Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+72
11E
lancelot
andalusia
Gazputin
limb
lyle6
marcellogo
Giulio
GunshipDemocracy
Cyberspec
Isos
Mir
KeMac
kvs
The-thing-next-door
Hole
dino00
RusMil
miketheterrible
David27mc
JMCR
sjosiowicz
amcm923
Sanctus Ferri
Arctic_Fox
franco
Zhongqing
russianrisk
atiboss
Cplnew83
magnumcromagnon
Regular
ult
par far
Captain Nemo
Walther von Oldenburg
Stiangul
higurashihougi
r111
zg18
Anas Ali
Werewolf
Zivo
Rpg type 7v
collegeboy16
SSDD
Stealthflanker
ricky123
TR1
KomissarBojanchev
Mr.Kalishnikov47
ahmedfire
flamming_python
George1
ehtesham
AlexanderGiorev
njb1
Austin
IronsightSniper
Viktor
medo
GarryB
nightcrawler
Russian Patriot
Farhad Gulemov
fabyak47
milky_candy_sugar
DrofEvil
sepheronx
Sukhoi37_Terminator
Admin
10misha10
76 posters

    Question Thread: Russian Army

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34302
    Points : 34820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:59 am

    The original Kornet was about 5.5km range during daylight and about 3-4km at night due to the performance of the thermal night vision viewer.

    The new model has two missiles... one fitted with an anti armour HEAT warhead with a range of about 8.5km and a one with a thermobaric (HE) warhead with a range of 10km.

    The real question is the performance of the control system and missiles... could the old missiles perform better in the newer launcher... it is certainly unlikely the old launcher could guide the new missiles to their max range, but could the old missiles reach further with better optics and improved guidance system of the newer launcher?
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4366
    Points : 4448
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  medo Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:23 am

    GarryB wrote:The original Kornet was about 5.5km range during daylight and about 3-4km at night due to the performance of the thermal night vision viewer.

    The new model has two missiles... one fitted with an anti armour HEAT warhead with a range of about 8.5km and a one with a thermobaric (HE) warhead with a range of 10km.

    The real question is the performance of the control system and missiles... could the old missiles perform better in the newer launcher... it is certainly unlikely the old launcher could guide the new missiles to their max range, but could the old missiles reach further with better optics and improved guidance system of the newer launcher?

    The original thermal imager for portable launcher is quite old technology now. New thermal imagers now have far longer range than the old ones and using old Kornet missile on the new launcher on Tigr-M Will enable it to use at max range both day and night. AFAIK new Kornet-D on Tigr-M doesn't have any limitations in night use. Thermal imager in Pantsir also see target at 20 km range. Of course it depend on the size of target and contrast behind it. But there is a good question, if portable Kornet launcher got newer thermal imager or they still receive the old one.
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  dino00 Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:00 pm

    But the 5.5km range is from kornet E(export), and the 8.5 and 10 km are for kornet EM (also export) i would think the domestic version would have increased range.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34302
    Points : 34820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:52 am

    I have never seen domestic model ranges for any model Kornet.

    I don't know if they are different or not...

    Note downgraded export models are standard for many makers of weapons, Russia and the Soviet Union included, but since the 2000s most customers that bought Russian stuff bought from the Russian military or joint developed, so they weren't getting the downgraded export models... in fact the UAE got up to date Pantsirs better than anything offered to the Russian military previously... simply because they paid for the better components.

    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  dino00 Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:24 am

    GarryB wrote:I have never seen domestic model ranges for any model Kornet.

    I don't know if they are different or not...

    Note downgraded export models are standard for many makers of weapons, Russia and the Soviet Union included, but since the 2000s most customers that bought Russian stuff bought from the Russian military or joint developed, so they weren't getting the downgraded export models... in fact the UAE got up to date Pantsirs better than anything offered to the Russian military previously... simply because they paid for the better components.


    Garry
    About the pantsir Mindstorm had explained years ago, and was the only version that made sense, that UAE didn`t get a version better than Russian army, but just better than the one they will get...
    Kornet is a tricky thing...there is nothing about the domestic version, but if the export version have that range, the domestic has to be better
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34302
    Points : 34820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:41 am

    About the pantsir Mindstorm had explained years ago, and was the only version that made sense, that UAE didn`t get a version better than Russian army, but just better than the one they will get...

