Syrian Civil War: News #3

d_taddei2 wrote:nice article from RT on the Syrian Air Force, although no mention of the Su-17/22 which it should have included.

https://www.rt.com/news/321151-syrian-airforce-hama-base/


i have always been a big fan of the Mig-21 (especially upgraded versions).

I hear a lot people put down the Syrian armed forces, simply because they have a few failures now and then, but people forget just how long they have been fighting for and the hardships they face from the stress of the battle field, lost loved ones, and seeing their  people and country being destroyed. This would be extremely tough for anyone, and any forces throughout the world. USA, and western armed forces have never been involved in this kind of conflict since WW2, when the Nazi's invaded Europe although this was still a different kind of warfare. But no armed forces has had to endure what the Syrian armed forces have had to deal with, even if your not a fan of them you have to give them credit and praise for defending there country from terrorists who have been given backing from rich powerful nations around the globe. The Syrian armed forces have shown national pride and determination and people have the cheek to put them down i ask anyone on here have they been put in the same situation? have they but locked in a 4+yrs war, seen their country in ruins and lost loved ones, where the only options are to either to live life under ISIS and islamic extremists, flee your country and not knowing if you will find anywhere to live or even make it their alive, or stand fight for your country, the Syrian armed forces are doing the latter, and i say well done them, and i hope they win this war i really do.

Now that VVS/VKS is in the picture, it have already freed up SyAF greatly and this must be utilized to upgrade the SyAAF.

I think, Syria/Russia need to pull out (first batch) a dozen each of MiG-21 and MiG-23 and give them good upgrade and improve them for precise ground attack in addition to its interceptor/fighter role.

As per wiki SyAAF have the following numbers.

MiG-23 Flogger - 136 (80 MLD/50 BN/6 UM)

MiG-21 Fishbed - ~160 (MF/Bis U/UM R) 40 Reconnaissance/15 Used as Trainers/105 Capable of ground attacks

Su-24 Fencer - 20 (Some upgraded to Su-24M2 variant)

I dont know how much time it will take to upgrade a MiG-21 to the MiG-21-93 or MiG-21-97 standard or for upgrading the MiG-23....hope someone can give some timeline for such upgrades?

I would prefer the Syrian MiG-21s to be upgraded (considering long term) with RD-33 and with much better/larger HUD and larger displays than what the IAF MiG-21UPG/Bison got with their half-hearted/fund crunch 'economical' upgrade. Powered by RD-33 is going to be a significant improvement.

Same for MiG-23 (long term investment) with newer AL-31 engines as was demonstrated for the MiG-27 and obviously a complete avionics upgrade.

Even if the SyAAF can get upgraded 120-150 x MiG-21 and 80-110 x MiG-23 in the next 2-3 years (on a war footing) , it would be a great force enhancement rather than waiting to replace all the old ones one-on-one, which is almost impossible.

In parallel, Russia needs to speed up on delivering the 24 x MiG-29M/M2 that Syria contracted for and also take to upgrading the existing MiG-29s.

Agreed.  MiG-21's with newer upgraded systems and Su-22's with the same would bring a lot of potential to the SyAF.  Su-22 with something like SVP-24 for the Su-22 would do wonders.  Add in a newer radar system for better ECM and ground mapping/detection would also do wonders.

JohninMK wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:
What interests me, is how are nato hiding their losses? Lets say 50 nato soldiers are dying per month, the majory of those would be american, so how are the americans hiding the loss of 25-30 soldiers per month? Nato losses in syria would be higher than the iraq and afghanistan wars combined, yet somehow they havent been noticed. How is this possible?

Is the government using mind control on the families of the dead soldiers in order to make them forget they had a son? But what about their friends too? This must be a huge operation to keep it so secret that nobody knows. The operation to keep their forces secret on the ground is also pretty impresive too, you say they lead from the rear (?) and fight, yet dont appear on any videos. Thats awesome how in a war where everyone has a camera or a phone, these guys are good! Whether its 12,000, 15,000 or 35,000 as you claim thats a lot of troops, a lot of supplies to keep secret that must be very hard to hide. Suprising that russia hasnt released any sat photos really.

By the way, on the one hand you say that the syrian army is not fighting civilians bit professional soldiers, then you say that the nato soldiers are in the rear and that the rest are people released from jail given the choice to fight for freedom, so which is it?

Oh, and with regards to nato not giving chemical weapons, ahem, just remind me who it was that sold chemical weapons to saddam hussein again? Or was the iraqi chemical weapons attacks actually carried out by nato special forces?

