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    Chinese Science and Technology

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    Robert.V


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    Chinese Science and Technology - Page 3 Empty Re: Chinese Science and Technology

    Post  Robert.V Thu Oct 27, 2022 2:12 pm

    Forget a blockade. China should and has to take Taiwan before it's armed to the teeth and blood for taken it will be much higher.
    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:43 pm

    Exactly. China shouldn't allow itself to sit on Taiwan, like Russia did with Ukraine, as the price of taking over will become much higher.

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:55 am

    Ironically the west rallied around the Ukraine to protect it... talked about it joining the EU and HATO to protect it, sent money and weapons and built bio weapons labs and trained their soldiers which in the end made war inevitable...

    And now they are doing the same with Taiwan and China with the expectation of preventing a war like they claimed they were trying to do in Europe.

    This suggests it will make war between China and Taiwan inevitable... but I think China needs to take steps to separate their economy and culture and future expectations away from the west, because any attack on Taiwan will lead to the same treatment the west is giving to Russia.

    The west creating division and conflict is a real problem for the world, I am just hoping they are stupid enough to start some conflict somewhere where they are confident enough to send their own troops so the victims of their bullshit can do to them what they are doing to other countries.

    When things get really desperate it would not surprise me if the US thinks they could invade Venezuela to seize their oil resources... it seems they wanted to start a war in Ukraine before Russia became too powerful and too independent, and want to do the same with China before their navy becomes too much of a problem for the US Navy.

    China is lacking in anti sub tech and I hope Russia will give them some assistance in that regard...

    I don't think China should invade Taiwan because after you start killing people you claim to be your brothers brainwashed by an enemy (the west) then there is no real going back... Russia got no choice in the matter... that conflict was coming no matter what they did and fortunately they stepped up and sucker punched Kiev before Kiev could do that to the Donbass and Lugansk regions.

    Peace is always the best solution if possible because war is always a terrible waste in lives and equipment and material.

    The best future for China is to have the best military they can afford and to never have to use it.

    The US and the West are broken and have screwed themselves and they want war and chaos because peace means austerity measures for them and they will have coups and rebellions in the west if that happens.

    Maybe this could push China and Russia to work even more closely to find a solution to it.

    The US and the west are forcing the rest of the world to work together and create alternatives to the international organisations and processes that the west currently controls...

    China and Russia should be grateful the west is this stupid to use their power as a weapon because using it as a weapon is destroying its power to control.

    Previous leaders in the west knew how to be subtle and influence, but recent western leaders expect it to operate like a remote control to change channel or raise or lower volume as needed... the EU might put up with that shit by choice, and tiny countries the US and the west can and do crush for disobedience have to conform or suffer like North Korea and Cuba, but Russia and China are big enough to say no and when they say no the rest of the world realises saying no is an option and they wont be isolated and alone internationally if they say no... there are still plenty of countries and people they can trade with and not just survive but also thrive.
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    walle83


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    Chinese Science and Technology - Page 3 Empty Re: Chinese Science and Technology

    Post  walle83 Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I don't think China should invade Taiwan because after you start killing people you claim to be your brothers brainwashed by an enemy (the west) then there is no real going back... Russia got no choice in the matter... that conflict was coming no matter what they did and fortunately they stepped up and sucker punched Kiev before Kiev could do that to the Donbass and Lugansk regions.

    What a load of bull....
    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:01 am

    Of course, the best way to tell an neighbouring country you love them is to bomb the shit out of them and seize their territory.

    Russian invaded Ukraine because a war was going to start whether they started it or not and by starting it they could choose who got to die in large numbers first... it was either going to be the Orcs or the Ukrainians in the Donbass and Lugansk and possibly also those in the Crimea.

    China is smart because China is patient... Taiwan has not done as it has been told since it was created, and as long as they didn't declare independence China was OK with that, but as usual... and in a mirror to the Ukraine, the US is encouraging radicals and extremists to bait the Bear/Dragon... they will either get killed or run away to the west and it will be the bulk of the population that bears the price for this conflict while in both cases the US sits back and shouts that Russia or China are the bad guys in all this...

