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    Russian Armed Forces tactics in Future conflicts

    Airbornewolf
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    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:08 am

    Werewolf wrote:NATO does not even have logistics to deploy anything serious to eastern front, we had this discussion before. While Ukraine defacto is russia and the russians have no problem deploying much quicker and more forces through their own land with own AN-124 and via train. NATO forces in Europe are bound to each countries logistics, which are only concentrated in Germany in US hands only. Germany with our own logistics have been reported in 2012 that our logistics is exhausted from 6000 Soldiers in Afghanistan, Kosovo and other places while Germany relies on russian and ukrainian companies with our AN-124 to deploy german tanks, helicopters, infantry to afghanistan. Meaning the entire logistics will fall upon US and UK, while US has some capabilities for logistics they are pathetically low when facing such an opponent like Russia.


    i second this, NATO logistics are crippled today because of over-exhaustion and budget cuts. not to mention there are no more logistical reserves like ammunition and spare parts left to ferry to the front. Russia will eat any NATO forces for breakfast as they burn trough their initial ammo quickly in the opening engagements. Afghanistan and Iraq reduced the cold-war ammo stockpile to pretty much zero of NATO. from reliable sources i know the germans and dutch have only enough ammo to sustain an year of training. and in case of war. or any war purpose, the majority of EU NATO ammo is bought from Brasil. you dont seriously think they are going to supply ammo to NATO against their BRICS ally do you?.

    western media likes to portray such expensive logistical toys like the C-5 Galaxy or C-17 globemaster as some sort of demi-god of logistics. reality is, in foreign deployments what you see on airfields is Russian operated Illyushin's or Antonov's. in the field it breaks down to the MI-26 in Afghanistan by local russian contractors to ferry supplies for their affordability and capacity. i had to gaurd the damn things 3 hours a week in my tour because the mi 26 was too big to land on our FOB but we REALLY needed its cargo of spare parts, ammo and water. prior to my tour i was told "russian equipment is inferior and etc etc". but my opinion of that turned 180 when i witnessed our dependency of that "inferior" gear up close. its not as shiny as an blackhawk, but Russian hardware out there got us our supplies and hardware where NATO logistical aircraft failed.

    and in this question, there is no doubt in my mind the Russian logistics will wipe out Nato's. logistically speaking,

    ask an question about actual combat readiness and Morale within NATO EU forces and its catastrophic, elements within EU NATO are more likely to target american forces in the event of an full scale confrontation with Russia than Russians for one example. thats mostly an legacy because the yanks dragged us to Afghanistan to assist them in their double-standards and biased foreign wars where the average EU soldier like myself started hating american foreign policy, recklessnes and disregard the average U.S soldier shows for human life.

    propably what lighted that view of seeing the U.S as the "enemy" is their support of the Kiev Nazi government. media scensorship is nice, but anyone with a few braincells can go to the internet nowadays and look up alternative media sources for their side of the story. for example, one that obviously is a pain to the ass of state-clown John Kerry being Russia Today.

    my grandfather died fighting the Nazi's on the Greppeberg, basically an futile attempt to resist the german army but still. he died there fighting against an SS assault and i deeply respect his sacrifice just like the Russian soldiers did against Fascism and where it will lead to if not resisted. and so a lot of EU soldiers have fammily's that lost relatives against the Nazi's. it stirs a deep hatred towards that U.S policy. also, while its trying it utmost best to paint the Russia as the enemy it mostly has the opposite effect. most of "us" EU troops that went to Afghanistan/iraq returned home with a lot of resentment where the NATO commander, the U.S.A had total control did some very nasty things. and we all where just servants to them to reach their goal. personally, i will hate them for it every day in my life. there are no excuses to blow up an fammily of 30 people with kids and women into low-earth orbit while a couple of snipers would have done the job like we intended to and there was no pressure. "who cares?, they are just afghans. give 'em a few dollars and they are happy". this yank told us afterwards. but hey, "shock and awe!". thats one example, there where more instances "we" had to clean up bodyparts and body's because of U.S incompetence and sheer disregard of human life. of course, im not holy or anything. but i really try my best to honour my conscience. and the majority of that U.S scum should be dragged to Hague's criminal court for lacking any shred of humanity or moral standards.

    there is an deep growing sentiment within EU forces like France, Germany, Dutch, Czech's and Slovaks, spaniards among others that the U.S is trying to start an proxy war between NATO and Russia in Europe. solely to prevent the Germans to align with Russia economically and politically. and propably bringing with it the rest of europe integrating with the Euroasian sphere of influence.

    what the U.S is forgetting is "we" Europeans here all live together closely on the same continent and went trough two world wars and never want something like it ever again. the White House might scream fire when it comes to Russia. their EU poodles in Brussels might beat the wardrums too. but the EU army?. dont count on it, at the least they are immobilized by breakdown of command and authority if it comes to open war with russia.

