Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+68
JohninMK
galicije83
Scorpius
mnztr
Azi
caveat emptor
Arkanghelsk
Ned86
diabetus
Stealthflanker
Podlodka77
AZ-5
marcellogo
The-thing-next-door
ALAMO
Rasisuki Nebia
Broski
Mir
Russian_Patriot_
The_Observer
Cheetah
lancelot
lyle6
x_54_u43
DerWolf
Isos
nero
calripson
ult
0nillie0
bolshevik345
dino00
Hole
LMFS
d_taddei2
sheytanelkebir
medo
BAC080777
AttilaA
Book.
franco
PapaDragon
Zivo
GunshipDemocracy
sepheronx
Werewolf
TheArmenian
OminousSpudd
mutantsushi
victor1985
Regular
magnumcromagnon
higurashihougi
KomissarBojanchev
KoTeMoRe
cracker
Morpheus Eberhardt
George1
Viktor
flamming_python
AlfaT8
Vympel
Mindstorm
AJ-47
Austin
Cyberspec
TR1
GarryB
72 posters

    BMP-3 in Russian Army

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:17 am

    It wouldn't really work.

    Two main problems... first of all the fitting of the 100mm rifled medium gun in a slightly offset centre position led to problems with cracking because recoil was not centred so were concentrated in places it should not have been.

    To add a 45mm or 57mm gun would be much worse as these would be much more powerful guns with much more recoil.

    the second problem of course is that the 40 rounds the BMP-3M carries of 100mm HE shells occupies most of the lower turret area so if you are keeping the 100mm gun there would be no room for 45mm rounds or 57mm rounds for that matter... 220 of which would actually take up more internal space than the 40 x 100mm rounds which are actually smaller.

    In any case the 45mm and 57mm would be a good replacement for both the 30mm cannons and 100mm cannons. while they don't have the enormous rate of fire of the 30mm gun the guided shells means the kill probability is much higher with aimed single shots, and while each shot is not as powerful as a 100mm shell the high hit probability means fewer shots will result in more effective damage because you will be hitting what you are aiming for.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18268
    Points : 18765
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  George1 Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:20 am

    At the opening September 9, 2015 in Nizhny Tagil, Russia Arms Expo 2015 (RAE-2015), OAO "Kurgan Machine-Building Plant" will demonstrate two new versions of the BMP-3, referred to as "Dragoon" and "Derivation".

    "Derivation": BMP-3 with 57-mm automatic cannon (apparently, the A-220M).
    "Dragoon": Reconstruction of BMP-3's to locate the engine compartment at the front and with the installation of remote-controlled weapon stations, preserving the main armament of the BMP-3, 100mm gun 2A70, and coupled with her 30mm automatic cannon 2A72.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1466877.html
    Book.
    Book.


    Posts : 692
    Points : 745
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:10 am

    George1 wrote:At the opening September 9, 2015 in Nizhny Tagil, Russia Arms Expo 2015 (RAE-2015), OAO "Kurgan Machine-Building Plant" will demonstrate two new versions of the BMP-3, referred to as "Dragoon" and "Derivation".

    "Derivation": BMP-3 with 57-mm automatic cannon (apparently, the A-220M).
    "Dragoon": Reconstruction of BMP-3's to locate the engine compartment at the front and with the installation of remote-controlled weapon stations, preserving the main armament of the BMP-3, 100mm gun 2A70, and coupled with her 30mm automatic cannon 2A72.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1466877.html

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21TML

    New 30/100 turret!  Surprised
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:15 am

    Book. wrote:
    George1 wrote:At the opening September 9, 2015 in Nizhny Tagil, Russia Arms Expo 2015 (RAE-2015), OAO "Kurgan Machine-Building Plant" will demonstrate two new versions of the BMP-3, referred to as "Dragoon" and "Derivation".

    "Derivation": BMP-3 with 57-mm automatic cannon (apparently, the A-220M).
    "Dragoon": Reconstruction of BMP-3's to locate the engine compartment at the front and with the installation of remote-controlled weapon stations, preserving the main armament of the BMP-3, 100mm gun 2A70, and coupled with her 30mm automatic cannon 2A72.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1466877.html

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21TML

    New 30/100 turret!  Surprised

    New front bolt-on protection....Da, Da, Da!
    Book.
    Book.