    All wars are damaging to both sides and should be avoided as much as possible... but not any cost.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:11 pm

    Will China get to fusion first?

    The Sirius Report
    @thesiriusreport
    ·
    14h
    China's Tokamak ran for 403 secs, beating the previous record of 101 secs, in a steady-state high-confinement plasma operation, a key step towards the development of nuclear fusion.

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:33 am

    Extreme success: China is catching up in the microchip race, by Dmitry Migunov for Izvestia. 08.06.2023.

    The Chinese have mastered the production of advanced photolithography machines.

    At the end of 2023, the Chinese company Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (SMEE) will launch the first microchip lithography machine with a 28 nm process technology. For the Chinese semiconductor industry, this is a real breakthrough: lithography has been one of its weak points. Although the new lithographic machines will still be seriously lagging behind the most modern options, the rapid progress is very welcome for the Chinese due to increasing restrictions from foreign suppliers. About the rapid development of the war of chips between China and the United States - in the material of Izvestia.

    Despite the sanctions

    On October 7, 2022, the US administration made a fateful decision to impose unprecedented restrictions on the Chinese semiconductor industry. By design, these were much tougher measures than anything that was introduced against China during the “trade wars” of the Donald Trump administration in 2017-2019. They included a ban on the supply of equipment and software for the production of semiconductors, as well as the recall of employees working directly in Chinese industry firms or trading with them.

    The US itself is an important player in the global microchip industry, but far from the only one: the role of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and the Netherlands is comparable, if not higher. Since last year, the Americans have been working with these countries, trying to get similar measures from them. The results are already there: for example, Japan has introduced quite serious restrictions on the supply of semiconductor industry products . The nuance is that the Japanese themselves do not really like these bans, and they want to export in all cases where possible, while the United States will send something to China only as an exception.

    The US sanctions came amid a breakthrough in China's semiconductor industry itself. In the summer of 2022, it became known that the leader of China's microelectronics, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp (SMIC), was able to master the production of microchips on the 7 nm process technology, that is, only one generation behind the current advanced one. To understand, most modern smartphones, except for the most powerful ones, are produced with 7nm chips, which makes China one of the leaders in the global semiconductor sector.

    But the main problem of China at the moment is not the production of the actual chips, but the "production of means of production" for them. This is an even more monopolized environment than semiconductors as such. Of key importance here are ultraviolet photolithography machines, which apply a pattern to the board. For example, only the Dutch company ASML owns the technology for the production of extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) machines. EUV provides technical processes of 7 nm and less, that is, without it, the production of the most advanced, modern and powerful chips is impossible.

    China has lagged far behind in this sector. The only manufacturer of such machines in the country was the Shanghai SMEE, founded back in 2002. Until recently, the most modern technical process in which the equipment produced by it could work was 90 nm. This process technology was advanced just in 2002-2003. And now, judging by the statements of the Chinese media, she managed to jump through three generations at once. The 28 nm process was considered the most modern in 2010–2011: for example, Russian Elbrus processors are based on 28 nm chips.

    The success is quite large, since the production of lithographic machines is high-tech among high-tech. Chinese experts gaining experience abroad in the 2000s said that foreign manufacturers told them: “Even if we give you all the drawings, you still can’t build a car yourself.” The most advanced EUV cars are made up of 450,000 components, 20 times more than a Formula 1 car. Actually, ASML itself produces only 15% of the number of these parts, the rest is bought on the international market.

    Almost impossible

    The results achieved by SMEE confirm the success of China's semiconductor industrial policy. It dates back to the 2000s, but in the 2010s, as the Chinese economy became more mature and advanced, it became even more accentuated. In 2014, the National Chip Industry Fund was established with $21 billion in government funding. In 2019, amid U.S. sanctions on electronics manufacturer ZTE, Beijing stepped up and added another $35 billion to the fund.