    The Russian military were happy with Pantsir. It was the UAE that demanded and paid for each component to be upgraded to Pantsir-S1 level.

    Kornet is a tricky thing...there is nothing about the domestic version, but if the export version have that range, the domestic has to be better

    Why?

    The Su-30MKI is way better than the Su-30M, which is not that much more than an Su-27UB with minor upgrades.

    The Su-30MKI introduced a lot of new technology... from lots of countries.

    Sometimes the technology was available from Russian sources but the international equipment was better and sometimes the Russian stuff was better but was not for export...

    The development of the Su-30MKI with the Indians actually taught the people at Sukhoi about new ideas and new features for their planes... likely encouraging them to make the Su-35 even better than it would be if they had just sold Su-30s.

    I suspect the only longer ranged Kornet-M would be air launched models.. especially from UAVs where their lack of trailing wires and supersonic speed would be of enormous benefit.

    I understand that they do have export models with reduced performance, but I have never seen an "extended range" domestic model for anti tank guided missiles... I mean Sagger has a range of 3km... the upgraded Malyutka-2 also has a range of 3km... surely considering its age they could release the domestic 4km range model... or whatever its range is...

    The advantage of the Konkurs and faggot was that they had better range and simpler better guidance, but they are given export ranges of 4km and 2.5km respectively.

    Are you suggesting that all these models had longer range domestic models that are still so secret that their new upgrades for export still don't match the domestic models range performance?

    I suspect the ranges were the same and the actual difference was launchers and electronics that were better in the domestic models at the time.
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  dino00 Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:24 pm

    It they don`t have kornet with greater range why export a missile with 10km range... Why don`t stop just at 5 or 6 km.
    The Russians have domestic missilles that they don`t show for a long time (kh-101)
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 7393
    Points : 7381
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  Hole Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:32 pm

    10km is only good against air targets. 5 - 6km is optimal against ground targets. In most enviroments you won´t see any further.
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4366
    Points : 4448
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  medo Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:05 pm

    Hole wrote:10km is only good against air targets. 5 - 6km is optimal against ground targets. In most enviroments you won´t see any further.

    Depends on the environment, where you use them. SAA successfully use new Tigr-M based Kornet missiles at 8 to 10 km range against terrorist targets in northern Hama, what was very painful for terrorists as SAA destroy terrorist concentrations behind front line, where they are getting ready for offensive operation.

    GarryB likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34302
    Points : 34820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:41 am

    It they don`t have kornet with greater range why export a missile with 10km range... Why don`t stop just at 5 or 6 km.

    That is a feature of the system and part of the reasons it sells so well...

    Let me ask you why produce two types of the same weapon so that the domestic model is slightly better?

    Do you think if the Ukrainian regime gets a hold of some that the pro Russian Ukrainians will be OK because their missiles reach 1km further and penetrate 10cm more armour?

    Whether it reaches 8.5km or 10km or 12km it is a very capable and dangerous system and they are fairly careful as to whom they sell to.

    But at the end of the day you can't stop enemy forces getting something that will be dangerous against you.

    Rather than a range issue I would expect the domestic Kornet to have a better IR system with better algorithms for more precise inflight control of the missile to the target... it would make them more useful in actually finding targets in the first place and getting hits on target.

    The Russians have domestic missilles that they don`t show for a long time (kh-101)

    Quite true but in the case of cruise missiles there are international agreements that limit the range and warhead weight of exported missiles... hense Yakhont/Brahmos don't have the range of Onyx despite being based on its design.

    10km is only good against air targets. 5 - 6km is optimal against ground targets. In most enviroments you won´t see any further.

    There would be a lot of exceptions of course but clever use of terrain could allow positioning on a hillside that overlooks a long valley the enemy might need to drive down where targets can be engaged at extended range. Indeed the whole point of long range ATGMs is to use them where there range is useful.

    If it is in an urban area where you can't see more than 500m then RPG-29 makes more sense, or in the case of 2km visibility limits then the lighter cheaper more mobile Metis-M1 makes more sense.

