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    Russian Military Photos and Videos #3

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:11 pm


    I have come among you to put an end to pointless argument over petty semantics.

    I shall do so by posting pretty pictures of Admiral Grigorevich frigate's first day on the job. russia

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    par far

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    Post  par far on Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:38 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    par far wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    par far wrote:

    Whenever I see pictures of the Russian military training, they are most of the time using the SVD Sniper, why don't they use the Orsis or Lobavev or other sniper rifles?

    Because those are not frontline sniper rifles. They cost like dozen SVDs, and are overkill for what squad dedicated marksman would use it for. Small amount of those were seen in hands of MVD and FSB but thats all, they are more sporting rifles than for military use.


    Hi there Militarov, by saying this, you are saying that the Russian Armed Forces are cheap(which they are not) and that Russia cannot make long range snipers for the military, just sporting rifles.

    You are basically saying that the west is better than Russia, when it comes to making long range sniper rifles(which I don't think is true).

    I stay completely behind this statement of mine. SVD is fine squad dedicated marksman rifle, one of its qualities is fact its cheap. Infantry squad dedicated marksman rifles are in majority of the armies simply heavy barrel guns based on assault or battle rifles.

    Some examples:

    Germany - HK417/MR308 A3 and G3SG/1 (latter one is becoming rare)
    USA - SDM-R and M21/M25
    Serbia - M76 and M91
    China - QBU-88 and Type 79 (Basically SVD but getting phased out)
    Japan - Howa Type 64
    UK - L129A1
    Turkey - MSG90 and SR-25 (some SVDs too)

    Some countries like Canada and France prefer to issue on squad lvl bolt action sniper rifles but is in my opinion huge waste of money especially on sizeable armies, even worse if conscript based.

    Also Lobaev rifles will never enter military service, at least not existing models, thes are single shot, custom-built bolt-action sniper rifles for fun, target practice and enthousiasts, they have no place in mud. Some were as i said above seen in hands of FSB/MVD units but i doubt more than few dozen were ever obtained.

    Long range anti-material rifles that Russians do actually use are SVN-98, KSVK and OSV-96.

    I agree with on the SVD, it is a fine weapon but I think Russia needs to get a caliber like 338 lapua into the hands of the regular army(Orsis T 5000 or the newer version of the Orsis T 5000). The SVD can be a mid range rifle, 338 lapua the long range and SVN-98, KSVK and OSV-96 can be Long range anti-material rifles.

    Here are the Lobaev Snipers, I think they can be fine sniper rifles(the army just has to test them).

    http://lobaevarms.com/


    Whatever happened to this rifle:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1IDsCrycU

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    par far

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    Post  par far on Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:39 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    par far wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    par far wrote:

    Whenever I see pictures of the Russian military training, they are most of the time using the SVD Sniper, why don't they use the Orsis or Lobavev or other sniper rifles?

    Because those are not frontline sniper rifles. They cost like dozen SVDs, and are overkill for what squad dedicated marksman would use it for. Small amount of those were seen in hands of MVD and FSB but thats all, they are more sporting rifles than for military use.

    there's also another reason. There are now other optics available for the rifle with ad hoc zeroing. In those pictures you have brand new Dedals 8x30-32/8x40 and what looks like 12x50. This allows for the SVD to basically move out of the 600m killzone up to a more respectable 800 with only ammunition and optic swap.

    Also thanks to the Universal mount, the rifle retains its Iron sights, so it doesn't sacrifice anything except some more RUR from the Budget.

    That is good that they are up to 800m kill zone but KoTeMoRe, don't you think, that Russia needs some snipers in the Russian Army(regular army), that can hit targets to 1500m(like most west countries do, I know that they have the 12.7x108 snipers but those are very heavy and make a lot of sound and flash to unmask the shooter).

    CheyTac Intervention rifle in .408 CT caliber weigths 14kg. That is 1kg more than OSV96. What would make sense tho is to simply make SV-98 in .338 Lapua or some similar caliber Russians are fond of to fill the gap.

    I think American Sniper Rifles are just cool looking and that is why everyone(including me), assume that they are the best.
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    Post  Guest on Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:12 pm

    par far wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    par far wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    par far wrote:

    Whenever I see pictures of the Russian military training, they are most of the time using the SVD Sniper, why don't they use the Orsis or Lobavev or other sniper rifles?

    Because those are not frontline sniper rifles. They cost like dozen SVDs, and are overkill for what squad dedicated marksman would use it for. Small amount of those were seen in hands of MVD and FSB but thats all, they are more sporting rifles than for military use.


    Hi there Militarov, by saying this, you are saying that the Russian Armed Forces are cheap(which they are not) and that Russia cannot make long range snipers for the military, just sporting rifles.

    You are basically saying that the west is better than Russia, when it comes to making long range sniper rifles(which I don't think is true).

    I stay completely behind this statement of mine. SVD is fine squad dedicated marksman rifle, one of its qualities is fact its cheap. Infantry squad dedicated marksman rifles are in majority of the armies simply heavy barrel guns based on assault or battle rifles.