    Colossal amounts of money are helping Chinese manufacturers accomplish the near-impossible, catching up with the overseas microchip industry, which has been in existence for more than half a century and has developed extremely complex competencies . For example, many Chinese chips and related products cost 10 times more than their foreign counterparts for a long time, but subsidies allowed manufacturers to stay afloat and learn how to work. The difference in cost was due to the incomparable "economy of scale", but as the Chinese began to develop their own market, the difference narrowed more and more. This largely offsets the increase in costs as the product becomes more complex.

    In addition, starting in 2019, China began to actively purchase microchips and equipment for their production in reserve: companies operating in this sector noted a huge “non-market” demand from Chinese counterparties, hinting that purchases are made for strategic reasons, and not for profit maximization here and now.

    The United States, in turn, is now trying to fulfill a dual task: to delay (if not stop) the development of the Chinese semiconductor industry and to raise its own, which once led the world market, and now lags far behind - only 12% of global production . To do this, the Joe Biden administration passed the Chips and Science Act, which provides for the allocation of $ 39 billion for the production of semiconductors within the US borders, as well as $ 13 billion for research and development in this area. Thus, America is now also adopting industrial policy, a phrase that was considered a dirty word in economic and managerial circles for a couple of decades.

    Despite comparable amounts, it is worth noting that the difference between the American and Chinese sector development programs is quite significant. The paradox is that the PRC operates in a more decentralized manner: in addition to the Microchip Fund, state support is provided at many levels, including regional and municipal. Thus, Shanghai alone will spend $43 billion on the development of the industry in the next five years.

    Have the restrictions affected

    Only the future will tell the outcome of the chip war, but at this stage, the situation looks like the US sanctions have not done much success in causing unacceptable damage to the Chinese industry. Chinese companies have stocked up on enough equipment and materials to keep them going for a while to "import substitute" key bottlenecks. These latter are slowly but surely beginning to unravel.

    In addition, foreign players - the Dutch and Japanese - are not eager to observe the same strictness in relation to Chinese counterparties as the Americans themselves. In many ways, their profitability is based on the very "economy of scale", and the loss of the Chinese market will deal a severe blow to it. There are also fears that restrictions on the supply of semiconductor equipment to China will only force Beijing to redouble its efforts to create its own production chain.

    In addition, it is worth noting separately that the goal of curtailing China's military power, declared during the introduction of restrictions, is completely meaningless, since defense products require relatively simple microchips, only in rare cases are semiconductors on a manufacturing process less than 90 nm needed. And here China, if it does not have a completely closed production chain, is very close to it, and after a new breakthrough in lithography, it significantly exceeds the required bar.

    https://iz.ru/1554601/dmitrii-migunov/ekstremalnyi-uspekh-kitai-nachal-dogoniat-v-gonke-mikrochipov

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 07, 2023 7:49 am

    They don't learn do they... a country isn't stupid... if you tell it it cannot buy your vegetables it will find someone who will and will learn to grow their own vegetables.... and in this case where the west is trying to cut off China and Russia there is the risk they might grow better vegetables and faster and start selling them to your other customers.

    Going to all the effort of growing you own veges or making your own things often you will realise other people who can't grow their own or make their own are stuck buying from the arse holes who just tried to hurt you by cutting you off... selling your new products to the wests other customers is the best way to repay them for their sanctions in the long term, but in the short term sanction something that will cost them more to replace or can't be replaced.

