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    Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:05 pm

    Photo evidence:

    Bellingcat is the worst source you have used so far...

    If there was any photographic evidence of active Russian forces in the Donbass region the US and EU would be publishing it and demanding an explanation from Russia... which is ironic because there is plenty of photographic evidence of US and EU forces in the Ukraine so what is the big deal if a few Russian Mercs decide they want to go and shoot some real world nazis?

    Bellingcat is funded and paid for by the UK government and is fully staffed by has been washed up ex UK intel losers who make Baldric look intelligent and sophisticated.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:47 pm

    They been caught lying that no one takes Bellingham serious, only western agencies who use the fake evidence for sanctions.  Mh17 disaster had nothing but a lot of bs from Bellingcat like fake BUK missile system sighting on the wrong section of territory.

    Not surprised someone as dumb as Tsavo uses it as a source, not first time either. Everyone trashed him to point he fled with tail behind is back, only to come back and hope people forgotten how incompetent he is.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:15 pm

    Bellend-cat was debunked by a Dutch blogger over MH17. They pimped some photo claiming it was the Buk missile smoke trail
    which was a in the wrong location and was from one of the Kiev regime's own missiles.

    Bellend-cat does not have any special access to any information about Ukria and the Donbass. Any such information has to be
    supplied by NATzO intelligence agencies, which then shows that it is a front outfit. The NATzO fake stream media uses assorted
    "NGOs" and "independent observers" to feed it reports and talking points for its hate propaganda campaigns. It is a lie factory
    ecosystem.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:36 pm

    Well by Tsavos logic if Russia is in Donetsk, then that must be why Putin has delivered an ultimatum to NATO to get out of Ukraine or face the consequences.

    In fact Ukraine has been a NATO proxy since well before 2014, and is preparing an invasion of Russian federation.

    You see ? Two can play at this game, but I think only one has the actual means to back it up.

    a NATO stealth invasion of Russia. Russia must take steps immediately to prevent NATO aggression. There are numerous pictures of NATO in Ukraine and NATO preparations for hostile actions on Russia. For this reason nuclear extended range iskander and zircon must be deployed to NATO front.

    How will bellingcat respond? Another failed ARRW test?

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:25 pm

    From a Russian source: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/16/fraud-conviction-appears-to-reveal-russian-troop-deployment-in-east-ukraine-a75835

    Russia also initially denied the presence of its military in Russian-occupied Ukrainian Crimea during the events of 2014. Vladimir Putin denied in the spring of that year that the “green men” in Crimea were Russian military, but in the fall he said that “this is a fact, we have never concealed it.”

    Exclusive. We will give the real names of the employees of the federal security service of Russia who were sent to Donetsk and Lugansk. Let's reveal the specifics of the FSB's work in Donbass. We will tell you about the management structure of the “DPR” and “LPR” groups and who in the Russian Federation controls security and the military sphere during the occupation. You will also learn about how Russia created army corps in Donetsk and Lugansk. War of Russia against Ukraine. The world is talking about escalation, and Putin has denied for the eighth year that it was the Russian army that occupied Donbass.
    How Russia is hiding its military in Donbas


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add text, link)

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:51 am

    The Moscow Times is owned by an oligarch in the Baltic States and is anti Russian propaganda for english speaking people in Russia... I wouldn't wipe my ass with that toilet paper.

    It is a paper for english speaking foreigners in Russia and was created by a Dutch guy who gave up ownership to give up the pretence that it was a Russian newspaper because he is not Russian and would need to indicate that it was foreign owned...

    It is distributed free of charge in places like hotels and cafes because it is likely western intel funded and supported.


    Last edited by GarryB on Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:01 am

    It's funny how he uses non biased sources.

    It's better to obtain from third sources. Non pro Russian or anti Russian. Usually blogs these days do a better job.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:15 am

    But do you REALLY trying to deny a direct Russian Army involvement?
    Same time, when you are masturbating with The Northern Wind in a thread side by?
    Seriously? Laughing
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:08 am

    ALAMO wrote:But do you REALLY trying to deny a direct Russian Army involvement?
    Same time, when you are masturbating with The Northern Wind in a thread side by?
    Seriously? Laughing

    What? What Northern Wind thread?