There is no way that there are thousands of NATO special forces in Syria or anywhere else. In the UK the only soldiers we would regard as 'special forces' are probably the SAS and SBS and although the numbers are classified there must be less than 1000 and we probably have the second highest number in NATO. So, even including the US, there are just not that number in existence. They are called 'special' for a reason.

The next level down here will specialists from the Marines or Paras and there is no way that hundreds, let alone thousands could 'vanish' into an operation without it at least gaining some publicity. Anyway, with the cutbacks across NATO there is some doubt as to how many actual frontline troops they can generate in public, let alone secret.

Thousands of untrained volunteers yes, thousands of ex-non NATO military and hardened fighters yes, dozens of US/NATO special forces 'advisors' yes, lots more US/NATO in command centres yes, hundreds of ex US/NATO mercs yes, but thousands or even hundreds of actual NATO troops is just not possible.

[/quote]

Yes because if there is no pictures it doesn't exist?  

Already provided you evidence of a major French Special forces operation in HOMs in 2012,were 120 soldiers of NATO captured. Even though france denied that.. for "mysterious"
reasons they go an reopen their embassy in Damascus.. and French Journalist with contacts with the Syrian government ,told it was for negotiating the release of the French Special forces.
After that Incident NATO special forces do not go to the front line and they lead from behind .

You really can't expect the British government for example to send soldiers illegally in Syria
without the support of the British parliament and later release videos of them there. There are no much videos of NATO forces in Syria ,in the same way that there are not much videos of Russian forces in Ukraine.. but they are there. That is private military contractors who goes there to fight.  

Why you don't see any reports of their deaths in the media? because they hide it. Russia do not have NGOS in USA or UK or France spying on soldiers casualties ,like Americans does in Russia. US and Britian and France all have many ways to keep under in secret military casualties of their special forces.

Professional military usually hired for such special missions by US and Allies ,are selected for their low profile.. ie.. no family ,no children ,no wife or simply not very social. There is also money for silence. "military Suicides" are at record levels. any military can die in a combat zone and later the US or its allies will claim "it was a suicide" in a training. None of the US or NATO special forces are allowed to tell their families about their military operations. there are millions of ways ,plus one , to keep a military operation under secret.  If Syria army could capture in 2012 , 120 french special forces in just one city.. what makes anyone thing that was an isolated case?

meanwhile...

Evidence of Covert US Forces in Southern Syria

http://russia-insider.com/en/military/evidence-covert-us-forces-southern-syria/ri10470

The U.S. Army and the U.S. Marine Corp are the only known users. Since 2012 the weapons has been used in Afghanistan. The system surely requires significant training. Controlling a remote plane 10 km away over unknown terrain is not easy. This excludes the use of the system by some more or less untrained Syrian mercenaries.

My conclusion is that U.S. soldiers, likely some special forces, are in south Syria on Syrian ground on either reconnaissance or targeted killing missions. This is an invasion in violation of international law.

So you see right there the Big lie of US special forces being sent to north of Syria recently..
to make it look as if they have no presence in Syria before that. The US special forces are in
Syria and many other NATO special forces too. and they are not there to "fight ISIS" that by the way are not in Damascus according to US own released information. This are kamikaze drones with only 10km range that can only be operated inside Syria. and there is EVIDENCE of their use on Syria.. The US government will never give such delicate weapon to terrorist they dont trust that could be used against them. such weapons can only be operated by people the US government trust.. ie.. the US Army or US special forces.. the first use of such advanced drones was in 2012 in afganistan. so much for "no evidence" of NATO military not in Syria. ouch!

KAB-500 Precision Guided Bomb of the Indian Air Force supposedly from a MiG-21.



I'd love to see the SyAAF MiG-21s with four of these (KAB-500-OD or KAB-500Kr) on pylons like we saw in the RT video from Hama airbase of a SyAAF MiG-21 with four locally made dumb munition. How much will those be weighing?

Weights: total/warhead/HE, kg
KAB-500-OD (370/250/140)
KAB-500Kr (520/380/100)

Dima wrote:KAB-500 Precision Guided Bomb of the Indian Air Force supposedly from a MiG-21.



I'd love to see the SyAAF MiG-21s with four of these (KAB-500-OD or KAB-500Kr) on pylons like we saw in the RT video from Hama airbase of a SyAAF MiG-21 with four locally made dumb munition. How much will those be weighing?