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    kvs
    kvs


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    Chinese Science and Technology - Page 3 Empty Extreme success: China is catching up in the microchip race

    Post  kvs Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:19 pm

    The NATzO sanctions on Russia are a great thing. They will finally break up the internal sabotage that resulted in Russia's dependence on imports
    of high resolution ICs. There can be no doubt that it was concerted sabotage and dating back to the 1970s. The first IC plants in the USSR
    had mysterious fires that destroyed them. The 1990s obviously worked in killing off Russian IC production and development. The last 20 years
    could have been used to focus on IC production capacity development but instead we had the laissez-faire comprador approach of importing.
    Considering that the Russian government has very strong intervention policies in various production fields, it could have chosen to invest in
    IC production just like China. Instead, we got Kudrin type waffling about markets and shit.

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    Kiko
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    Chinese Science and Technology - Page 3 Empty Huawei deals blow to US sanctions with revolutionary chip developments

    Post  Kiko Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:01 pm

    Huawei deals blow to US sanctions with revolutionary chip developments, 09.04.2023.

    China has developed an advanced seven-nanometer (nm) processor for its latest smartphone, the Huawei Mate 60 Pro, signaling Beijing's progress in a nationwide effort to overcome U.S. attempts to curb its growth, analysts say.

    Huawei's Mate 60 Pro incorporates a new Kirin 9000s chip manufactured by the Chinese company Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp (SMIC), being the first to use the latest 7 nm technology, something that suggests the progress of the Chinese government in its attempt to create a domestic "chip ecosystem".

    "From the point of view of semiconductor process technology, this is the first commercial use of an advanced Chinese process technology node that supports bitcells [integrated static random access memory, SRAM], which opens the door to a fully national advanced SoC [system-on-a-chip] design and manufacturing ecosystem," the TechInsights portal, an authoritative source, highlighted.

    Despite the fact that the US had included both Huawei and SMIC on its blacklist, the Asian country showed that it is capable of producing at least a limited number of chips, approaching the goal of self-sufficiency in the critical field of semiconductors, according to specialists of the portal.
    Shares of Shanghai-listed SMIC rose 6% on Monday, September 4, following the publication of the report, "casting doubt" on the effectiveness of the US-led campaign to block China's access to advanced technologies, the outlet notes.

    The advancement of the Mate 60 "could restore the dynamics of the technological confrontation," since tests conducted by Bloomberg News showed that the Mate 60 Pro is capable of reaching cellular speeds comparable to those of 5G devices such as the latest Apple iPhones.

    Previously, the US had tried to prevent China from gaining access to 14 nm processor technologies, which is about eight years behind the most advanced chips. However, with the introduction of its own 7 nm microchip, the Asian country shows that it is now only five years away from cutting-edge technologies.

    At the moment, the most advanced processors have 4 nm technologies, and it is expected that Apple will soon present the new iPhones with 3 nm processors.

    "This is a very important statement for China. (...) SMIC's technological advances are on an accelerated trajectory and it seems that they have solved the problems affecting the performance in their 7 nm technology," said TechInsights vice president Dan Hutcheson, quoted by Bloomberg.

    Representatives of Huawei and SMIC did not respond to requests for comment on the specifications of the phone since its launch at the end of August 2023. Huawei only commented that the Mate 60 Pro is the "most powerful" Mate device to date, the outlet reports.

    It is unclear how many units of the new device the company intends to produce, but although at the moment Beijing is not able to manufacture semiconductors as economically as other global players, it is taking steps towards creating supplies for its sectors most affected by US sanctions, confirms Bloomberg, considering that "Huawei's progress, and therefore China's, is better than expected".

    Yandex Translate from Spanish

    https://sputniknews.lat/20230904/huawei-asesta-un-golpe-a-las-sanciones-de-eeuu-con-revolucionarios-desarrollos-de-chips--1143334465.html

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    Kiko
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    Chinese Science and Technology - Page 3 Empty Semiconductor and Processors

    Post  Kiko Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:21 pm

    Why China's top chipmaker is causing panic in the U.S. and what Huawei has to do with it, 09.06.2023.

    The release of the Mate 60 Pro phone raises doubts about the effectiveness of US sanctions.

