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    Question Thread: Russian Army

    GarryB
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    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:59 am

    The original Kornet was about 5.5km range during daylight and about 3-4km at night due to the performance of the thermal night vision viewer.

    The new model has two missiles... one fitted with an anti armour HEAT warhead with a range of about 8.5km and a one with a thermobaric (HE) warhead with a range of 10km.

    The real question is the performance of the control system and missiles... could the old missiles perform better in the newer launcher... it is certainly unlikely the old launcher could guide the new missiles to their max range, but could the old missiles reach further with better optics and improved guidance system of the newer launcher?
    medo
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    Post  medo Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:23 am

    GarryB wrote:The original Kornet was about 5.5km range during daylight and about 3-4km at night due to the performance of the thermal night vision viewer.

    The new model has two missiles... one fitted with an anti armour HEAT warhead with a range of about 8.5km and a one with a thermobaric (HE) warhead with a range of 10km.

    The real question is the performance of the control system and missiles... could the old missiles perform better in the newer launcher... it is certainly unlikely the old launcher could guide the new missiles to their max range, but could the old missiles reach further with better optics and improved guidance system of the newer launcher?

    The original thermal imager for portable launcher is quite old technology now. New thermal imagers now have far longer range than the old ones and using old Kornet missile on the new launcher on Tigr-M Will enable it to use at max range both day and night. AFAIK new Kornet-D on Tigr-M doesn't have any limitations in night use. Thermal imager in Pantsir also see target at 20 km range. Of course it depend on the size of target and contrast behind it. But there is a good question, if portable Kornet launcher got newer thermal imager or they still receive the old one.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:00 pm

    But the 5.5km range is from kornet E(export), and the 8.5 and 10 km are for kornet EM (also export) i would think the domestic version would have increased range.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:52 am

    I have never seen domestic model ranges for any model Kornet.

    I don't know if they are different or not...

    Note downgraded export models are standard for many makers of weapons, Russia and the Soviet Union included, but since the 2000s most customers that bought Russian stuff bought from the Russian military or joint developed, so they weren't getting the downgraded export models... in fact the UAE got up to date Pantsirs better than anything offered to the Russian military previously... simply because they paid for the better components.

    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:24 am

    GarryB wrote:I have never seen domestic model ranges for any model Kornet.

    I don't know if they are different or not...

    Note downgraded export models are standard for many makers of weapons, Russia and the Soviet Union included, but since the 2000s most customers that bought Russian stuff bought from the Russian military or joint developed, so they weren't getting the downgraded export models... in fact the UAE got up to date Pantsirs better than anything offered to the Russian military previously... simply because they paid for the better components.


    Garry
    About the pantsir Mindstorm had explained years ago, and was the only version that made sense, that UAE didn`t get a version better than Russian army, but just better than the one they will get...
    Kornet is a tricky thing...there is nothing about the domestic version, but if the export version have that range, the domestic has to be better
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:41 am

    About the pantsir Mindstorm had explained years ago, and was the only version that made sense, that UAE didn`t get a version better than Russian army, but just better than the one they will get...

    The Russian military were happy with Pantsir. It was the UAE that demanded and paid for each component to be upgraded to Pantsir-S1 level.

    Kornet is a tricky thing...there is nothing about the domestic version, but if the export version have that range, the domestic has to be better

    Why?

    The Su-30MKI is way better than the Su-30M, which is not that much more than an Su-27UB with minor upgrades.

    The Su-30MKI introduced a lot of new technology... from lots of countries.

    Sometimes the technology was available from Russian sources but the international equipment was better and sometimes the Russian stuff was better but was not for export...

    The development of the Su-30MKI with the Indians actually taught the people at Sukhoi about new ideas and new features for their planes... likely encouraging them to make the Su-35 even better than it would be if they had just sold Su-30s.

    I suspect the only longer ranged Kornet-M would be air launched models.. especially from UAVs where their lack of trailing wires and supersonic speed would be of enormous benefit.