    Some examples:

    Germany - HK417/MR308 A3 and G3SG/1 (latter one is becoming rare)
    USA - SDM-R and M21/M25
    Serbia - M76 and M91
    China - QBU-88 and Type 79 (Basically SVD but getting phased out)
    Japan - Howa Type 64
    UK - L129A1
    Turkey - MSG90 and SR-25 (some SVDs too)

    Some countries like Canada and France prefer to issue on squad lvl bolt action sniper rifles but is in my opinion huge waste of money especially on sizeable armies, even worse if conscript based.

    Also Lobaev rifles will never enter military service, at least not existing models, thes are single shot, custom-built bolt-action sniper rifles for fun, target practice and enthousiasts, they have no place in mud. Some were as i said above seen in hands of FSB/MVD units but i doubt more than few dozen were ever obtained.

    Long range anti-material rifles that Russians do actually use are SVN-98, KSVK and OSV-96.

    I agree with on the SVD, it is a fine weapon but I think Russia needs to get a caliber like  338 lapua into the hands of the regular army(Orsis T 5000 or the newer version of the Orsis T 5000). The SVD can be a mid range rifle, 338 lapua the long range and  SVN-98, KSVK and OSV-96 can be Long range anti-material rifles.

    Here are the Lobaev Snipers, I think they can be fine sniper rifles(the army just has to test them).

    http://lobaevarms.com/


    Whatever happened to this rifle:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1IDsCrycU


    Lobaev does not have production rates high enough to supply the armed forces, also their rifles are very expensive as they are hand made, tested, polished and everything that goes with it, even agencies that obtain them get very few for top tier sniper teams like FSB did. Army after all needs something more affordable. They are still more affordable tho than some Western rifles but lets be real, US has 600+ billion military budget they can afford to throw money around.

    VKS is in service with interior security forces, FSB and MVD, not sure if it was ever obtained by the Army.
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    Post  tipex12 on Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:11 pm

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    Post  Bolt on Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:20 pm

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:30 am

    Hi there Militarov, by saying this, you are saying that the Russian Armed Forces are cheap(which they are not) and that Russia cannot make long range snipers for the military, just sporting rifles.

    No, what he is saying is that the gold plated very high precision weapons like Orsis are not durable enough to take into combat and would be better used by police snipers or other paramilitary forces like the FSB or interior ministry forces.

    You are basically saying that the west is better than Russia, when it comes to making long range sniper rifles(which I don't think is true).

    For a very long time Russia and the Soviet Union were not very interested in very long range sniper rifles as they are very impractical without extremely precise rifles, ammo, rangefinding equipment, trained snipers, ideal conditions, and many other factors.

    Now that Russia has improved its production systems and has recognised the importance of longer range fire power it has made enormous leaps in terms of performance potential, but in practical terms their operational sniper rifles are the SVD and a few bolt action rifles like the SV-98 amongst other weapons. The large calibre weapons are generally used for hard targets like light vehicles and are not really sniper rifles as such.

    That is good that they are up to 800m kill zone but KoTeMoRe, don't you think, that Russia needs some snipers in the Russian Army(regular army), that can hit targets to 1500m(like most west countries do, I know that they have the 12.7x108 snipers but those are very heavy and make a lot of sound and flash to unmask the shooter).

    I would suggest the chances of a soldier in a normal unit that can spot and identify a target that is 1,500m away that needs to be taken out then a PKP would be a much better tool for the job.

    For targets out to 2km then Metis-M1 makes rather more sense and would actually be a cheaper way of taking out a point target at extreme range as anyone can set it up and fire with a decent chance of taking out not just the target but the room he is standing in.

    I stay completely behind this statement of mine. SVD is fine squad dedicated marksman rifle, one of its qualities is fact its cheap. Infantry squad dedicated marksman rifles are in majority of the armies simply heavy barrel guns based on assault or battle rifles.

    The sniper model of the Mosin rifle is based on a standard rifle too, so not much has changed... the SVD is a sniper rifle. Perhaps we can agree on terms by giving intended ranges to distinguish the weapons. SV-99 is clearly a short range sniper rifle, SVD and VSS are medium range weapons, while the SV-98 is a long range sniper rifle. Larger calibre weapons are anti material rifles.

    No it is not needed at all. The muricans invented terms without any difference or alteration through firearms history on technological level. The same things that were called 10 years or 60 years back Assault rifles are today indoctrinated by Americans to be called Battlerifles.

    The term battle rifle is supposed to describe semi automatic rifles incapable of full automatic fire.

    the term Assault Rifle is a weapon that combines the capabilities of a battle rifle with the capabilities of a sub machine gun... in other words moderate range accuracy and power with short range high volume fire. An FN FAL for instance is an assault rifle as it can fire single shot and full auto. You could argue that it is not great in the SMG role but then you could equally argue an M16 is not a great battle rifle with its weak little rounds with little more effect than .22lr at more than 300m.

    A battle rifle would include bolt action rifles, as well as semi autos that have no full auto capability.