    The latest 5G smartphone from the Chinese company Huawei Technologies has attracted the world's attention to Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp (SMIC), the main chip manufacturer of the Asian giant, and has caused concern in the United States, collects South China Morning Post.

    This is the Mate 60 Pro model, the pre-sale of which began last week. The Kirin 9000s chip, produced by SMIC and on which the smartphone is believed to be based, is very advanced for China, and its development raises doubts about the effectiveness of US sanctions.

    After the launch of the phone, SMIC's share price rose by almost 20% in Hong Kong and 15% in Shanghai, as the new development immediately attracted investors.

    The American semiconductor research company TechInsights closely analyzed the components of the device, and concluded that the Mate 60 Pro is capable of reaching mobile phone speeds comparable to those of 5G devices such as the latest Apple iPhone models.

    "Huawei puts the US red line to a test"

    Huawei released the Mate 60 Pro during a visit to China by U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, whose department has imposed many key export controls on China.

    Since 2019, Washington has restricted Shanghai-based SMIC's access to the world's most advanced chipmaking equipment - extreme ultraviolet lithography systems.

    The US administration included Huawei and SMIC on its blacklist, but the Asian country has shown that it can produce "at least a limited number" of chips "five years behind the technological vanguard" and is approaching self-sufficiency in semiconductors, Bloomberg reports.

    In this regard, the US National Security Adviser, Jake Sullivan, said on Tuesday that the government intends to find out the exact composition of the processor of the new Huawei phone. "I will refrain from commenting on the specific chip in question until we have more information about its nature and composition," the official said, adding that Washington has to continue its course of technological restrictions focused on national security concerns and not on the "broader issue of trade decoupling."

    "Huawei is testing the red line of the United States," said Lin Tsung-nan, a professor of electrical engineering at National Taiwan University. According to him, if the United States does not take measures, "Huawei will decide that there is nothing to fear," then its other suppliers will follow the example of SMIC, "and American sanctions will collapse."

    Meanwhile, the United States also has doubts about SMIC's compliance with the rule according to which any company that intends to supply Huawei with American technology must obtain Washington's permission.

    It is expected that the new processor will be the subject of new investigations by the United States and will create more tensions between the two countries in the technology sector.

    Yandex Translate from Spanish

    https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/478959-principal-fabricante-chips-china-causa-panico-eeuu

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:15 pm

    I think that it is not ASML equipment that is involved in this "7 nm" chip production. China has been working on its own lithography machines and was
    supposed to have produced one that processes at the 28 nm scale. If ASML was the basis of Chinese production, then there would be no fuss since ASML
    has been banned from exporting to China. So old ASML machines would naturally run down and China would lose its ability to make high resolution parts.

    I think it is straightforward physics that is involved. If one develops an EUV lithography machine, then changing the resolution to by a factor of 2 and 4
    does not require a whole new machine. The etching beam wavelength can be adjusted with a dial. All the effort has gone into dealing with issues of
    high energy photon lithography and how to prepare the wafers to control for transistor geometry. It is really the layout of your chip that is the critical
    problem since parasitic currents grow rapidly with decreasing component size. You can produce some high resolution part but it will be useless.

    China is producing FinFet parts which means it has mastered the best that Taiwan can do. The label "7 nm" is not a geometry measure. It is an "effective
    geometry" measure. So the actual component scale of the Chinese parts may be 14 nm. Intel and TSMC parts that are claimed to be "7 nm" have true
    component scales 10 nm and larger. The simple geometry scaling stopped at around 90 nm. Ever since then, it has been all sorts of tricks to speed up
    switching speeds of transistors and reducing resistance that has been applied. I have posted a Wiki links on this subject before.

    The era of western wanking over high tech IC manufacture is coming to a close. Sooner rather than later the safe space, woke retards that are so important
    in will produce a post-technological society. Maybe the west will live vicariously via cargo cults.