    Godric
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    Post  Godric Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:20 pm

    more to the point the most advanced tank any Nato country has faced in combat is the T-72M1 the export version of the T-72A minus composite armour and reactive armor and they haven't faced any country with a advanced and well organised Air Defense system never mind a competent Airforce
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 02, 2015 9:42 am

    Not to mention the fact that moving a few S-400 units to the border inside Russia would cover most of the Ukrainian airspace...

    Allowing a conflict there would be stupid as it could easily escalate out of control... any perceived benefit on either side is simply not worth it.
    Dima
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    Post  Dima Tue May 05, 2015 6:32 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:I think of a similar scenerio to the one in Combat Mission: Black Sea (may God bless the developers Wink) It's a purely conventional war so don't talk about mutual destruction.

    The situation looks like this - As a result of a failed Ukrainian spring offensive (Cool) Novorussian army starts a counter-attack and recovers Kramatorsk and Sloviansk as well as captures Kharkov, Mariupol and Zaporozhye Ukrainian army suffers such heavy casualties that it's finished as a fighting force. US is pissed off and being afraid of losing influence in Ukraine, it decides to send US Army into Eastern Ukraine and fight together with Poland to recapture the lost lands ( as other major NATO countries refuse to deploy any forces)..Soon joint US-Polish forces deploy into Ukraine and 2-3 weeks later they start the operation. Russia subsequently deploys it's own forces.

    The forces looks as follows:
    US: 1 armored division, 3 mechanized infantry divisions, several Navy Seals platoons, several dozen fighter and bomber aircraft
    Poland: 1 armored brigade (Leo2A5), 2 mechanized brigades, various commando units, 48 F-16, some Mi-24s

    Russia: Army and VDV units, some SU-27s and Mig-29s, Su-25s, various AD forces, various commando units.

    Would Russia actually be able to repell such a force with forces no more than 50% bigger than NATO ones?
    My view on such a conflict is 'simple' and as stated earlier in another thread.. I would like to see such a head on collision only when the Russian Navy is up and running. Coz I don't like to fight a battle limited to my backyard and would like to strike far and strike sure and live to fight another day!
    franco
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    Post  franco Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:16 pm

    A look into how the US views the Russian forces and tactics.

    https://info.publicintelligence.net/AWG-RussianNewWarfareHandbook.pdf

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:34 am

    (U) Ukraine’s 2014 Euromaidan Revolution overthrew a corrupt Russian supported president
    and threatened to place a pro-European government in power on the very outskirts of the Russian
    Federation. In March 2014, Russia occupied Ukraine’s Crimea with SPETsNAZ units in a virtually
    bloodless operation. SPETsNAZ then infiltrated into the Donbas region, fomenting unrest and sparking a
    pro-Russian insurgency.
    (U) Over the next few months, the Ukrainian military and volunteer militia fought back rather
    successfully. They pushed the separatists back to the very border with Russia. Then everything changed.
    Russian regular troops with heavy equipment attacked across their border and fought a series of
    encirclement battles resulting in hundreds of

    Oh dear god...

    How can NATO deal with a force that managed to push the Ukrainian military and volunteery militia from the very Russian border to the positions now held without a single loss of one Russian serviceman whose body could be paraded to western media... I mean if regular Russian troops with regular Russian Army equipment can do that without any evidence that could be shown on western TV and without US and NATO spy satellites and platforms able to record... this is really serious guys....

    And the NATO and US Soldiers using this manual must be really fucking stupid.

    This should be posted in the propaganda section.... or perhaps the humour section...
    Airbornewolf
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    Post  Airbornewolf Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:10 am

    franco wrote:A look into how the US views the Russian forces and tactics.

    https://info.publicintelligence.net/AWG-RussianNewWarfareHandbook.pdf


    I agree with Garry, This needs to be put in the propaganda section.

