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    Question Thread: Russian Army

    GarryB
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    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:59 am

    Interesting the presence of a parachute badge, but the naval badge on the shoulders identify them as navy...
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:42 am

    GarryB wrote:Interesting the presence of a parachute badge, but the naval badge on the shoulders identify them as navy...

    The patch dates back from Soviet times and is the unofficial badge for the Naval Infantry. Still widely used today and I do hope they keep it that way.
    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Ninf-p10

    The Parachute badge is normally awarded to the recon and air assualt units of the Naval Infantry. Same badge as for the VDV.


    Last edited by Mir on Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:13 am; edited 2 times in total

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:44 am

    GarryB wrote:Interesting the presence of a parachute badge, but the naval badge on the shoulders identify them as navy...

    The Naval Infantry does practice its own paradrop exercises

    Although I'm not sure which situation they will be used in

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:59 am

    flamming_python wrote:All the Navy wears dark blue telnyashkas

    And the Naval Infantry are of course part of the Navy

    No, they are the same colour - dark blue

    Back in the day the Nazis referred to the Soviet Naval Infantry as "black devils" and also "striped devils".

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Telnya10

    This is a Soviet poster boy wearing black.

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Ninf-s10

    This is a modern day guy wearing black.

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Ninf-r12

    Most of the time they seem to wear black but I've seen dark blue as well - even from Soviet times.

    franco
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    Post  franco Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:02 am

    GarryB wrote:Interesting the presence of a parachute badge, but the naval badge on the shoulders identify them as navy...

    The Naval Infantry brigades / regiments include 1 battalion of Air Assault Infantry, hence the para wings.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:06 am

    Mir wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:All the Navy wears dark blue telnyashkas

    And the Naval Infantry are of course part of the Navy

    No, they are the same colour - dark blue

    Back in the day the Nazis referred to the Soviet Naval Infantry as "black devils" and also "striped devils".

    Most of the time they seem to wear black but I've seen dark blue as well - even from Soviet times.


    "flamming python" actually served in the Russian Navy as an FYI to you.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:54 am

    franco wrote:

    "flamming python" actually served in the Russian Navy as an FYI to you.

    I see FP is from St Petersburg. BIG Naval heritage yes!

    The Naval Infantry is something else though - separate branch - including the dress code. You will never see a NINF in this >>
    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Rfn-su10

    Same goes for the Navy - you will not see them wearing any EMR.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:19 am

    From army-today.ru as an example, but this is confirmed by many other sources as I've already illustrated.

    https://army-today.ru/sluzhba/morskaya-pehota

    "The field uniform of the Russian Marine Corps looks almost no different from the standard camouflage used by ordinary motorized rifle units. Nevertheless, you can recognize the modern "sea soldier" by the characteristic black beret, introduced in 1963. Another well-noticeable detail is the traditional vest. It can be distinguished from the same element of clothing of airborne soldiers by the color of the stripes – they are black."

    So the question remains - why do they sometimes wear Dark Blue? Smile
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:14 am

    The Naval Infantry brigades / regiments include 1 battalion of Air Assault Infantry, hence the para wings.

    I wonder if that Air Assault Infantry battalion wears blue stripes?

    I always used to think the black stripes were naval infantry and MVD interior ministry forces, but in the old days with uniforms it was often a mixed bag and of course most photos of naval personnel were tiny dots on ships, or guys in combat uniform attacking a beach head.

    So the question remains - why do they sometimes wear Dark Blue?

    Maybe some military bases have extra strong detergent for washing their clothes and the black fades to dark blue... Smile
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:52 am

    Mir wrote:

    The Naval Infantry is something else though - separate branch - including the dress code. You will never see a NINF in this >>


    The Naval Infantry is not a separate branch

    It goes like this:

    Navy -> Coastal Troops -> Naval Infantry

    So I served in another part of the Coastal Troops, and all Coastal Troops have the same camo field dress as the ground army (except that the Naval Infantry specifically has berets instead of caps).
    While in terms of parade uniform, the Naval Infantry has its very own all-black one that you can see in the photos. Whereas the rest of the Navy inc. the rest of the Coastal Troops have the same one.

