The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

Porkyshenko showed a series of cases that are ultimate proof and evidence of russian involvement.

Any sitrep, anyone?

The pocket is finally physically closed.

Time to vaporize the pocket with mass rocket arty and shelling. That pocket has to cease to become a factor in the shortest time possible.
NAF needs to free up its forces and then move onto other objectives.

flamming_python wrote:Time to vaporize the pocket with mass rocket arty and shelling. That pocket has to cease to become a factor in the shortest time possible.
NAF needs to free up its forces and then move onto other objectives.

A number of people claim that the NAF is trying to use propaganda war against surrounded Ukie troops, and is trying to seperate Ukie native people who do not want to fight from mecenaries and facist troops who need to be killed ASAP... and that is one of the reason for not using excessive firepower at the pocket.

If they are indeed Russia, IMHO that those passports belongs to the Russian Journalists & citizen currently held in detention by Kiev Junta...

higurashihougi wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Time to vaporize the pocket with mass rocket arty and shelling. That pocket has to cease to become a factor in the shortest time possible.
NAF needs to free up its forces and then move onto other objectives.

A number of people claim that the NAF is trying to use propaganda war against surrounded Ukie troops, and is trying to seperate Ukie native people who do not want to fight from mecenaries and facist troops who need to be killed ASAP... and that is one of the reason for not using excessive firepower at the pocket.

Masses of artillery barrages will work wonders in the surrender department, more so than any propaganda. It is brutal but such is war.

However perhaps NAF psy-ops and slogans, Zakhorchenko's circus with POWs and their parents are all starting to bear fruit. We can see the protests against mobilization in many villages. So perhaps these tactics do have a place.

Check this @TR1 /F-15E  ,if you want to know the truth..
What France Government ,and leadership is saying..

Marine Le Pen

Marine Le Pen....
"European capitals do not have the wisdom to refuse to be dependent on US positions on Ukraine," Le Pen told French journalists on Sunday.

"Regarding Ukraine, we behave like American lackeys," she said, before warning that “the aim of the Americans is to start a war in Europe to push NATO to the Russian border."

In September, she told Le Monde that the ongoing crisis in Ukraine is “all the European Union’s fault,” saying Brussels had “blackmailed the country to choose between Europe and Russia.”

In June, she similarly told RT’s Sophie Shevardnadze that there were “no independent states left in Europe,” saying many of their foreign policy mistakes in recent times had been made “under Washington’s influence.”

French Prime minister Francois Fillon

Fillon accused the US of suffering from “blindness” and an oversimplified approach to reality, which saw them constantly attempting to “solve all problems by force.”
"The Americans have made one mistake after another and today they have simply been discredited,” said Fillon.
“The West is trying to imagine today Russia as a threat to the whole world, while deliberately forgetting that Russia is a large and truly a great country, not to mention a nuclear power,” he said.

“Humiliating Russia is simply unacceptable.”

former French President Nicolas Sarkozy  (even a former CIA asset defend Russia )

Europe was part of “a common civilization with Russia,” saying they needed to avoid conflict on the continent.
“The interests of the Americans with the Russians are not the interests of Europe and Russia,” he said, adding that “we do not want the revival of a Cold War between Europe and Russia.”

“The interests of the Americans with the Russians are not the interests of Europe and Russia,” he said, adding that “we do not want the revival of a Cold War between Europe and Russia.”

here is the full report.. released today!  Of recent comments by France leadership.

http://rt.com/news/230503-le-pen-us-lackey/


Basically Americans are trying to repeat what they did in World war 2.. is alliance with UK and Jews ...
the first ..
1) provoke a war a reason for war in Europe..by isolating Germany/hitler economy.. to bankrupt it..
2) Later they use Poland to to attack Germany minorities in eastern prusia and in their occupied territories by Poland. EXACTLY as Kiev are doing now with Eastern Ukraine.. Bombing the minorities of Ethnic Russians to provoke Russian into a war.
3)After Germany is forced to fight back the anglozionist powers.. Americans wait All Europe and UK destroyed ,
and Germany defeated in the eastern front and in full retreat to Germany.. to invade Europe.
4)Later they take all the credit for "winning the war" and being the only nation not invaded and not touched and not destroyed. their economy rocket to heaven.. by selling to Europe everything they needed. and rebuilding it.
Japan Car industry too..was bombed, So only Americans cars are sold in the world in that period.