    I doubt Russian direct involvement with troops.  I don't deny them providing the dnr/lnr with weapons.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:18 am

    There is no such dedicated thread, which I find interesting. Laughing

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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:20 am

    ALAMO wrote:There is no such dedicated thread, which I find interesting. Laughing


    I'm still not sure what you are getting at. I never masturbated to some chat about Russian troops getting directly involved besides what is actually known. If you go back, I've been rather critical on Russia why they didn't get involved with directly assisting dnr/lnr forces but learned over time why.

    If you can provide a link, I would appreciate it.

    What I used to be critical of the use of blogs. But after disastrous failures of both RT, Sputnik and anything west of Russia, I have found blog sites like Antimaidan.ru and as such, found them far more honest.  Many are still shit though like Meduza and anything backing Navalny.  

    Or in other words, anything with actual evidence and not emotions is just good to use.  I guess only honest media is wikileaks and sdelanounas.ru simply for development.

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:38 am

    The point is, that we have tons of documented facts about direct Russian involvement in the conflict.
    Including interviews made with medically treated injured soldiers, back in Russia, made by the Russian state TV.
    Some of them used to be presented as volunteers, and that was already funny, as an official position of the Russian government was that it is an illegal activity.
    And some of them, they have already stopped the nonsense, and were not saying anything - that was much more reasonable.
    Dozens of photos made by dumb Russian soldiers, with turned on geolocation, aired in the VKontakte, picked by the Ukrs like cherries.
    And last but not least, we have a Jaceniuk famous statement, where he was just terrified. Terrified as a little kid, sawing a big bad wolf.
    Sure it was not an official intervention, and sure it was not the whole might of a Russian army - just a separated battalion sended here or there, to kick the door, or plug the neck.
    Or some Smerch barrage here&there.
    Counting provided hardware is pointless, tons of it.
    But there is a general question: who the f*ck care?
    Tons of mercenaries fought on the Ukr side, including special forces from half of Europe. There were "advisers" from Poland, Pribalts, the UK, US.
    Quite officially.
    Poland was a general store for gear&equipment, including dozens of SUVs. That was one of the reasons that Russian propaganda claimed about Polish mercenaries involved. There were no such, in a waste number of course. But whole trains of SUVs with Polish plates were just delivered there, and no one cared about taking those off.
    A constant flow of ammo from both Poland and Bulgaria. A T-72s and BMPs delivery from Hungary. MRE from all over Europe and the US.
    Who is "amazed" by the fact that Russians supplied&enforced their compatriots?
    Some emotional Goofy, perhaps Laughing
    The only thing that really amazes, is how effective&covert this operation was, if the opposite side can not prove anything with hard evidence. If they would have confiscated the phones from the troops, there would be close to zero evidences.
    That is how the Russian Army can conduct an operation, if it wants. You would not even notice what hit you.
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:46 am

    I do recall a destroyed T-72B3. I don't recall the soldiers back in Russia talking, honestly.

    I do recall volunteers. I know that tons of Russians, even some intelligence, have operated in the conflict but nothing short of volunteer or just nothing official.  I mean, even the Ukies in the end mentioned they weren't fighting Russia directly. I guess it also helped that on side of Ukrainians, as you said, NATO volunteers and on the separatists side, Russian volunteers. Also Brazilian, Serbian, Syrian, etc volunteers.

    Regardless, if Russia was actually involved, directly with their armed forces under Russian command, Ukrainian army wouldn't last a week.  And this is what we have talked about countless of times.

    I guess it also goes back, now I think about it, to 2008 Georgian war where Dead US soliders were proclaimed to be Mercenaries.

    We may know more in the years to come when things are told openly. Depending on the end results.

