You see, that saying about idiots really does apply to them more than to anyone else I know - they first bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience
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flamming_python wrote:Kommisar I noticed that you talk about fanboi's 24/7. Well I can sure appreciate that coz in places like youtube or mp.net there are a lot of them. But if you take a look around this forum - you won't find any. And this is because this is a place for serious/literate people, many of whom you'll find have extensive knowledge of various domains of Russian and foreign weaponry and can write you a book on the subject. So you can relax, you are in good hands. And as for the fanboi's - just let it go; it's not really worth wasting your time in conversation with them in any case.
You see, that saying about idiots really does apply to them more than to anyone else I know - they first bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience
Sujoy wrote:This below video shows how ordinary IED's have destroyed Abram Tanks in Iraq.
BTW - If you are in the US or UK this video is probably blocked
Hmm, I see now why MRM-KE, X-rod et al. were canceled. Not to spoil the post but faster rounds do worse when it comes Russian dynamic protection. So if this trend continues, the Russians would just have to opt for faster and larger rods, which are just perfect for countering nato armor.Viktor wrote:Very interesting article about debates raging over internet over Russian/western tanks comparison from
site "Gur Khan attacks!"
GUR KHAN!
I dont find Translation helpful , Can some one sumarries the key point Gur Khan is trying to put ?
So M829A1 and M829A2 are not effective against K-5 ERA even in favourable firing angle for APFSDS , BTW are these for export model ERA K5 or Russian ones ? I believe the Russians K-5 ERA has better potential
So the answer to this as Yanks found when both APFSDS was not effective is to develop a longer M829A3 APFSDS but considering its higher L:D ratio of M829A3 wonder if it ricoches.
So all both the APFSDS that failed are the Tungsten or DU types ?
According to official, Armata will be essentially the same in configuration (crew placement, unmanned turret), ballistic protection, powerplant (engine, transmission...), that is directly from Ob 195. FCS requirement is not the original, but it will come from previous successess and newer developements, in fact in some aspects it will be better, (for example now there are more advanced thermal matrixes of 3rd generation level), and it is soon to say.
In firepower it will also be the same idea, vertical autoloader within hull and new gun system with bigger chamber volume and improved ballistics, new APFSDS are of lenght of a metre (penetrator), heavier but retain highest optimal velocity, even if gun will retain 125mm caliber, which is likely, it would have nothing to do with current system, of course future is not known, same as wheter if all guided projectiles developed under ob 195 will be realised (and there were plenty of interesting programmes).
Nice, Freud would love it. However, only Armata MBTs and towed 125mm guns could utilize such ammo.Austin wrote:From Lidsky M.D @ link
In firepower it will also be the same idea, vertical autoloader within hull and new gun system with bigger chamber volume and improved ballistics, new APFSDS are of lenght of a metre (penetrator), heavier but retain highest optimal velocity, even if gun will retain 125mm caliber, which is likely, it would have nothing to do with current system, of course future is not known, same as wheter if all guided projectiles developed under ob 195 will be realised (and there were plenty of interesting programmes).
His use of parenthesis is confusing me. Is he saying the dart is one meter, or is the entire round is one meter?
If the dart alone is one meter, that would be the most powerful round in service.
I think one of the disavantage of using 125 mm gun over 152 mm Gun is the Antitank warhead from tube launch missile can give a max of 800-900 RHA not good for any frontal turret penetration of modern western tanks
With 152 mm Gen you can get Kornet size 1200-1300 RHA penetration and longer range.
It seems like in future with all sides of turret getting all round good protection from ERA even on western tanks the role of Gun Lunched Missile against tanks would be doubtful in future
RTN wrote:Main Battle Tanks are basically a useless investment .
They cost a Ton and millions have to be spend on their MRO .
Yet , they are not effective .
All that you need to do is to aim for the Main Gun with a Kornet or RPG 30 and the Tank will go kaput .
This has been proved in both Iraq and Syria .
Werewolf wrote:And how easy is it to aim, undetected , from the front at combat relevant distance, a range that is close enough to have a high hit probability to hit the gun and still far enough away that gives you at least some chance to stay undetected at least until you fired your shot?
Werewolf wrote:If you already gonna shoot with a Kornet than it does not matter if you aim for Gun itself or anywhere else, the chance to destroy the tank is rather high regardless where it hits, turret,hull or a weakened zone.
Mindstorm wrote: destroy scarcely manoeuvrable/limited speed PGMs at enormous ranges of engagements [/b]
funny, but i think with the amount of explosives HEAT missiles/rokets are packing nowadays next gen APS designers would want the intercept to happen much farther from the tank.RTN wrote:
All that you need to do is to aim for the Main Gun with a Kornet or RPG 30 and the Tank will go kaput .
but can they dodge incoming 57mm airbursters.RTN wrote:
GPS/INS and electro-optical guidance PGMs like the High Performance Penetrator (HOPE) and High Performance Explosive Bomb (HOSBO) are highly maneuverable . They can hit basically any moving target .
RTN wrote:
Why do you need to aim from the front ? In both Iraq & Syria the main gun has been targeted with RPGs from distance of 50m to 100m .
If shooting the tracks of an MBT can bring it to a halt why can't RPGs do the same to the Main Gun ?
RTN wrote:
Kornet cannot hit the turret unless of course you have placed yourself at an elevated position . The cage armor will protect the tank from Kornet or RPGs.
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