    The L1A1 as used in the British Commonwealth is a battle rifle despite being based on the assault rifle FN FAL because it has no capacity for full auto fire. The SKS is a battle rifle too. The Mosin Nagant M1930/1891 rifle is also a battle rifle.


    I agree with on the SVD, it is a fine weapon but I think Russia needs to get a caliber like 338 lapua into the hands of the regular army(Orsis T 5000 or the newer version of the Orsis T 5000). The SVD can be a mid range rifle, 338 lapua the long range and SVN-98, KSVK and OSV-96 can be Long range anti-material rifles.

    I would have to ask you what the fuck an SVD equipped sniper within a normal squad would be doing wasting his time looking for threats 1.5km away? That is an enormous volume of ground that he would need to be able to scan to find targets and mind you not just find but also identify as enemy to be actually able to shoot.

    You want that guy to carry a 10kg plus rifle and heavy expensive ammo so what... he can shoot at things that are really none of his business...

    Might come as a shock but odds are that guy is operating from an APC or IFV with a 30mm cannon at the very least and that also has magnified night vision equipment and communications equipment to find targets are much greater range and engage them... why waste money giving him the reach to hit targets he will never see?

    I would think fitting his SVD with a x12 magnification individual weapons scope with laser range finding and a ballistics computer to hit targets within 1,000m will be all he needs... perhaps a heavy barrel version like the VS-121 might be a good step, but 338 LM calibre weapons belong in dedicated sniper teams that operate on their own and would benefit from extra standoff shooting distances.

    Whatever happened to this rifle:

    The VSS is in operational service in recon units and the VSK is likely in service by the FSB units that requested its development.

    I think American Sniper Rifles are just cool looking and that is why everyone(including me), assume that they are the best.

    American sniper rifles look awful... the M21 is just an M14 which is crap. Their bolt action version of the Remington model 700 are just boring.
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    Post  DTA on Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:16 am

    An-124 planes transported military equipment to Tajikistan for drills


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    Post  tipex12 on Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:42 pm

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    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:15 pm

    Tests on the SKOPRPION LShA

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    Post  Elbows on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:52 pm

    As an American AK enthusiast it's interesting to see you folks really passionate about terminology used here in the states. In the firearms/police/military community we use a couple of terms for simple designation. They may or may not be used by the military proper, but on civilian/casual forums and the shooting community they're common. It's definitely interesting to see what other folks think.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:06 pm

    Elbows wrote:As an American AK enthusiast it's interesting to see you folks really passionate about terminology used here in the states.  In the firearms/police/military community we use a couple of terms for simple designation.  They may or may not be used by the military proper, but on civilian/casual forums and the shooting community they're common.  It's definitely interesting to see what other folks think.

    Wrong terminologies that have no reason to exist and especially terminologies not used by a single country outside the US makes the terminology useless, like Battle Rifle. US does not have a single battle rifle in active service but uses such terminology, which makes the entire point to a ridiculous nonsense trying to impose terminology on NATO slaves like they try to use this shit here in germany.
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    Post  Elbows on Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:15 pm

    Seems like an odd thing to get so upset about. Unfortunate I suppose.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:43 pm

    Elbows wrote:Seems like an odd thing to get so upset about.  Unfortunate I suppose.

    No it is not. It is the very fact of our daily lifes that muricans try to indoctrinate and imposse whatever horseshit they come up with as their stupid doctrine of hegemony and their impossed americanization of europe. The reaction to that is that some people who are educated about the political state and manipulation of our buisness in our countries is allergic to whatever horseshit they come towards us. That is human nature of indogen-folks reacting to invaders.
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    Post  tipex12 on Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:31 pm

    this whole sniper rifle/marksman's rifle discussion is useless

    #1 historically most sniper kills are well within 400m and the svd is more than capable at those ranges
    #2 historically most firefights are within 100m not the 300-400m that most assault rifles are accurate to
    #3 as with all rifle accuracy the shooters skill is far more important than the latest expensive rifle. old mosin nagants killed people in ww2 just fine.
    #4 semi auto vrs bolt action. bolt action is more accurate, but semi auto offers more protection to the shooter for close pop up targets due to reload speed so dealers choice
    #5 most importantly lets kill this conversation and get back to posting pics and vids
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:36 pm

    tipex12 wrote:this whole sniper rifle/marksman's rifle discussion is useless

    #1 historically most sniper kills are well within 400m and the svd is more than capable at those ranges
    #2 historically most firefights are within 100m not the 300-400m that most assault rifles are accurate to
    #3 as with all rifle accuracy the shooters skill is far more important than the latest expensive rifle. old mosin nagants killed people in ww2 just fine.
    #4 semi auto vrs bolt action. bolt action is more accurate, but semi auto offers more protection to the shooter for close pop up targets due to reload speed so dealers choice
    #5 most importantly lets kill this conversation and get back to posting pics and vids

    Or have the discussion moved to the appropriate thread. George1, will you do us the honor on moving the discussion?

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