    But, we do see direct Russian intervention no further than Crimea where the Russians were able to stabilize the situation with what, two shots total?  I say that is efficiency and a type of efficiency if Russians were directly involved.

    Edit: but also, opsec is now even more important than ever so we may have trouble learning much till after the event.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:59 am

    You can't put your hands on a freshly painted T-72B3s not having official support, buddy.
    Neither on Tunguska ...
    Lots of 9M311 missile remains were presented ... of course claimed to be Pancyrs Laughing
    They evaporated half of the flyable Ukr airforce, for God's sake Laughing Laughing
    Of course, most of them claimed to be shot down by "airplane" or "long-range SAM" - and we can't contest both, to be honest Laughing Laughing

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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:20 pm

    No, hence why I said they did supply the DNR/LNR forces with equipment which I already admitted to.  I would say majority of the equipment is what the forces captured but more high end stuff is of course "donated".  I think there is a translation error between us because I clearly stated official vs not. Russian "troops" being in Ukraine would be active service members under a command and a command given directly at the top, with full fledged equipment and might of the army behind it. Crimea is an example of real Russian intervention.

    Not Mercenaries with donated equipment from up top.  This is what I and others speak of.

    Still unsure what you are getting at with me. I think you may need to direct your efforts elsewhere cause I don't disagree with you but also clearly laid out what I have said which doesn't go against what you said either.  The rest is semantics
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:14 pm

    The discussion also muddies the water by conflating the events of years gone by with those of today. What happened back in 2015 is not really relevant to 2021 and there are not many of us still here from those dire times.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:23 pm

    It's not about you Mike. angel
    I just find it funny, how people are trying to deny clear things due to some political or rather conceptual agenda.
    Trying to white out something, when the reality screams at the first place, and people don't give shit for the matter ... ? What is the reason? What for?
    Sure that Russkies were involved both directly and indirectly in the conflict. Denial is pointless.
    And who cares?
    Does anyone have a problem with that?
    Well .. one can go & blow Putin Laughing but he might not like the idea Laughing Laughing
    Both men & material, recon, direct and direct fire support ... They have lost several Forposts there.
    You can't provide a brand new T-72B3, either BPM-97 that was vastly used there, not having an official operation for the matter. All the gear was delivered there by railway, as we can easily spot railway transport markings on them. That was an official logistic/military operation in being.
    Some of the Ukr planes were shot down while flying 7km, which is impossible for both Tunguska and Osa, not to mention Strela or Igla. Operating higher tier systems is obvious either.
    Was it Pancyr, or really Buk, or something even bigger ... ? Newer saw any serious data for that matter other than the fact occurred.
    The barrage that hit one of the Ukr airfields with the frontal echelon of Mi-24s, was clearly reached at the very end of the Russian Smerch operational range. That was the heaviest caliber they could provide there, ballistic missiles are already too serious.
    Any Tochka can be investigated, just the same way the Russians investigated the Buk missile that shoot MH17.
    Russkies used a small finger to wipe out "the best trained&battle hardened army in Europe" Laughing Laughing Laughing as those clowns are yapping.
    What can they do using two small fingers affraid dunno Twisted Evil ?
    As I said, the point to be really impressed is the fact, that hardly any serious evidence other than made by the stupid soldiers themselves are on hand. If there would be no VKontakie photos uploaded in hundreds by the Russian soldiers, the Bellingcat would have been able to eat shit at most.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:31 pm

    The usual moving goal posts BS. Supplying weapons and volunteers is perfectly fine. That is what the west does around the
    world. It happened in Nicaragua, Syria, Afghanistan, etc. Now we have bitches bitching that Russia dared to support the legitimate
    defenders of the Donbass from the Kiev regime suppression paramilitaries.

    I suppose Crimea was supposed to submit to the trainloads of goons sent by Khuyiv in 2014 to enforce the coup regime's "authority"
    as well. GTFO.

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    Post  franco Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:02 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The discussion also muddies the water by conflating the events of years gone by with those of today. What happened back in 2015 is not really relevant to 2021 and there are not many of us still here from those dire times.