    I understand that they do have export models with reduced performance, but I have never seen an "extended range" domestic model for anti tank guided missiles... I mean Sagger has a range of 3km... the upgraded Malyutka-2 also has a range of 3km... surely considering its age they could release the domestic 4km range model... or whatever its range is...

    The advantage of the Konkurs and faggot was that they had better range and simpler better guidance, but they are given export ranges of 4km and 2.5km respectively.

    Are you suggesting that all these models had longer range domestic models that are still so secret that their new upgrades for export still don't match the domestic models range performance?

    I suspect the ranges were the same and the actual difference was launchers and electronics that were better in the domestic models at the time.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:24 pm

    It they don`t have kornet with greater range why export a missile with 10km range... Why don`t stop just at 5 or 6 km.
    The Russians have domestic missilles that they don`t show for a long time (kh-101)
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:32 pm

    10km is only good against air targets. 5 - 6km is optimal against ground targets. In most enviroments you won´t see any further.
    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:05 pm

    Hole wrote:10km is only good against air targets. 5 - 6km is optimal against ground targets. In most enviroments you won´t see any further.

    Depends on the environment, where you use them. SAA successfully use new Tigr-M based Kornet missiles at 8 to 10 km range against terrorist targets in northern Hama, what was very painful for terrorists as SAA destroy terrorist concentrations behind front line, where they are getting ready for offensive operation.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:41 am

    It they don`t have kornet with greater range why export a missile with 10km range... Why don`t stop just at 5 or 6 km.

    That is a feature of the system and part of the reasons it sells so well...

    Let me ask you why produce two types of the same weapon so that the domestic model is slightly better?

    Do you think if the Ukrainian regime gets a hold of some that the pro Russian Ukrainians will be OK because their missiles reach 1km further and penetrate 10cm more armour?

    Whether it reaches 8.5km or 10km or 12km it is a very capable and dangerous system and they are fairly careful as to whom they sell to.

    But at the end of the day you can't stop enemy forces getting something that will be dangerous against you.

    Rather than a range issue I would expect the domestic Kornet to have a better IR system with better algorithms for more precise inflight control of the missile to the target... it would make them more useful in actually finding targets in the first place and getting hits on target.

    The Russians have domestic missilles that they don`t show for a long time (kh-101)

    Quite true but in the case of cruise missiles there are international agreements that limit the range and warhead weight of exported missiles... hense Yakhont/Brahmos don't have the range of Onyx despite being based on its design.

    10km is only good against air targets. 5 - 6km is optimal against ground targets. In most enviroments you won´t see any further.

    There would be a lot of exceptions of course but clever use of terrain could allow positioning on a hillside that overlooks a long valley the enemy might need to drive down where targets can be engaged at extended range. Indeed the whole point of long range ATGMs is to use them where there range is useful.

    If it is in an urban area where you can't see more than 500m then RPG-29 makes more sense, or in the case of 2km visibility limits then the lighter cheaper more mobile Metis-M1 makes more sense.

    The-thing-next-door
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    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Would it be possible for me to buy a typhoon to use and if so where to get it?

    Post  The-thing-next-door Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:39 am

    Would it be possible for me to buy a typhoon to use and if so where to get it?
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:50 pm

    Write to Sergej Schoigu, Russian MoD, Moscow. Very Happy
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 am

    There is probably a civilian version, that likely wont be armoured, but could be fun.

    Don't expect it to be cheap...
    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:47 am

    Wait why no armor?

    You can quite easily but an old T-72 in Russia provided the PKT and NSVT are removed.

    Wihout the armor to weigh it down it will simply be no good at flattening other peoples cars.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:51 am

    Armour would likely make it much more expensive, and heavier, which means more expensive to use as well... and for what... so you can take it anywhere in the US and not worry about gang turf wars or crossfire...

    A BTR-80 would be mostly bullet proof... not that anything actually could be...

    Most trucks will flatten modern cars... new cars have crumple zones and light aluminium shells...
    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:16 am

    I just don't see the BTR-80 being road legal although it being amphibious has got to be a blast.