    Reading this, i would not know where to start to comment on based from my own experiences within NATO and the U.S Millitary.

    The U.S Millitary is very good at digging its own grave to defeat in combat. It always sees itself as an force that is unmatched in terms of skill, firepower and technology. Groslly misrepresenting the true enemy's strength and capability's. And always acts according to exactly that. This forms and very fragile glass bubble around their psyche that bursts at the first signs things are not as uncle sam advertised. And usually its already too late at this point.

    In Afghanistan, Americans lost almost entire platoons in single ambushes because as soon the dying starts and command structure starts falling appart the individual american soldier is overwhelmed that things could have gone so badly while since basic training they where told they where "unmatched". And even questioning this line of "superiority" or being self-critical is seen as betrayal inside the U.S Millitary.

    even when their own dead are loaded up in cargo aircraft and send back to the States they do not even question that they might have been wrong in their assumptions. even major tactical blunders and failure of leadership are ignored.
    Altough, this may have also been atributed because the U.S Milltary can not keep up filling up the rotation spots for their missions in foreign country's. Americans that did their tour in Iraq and assuming they where going home, often get told they get two weeks R&R in Europe before going for another Tour in Afghanistan without prior notice. They litterally might need every breathing body, regardless of skill.



    NATO troops themselves have grown disillusioned working with the U.S Millitary during the past decade of war in the middle east. NATO's Millitary's have functioned as auxillary forces to the U.S itself in its foreign adventures of course. In the field however, U.S Millitary actions often irritated and angered their NATO counterparts.

    Americans are seen as violent, trigger happy. unsensitive to collateral damage and disrespectfull to others. Untrustworthy and likely to shoot you in the back if the situation demanded it from them. During my stay at Camp Holland in Tarin Kowt, Afghanistan. Dutch And Australian Troops grew a deep dislike for american forces.


    If it became actual war in Europe, or in this case Ukraine. No sane NATO soldier would stand with the americans in the conflict against Donbass or even Russia. Far too much incidents already happened between EU army's and the U.S forces in mission zones.

    The crippling internal issues within EU NATO countries itself is also a list that never ends.

    This manual is simply pure fantasy.

    If i where an U.S soldier going to Ukraine, I'd trade it in for an English-Russian wordbook and use a permanent marker to encircle "dont shoot" and "i surrender".


    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:06 pm

    It is propaganda. And I served too... just before your time Wink
    Airbornewolf
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    Post  Airbornewolf Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:16 am

    franco wrote:It is propaganda. And I served too... just before your time Wink  

    I know Franco, i hope my reply did not came across as personal as i certainly did not meanth it like that.

    In the past i just had maybe a little too much to deal with "american exceptionalism" in the mission zones. So nowadays when i see them doing it i tend to start to get slightly irritated they just go down the same road they always gone. when responding out of emotion, its not always purely objectively and from an neutral standpoint.

    Out of curiosity, are you willing to share something about your service?. like when,witch country and particular branch?. i can not remember reading where you where active. i do not mind doing it trough Private Messaging if it makes you more comfortable if you do not want to do it in public.

    If you rather not, no hard feelings of course.




    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:22 am

    The U.S Millitary is very good at digging its own grave to defeat in combat.

    To be fair that is not just the US... the Soviets thought they just had to go to Afghanistan and restore order and everything would be fine... and it was probably the same with the British when they went into Afghanistan... what is it now... 5 times... and kicked out each time.

    Under estimating your enemy is so easy to do... I remember a family friend who fought in WWII in the Pacific war saying his commanders had told him that the Japs would be easy to beat as their planes were made of rice paper and could not even fly in the rain... he said they learned very quickly that they had an excellent navy and very professional pilots and rather capable planes... and the conflict would not have been so one sided if the US wasn't intercepting and reading their orders.

    But in this day and age only a fool thinks the enemy is going to be an easy beat... that is why I am against Russia just rolling in to the Baltics or the Ukraine and trying to take over... these countries could never beat Russia in a fair fight, but the fight would never be fair... it would be a guerilla fight... the chechens showed they knew what they were doing... like the Finns, or the Vietnamese... and I would suspect the Scottish.