The American government wants to see Europe nearly destroyed to take a full control of it.. and later be able
to take a weakened isolated Russia.. or simply let their own civilians unrest to collapse the nation. Thats the US elite
plans.. and Ukraine is merely playing the role of poland.. useful Idiots ..for helping them create a world empire.

Won't Debaltsevo civilians trapped in the boiler be used as hostages by Ukies?

Kyo wrote:Won't Debaltsevo civilians trapped in the boiler be used as hostages by Ukies?

Correct.. and the latest reports are that the right sector /criminals are mining the civilians zones ,
so that civilians are killed if NAF forces enter the cauldron.. So we are speaking about a
new Beslan school hostage crisis.. but now on an entire city..

Before NOVO forces enter the city.. Russia should demand OSCE and UN to coordinate for civilians to leave the fighting zones if they desire it.. and to verify the reports of Cities with residential houses being mined. The evacuation that supposedly was going to happen ,
didn't happened because the american sponsored terrorist army,began to shoot at civilians buses . So effectively the kiev Militia are using civilians as human shields..

Vann7 wrote:

Kyo wrote:Won't Debaltsevo civilians trapped in the boiler be used as hostages by Ukies?

Correct.. and the latest reports are that the right sector /criminals are mining the civilians zones ,
so that civilians are killed if NAF forces enter the cauldron.. So we are speaking about a
new Beslan school hostage crisis.. but now on an entire city..

Before NOVO forces enter the city.. Russia should demand OSCE and UN to coordinate for civilians to leave the fighting zones if they desire it.. and to verify the reports of Cities with residential houses being mined. The evacuation that supposedly was going to happen ,
didn't happened because the american sponsored terrorist army,began to shoot at civilians buses . So effectively the kiev Militia are using civilians as human shields..

How many civilians are there and why did they not leave the city when they had the chance?

ahmedfire wrote:It's easy to predict something that you already set it up !

Yep.. is not really a prediction.. but more like an agenda ..
Is easy to predict that Ukraine will turn to west if they have well elaborated plans to collapse
Russia economy.. all they need in those 15 years is to get the right politicians in Europe.
Because the US gov..have in their payroll ukraine oligarchs anti-Russia and were using US congress money since that time.. to spread Rusophobia in Ukraine.. then it was easy to predict
that Russia will never be able to match the funding that USA give to Ukraine and to compete in
influence either..  So is not a prediction.. at all.. but more like saying this is what should happen
if we continue doing the things we are doing..

This also goes to my point , that one of the major problems that Russia have.. is that they
oppose United States ,that is a super power ,super influential nation.. only by boosting its army
and military capabilities.. and thats completely wrong. Russia needs to compete with USA in everything or at least the most important things if they ever wants to be taken seriously in Europe..  Lavrov in munich main complain was that Europe does not take Russia seriously their
interest.. and they are the only ones to blame for that.  Because if they want to be taken seriously they need to become more than a cheap Gas station for Europe. Europe does not need
Russian weapons , only its Gas.. and Russia needs to become much more developed nation..
and compete more in technology for Business and public use.. Russia needs to compete against US mayor BUsiness.. like Microsoft , Apple ,Intel ,AMD .luxury racing cars ..a competitive entertainment industry. And needs to become more dynamic than NASA in space.. that is always showing the world new images of what they are doing in space. doing more missions ,not just a taxi to the ISS.  in other words.. Russia needs to learn how to not only become more developed nation but to advertise them better..  in other words Russia needs to become a real alternative to USA.. if they want to be taken seriously..   And Russian people will never be happy becoming allies with undeveloped Asians..because they are too different people than them.. different religion and culture.

So Russia could defeat United States without firing a single shot ,by just becoming a much more
competitive nation in technology ..at least in the most important things that everyone likes..
I just hope the kremlin open their eyes and see that their military spending is not going to end the conflict with USA..  until they become a real alternative to them..  Russia don't need to
produce everything that US produce.. Don't need to become another food powerhouse with popular restaurants chains..or clothing ,but at least compete in the things that are more attractive and more prestigious for most people.

Vann, if I were you, I wouldnt talk about things you dont understand. Once again, Russia makes plenty of goods, but western companies have not and will not allow those products to be sold in the west. You can find theor products in other none western countries, but not in west.

There is a reason why Lada granta is not found anywhere else other than Russia or third countries, and it is a solid vehicle. Reason why you dont see Russian RFID or other tech in west but you do in third countries. Heck, Russia ends up export licensing to another company/country just to kinda enter their market, like Modules Matrix core that Fujitsu now has license. Because its Russian, they or anyone else in west wouldnt buy it. Russian agricultural equipment and construction equipment is very attractive in performance and price (performance because they own western assets and capabilities) yet you still wont find it in the west.