    Also why on earth would I care about costs remember I am thinking of this instead of a ferrari not as a toyota substitute.

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    KeMac

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    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Terminology of ranks post Communist

    Post  KeMac Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:55 pm

    Could someone tell me how one rank addresses another superior rank now in the Russian Army? I take it that it is just the straightforward use of the rank itself and not like in Soviet times where "Comrade" would be put before the rank?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:40 am

    Hi Kemac, it is a forum rule that members introduce themselves in the members introductions and rules section.

    Please take the time to read the rules and post your own introduction thread in the introductions section. Very Happy
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    Post  KeMac Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:04 am

    GarryB wrote:Hi Kemac, it is a forum rule that members introduce themselves in the members introductions and rules section.

    Please take the time to read the rules and post your own introduction thread in the introductions section. Very Happy

    Sorry. I had been a member for a long time of an older forum which I assumed was this one transferred over. I will do it now
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:29 am

    KeMac wrote:Could someone tell me how one rank addresses another superior rank now in the Russian Army? I take it that it is just the straightforward use of the rank itself and not like in Soviet times where "Comrade" would be put before the rank?

    Comrade + Rank

    Same as in the Soviet Army

    But if someone of a higher rank addresses you they can skip the comrade part

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    KeMac

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    Post  KeMac Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:32 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    KeMac wrote:Could someone tell me how one rank addresses another superior rank now in the Russian Army? I take it that it is just the straightforward use of the rank itself and not like in Soviet times where "Comrade" would be put before the rank?

    Comrade + Rank

    Same as in the Soviet Army

    But if someone of a higher rank addresses you they can skip the comrade part

    Thank you flamming_python
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:50 pm

    Does anybody know why the Naval Infantry wear either the navy blue Telnyashka or the black Telnyashka?



    The black Telnyashka seems to be the "official" colour from what I can gather, but I've seen many pictures of them also wearing the dark blue ones.

    I do know that the Naval Infantry is unique in that it is a fully independent branch BUT it is also subordinate to the Navy at the same time.

    Would it perhaps be that during Naval parades/operations where the Naval Infantry also participate, that they are obliged to wear the Navy colours?

    I've seen that on the rare occasion that tankers also wear black Telnyashkas but I'm sure that's not official dress.

    It is also believed that Soviet/Russian submariners wear black Telnyashkas but I have never seen any evidence of that - however - there was instances - so I've read - where they've used the wrong pigment which made the Naval Telnyashkas appear to be black in colour.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:52 pm

    Mir wrote:Does anybody know why the Naval Infantry wear either the navy blue Telnyashka or the black Telnyashka?



    The black Telnyashka seems to be the "official" colour from what I can gather, but I've seen many pictures of them also wearing the dark blue ones.

    I do know that the Naval Infantry is unique in that it is a fully independent branch BUT it is also subordinate to the Navy at the same time.

    Would it perhaps be that during Naval parades/operations where the Naval Infantry also participate, that they are obliged to wear the Navy colours?

    I've seen that on the rare occasion that tankers also wear black Telnyashkas but I'm sure that's not official dress.

    It is also believed that Soviet/Russian submariners wear black Telnyashkas but I have never seen any evidence of that - however - there was instances - so I've read - where they've used the wrong pigment which made the Naval Telnyashkas appear to be black in colour.

    i think Naval Infantry wear the black and the Navy the dark blue
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:01 pm

    George1 wrote:
    i think Naval Infantry wear the black and the Navy the dark blue

    True but I have seen photos of the NINF wearing black and blue.

    Black

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Ninf-r10

    Blue

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Ninf-r11

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:20 am

    All the Navy wears dark blue telnyashkas

    And the Naval Infantry are of course part of the Navy

    Mir wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    i think Naval Infantry wear the black and the Navy the dark blue

    True but I have seen photos of the NINF wearing black and blue.

    Black

    Blue


    No, they are the same colour - dark blue

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