The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

magnumcromagnon wrote:Ever wonder how Russophobic British society can be? Well just take a gander:

Regular wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:2015-05-11 - Large Column of US Military Vehicles heading toward #Lugansk

Good, the NAF can always use more vehicles. They should send an official letter to the State Department thanking them for this generous gesture.

And maybe ask for some M1 Abrams since there is no doubt that the M1s are no longer the most advanced and best tank as of a few months now. Hell, while the NAF is at it, they may as well ask for some F-22s and/or F-35 seeing as they aren't the most advanced fighters anymore too seeing as the Novorossiyan Air Force needs some functional warplanes.

M1 Abrams were most advanced tanks in service.... decades ago... I would give this title to Leo 2a6. But yeah, Armata looks like totally different tier tank anyways, and most likely it will have more mature design, but i digress
Go Ukraine, use Your humvees for logistics as they are less effective than domestic Ukrainian vehicles

Werewolf wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Neutrality wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:2015-05-11 - Large Column of US Military Vehicles heading toward #Lugansk

Good, the NAF can always use more vehicles. They should send an official letter to the State Department thanking them for this generous gesture.

And maybe ask for some M1 Abrams since there is no doubt that the M1s are no longer the most advanced and best tank as of a few months now. Hell, while the NAF is at it, they may as well ask for some F-22s and/or F-35 seeing as they aren't the most advanced fighters anymore too seeing as the Novorossiyan Air Force needs some functional warplanes.

There was not a single day where M1 Abrams was ever the best nor most advanced tanks. The entire concept of M1 lost against Leopard 2 and they were just on par with T-72B and T-80U in their days while today i will take anyday Leopard2A6, T-90A,T-90MS, Merkawa Mk4 or ZTZ-99A2 over any version of M1.

Plenty of people in da free west have a mindset that the mighty Abrams was the best tank that the world has ever seen and will see. Arguing with them is pointless as y'all might expect. Strangely enough, seeing so many stories all over the free and unbiased press about the new Armata seems to have deflated their own rhetoric. Now they are waiting for the already outdated M1A3 to come out. Wink

Werewolf wrote:

Plenty of people in da free west have a mindset that the mighty Abrams was the best tank that the world has ever seen and will see. Arguing with them is pointless as y'all might expect. Strangely enough, seeing so many stories all over the free and unbiased press about the new Armata seems to have deflated their own rhetoric. Now they are waiting for the already outdated M1A3 to come out. Wink

When they crap out M1A3 they still will proclaim it is most innovative and best tank in the world...fanboyism little care for facts that most technology and innovations for tanks were arleady implemented on soviet tanks in 80's, but when american tanks recieve a fraction of such technologies in past 5 years it's somehow the most advanced technology and innovations and stupid russians can't do so...

Vann7 wrote:Any knows if their next M1A3 will have autoloader?  


In other news.. it seems the Ukrainians volunteer battallions have been
caught with their pants down in Donetsk using Rebels uniform.. one of them was killed
and the other arrested.  For sure they were preparing a false flag event.. like murdering
civilians with the uniform.. record all in camera .. and later US,Canada and Baltic States use the false flag to not only to pressure Europe to keep sanctions on Russia but start a new round of them..  



However is interesting that ViCE even though reported things fairly ,did not mentioned
anything about why the Ukrainians were using pro Russia uniforms and what they were doing
in Rebels controlled zones..


Honestly im surprised we are not seeing more false flags events at the level of the malasyian plane. Is hard to do one when Rebels zones are well monitored and the civilian plane trick no longer will work , perhaps they will try to target another civilian bus.. and later say Rebels did it.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Erk wrote:

higurashihougi wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Some more humor from everyone's favorite idiot-savant    :

Bill Maher to Kasparov: Shut up Garry, Wake Me Up When Putin Takes Poland!

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/bill-maher-kasparov-shut-garry-wake-me-when-putin-takes-poland/ri6656

Oh yeah, tks for the link. Maher is my favorite political comedian.

Even the U.S. people can't fathom the idiocy of Kasparov.

Omg Kasparov is so dry and out of touch it sad. You have to be pretty nuts to think Putin is going to invade Poland, NATO would have to attack first for something like that to happen.