Best example is power machines and Rosatom. No western country is now allowing their nuclear tech because of sanctions. Power machines is one the the worlds largest manufacturer of energy equipment like turbines and generators - not found in west.

All west is interested is their resources, not their competition. You really think they will allow competition from someone they wont get money from, compared to an EU asset? Get real vann and start using your head. You were already horrendsly wrong about Kudrin too.....

Want a recent example? Kalashnikov brand. Competitive and sells well in US. US banned it and now a company in US is making their own AK's and Saigas with even the Kalashnikov brand name and wont five royalties. They said they would do it without Russian permission and all Kalashnikov can do is so called approve it even though they are trying to save face over this clear abuse from a US company (at this point, they need to make unlicensed copies of colt products), even chinese company has a paid license to produce ak clones.

Another one is T-Platforms. They were blacklisted by US goverent because they started to get contracts in US to built supercomputers.

par far wrote:

How many civilians are there and why did they not leave the city when they had the chance?

Probably they could not be evacuated in time.. or had no place to go.. or no car.. etc..
When the Novo fighters lose Slavyansk and retreat.. many Donetsk and Lugansk cities became
under the control of kiev.

higurashihougi wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Time to vaporize the pocket with mass rocket arty and shelling. That pocket has to cease to become a factor in the shortest time possible.
NAF needs to free up its forces and then move onto other objectives.

A number of people claim that the NAF is trying to use propaganda war against surrounded Ukie troops, and is trying to seperate Ukie native people who do not want to fight from mecenaries and facist troops who need to be killed ASAP... and that is one of the reason for not using excessive firepower at the pocket.

both are valid points, in the potential situation of the Kiev receiving full-fledged millitary hardware and more NATO Rent-a-killer's its better to have full tactical availabillity against Kiev's remaining and demoralised forces to maintain battlefield momentum like Donetsk/Lugansk has now over Kiev.

but also trying to sort them out from the real assholes deserving nothing than a bullet and people just caught up into it is an valid strategy if there is time for it, and can result in broader public support in the long run. but hey, from my computer on this end im practically blind of the battlefield situation so i cant judge either way.

its just an matter of time tough, im sure Kiev tried. but in terms of millitary potential they are defeated. what Kiev is doing now is just delaying the inevitable before Porky and the rest of his band of nazi-misfits have to flee to the U.S and share the bench with fellow U.S monkey's like Shakaashvilli.

and concerning EU countries,...well the French seem to be the most vocal about "U.S warmongering in Europe". from people like Le Pen, Sarkozy and other politicians. talk is one thing, but the U.S does not listen to "reasoning" and only thing they understand is when Europe orders the closing of U.S bases and demand the U.S troops leave europe, under threat of an gun if it has to.

i stopped viewing the americans as "allies" and more as "occupiers" a long time ago .

sepheronx wrote:
Best example is power machines and Rosatom. No western country is now allowing their nuclear tech because of sanctions. Power machines is one the the worlds largest manufacturer of energy equipment like turbines and generators - not found in west.

All west is interested is their resources, not their competition. You really think they will allow competition from someone they wont get money from, compared to an EU asset? Get real vann and start using your head. You were already horrendsly wrong about Kudrin too.....

Russia problem is a problem of influence.. is not good enough to make Europe take
Russia seriously.  Rosatom is not an attractive company for civilians , but an attractive company
for Countries .. is a completely different thing..  Let say for example.. to imagine that only USA and Russia are the only nations on the world.. that produce technology and no other..And RUssia produce technology for saving energy..(Rosatom),  while USA produce technology for entertainment and making your life more fun and easier..  Which country in your opinion will have more influence?  Absolutely USA.  

The problem of Russia is an Influence problem.  More nuclear weapons and more warships will
not make Russia more attractive to Europe. More technology and more entertainment will do.
yes im aware of the business monopoly of USA.. with Europe and the problem that Russia will face in selling cars there. .

The point is that Europe choose to be colonies of USA.. for the simply reason that US business are very attractive to them.. and there is no alternative to them..Russia is not a real alternative to Intel or Microsoft or their Entertainment Industry.then you have the retail food chains of US ,that everyone likes..then american have the movie industry and music industry that everyone likes.. do i need to continue? So Europe have no choice but to choose US over Russia.. even if that means becoming colonies and even if that means damaging their own economies.  