    Exactly thumbsup

    Started what soon showed it's self to be long retort. Said WTF and deleted it Arrow
    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:50 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:From a Russian source: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/16/fraud-conviction-appears-to-reveal-russian-troop-deployment-in-east-ukraine-a75835

    Russia also initially denied the presence of its military in Russian-occupied Ukrainian Crimea during the events of 2014. Vladimir Putin denied in the spring of that year that the “green men” in Crimea were Russian military, but in the fall he said that “this is a fact, we have never concealed it.”

    Exclusive. We will give the real names of the employees of the federal security service of Russia who were sent to Donetsk and Lugansk. Let's reveal the specifics of the FSB's work in Donbass. We will tell you about the management structure of the “DPR” and “LPR” groups and who in the Russian Federation controls security and the military sphere during the occupation. You will also learn about how Russia created army corps in Donetsk and Lugansk. War of Russia against Ukraine. The world is talking about escalation, and Putin has denied for the eighth year that it was the Russian army that occupied Donbass.
    How Russia is hiding its military in Donbas

    If you do not understand the question, you should not comment on it. When Putin was asked if there was a Russian army in Crimea, he said absolutely honestly that there were NO Russian military personnel there. And he was completely right, since the Crimean self-defense forces consisted of active fighters of the Crimean Berkut unit, as well as volunteers from the Berkut veteran organization, former servicemen and Cossack detachments. Thus, the Russian military personnel did not operate in Crimea until the moment when the Crimean Parliament did not officially request the assistance of the Russian army in maintaining order on the peninsula. At the same time, no one hid that the Crimean self-defense detachments were supported, including by Russian Special Operations Forces. But the special operations forces are also not a cadre army.
    And for the eighth year we have been forced to listen to the statements of idiots who cannot compare these two facts:
    1. The uprising in Crimea was raised by the Ukrainian Berkut unit and concerned citizens who joined them;
    2. No one hid the Russian army in Crimea. The Russian army has been in Crimea for about 300 years, just for your education.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:34 pm

    Regardless, if Russia was actually involved, directly with their armed forces under Russian command, Ukrainian army wouldn't last a week.

    true, but they r involved in the Donbass, a localized conflict, intentionally kept as at a low intensity level.
    If you do not understand the question, you should not comment on it. When Putin was asked if there was a Russian army in Crimea, he said absolutely honestly that there were NO Russian military personnel there. And he was completely right, since the Crimean self-defense forces consisted of active fighters of the Crimean Berkut unit, as well as volunteers from the Berkut veteran organization, former servicemen and Cossack detachments. Thus, the Russian military personnel did not operate in Crimea until the moment when the Crimean Parliament did not officially request the assistance of the Russian army in maintaining order on the peninsula. At the same time, no one hid that the Crimean self-defense detachments were supported, including by Russian Special Operations Forces.
    FYI, there were many RF SF soldiers in the Berkut uniforms. Other SF (aka "green man" & "polite people") took over the parliament before the official request the assistance was issued. Later 100s of soldiers in green field uniforms w/o any insignia secured Ukr. mil. bases & other sites. Putin said at the time that those uniforms could be bought in stores, but it fooled no1, as they were all equipped/armed the same, & spoke Russian in a non-local dialect.
    But the special operations forces are also not a cadre army.
    they r mil. contractors & subject to RF mil. law & regulations, so they r a cadre army, even if not in regular army units.
    2. No one hid the Russian army in Crimea.
    they tried to hide the additional units that were flown there & participated in the takeover, otherwise they would all wear their insignia.
    The Russian army has been in Crimea for about 300 years, just for your education.
    u don't need to educate me- the BSF was also there for as long.
    Today, there r partially manned Russian army units in Donbass, as the video said,
    that will be brought to strength when the time comes.
    Those DPR/LPR were organized & directed by Moscow from the beginning, & their top leadership r RF citizens.
    Russia is allegedly reinforcing the DPR and LPR People's Militia units by sending additional self-propelled artillery mounts and infantry fighting vehicles to the front line. This was reported in the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. Moreover, according to her information, in the conflict zone in the east of the country, there is an increase in the number of sniper pairs with whom regular servicemen of the RF Armed Forces conduct classes. No less concern of Ukrainian military intelligence officers is caused by the flights of the crews of the bomber regiment of the Western Military District at the recently reconstructed and modernized airfield Baltimore near Voronezh, where a dozen Su-34 fighter-bombers have been relocated.
    https://youtu.be/mWsz5BN8Wng