Weights: total/warhead/HE, kg
KAB-500-OD (370/250/140)
KAB-500Kr (520/380/100)

Those bombs in migs-21 have to be homemade copies of Russian bombs like KAB-250 and
maybe even KAB-500 but without the advanced precision guidance with the permission of Russia. Russia understand the war Syria face and the cost of it.. So Russia was helping
Syria not only with weapons but also with the know how's ,how to design similar  versions of
their soviets bombs. You can see that knowledge passed with the Thermobaric Bombs that sometimes Syria drop from hellicopters.. and western media calls it Barrel Bombs ,and creates a HUGE blast , only comparable with 2-3 dropped KAB-500 bombs at same time.

Anyone have any idea what sort of equipment muhajids have that can intercept signals of approaching warplanes?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/killed-injured-air-strikes-syria-douma-151107085450020.html

Is this Smerch? Found in northern Hama.

ultron wrote:Anyone have any idea what sort of equipment muhajids have that can intercept signals of approaching warplanes?

Ears, eyes and mobile phones.

Dima wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:nice article from RT on the Syrian Air Force, although no mention of the Su-17/22 which it should have included.

https://www.rt.com/news/321151-syrian-airforce-hama-base/


i have always been a big fan of the Mig-21 (especially upgraded versions).

I hear a lot people put down the Syrian armed forces, simply because they have a few failures now and then, but people forget just how long they have been fighting for and the hardships they face from the stress of the battle field, lost loved ones, and seeing their  people and country being destroyed. This would be extremely tough for anyone, and any forces throughout the world. USA, and western armed forces have never been involved in this kind of conflict since WW2, when the Nazi's invaded Europe although this was still a different kind of warfare. But no armed forces has had to endure what the Syrian armed forces have had to deal with, even if your not a fan of them you have to give them credit and praise for defending there country from terrorists who have been given backing from rich powerful nations around the globe. The Syrian armed forces have shown national pride and determination and people have the cheek to put them down i ask anyone on here have they been put in the same situation? have they but locked in a 4+yrs war, seen their country in ruins and lost loved ones, where the only options are to either to live life under ISIS and islamic extremists, flee your country and not knowing if you will find anywhere to live or even make it their alive, or stand fight for your country, the Syrian armed forces are doing the latter, and i say well done them, and i hope they win this war i really do.

Now that VVS/VKS is in the picture, it have already freed up SyAF greatly and this must be utilized to upgrade the SyAAF.

I think, Syria/Russia need to pull out (first batch) a dozen each of MiG-21 and MiG-23 and give them good upgrade and improve them for precise ground attack in addition to its interceptor/fighter role.

As per wiki SyAAF have the following numbers.

MiG-23 Flogger - 136 (80 MLD/50 BN/6 UM)

MiG-21 Fishbed - ~160 (MF/Bis U/UM R) 40 Reconnaissance/15 Used as Trainers/105 Capable of ground attacks

Su-24 Fencer - 20 (Some upgraded to Su-24M2 variant)

I dont know how much time it will take to upgrade a MiG-21 to the MiG-21-93 or MiG-21-97 standard or for upgrading the MiG-23....hope someone can give some timeline for such upgrades?

I would prefer the Syrian MiG-21s to be upgraded (considering long term) with RD-33 and with much better/larger HUD and larger displays than what the IAF MiG-21UPG/Bison got with their half-hearted/fund crunch 'economical' upgrade. Powered by RD-33 is going to be a significant improvement.

Same for MiG-23 (long term investment) with newer AL-31 engines as was demonstrated for the MiG-27 and obviously a complete avionics upgrade.

Even if the SyAAF can get upgraded 120-150 x MiG-21 and 80-110 x MiG-23 in the next 2-3 years (on a war footing) , it would be a great force enhancement rather than waiting to replace all the old ones one-on-one, which is almost impossible.

In parallel, Russia needs to speed up on delivering the 24 x MiG-29M/M2 that Syria contracted for and also take to upgrading the existing MiG-29s.