Is influence.. problem .. If Europeans saw Russian Business as a real alternative to USA major business..You can be sure that americans will be ditched overnight.. You only have to see at former soviet states.. they all want to be close to Europe and not Russia. Even Russian allies like latin america.. prefer European products over Russian ones..  Even anti american nations like IRAN.. likes americans products.. and because that technology is banned for IRAN ,they do everything possible to get american technology through China..is an influence problem.. that Russia have.. that is not yet there seen as a real alternative to USA.

The good news is that RUssia do have the capabilities to become a real alternative to US..
Probably the only nation in the world. the bad news is that its leaders do not get it.. and continue spending so much in nuclear weapons and warships as if that will make them safer from the way that Americans attack Russia by proxy.  Russia defense budget is $70 billions which is very hight ,third largest in the world..  but their budget for ROscosmos just $5billions.
with in my opinion should be reversed. and the largest budget goes to space program and not a single more nuke developed.

and their spending in developing their semiconductor industry and entertainment and business industry even less.  they are making almost the same mistakes of soviets of countering USA with military power.. and not by becoming a more developed modern nation.

So Russia can be very competitive in Business yes.. Rosatom ,and antec are very attractive..but not very attractive for the average civilian..  Russia lack of developed strong allies ,is not USA fault.. but Russia fault.  Europe just pick their best interest.. and Russia does not influence them enough (not even close) to ditch the criminal government of USA . Once Russia becomes areal alternative to USA things will change.. But influencing Europe with just cheap energy or nuclear reactors and nothing else is wrong.  Their space program is the only thing Russia have that really influence the average society in the west..but unfortunately they do not invest there as needed to take the role of not just of a competitive nation.. but as the world leader. And become the main source of information about Space.  US will continue dominating the world and
giving headaches to Russia until... they either collapse its economy and or Russia becomes a more influential nation. Because doesn't look like US economy will collapse anytime soon.. The best thing for Russia is to become much more influential.. Had Russia was more influential will not have the problem in Ukraine they have today.. of more than half the nation wanting to join the euro including Yakunovych . and will have been very hard for USA to influence Ukrainians.  
other than the minority of banderas.  

Is all about influence , Russia needs to become more influential and more deadlier weapons
will not give them that.

So, the quoter of Ukrainian army is now encircled in Debaltsevo. This is great.

Vann7 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
Best example is power machines and Rosatom. No western country is now allowing their nuclear tech because of sanctions. Power machines is one the the worlds largest manufacturer of energy equipment like turbines and generators - not found in west.

All west is interested is their resources, not their competition. You really think they will allow competition from someone they wont get money from, compared to an EU asset? Get real vann and start using your head. You were already horrendsly wrong about Kudrin too.....

Russia problem is a problem of influence.. is not good enough to make Europe take
Russia seriously.  Rosatom is not an attractive company for civilians , but an attractive company
for Countries .. is a completely different thing..  Let say for example.. to imagine that only USA and Russia are the only nations on the world.. that produce technology and no other..And RUssia produce technology for saving energy..(Rosatom),  while USA produce technology for entertainment and making your life more fun and easier..  Which country in your opinion will have more influence?  Absolutely USA.  

The problem of Russia is an Influence problem.  More nuclear weapons and more warships will
not make Russia more attractive to Europe. More technology and more entertainment will do.
yes im aware of the business monopoly of USA.. with Europe and the problem that Russia will face in selling cars there. .

The point is that Europe choose to be colonies of USA.. for the simply reason that US business are very attractive to them.. and there is no alternative to them..Russia is not a real alternative to Intel or Microsoft or their Entertainment Industry.then you have the retail food chains of US ,that everyone likes.. So Europe have no choice but to choose US over Russia.. even if that means becoming colonies.  

Is influence.. problem .. If Europeans saw Russian Business as a real alternative of USA..You can be sure.. they will be ditched overnight.. You only have to see at former soviet states..
they all want to be close to Europe and not Russia. Even Russian allies like latin america.. preffer European products over Russian ones..  is an influence problem.. that Russia is not yet
there seen as a real alternative to USA.

The good news is that RUssia do have the capabilities to become a real alternative to US..
the bad news is that its leaders do not get it.. and continue spending so much in nuclear weapons and warships.  Russia defense budget is $70 billions which is very hight ,third largest in the world..  but their budget for ROscosmos just $5billions.  and their spending in developing their semiconductor industry even less.  they are making almost the same mistakes of soviets of countering USA with military power.. and not by becoming a more developed modern nation.