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:41 am

    do we have a thread for Chinese semiconductors?
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Sep 07, 2023 6:48 pm

    Hey Scorpius

    Care to hook a brotha up?
    If you got any cheap 3060s lying around Cool

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:46 am

    flamming_python wrote:Hey Scorpius

    Care to hook a brotha up?
    If you got any cheap 3060s lying around Cool

    I didn't quite understand what it was about)

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Sep 08, 2023 4:30 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Hey Scorpius

    Care to hook a brotha up?
    If you got any cheap 3060s lying around Cool

    I didn't quite understand what it was about)

    Nvidia GEForce 3060?

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    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Sat Sep 09, 2023 5:20 am

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:07 pm

    "Last hope". What a retarded way to describe a robust CPU architecture that has been around for 50 years. CPU manufacture and CPU architecture are
    two different things. The Elbrus VLIW has proven itself. Intel failed with its VLIW produt but that is not relevant for MCST and the Elbrus.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 09, 2023 1:14 pm

    I didn't quite understand what it was about)

    I suspect he likes your rig and is wanting to know where you got your parts from so he can get some too...

    just how good are Russian CPUs...

    Would say that was a premature question considering up until now they have had cheap western alternatives easier to buy.

    That is like saying why all the Boeings and Airbuses in Russian airline fleets... well watch them disappear over time and be replaced by new and much better Russian designs now that they can't spend their money boosting Boeing and Airbus and funding their R&D, they will have to buy domestic which will boost their R&D and expand their product range and options.

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    Post  lancelot Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:57 am

    China exported no germanium, gallium in Aug due to export curbs
    September 20, 2023

    ... China's exports of germanium and gallium products in August plunged to zero,customs data showed on Wednesday, due to new export controls on the two chipmaking metals.

    Beijing exported no wrought germanium products last month, compared to 8.63 metric tons in July when volumes more than doubled from June as overseas buyers rushed to lock in supply ahead of the curbs.

    There were also no exports of wrought gallium products in August. In July, exports were 5.15 tons and 7.67 tons in the same month in 2022, the data showed.

    In July, China announced restrictions on the export of eight gallium and six germanium products starting Aug. 1, the latest salvo in an escalating war between Beijing and Washington over access to materials used in making high-tech microchips.

    Under the new rules, exporters of germanium and gallium products now need to obtain an export licence for dual-use items and technologies, meaning those with potential military and civilian applications.
    ...

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-exported-no-germanium-gallium-032417607.html

    ...
    China is imposing export restrictions on two elements used in semiconductors and other electronic components, a move likely to be viewed as a calculated response to Western restrictions on sales of chips and their production tech to the Middle Kingdom.

    The Chinese Ministry of Commerce released a statement announcing that Beijing has decided to implement export controls on gallium and germanium, as well as some compounds containing these elements, such as indium gallium arsenide, phosphorus germanium zinc, and silicon chip building tech Ge epitaxial growth substrate.
    ...
    Gallium and germanium are both materials for which China is the largest global source. For example, China is said to be responsible for around 60 percent of the world's germanium, according to the Critical Raw Materials Alliance, with the remainder coming from Canada, Finland, Russia and the United States.

    The situation is even worse for gallium, with 80 percent of this coming from China, while gallium arsenide – the second most common semiconductor in use today – is only produced at the requisite quality by a few companies in the world, just one of which is in Europe.

    Applications of germanium include fiber-optic systems, infrared optics, solar cells and light-emitting diodes (LEDs), while those of gallium are said to include microwave and high-speed switching circuits.

    Gartner vice president analyst in its Emerging Technologies & Trends unit, Alan Priestly, commented: "Both elements are used in various types of transistor – GaN used in most modern high power converters (from small power bricks for phones to EV chargers), germanium in a wide range of analog applications – comms, signalling, sensing etc.
    ...

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/03/china_semiconductor_export_restrictions/

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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:04 pm

    What happens when you block Russia or in this case China off from what they need...

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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:04 pm



    So China is put under sanctions by the west and China appears to be stopping buying western technology... China cancelling a 255 billion dollar chip order is a bit significant... this will have effects on markets and relations...

