig-31 has begun tests with a new ASAT vector?

    There were images of it not long ago, a mig 31 carrying a new asat missile.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:10 am

    Anti satellite weapons were banned by the ABM treaty because anything that can shoot down a satellite in orbit could also shoot down something slower like an ICBM or SLBM reentering over your airspace.

    With the US ripping up the ABM treaty Russia is free to resume ABM tests and experiments, and is infact obliged to do so because no doubt the US will be working on such things too.

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