    But the telnyashka is the same across the entire Navy - dark blue. And this is confirmed in every single photo you posted, that's what the naval telnyashka looks like. There is no black telnyashka. And I've met my share of Naval Infantry.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:52 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Mir wrote:

    The Naval Infantry is something else though - separate branch - including the dress code. You will never see a NINF in this >>


    The Naval Infantry is not a separate branch

    It goes like this:

    Navy -> Coastal Troops -> Naval Infantry

    So I served in another part of the Coastal Troops, and all Coastal Troops have the same camo field dress as the ground army (except that the Naval Infantry specifically has berets instead of caps).
    While in terms of parade uniform, the Naval Infantry has its very own all-black one that you can see in the photos. Whereas the rest of the Navy inc. the rest of the Coastal Troops have the same one.

    But the telnyashka is the same across the entire Navy - dark blue. And this is confirmed in every single photo you posted, that's what the naval telnyashka looks like. There is no black telnyashka. And I've met my share of Naval Infantry.

    You are quite correct that the Naval Infantry is part of the Coastal Troops. But as I've said at the beginning, they are unique in that they are subordinate firstly to the MOD and secondly also to the Navy - but that is an unimportant technicality but it does allow them to plan operations independently from the Navy if they need to.

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Ninf-410

    Loose translation of the above:

    Country Russia
    Subordination Ministry of Defense
    It is part of the Navy
    Type of military branch
    Function Marine Corps

    Just a side note : The banner above is the new one. The old one had the St Andrews cross as a back drop. The new one does not.


    As far as the Black striped Telnyashka:

    I'm afraid I think you are colour blind and/or you did not pay attention to the evidence I posted that very clearly indicates that the Naval Infantry's Telnyashka is black. To say there is NO Black Telnyashka is complete BS.

    Here is a dark blue on from the Navy:

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Navy-r10

    See if you can see the difference - if not then I'm afraid you're colour blind  Wink

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Ninf-r13
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    So the question remains - why do they sometimes wear Dark Blue?

    Maybe some military bases have extra strong detergent for washing their clothes and the black fades to dark blue...  Smile

    Gary just something about the Telnyashka that you may find interesting - or not Laughing

    A real Telnyashka (you do get fakes) is not like your regular T-shirt where the colour is normally printed on the fabric. It is all woven material which means - unlike a T-shirt the colours on a Telnyashka will never fade.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:24 am

    Wikipedia.ru is usually a better source than the English counterpart - but there are also other sources that basically confirms this:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Береговые_войска_ВМФ_Российской_Федерации

    Direct translation:
    The Coastal Troops of the Navy (BV Navy) are a kind of forces of the Navy of the Russian Federation.
    They were formed in October 1989 on the basis of independent branches of forces that existed in the Navy: Coastal Rocket and Artillery Troops and the Naval Infantry (Marines), as well as the transfer of formations and units from the USSR Land Forces stationed on the coast to the Navy.

    Anyways that will teach me not to ask tough questions! Smile
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:47 pm

    Mir wrote:
    As far as the Black striped Telnyashka:

    I'm afraid I think you are colour blind and/or you did not pay attention to the evidence I posted that very clearly indicates that the Naval Infantry's Telnyashka is black. To say there is NO Black Telnyashka is complete BS.

    Here is a dark blue on from the Navy:

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Navy-r10

    See if you can see the difference - if not then I'm afraid you're colour blind  Wink

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Ninf-r13

    Dude you're the one who's colour blind. They're blue in both cases. Compare the blue stripes on the telnyashka to the black parade uniform.

    That in one case you may have a slightly more washed out blue or slightly darker one can be due to wear, or dying defects during production or whatever. Or it could be due to lighting and the contrast of the rest of the picture relative to the blue stripes.

    Do yourself a favour Mac, just open up the second pic in Photoshop, check the value of the colour of the stripes using the Colour Picker tool, and report back to me
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:03 pm

    Yeah, they are both blue. One just looks a darker blue
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:17 pm

    Dude this argument can carry on forever - so you can believe whatever you want. I think I've offered enough evidence to prove my point.

    Blue and Black together;

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 10478810

    Previously posted;

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Telnya11

    Again as I've posted before a quote from:
    https://army-today.ru/sluzhba/morskaya-pehota

    "The field uniform of the Russian Marine Corps looks almost no different from the standard camouflage used by ordinary motorized rifle units. Nevertheless, you can recognize the modern "sea soldier" by the characteristic black beret, introduced in 1963. Another well-noticeable detail is the traditional vest. It can be distinguished from the same element of clothing of airborne soldiers by the color of the stripes – THEY ARE BLACK."