    Posts : 692
    Points : 745
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:36 am

    Yup. the front engine!

    to protect thumbsup
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18268
    Points : 18765
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  George1 Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:33 pm

    Russia develops world’s most maneuverable infantry combat vehicle

    Unlike the majority of foreign infantry combat vehicles, the Dragun has retained its floatability and capacity to cross rivers


    NIZHNY TAGIL, September 10. /TASS-DEFENSE/. An advanced version of the Russian infantry combat vehicle BMP-3, designated as Dragun, has become the most maneuverable in the world. This conclusion was made on the basis of the Dragun’s tactical characteristics released for the first time at the Russia Arms Expo-2015 international exhibition.

    The advanced infantry combat vehicle was fitted out with the UDT-32T diesel engine with bench power of 816 hp. As a result, the Dragun’s power-weight ratio reaches 38 hp/ton.

    The power-weight ratio of the US M2A3 Bradley IFV equals 19.74 hp/ton, the German Puma 25.5-34.59 hp/ton, the French VBCI 18.6 hp/ton and the British FV510 Warrior 23.5 hp/ton.

    Unlike the majority of foreign infantry combat vehicles, the Dragun has retained its floatability and capacity to cross rivers.

    This version of the BMP-3 is also equipped with a prototype of a remote-controlled combat module with cannon armament.
    higurashihougi
    higurashihougi


    Posts : 3011
    Points : 3098
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  higurashihougi Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:42 pm

    TASS wrote:Unlike the majority of foreign infantry combat vehicles, the Dragun has retained its floatability and capacity to cross rivers

    What should I say, most of Western IFV dunno how to swim Cool Cool
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:30 pm

    Looks like GarryB, and myself were wrong. We thought that the front-engined BMP-3 configuration would lead to sacrificing the ability to float and cross rivers, thankfully I'm glad to be wrong on this issue. Smile
    Regular
    Regular


    Posts : 3868
    Points : 3842
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Ukrolovestan

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Regular Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:07 pm

    Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces
    avatar
    victor1985


    Posts : 632
    Points : 659
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  victor1985 Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:11 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]It wouldn't really work.

    Two main problems... first of all the fitting of the 100mm rifled medium gun in a slightly offset centre position led to problems with cracking because recoil was not centred so were concentrated in places it should not have been.

    To add a 45mm or 57mm gun would be much worse as these would be much more powerful guns with much more recoil.

    the second problem of course is that the 40 rounds the BMP-3M carries of 100mm HE shells occupies most of the lower turret area so if you are keeping the 100mm gun there would be no room for 45mm rounds or 57mm rounds for that matter... 220 of which would actually take up more internal space than the 40 x 100mm rounds which are actually smaller.

    In any case the 45mm and 57mm would be a good replacement for both the 30mm cannons and 100mm cannons. while they don't have the enormous rate of fire of the 30mm gun the guided shells means the kill probability is much higher with aimed single shots, and while each shot is not as powerful as a 100mm shell the high hit probability means fewer shots will result in more effective damage because you will be hitting what you are aiming for.[/quote]
    can be put two guns on top of each other while manevrate each separate?
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:13 pm

    Regular wrote:Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces

    Almost certainly slated for export, unless they order more BMP-3's which to me would be a mistake when you have Kurganets-25 around the corner.
    Regular
    Regular


    Posts : 3868
    Points : 3842
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Ukrolovestan

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Regular Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:18 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Regular wrote:Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces

    Almost certainly slated for export, unless they order more BMP-3's which to me would be a mistake when you have Kurganets-25 around the corner.
    Wasn't long ago when they ordered some of them
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/794151
    Book.
    Book.


    Posts : 692
    Points : 745
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:26 pm

    БМП-3М Драгун окончательный дисплей
    BMP-3 Dragoon the Pic Layout. New 800HP!