    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door


    Posts : 1063
    Points : 1115
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Uranus

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Would it be possible for me to buy a typhoon to use and if so where to get it?

    Post  The-thing-next-door Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:39 am

    Would it be possible for me to buy a typhoon to use and if so where to get it?
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 7393
    Points : 7381
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  Hole Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:50 pm

    Write to Sergej Schoigu, Russian MoD, Moscow. Very Happy
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34302
    Points : 34820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 am

    There is probably a civilian version, that likely wont be armoured, but could be fun.

    Don't expect it to be cheap...
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door


    Posts : 1063
    Points : 1115
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Uranus

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  The-thing-next-door Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:47 am

    Wait why no armor?

    You can quite easily but an old T-72 in Russia provided the PKT and NSVT are removed.

    Wihout the armor to weigh it down it will simply be no good at flattening other peoples cars.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34302
    Points : 34820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:51 am

    Armour would likely make it much more expensive, and heavier, which means more expensive to use as well... and for what... so you can take it anywhere in the US and not worry about gang turf wars or crossfire...

    A BTR-80 would be mostly bullet proof... not that anything actually could be...

    Most trucks will flatten modern cars... new cars have crumple zones and light aluminium shells...
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door


    Posts : 1063
    Points : 1115
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Uranus

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:16 am

    I just don't see the BTR-80 being road legal although it being amphibious has got to be a blast.

    Also why on earth would I care about costs remember I am thinking of this instead of a ferrari not as a toyota substitute.

    GarryB likes this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 7393
    Points : 7381
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Your wishlist for the Victory Day Parade 2020

    Post  Hole Fri May 10, 2019 9:55 pm

    Now that this years parade is set and done, without surprises, I should add (which is fine for a "normal" year), we can turn our focus to the coming year. In 2020 Russia will celebrate the 75th anniversary of her victory in the Great Patriotic War. The parade will definitly be big. I´m curious which weapons some of you may wish to see next year - tanks, missiles, aircraft, drones...
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  dino00 Fri May 10, 2019 10:57 pm

    ... Lotus for VDV will be there...
    T-15 with 57mm gun
    BMPT also with 57mm
    For now it's all
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 17774
    Points : 18279
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  George1 Sat May 11, 2019 12:22 am

    S-500 Twisted Evil
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  dino00 Sat May 11, 2019 12:32 am

    Buk M3
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34302
    Points : 34820
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Sat May 11, 2019 7:22 am

    I would expect they will go all out to impress for the 75th aniversary... so:

    S-500
    BUK-M3
    S-350
    Armata tank and BMP models (ie 125mm gun and 57mm gun armed models)
    Kurganets tank and BMP model (ie 125mm gun and 57mm gun armed models)
    Boomerang tank and BMP models (ie 125mm gun and 57mm gun armed models)
    The new SOSNA-R system.
    Maybe a Zircon missile example on a truck and perhaps also the nuclear powered cruise missile on a truck too and the laser truck system...
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 7393
    Points : 7381
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  Hole Sat May 11, 2019 10:13 am

    Get out of my mind, GarryB! Very Happy

    Some ECM systems would be great. I know, the tob brass think they are not cool enough, but... They are!

    In the air:

    A-100
    Tu-214R (not new, but was never part of the flypast)

    Some drones (flying, not on trucks).
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 13373
    Points : 13518
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Kanada

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  kvs Sat May 11, 2019 2:36 pm

    Some new IRBM and coastal missile system like Bal.
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  dino00 Sat May 11, 2019 3:36 pm

    This isn't the last Victory Parade Very Happy

    ...Easy....S-500 probably on the 80 anniversary. russia
    avatar
    KeMac


    Posts : 8
    Points : 16
    Join date : 2014-04-12
    Location : uk

    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Terminology of ranks post Communist

    Post  KeMac Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:55 pm

    Could someone tell me how one rank addresses another superior rank now in the Russian Army? I take it that it is just the straightforward use of the rank itself and not like in Soviet times where "Comrade" would be put before the rank?

    Sponsored content


    Question Thread: Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: Question Thread: Russian Army

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:06 am