    Here in New Zealand we didn't wipe out the Maori... we ended up having to have a peace treaty and then stole their land using the white mans laws.
    If the British had not been so full of their own superiority they could have learned a lot about trench warfare from the Maori... but they were superior asses...

    In Australia the white men treated the locals poorly... until about 1967 they were counted as Flora and fauna...

    Americans are seen as violent, trigger happy. unsensitive to collateral damage and disrespectfull to others. Untrustworthy and likely to shoot you in the back if the situation demanded it from them.

    Sounds like an American policeman... to a black person especially.

    But where would they learn respect from... US presidents have been demonising leaders of other countries for the last 5 or 6 decades... if Gorby is the head of the evil empire then what does that make a Soviet citizen?

    In the 1990s all Iraqis were bad, but then it was Saddam and his lot that were bad and Iraqis were OK... to the point where it was worth an invasion to save them... even though they killed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did to save them from Saddam.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:59 pm

    Is a Russian military operation against Ukraine likely in the near future?

    https://russianmilitaryanalysis.wordpress.com/2018/12/26/is-a-russian-military-operation-against-ukraine-likely-in-the-near-future/
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:16 am

    A Russian military operation against the Ukraine would only be possible in the event of a Ukrainian attack on Russian territory... including the Crimea.
    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:29 pm

    Ready to storm the underworld

    In summer, the first Russian cuirassier lieutenants will be released from the walls of the Tyumen Higher Military Engineering School

    This summer, at the Tyumen Higher Military Engineering School named after Marshal of Engineering Troops Proshlyakov, an event will take place that is important not only for this school itself, but also for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation as a whole. There will take place the first graduation of lieutenants with a military specialty unprecedented in our country "The use of engineering units of assault and barrage." At the school, colleagues have already called such cadets "heavy" or attack aircraft.

    In other words, we are talking about officers of a new type of army special forces for Russia - military professionals trained in street combat, breaking through serious fortifications, seizing well-defended buildings, pillboxes, command posts and other things. Moreover - in the cramped space of unlit rooms, basements and corridors, in which one has to converge with the enemy literally "chest to chest".

    What is especially important: the first unit of such special forces in the RF Armed Forces was already formed six years ago. On December 1, 2014 in Murom, the 1st Guards Engineer-Sapper Brest-Berlin Red Banner Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov Brigade was recreated. At the same time, the one-of-a-kind brigade is not included in any military district. She immediately became part of the Reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.

    In other words, the Murom formation is intended to increase the capabilities of the engineering troops and the efficiency of their use, create a reserve for solving sudden tasks and strengthen the groupings of troops in strategic directions.

    The core and pride of the brigade is the assault and barrage battalion, designed to ensure the unhindered advance of general-purpose forces in street battles, which, according to calculations, will significantly increase the effectiveness of actions during the assault on well-defended buildings, while avoiding losses as much as possible.

    Soldiers and officers of the assault and defensive battalion are armed and equipped, respectively. And in combat conditions, they look like the heroes of fantastic action movies from "Star Wars". Because under the bullets they have to go chained in heavy armor. Like medieval knights.

    In addition to the most modern small arms, the battalion's personnel wear the so-called OVR-3Sh kit, which has been supplied to the troops since 2016. The main element of the set is a protective suit of the "Caspian" type made of rigid metal, plastic and ceramic plates, as well as flexible elements made of aramid fabric. To allow the fighter to move quickly, the front part of the protection is divided into two shields: the upper one, carried in the vest, and the lower one, fixed in a separate case and protecting the groin area.

    Tests have shown that the "Caspian" in front and behind reliably withstands bullets from an SVD rifle (cartridge 7.62 × 54 mm R) from a distance of up to five meters. And the blocks of aramid fabric covering the side of the torso are guaranteed to keep the "stormtrooper" alive when hit by bullets from a 9-mm pistol from the same distance.

    To protect the head, the OVR-3SH set includes a helmet of the "Warrior Kiver-RSP" type, which is also capable of withstanding the impact of fragments and small arms bullets. The face is covered with a transparent anti-splinter shield. The helmet is equipped with active noise canceling headphones and a laryngophone, allowing you to maintain continuous communication with the commander and the soldiers fighting nearby. On the helmet there is an additional powerful LED flashlight that allows you to hit the enemy even in pitch darkness.