    09.11.2015 01:20:48

    [Image From: vestnik-rm.ru]

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpt

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpp

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wqi

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wqj

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wqk

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpr

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpq

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wps

    I luv the 30/100

    New door + 800HP!
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:32 pm

    Regular wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Regular wrote:Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces

    Almost certainly slated for export, unless they order more BMP-3's which to me would be a mistake when you have Kurganets-25 around the corner.
    Wasn't long ago when they ordered some of them
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/794151

    Who knows if they want a front-engined BMP-3, they may as well get a Kurganets-25.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18268
    Points : 18765
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  George1 Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:39 pm

    so the new BMP-3s that Russian Army ordered will be this model??
    avatar
    mutantsushi


    Posts : 283
    Points : 305
    Join date : 2013-12-11

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  mutantsushi Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:37 pm

    I was also curious about the most recent BMP-3 order, if they are going for the new engine layout +/+ unmanned turret, or keeping fleet commonality...?
    It's clearly a stop gap until Kurganets IFV is fully ready (for which 30mm Epoch seems to be produced first, before a heavier 57mm and/or 100+30mm model)
    OminousSpudd
    OminousSpudd


    Posts : 942
    Points : 947
    Join date : 2015-01-03
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  OminousSpudd Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:58 pm

    The sheer plethora of different armour coming out of Russia at the moment is really putting everyone else to shame. Cool

    Da for innovation.
    Book.
    Book.


    Posts : 692
    Points : 745
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:57 pm

    mutantsushi wrote:I was also curious about the most recent BMP-3 order, if they are going for the new engine layout +/+ unmanned turret, or keeping fleet commonality...?

    It's clearly a stop gap until Kurganets IFV is fully ready (for which 30mm Epoch seems to be produced first, before a heavier 57mm and/or 100+30mm model)

    No sure but I read the note.
    Mod order 200-300 BMP 3

    Dragoon shame the US Nato lol1

    K25 even better! russia

    @Papadragon post 916
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t4033p915-russian-military-photos-and-videos

    More pic here

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 OnGBM

    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  KoTeMoRe Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:52 am

    Book. wrote:БМП-3М Драгун окончательный дисплей
    BMP-3 Dragoon the Pic Layout. New 800HP!

    09.11.2015 01:20:48

    [Image From: vestnik-rm.ru]

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpt

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpp

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wqi

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wqj

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wqk

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpr

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpq

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wps

    I luv the 30/100

    New door + 800HP!

    Rear doors show crazy armour for structural weight. Russians, witchcraft isn't allowed.
    TheArmenian
    TheArmenian


    Posts : 1880
    Points : 2025
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  TheArmenian Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:57 am

    Book. wrote:
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpt

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpp


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 21Wpq


    What are the 2 extensions at the back on both sides of the doors?
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  KoTeMoRe Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:02 pm

    Possibly Aircon and Comms with Crew. Serves also as protection for desants.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38765
    Points : 39261
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:08 pm

    The extensions are probably to prevent enemies shooting into the rear of the vehicle from a wide range of angles when the rear doors are open.

    I suspect this new design of the BMP-3M would be a bit like Pantsir-S1 where foreign money has perfected a system beyond what Russian Army money would have been spent to create, but that the fruits of their labour will eventually benefit the Russian military and the international export market.

    This version will no doubt be modular and allow export well before the Kurganets or Boomerang or Armata or Typhoon vehicles are ready for export.

    The three crew positions likely share some commonality with the systems mounted in the new vehicle families saving costs with larger production runs.
    Book.
    Book.


    Posts : 692
    Points : 745
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:58 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:What are the 2 extensions at the back on both sides of the doors?

    I think fuel tank
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:55 pm

    Book. wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:What are the 2 extensions at the back on both sides of the doors?

    I think fuel tank

    Would make sense, AFAIK the fuel tank was part of the door in the BMP-1/2 series at least (not sure about BMP-3), so they would probably have the fuel somewhere nearby in that region one way or the other.
    Werewolf
    Werewolf


    Posts : 5913
    Points : 6102
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Werewolf Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:57 pm

    Those two rear bulks could also fit smoke screen APS system similiar like on Kurgnets, T-14 and T-15 to camoflauge vehicle from top attack weapons of IR/IIR spectrum. Not exclusive for that system but i think it could be accomodated in there nicely and compact.

    Sponsored content


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 3 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:20 pm