I like the idea about putting the SVP-24 on SyAAF jets. I don't think they have that many aircraft in service, and i don't think they can upgrade that many in 3 years, but such a program to install the SVP-24 (presumably an export version) first and foremost on the attack jets namely Su-22, MiG-23BN and MiG-21 plus also on L-39 would significantly boost SyAAFs capability. Su-24MK2s and MiG-29SM can carry precision attacks anyway, if not all airframes of these types have been upgraded they could continue until all are. That leaves the MiG-23MF/MLD(exp.)/MLD, but they are still somewhat viable as interceptors so probably better to focus on the other types. Needless to say, speedy delivery of the contracted MiG-29M/M2 and the 36 Yak-130 would  be a critical boost, and they really need some modern attack helos and transport ones to replace attrition. But it's all a problem of money (Syria) and politics (Russia). Like i said earlier in another topic, it would be truly baffling if Russia have sent all this contingent to help Syria against the rats, but would still not supply the weapons Syria really needs to defend itself.

whir wrote:

ultron wrote:Anyone have any idea what sort of equipment muhajids have that can intercept signals of approaching warplanes?

Ears, eyes and mobile phones.

AWACS, F-22 radar information, sat warning

http://combatfootagearchive.com/Videos/Syria---Regime-BMP-hit-by-Metis-ATMG-in-southern-rural-Aleppo-6112015.mp4
this video pretty much sums it up whats wrong with SAA

Regular wrote:http://combatfootagearchive.com/Videos/Syria---Regime-BMP-hit-by-Metis-ATMG-in-southern-rural-Aleppo-6112015.mp4
this video pretty much sums it up whats wrong with SAA

Looks like SAA are a bunch of street kids. If this were the Russian army those mujahids would have been dead.

After full week battling terrorists , SAA finally secured Ghamam , Latakia governorate. And closest point to a Russian base in terrorist hands.

zg18 wrote:

After full week battling terrorists , SAA finally secured Ghamam , Latakia governorate. And closest point to a Russian base in terrorist hands.

But do not mention that.. The SAA is supposed to be incompetent .

ultron wrote:Anyone have any idea what sort of equipment muhajids have that can intercept signals of approaching warplanes?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/killed-injured-air-strikes-syria-douma-151107085450020.html

The Cannibals have NOTHING ... is NATO who provide them with Satellite communications and warn them every time any airforce take off and is heading to their positions. The terrorist
"Technology" Is NATO technology and all their logistics comes from NATO..specifically US-UK-ISRAEL And TURkey. Terrorist do most of the fighting and the logistics ,supplies ,food and training ,where to go ,which city to attack..when to run ,when to fight all that information comes from from a command CEnter they have in Incirlik Air Base in TUrkey..
that by "coincidence" is somewhat close to Syria.  Cyprus also have spy center from British that they spy all planes that fly over northern Syria.. ISrael also have a spy center near Golan heights where they advice the terrorist when the Syrian airforce is aproaching to them so they hide in their tunnels.  Syria is not fighting rebels without any help..but a NATO major powers proxy war.

Russia electronic warfare however could help some sources said to allow Russian planes
jam NATO radars trying to detect them.

Dima wrote:I think, Syria/Russia need to pull out (first batch) a dozen each of MiG-21 and MiG-23 and give them good upgrade and improve them for precise ground attack in addition to its interceptor/fighter role.

As per wiki SyAAF have the following numbers.

MiG-23 Flogger - 136 (80 MLD/50 BN/6 UM)

MiG-21 Fishbed - ~160 (MF/Bis U/UM R) 40 Reconnaissance/15 Used as Trainers/105 Capable of ground attacks

Su-24 Fencer - 20 (Some upgraded to Su-24M2 variant)

I dont know how much time it will take to upgrade a MiG-21 to the MiG-21-93 or MiG-21-97 standard or for upgrading the MiG-23....hope someone can give some timeline for such upgrades?

The MiG-23 shown in the RT report is a MiG-23MLD which was the last and most modern version of the MiG-23. They got a number of them in Belorussia a few years back before the war....I remember reading that a lot of their older versions also got upgraded to similar standard as well....also in Belorussia.

Their Su-24's are MK2 variant which is the export version of the Su-24M2

The MiG-29's have also undergone some sort of upgrade making them compatible with more modern weaponry...note the pylons for R-77 AAM's



I'm not sure the MiG-21's and 23's are worth upgrading considering they've been in constant use for the past 4 years


______________

Progress reported in Daraya

Breaking: Syrian Army Imposes Control Over Several Building Blocks in the Strategic City of Darayya
http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-syrian-army-imposes-control-over-several-building-blocks-in-the-strategic-city-of-darayya/

Syrian Army Cuts the Strategic Rebel Supply Route in Rural West Damascus
http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-cuts-the-strategic-rebel-supply-route-in-rural-west-damascus/