How to describe Kasparov:

Werewolf wrote:Vice news does not report anything fairly, it is FOX News branch, it is just more subtle propaganda but such shit like "Russian Roulette" already tells you their intentions.

Vann7 wrote:Any knows if their next M1A3 will have autoloader?  

antikor.com.ua wrote:Armed Battalion "Donbass" invaded pensionnat "Svetlana" SOEs "Makeevugol" in the village Melekino Donetsk region. Security recreation refused to let representatives of the battalion, citing a decision that has not been instructed to superiors. Having been refused one of the soldiers with a crowbar and broke the lock on the front gate that would have to "check for the presence of the separatists." One of the guards took off the moment of intrusion on a mobile phone.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:......................
Destroying monkey model tanks that are a generation or two behind and with untrained crews is definitely good PR.

Let the world think that the M1 Abrams will be the best and most sophisticated tank there is. If worse ever comes to pass (I really do hope it doesn't), one thing I will be looking forward to is the nasty shock when tanks like the T-72B3 will turn out to be nothing like the T-72M1s they fought before.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:
Kyiv not to receive visa liberalization with EU at Riga summit, EU Commission confirms

KYIV, May 9 /Ukrinform/. The European Commission has stated that neither Ukraine nor Georgia will get visa-free travel to the EU's Schengen zone at the Riga Eastern Partnership Summit later this month.

http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/kyiv_not_to_receive_visa_liberalization_with_eu_at_riga_summit_eu_commission_confirms_331255

"postponed until end of 2015"

Werewolf wrote:Since we already mentioning tanks in this thread let me throw this in.

The Ukropian propaganda and list of best tanks guess which is on No.1




BTW, they are calling a T-90MS Armata and placing it on 4.

PapaDragon wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:......................
Destroying monkey model tanks that are a generation or two behind and with untrained crews is definitely good PR.

Let the world think that the M1 Abrams will be the best and most sophisticated tank there is. If worse ever comes to pass (I really do hope it doesn't), one thing I will be looking forward to is the nasty shock when tanks like the T-72B3 will turn out to be nothing like the T-72M1s they fought before.

Off topic, but the funny part about Desert Storm and T-72s is that most Iraqi tanks WERE NOT T-72s at all.
Yes they had some T-72s that were way past their expiration date they got from Poland. (accurate gun range was 100 meters due to wear and tear!!!)

All other tanks were either T-55s or locally manufactured T-72 knockoff "Lion of Babylon".

So all US army managed to do was to prove that they can Zerg-rush and defeat Iraqi made tanks with untrained crews. But that did not stop them from getting their ego inflated. I mean, why solve problems at home when you can waste time and (someone else's) money abroad...

Remember their 1999 attack on Serbia fiasco? They were unable to overcome radars from the 60's and SAMs from the 50's.

Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the Soviet Union proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance.

Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history, preventing Hitler’s pact with Stalin which gave him free rein to go to war with Germany’s other neighbours.

The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.

The new documents, copies of which have been seen by The Sunday Telegraph, show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin’s generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.

But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer, made on August 15, 1939. Instead, Stalin turned to Germany, signing the notorious non-aggression treaty with Hitler barely a week later.

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, named after the foreign secretaries of the two countries, came on August 23 - just a week before Nazi Germany attacked Poland, thereby sparking the outbreak of the war. But it would never have happened if Stalin’s offer of a western alliance had been accepted, according to retired Russian foreign intelligence service Major General Lev Sotskov, who sorted the 700 pages of declassified documents.

“This was the final chance to slay the wolf, even after [British Conservative prime minister Neville] Chamberlain and the French had given up Czechoslovakia to German aggression the previous year in the Munich Agreement,” said Gen Sotskov, 75.

The Soviet offer - made by war minister Marshall Klementi Voroshilov and Red Army chief of general staff Boris Shaposhnikov - would have put up to 120 infantry divisions (each with some 19,000 troops), 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 heavy artillery pieces, 9,500 tanks and up to 5,500 fighter aircraft and bombers on Germany’s borders in the event of war in the west, declassified minutes of the meeting show.

But Admiral Sir Reginald Drax, who lead the British delegation, told his Soviet counterparts that he authorised only to talk, not to make deals.