    And if that is not good enough >> a large picture for closer scrutiny

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 61361010

    BUT please note that I have said before they do wear Blue as well though the Black is regarded as official.

    Lets leave it at that.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am

    Some may find this interesting.

    There is a small museum in Kronstadt dedicated to the Telnyashka. There is also a special Day of the Telnyashka. The Russians do love these vests!

    A bit about the museum >>
    https://pharmateacher.livejournal.com/115163.html?view=311003

    The following Telnyashkas are officially used by the military and other services:

    From left to right > Navy, Emergency Services, Naval Infantry and combat divers, Border Guards, VDV, Spetsnaz and FSB

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Colors10


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    Isos
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    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Empty Anyone knows what this TY-300D target missile is ?

    Post  Isos Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:19 pm

    Anyone knows what this TY-300D target missile is ? Any link about it ? I want to know if it is a supersonic missile. The igla is impressive but the last missile launch seem to be different from the first.


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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:32 am


    Never seen an SA-13 with what looked like one strela missile and two manpads, can some correct me wasn't so clear is was the just the mount for more strela missiles.

    The SA-13 was clearly only expected to fire one missile so only one missile box was fitted... it normally carries four or six boxes with four or six missiles.

    As I mentioned above the South Africans developed a version that could fire SA-9 or SA-13 missiles, but I am not aware of any versions able to fire MANPADS.

    The SA-13 and SA-9 both had electronics boxes on them that could detect the low energy terrain avoiding radar used by low flying high speed aircraft like the F-111 or by missiles like cruise missiles avoiding terrain...

    Such emissions are low power so cannot be detected at long range but good for cueing the system as the threat approaches and is fully passive.

    Anyone knows what this TY-300D target missile is ? Any link about it ? I want to know if it is a supersonic missile. The igla is impressive but the last missile launch seem to be different from the first.

    My first guess would be a ballistic target version of the S-300PM missile...
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:56 am

    Isos wrote:Anyone knows what this TY-300D target missile is ? Any link about it ?

    There doesn't seem to be anything on it in English....if there any Chinese members here they might be able to help
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:39 am

    It was a joint exercise so it was probably a drone target of some sort... I doubt they made up the name... it would be Chinas name for the target.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:41 am

    GarryB wrote:It was a joint exercise so it was probably a drone target of some sort... I doubt they made up the name... it would be Chinas name for the target.

    Actually target drones have official names too.

    They are quite sophisticated.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:03 pm

    Tu300 Korshun you mean?


    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Tu300-6


    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D1%83-300



    Soviet originated UACV, They started to build it on Tu-143 . I guess this one was used as a target drone.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:27 pm

    I doubt. It is a chinese drone.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:40 am

    Of course drones have their own designations, what I am saying is that some drones are dedicated drones specifically designed to be target drones and have only ever been target drones, while some target drones they use are ex aircraft... the M-23 is a MiG-23 fighter with anything valuable removed and replaced with ballast weights like avionics and IRST and radar and fitted for remote control flight and flown into an air defence exercise as a target to be shot down.

    There is quite famous video footage of a Tu-16 being shot down by an Su-25TM using the Skhval-M EO system and Vihhr missiles... that Tu-16 obviously being a target drone aircraft too.

    In addition to custom designed drones.... one of their oldest is this one which has been in use since about the 70s or before, the La-17MM target drone... from the Lavochkin design bureau... and the more common E95 drone... sometimes called Enix I think that is also widely used to simulate aircraft cheaply.

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 I-vgfh10

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 9 Maks2010

    But they also use their air defence forces to defend against all sorts of munitions that are of course normally simulated with old obsolete SAMs, with the SA-1 being made in enormous numbers and plenty of other systems built since.

    The SA-8 is an excellent drone system... it is fully mobile... you can drive it out onto the range to anywhere you like and it can launch up to six supersonic targets that can be controlled by the vehicle to simulate anything you want.

    The seekers and warheads are removed of course and various different corner reflectors can be fitted to them to help them better simulate the target they are trying to represent, but especially command guided missiles are ideal as they can fly any flight profile you want with the launch vehicle controlling them... they have already been paid for and as I said they tended to produce these weapons in enormous numbers.

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