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:44 am

    true, but they r involved in the Donbass, a localized conflict, intentionally kept as at a low intensity level.

    So you and others keep claiming but without any evidence you are just talking shit.

    This conflict is about Ukrainians wanting to speak Russian because they speak Russian and have never been forced to speak Ukrainian before... till now.

    Now in any conflict weapons and equipment are bought on the black market... a Ukrainian with an AK-74 is no more evidence of Russian INTERVENTION than a Ukrainian with a Javelin is evidence of US forces fighting side by side with Kievs SS units.

    Personally if I was Putin I would say they are not supporting the Donbass freedom fighters, but with all these accusations that it is actually Russian forces holding back Kievs nazis and without them the conflict would not exist, that perhaps they should get involved and start supplying weapons and equipment to these people being murdered by supposedly their own government because of a stupid and illegal law that Kiev is trying to impose.

    No democracy on the planet dictates to its people what language it may speak at the risk of being fined...

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:00 am

    Besides restored museum tanks, looted armories, & captured arms, there r many old Soviet weapons as well as those never exported/used by Ukr. forces, which would req. long training to operate, & newer Russian examples, incl. EW systems & now allegedly the Grad-Ks that r manned by "volunteers", actually detached active duty Russian mil. contractors:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_used_by_separatist_forces_of_the_war_in_Donbas
    https://armamentresearch.com/Uploads/Research%20Report%20No.%203%20-%20Raising%20Red%20Flags.pdf
    Don't tell me they could buy these:
    https://censor.net/en/video_news/319732/russian_special_forces_in_luhansk_so_called_insurgents_armed_with_as_val_assault_rifles_the_weapon_used

    No democracy on the planet dictates to its people what language it may speak at the risk of being fined...
    I agree that forced Ukrainianization antagonized many in the East & South; however, Kiev is run by nationalists, not democrats, no matter what they say about being a(n aspired) democracy, just like Quebec is run by French Canadian nationalists that don't allow street & road signs in English, while the rest of Canada has bilingual signs.  
    So, even a democracy can have areas where undemocratic practices hold sway.
    I could also mention Japan with her Ainus & Koreans & Spain with her Basques & Catalans.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:25 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:18 am

    AS and VSS rifles have been standard equipment for Russian recon forces since the 1980s, they likely had them in local stores or bought them on the black market.

    I agree that forced Ukrainianization antagonized many in the East & South; however, Kiev is run by nationalists, not democrats, no matter what they say about being a(n aspired) democracy,

    Pretty sure it is not the law itself that has created the problem.... rather the shelling and bombing of the people in the region for choosing not to comply.

    Right now there is a huge drive in New Zealand to learn Maori. I personally am not going to bother because I think it is pointless to take the time to learn a language where every speaker of that language also speaks English, and it is spoken in no other country on the planet. I think of language as communication, they think of it as saving history or some such rubbish.

    So, even a democracy can have areas where undemocratic practices hold sway.

    Do people who don't comply with the law get locked in buildings and burned to death?

    Still in New Zealand or Canada there are no calls for people not interested in speaking specific languages to be murdered by burning the building they are in or shelling their homes and businesses.

    Hilarious that the pro democracy west supports such war crimes, how many western countries have invaded or bombed a country for less?

    I could also mention Japan with her Ainus & Koreans & Spain with her Basques & Catalans.

    Spain arrests them and puts them in jail but does it shell regions and bomb them with their air force.... does it burn down buildings with people inside and shoot people trying to escape the flames so they burn to death?