“Had the British, French and their European ally Poland, taken this offer seriously then together we could have put some 300 or more divisions into the field on two fronts against Germany - double the number Hitler had at the time,” said Gen Sotskov, who joined the Soviet intelligence service in 1956. “This was a chance to save the world or at least stop the wolf in its tracks.”

When asked what forces Britain itself could deploy in the west against possible Nazi aggression, Admiral Drax said there were just 16 combat ready divisions, leaving the Soviets bewildered by Britain’s lack of preparation for the looming conflict.

The Soviet attempt to secure an anti-Nazi alliance involving the British and the French is well known. But the extent to which Moscow was prepared to go has never before been revealed.

Simon Sebag Montefiore, best selling author of Young Stalin and Stalin: The Court of The Red Tsar, said it was apparent there were details in the declassified documents that were not known to western historians.

“The detail of Stalin’s offer underlines what is known; that the British and French may have lost a colossal opportunity in 1939 to prevent the German aggression which unleashed the Second World War. It shows that Stalin may have been more serious than we realised in offering this alliance.”

Professor Donald Cameron Watt, author of How War Came - widely seen as the definitive account of the last 12 months before war began - said the details were new, but said he was sceptical about the claim that they were spelled out during the meetings.

“There was no mention of this in any of the three contemporaneous diaries, two British and one French - including that of Drax,” he said. “I don’t myself believe the Russians were serious.”

The declassified archives - which cover the period from early 1938 until the outbreak of war in September 1939 - reveal that the Kremlin had known of the unprecedented pressure Britain and France put on Czechoslovakia to appease Hitler by surrendering the ethnic German Sudetenland region in 1938.

“At every stage of the appeasement process, from the earliest top secret meetings between the British and French, we understood exactly and in detail what was going on,” Gen Sotskov said.

“It was clear that appeasement would not stop with Czechoslovakia’s surrender of the Sudetenland and that neither the British nor the French would lift a finger when Hitler dismembered the rest of the country.”

Stalin’s sources, Gen Sotskov says, were Soviet foreign intelligence agents in Europe, but not London. “The documents do not reveal precisely who the agents were, but they were probably in Paris or Rome.”

Shortly before the notorious Munich Agreement of 1938 - in which Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister, effectively gave Hitler the go-ahead to annexe the Sudetenland - Czechoslovakia’s President Eduard Benes was told in no uncertain terms not to invoke his country’s military treaty with the Soviet Union in the face of further German aggression.

“Chamberlain knew that Czechoslovakia had been given up for lost the day he returned from Munich in September 1938 waving a piece of paper with Hitler’s signature on it,” Gen Sotksov said.

The top secret discussions between the Anglo-French military delegation and the Soviets in August 1939 - five months after the Nazis marched into Czechoslovakia - suggest both desperation and impotence of the western powers in the face of Nazi aggression.

Poland, whose territory the vast Russian army would have had to cross to confront Germany, was firmly against such an alliance. Britain was doubtful about the efficacy of any Soviet forces because only the previous year, Stalin had purged thousands of top Red Army commanders.

The documents will be used by Russian historians to help explain and justify Stalin’s controversial pact with Hitler, which remains infamous as an example of diplomatic expediency.

“It was clear that the Soviet Union stood alone and had to turn to Germany and sign a non-aggression pact to gain some time to prepare ourselves for the conflict that was clearly coming,” said Gen Sotskov.

A desperate attempt by the French on August 21 to revive the talks was rebuffed, as secret Soviet-Nazi talks were already well advanced.

It was only two years later, following Hitler’s Blitzkreig attack on Russia in June 1941, that the alliance with the West which Stalin had sought finally came about - by which time France, Poland and much of the rest of Europe were already under German occupation.

PapaDragon wrote:Here is something for you guys to refute Ribbentrop-Molotov argument from Westronkians next time you get into argument with them.
Original article is from 2008. but, of course, it is routinely ignored (can't have facts interfering with the propaganda now, can we)

Stalin Offered to Send a Million Troops to Stop Hitler If Britain and France Agreed to Anti-Nazi Pact

Regular wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Since we already mentioning tanks in this thread let me throw this in.

The Ukropian propaganda and list of best tanks guess which is on No.1




BTW, they are calling a T-90MS Armata and placing it on 4.

Thanks for the laugh