Pro-gov forces claim to have taken Aziziyah and Tel Mamu, and allegedly Tulaylat in south aleppo
http://wikimapia.org/8137903/Aziziyah

Pro-Rebel source says Aziziyah is taken by SAA but clashes continue
https://www.facebook.com/HalabTodayTV/posts/1250395578311211

Official NDF says Aziziyah and Tel Mamu taken
https://www.facebook.com/National.Defence.Forces.NDF/photos/a.434975923224445.97932.434107746644596/929071420481557/?type=3

Few pics of Syrian Airforce fighters

Can anyone give me a full or near full description of Syria's airforce numbers, equipment, modernization and use? I know it is asking for a lot, but a nice rundown would be good.

Cyberspec wrote:The MiG-23 shown in the RT report is a MiG-23MLD which was the last and most modern version of the MiG-23. They got a number of them in Belorussia a few years back before the war....I remember reading that a lot of their older versions also got upgraded to similar standard as well....also in Belorussia.


Their Su-24's are MK2 variant which is the export version of the Su-24M2

The MiG-29's have also undergone some sort of upgrade making them compatible with more modern weaponry...note the pylons for R-77 AAM's



I'm not sure the MiG-21's and 23's are worth upgrading considering they've been in constant use for the past 4 years

Whatz the problem with upgrading a/c that have been in use for 4 years?
Its silly to throw away a/c which could be upgraded to strengthen the SyAAF.
When I mention upgrading the MiG-21/23 I'm looking to making use of them as good interceptors to defend the Syrian airspace in conjunction with A-50 once this worst of the fighting is over. I always mention the A-50 in the Syrian context and would love to see Syria get few of them. The older gen birds like MiG-21/23 numbering nearly 200 or more should not be thrown away, rather they need to be upgraded including installation of RD-33/AL-31. These upgraded fleet along with A-50 will be a good force to recon with and make the backbone of the force untill newer/modern fighters like MiG-29 replace them in numbers in the future.

MiG-29s has to be upgraded to its full potential rather than to fire the R-77. They represent the most modern/combat capable a/c in the SyAAF and should be upgraded to carry the full spectrum of weapons. Syrian neighbors demand such a capability to exist with all the fighters of SyAAF.

Cyberspec wrote:T-72B near Palmyra

Can you post the link to this video?
Is it the same tank we saw being readied to be shipped to Syria recently?

Dima wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:The MiG-23 shown in the RT report is a MiG-23MLD which was the last and most modern version of the MiG-23. They got a number of them in Belorussia a few years back before the war....I remember reading that a lot of their older versions also got upgraded to similar standard as well....also in Belorussia.


Their Su-24's are MK2 variant which is the export version of the Su-24M2

The MiG-29's have also undergone some sort of upgrade making them compatible with more modern weaponry...note the pylons for R-77 AAM's



I'm not sure the MiG-21's and 23's are worth upgrading considering they've been in constant use for the past 4 years

Whatz the problem with upgrading a/c that have been in use for 4 years?
Its silly to throw away a/c which could be upgraded to strengthen the SyAAF.
When I mention upgrading the MiG-21/23 I'm looking to making use of them as good interceptors to defend the Syrian airspace in conjunction with A-50 once this worst of the fighting is over. I always mention the A-50 in the Syrian context and would love to see Syria get few of them. The older gen birds like MiG-21/23 numbering nearly 200 or more should not be thrown away, rather they need to be upgraded including installation of RD-33/AL-31. These upgraded fleet along with A-50 will be a good force to recon with and make the backbone of the force untill newer/modern fighters like MiG-29 replace them in numbers in the future.

MiG-29s has to be upgraded to its full potential rather than to fire the R-77. They represent the most modern/combat capable a/c in the SyAAF and should be upgraded to carry the full spectrum of weapons. Syrian neighbors demand such a capability to exist with all the fighters of SyAAF.

MiG-21-97 seems like it would have been a decent upgrade. An overhaul of the frame, mixed in with the RD-33 engines (modernized to newer variant of course RD-33MK) with newer radar, and the ability to use the newer R-27 variants would give it such new life. Although, for how long? Maybe converting a lot of them to be strike aircrafts and then concentrate MiG-23 and 29's to be more air superiority with newer engines and newer radar (most important). MiG-23 could have a lot of potential of course. Probably bigger radar too.

IRGC and Hezbollah storming rebel positions in souther Aleppo , around Al-Hadher



Current situation