    The kit includes an assault armor shield covering from bullets and shrapnel, a sapper's protective suit of the 6th protection class. On it - pockets for placing additional ammunition, sensors "friend or foe", "alive-wounded-killed" and GLONAC / GPS modules.

    In addition, depending on the situation, an engineer machete, a kit for knocking out doors, an assault ladder, hydraulic cutters, a circular saw, a hydraulic jack, combined scissors, a blasting machine and other means can be attached to the "attack aircraft" going into battle.

    In general, the OVR-3Sh set is a kind of armored spacesuit that protects the whole body and head from damage and allows not only surviving in street combat, but quickly seizing the most protected objects with small forces. But carrying it on yourself is still a pleasure. After all, the total weight of OVR-3Sh in various configurations is up to 20 kilograms. Another 2.5 kilograms "pulls" the protective helmet.

    Add to this the weight of weapons, ammunition, and "attachments" such as an assault ladder. The load will come out almost like that of a deep-sea diver dressed in a spacesuit, who is escorted from the deck of a rescue ship by sailors under the arms, and is lowered into the water with a special winch.

    Now it is clear why the cadets of the Tyumen Higher Military Engineering School, applying to study the course "Application of Engineering Units of Assault and Barrage", were called "heavy"? And they recruit only perfectly trained athletes into their ranks. However, as in any special forces.

    Now about how and why the idea was born in Russia to form a separate guards engineer-sapper brigade of the Supreme Command Reserve. Have you not forgotten what blood we got in the two Chechen wars in the storming of Grozny, the Chiri-Yurt cement plant, the village of Komsomolskoye, old missile silos near Bamut? If necessary, I will remind you. Let's say the battle for Bamut became the longest in the first Chechen war. And it lasted from March 1995 to May 1996. This village itself suffered so much that it was finally possible to restore it only by 2014. But everything would definitely be much simpler and not so bloody if they had then at least one assault unit, like the one that is now in Murom.

    Although in the history of our country there are suitable examples of the same kind from a more distant past. Namely - from the chronicle of the Great Patriotic War. When the front steadily rolled from the walls of Stalingrad towards Berlin, the Headquarters faced a problem: how and with what forces will we take thousands of cities and towns?

    They decided it as follows: on May 30, 1943, the formation of the first 15 assault engineer-sapper brigades was completed, the main task of which was to break through the Hitlerite fortified areas. “The personnel of the brigade are special sappers, attack aircraft with bullet-proof vests, in steel helmets, all armed with machine guns,” recalled General Galitsky, the former chief of engineering troops of the 1st Ukrainian Front . - They are intended for combat together with the infantry and must participate in breaking through the defense: in the destruction of pillboxes, bunkers, machine-gun nests and NP of the enemy ... ”.

    How did the Soviet assault engineer-sapper brigades usually fight for fortified areas and buildings? Tanks usually brought them to the enemy pillbox as far as possible. While the sappers secretly crawled to the target, the combat vehicles held at gunpoint the entrance to the enemy fortification. Then the soldiers climbed onto the roof and lowered an anti-tank mine into the chimney, to the fuse of which a cord was stretched. Then they crawled to the side and a crushing explosion was heard.

    For the capture of fortified buildings, they rarely did without flamethrowers. Their jets were directed into windows or into breaches made in the walls by their own artillery. Rarely, ground attack engineers poured gasoline into ventilation shafts and chimneys, and then set them on fire.

    That is how, in just four days in April 1945, we managed to take the city of Konigsberg, considered an absolutely impregnable capital of East Prussia, with its three rings of long-term fortifications around the city, with 17 fortresses on the outer ring and 10 more powerful forts, which today amaze the imagination with the thickness of the walls - on the inner ring. As part of the troops of the 3rd Belorussian Front in that battle, three assault engineer-sapper brigades proved to be excellent.

    What is the most surprising and encouraging, in my opinion, about their current heirs from Murom? They, the modern Russian cuirassiers, who are destined to be the first to fearlessly break into the thick of it if something happens, are not in danger of a shortage of personnel. According to the head of the Tyumen Higher Military Engineering Command School, Major General Dmitry Evmenenko , every year the competition among those wishing to master the specialty "The use of engineering units of assault and barrage" only increases. This is about the quality of today's youth in Russia. The best part, anyway.

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