So Russia can be very competitive in Business yes.. Rosatom ,and antec are very attractive..but not very attractive for the average civilian..  Russia lack of developed strong allies ,is not USA fault.. but Russia fault.  Europe just pick their best interest.. and Russia does not influence them enough (not even close) to ditch the criminal government of USA . Once Russia becomes areal alternative to USA things will change.. But influencing Europe with just cheap energy or nuclear reactors and nothing else is wrong.  Their space program is the only thing Russia have that really influence the average society in the west..but unfortunately they do not invest there as needed to take the role of not just of a competitive nation.. but as the world leader. And become the main source of information about Space.

You have made some very good points vann but the thing is that US, using its proganda, has really taken over the EU and this has been the case for the last 70 years. Since the end of WW2, the U.S. has put its evil paws right into Europe. The US companies are good but not as good as everyone claims. Their Hollywood is run by jews and it is mostly anti-anything that jews hate(anti muslim and recently anti Russian). The US is a inflenutal country and they do have some of the best companies (there a lot of Indians, Chinese and Russians working in those companies) they are able to do because of the petro dollar(if it was the petro Rouble then things would be reversed).

I wonder which region's accent is this, new york maybe?
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/battles/us-soldier-caught-on-tape-in-ukraine/4017707827001/

sepheronx wrote:
There is a reason why Lada granta is not found anywhere else other than Russia or third countries, and it is a solid vehicle.

Well in Western Europe You can hardly find a market for current Lada models. £50000 Tesla M car is no 1 seller in Norway. Here in UK where 18 kid who works shitty jobs drive better cars than most of people in Eastern Europe. Here where big money lies. People who can afford to change NEW cars every 2-5 years.
Don't forget You need to provide service for those cars. You need to advertise it. But LADA name is a turd, polish it how much You want.
What Russia could actually do is to build utility vehicles and all that, but then again Germans are very strong there and they already established themselves.

etaepsilonk wrote:I wonder which region's accent is this, new york maybe?
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/battles/us-soldier-caught-on-tape-in-ukraine/4017707827001/

Are You kidding me? US? U wot m8? It's clearly brit accent.

etaepsilonk wrote:I wonder which region's accent is this, new york maybe?
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/battles/us-soldier-caught-on-tape-in-ukraine/4017707827001/

From listening to repeatedly, I am going to take a guess and say the New Englad area in New York because I have seen videos of people from there and I used to watch the NFL and they would do interviews with people from the area and this is kind of how those people talked. Don't quote me for it though.

Regular wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
There is a reason why Lada granta is not found anywhere else other than Russia or third countries, and it is a solid vehicle.

Well in Western Europe You can hardly find a market for current Lada models. £50000 Tesla M car is no 1 seller in Norway. Here in UK where 18 kid who works shitty jobs drive better cars than most of people in Eastern Europe. Here where big money lies. People who can afford to change NEW cars every 2-5 years.
Don't forget You need to provide service for those cars. You need to advertise it. But LADA name is a turd, polish it how much You want.
What Russia could actually do is to build utility vehicles and all that, but then again Germans are very strong there and they already established themselves.

Yeah, because in London Englandstan, they drive crap vehicles with a massive price tag. Landrover? Now tata motors really at extortion prices.

Regular wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
There is a reason why Lada granta is not found anywhere else other than Russia or third countries, and it is a solid vehicle.

Well in Western Europe You can hardly find a market for current Lada models. £50000 Tesla M car is no 1 seller in Norway. Here in UK where 18 kid who works shitty jobs drive better cars than most of people in Eastern Europe. Here where big money lies. People who can afford to change NEW cars every 2-5 years.
Don't forget You need to provide service for those cars. You need to advertise it. But LADA name is a turd, polish it how much You want.
What Russia could actually do is to build utility vehicles and all that, but then again Germans are very strong there and they already established themselves.

Where big money lies? It is where the society is conditioned to take loans after loans and buy stuff on credit card and not on the financial situations and what they actually can afford.

Like the US where over 70% of the population is in debt, like twenty year olds getting a girlfriend and take immidiatley a loan to buy a family house which costs around 400.000 USD, than buying a car that is far over their income so they pay next ten years just for the car and another 40 years as minimum for the house. The same case with everyone who wants to study and higher academic degree to work as something with better paid jobs, they usually get out of universities with 100.000-300.000 USD debts before even starting to work.

This is not where the big money lies, it is where the sneaky and greedy enslaving banksters lie down alot of loans and where literally everything belongs to the banks and which by law can whenever they want to take your house, car, furnishing and whatever you "own" in hard currency or paper like shares.