    And if they did and a neighbouring country chose to help those people... would the west go apeshit about it?

    Why are Russian speaking Ukrainians expendable.... cannon fodder..... terrorists... while muslims in Myanmar and China innocent victims of cruel dictatorships that need to be saved?

    The amusing thing is that it was a situation the west created for itself... Russia isn't fuelling this.... they are just stopping the genocide that Kiev would like to perpetrate on these civilians if it could get the chance.

    These people just want to speak Russian, they don't consider themselves Russian and don't want to join the Russian Federation, but they will obviously take the protection of Russian citizenship... imagine if Kiev got their way and went in and called them all terrorists... they could execute the Ukrainian citizens for that.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


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    Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine - Page 7 Empty Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:35 am

    [quote="GarryB"]
    AS and VSS rifles have been standard equipment for Russian recon forces since the 1980s, they likely had them in local stores or bought them on the black market.
    then why it wasn't even used by Ukr. mil.? could they buy those burned Russian T-72s too that Ukr. army never used? Or UAVs produced only in Russia? Get real!
    I agree that forced Ukrainianization antagonized many in the East & South; however, Kiev is run by nationalists, not democrats, no matter what they say about being a(n aspired) democracy,
    Pretty sure it is not the law itself that has created the problem.... rather the shelling and bombing of the people in the region for choosing not to comply.
    it started from them declaring DPR/LPR (with Moscow's hand in it) after that infamous law was passed; btw Russia bombed Grozny with a lot more casualties among mostly civilian Russians + some Chechens.
    I think of language as communication, they think of it as saving history or some such rubbish.
    any language is unique with many words, expressions, concepts, & connotations with no counterparts in other languages; it carries a culture with it; when it dies, a big part of its parent culture dies with it too.
    So, even a democracy can have areas where undemocratic practices hold sway.
    Do people who don't comply with the law get locked in buildings and burned to death?
    if it was done by security forces/militants, they didn't comply with other things-otherwise they would've been just fined or denied service. On many occasions, even Poroshenko & Zelensky switched to Russian, & nothing happened to them. Those considered rebels get treated accordingly.
    Still in New Zealand or Canada there are no calls for people not interested in speaking specific languages to be murdered by burning the building they are in or shelling their homes and businesses.
    but if they were separatists, I'm sure their opponents would hunt them down. In the US Civil War, Sothern secessionists were mercilessly suppressed, with property burning & other atrocities.
    I could also mention Japan with her Ainus & Koreans & Spain with her Basques & Catalans.
    Spain arrests them and puts them in jail but does it shell regions and bomb them with their air force.... does it burn down buildings with people inside and shoot people trying to escape the flames so they burn to death?
    Some peoples r more barbaric than others. Certainly the Spaniards progressed since the time of the Conquistadores, but don't expect the Slavs to behave the same way as W. Europeans. They were killing each other for as long as they existed, even before coming to E. Europe; to stop it, they invited the Varyags (Vikings) of what is now Sweden to rule over them. Later, the Mongols kept them all on a short leash, with no unauthorized killing allowed.
    Why are Russian speaking Ukrainians expendable.... cannon fodder..... terrorists... while muslims in Myanmar and China innocent victims of cruel dictatorships that need to be saved?
    who cares about Serbs or Russians, yesterday's Communist enemies & Orthodox Christians that lost in the Cold War?
    OTH, the issue of Muslims in Myanmar and China can be used, just like those in Afghanistan were against the USSR.
    Russia isn't fuelling this.... they are just stopping the genocide that Kiev would like to perpetrate on these civilians if it could get the chance.
    There r many ethnic Russians in the Ukr. forces ready to fight against any invader,
    even if they hate the regime in Kiev.
    These people just want to speak Russian, they don't consider themselves Russian and don't want to join the Russian Federation,..
    many do want to be in the RF- it's not all clear cut there. Tribalism is alive in any big region. Otherwise, they wouldn't have 2 People's Republics instead of 1.

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