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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:28 pm

    ASML controls the world of chips does it... does it really.... so why is it begging China to let it back into their market?

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    Post  kvs Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:33 pm

    The video comes off as fluff but it is well grounded. Once China developed its 28 nm (nominal) EUV lithography machine, it was game
    over for the NATzO west and its "supremacy". A 28 nm machine is a trivial step away from a 14 nm machine. All the effort is on the
    IC design for 14 nm scales and not on the lithography machine and China clearly has developed the ability to design 14 nm ("7 nm") parts.
    Chinese FinFET is functional like the Taiwanese version. And it is not just FinFET, it is strained silicon and other measures to improve
    transistor switching speeds and signal lag on the die.

    Western chauvinism cannot create reality no matter how hard these clowns wish it to be so. I am quite sure that Russia will be entering
    the high resolution IC production capability in the coming decade. It is not starting from scratch.


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    Post  Kiko Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:20 pm

    The new Huawei processor has aroused interest even among American politicians, by Dmitry Bevza for Rossiyskaya Gazeta. 09.24.2023.

    The start of sales of Huawei Mate 60 series smartphones in China has become both a technological and political sensation. This was due to the new processor that Huawei put in its flagship smartphones. For the first time since it came under US sanctions, the Chinese technology giant managed to develop and produce its own 7-nanometer processor.

    To understand the significance of this event, it is enough to say that according to Bloomberg, the US Department of Commerce, which over the past 4 years has introduced a number of restrictions against Huawei and the Chinese microelectronics industry, said that it is working to obtain additional information about the 7-nanometer chip discovered in Mate 60 Pro.

    Even US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan spoke out: “I’m going to refrain from commenting on the Huawei chip until we get more information about its architecture. However, the fact that such a processor is being developed suggests that the United States must continue its course of introducing technological limitations related to national security issues."

    Import substitution of American and European technologies implemented by Huawei has no analogues in the history of the IT industry.

    The Kirin 9000S chip, developed by Huawei's HiSilicon Technologies division using a 7-nanometer process technology, is not a record for modern microelectronics. Thus, the Apple A17 Bionic processor is manufactured using a 3-nanometer technological process, while top-end chips from Qualcomm, MediaTek, and Samsung are manufactured using a 4-nanometer process. However, 7 nanometers is already the highest technological level. Moreover, experts suggest that the processor was produced in China itself at the factories of the SMIC company. Although Huawei and SMIC do not comment on this topic.

    The nanometer processor race is explained by the fact that the lower the process number (7,5,4,3), the more transistors are located on one square centimeter of the chip. Accordingly, the more powerful and energy efficient the processor.

    If the Kirin 9000S is indeed made in China, then this will greatly change the status quo. Due to American sanctions, the world's main manufacturer of mobile processors, Taiwanese TSMC, was forced to stop producing modern processors for Huawei. In the fall of 2020, Huawei again gained access to TSMC factories, but it was allowed to produce only chips with the old 28 nanometer topology for Huawei. Such processors can be used in various telecommunications equipment and household appliances, but they are not suitable for smartphones and tablets. After this, the Chinese vendor was forced to purchase processors for its new smartphones and tablets from the American Qualcomm and Taiwanese MediaTek in a stripped-down version, without 5G support.

    However, the furor caused by the Kirin 9000S is not only due to its supposed production in China. Popular chip testing programs - Geekbench and AnTuTu identify the Kirin 9000S as a 12-core processor. And if the programs correctly determined the number of cores, then the Kirin 9000S became the first 12-core mobile processor in the world. Which shows how far, while under sanctions, Huawei has advanced in the development of modern processors.

    But that's not all. As you know, almost all modern mobile processors are created on the ARM architecture, the British company ARM Limited, which provides (or does not provide) licenses to processor developers on commercial terms. Companies developing chips with ARM cores include Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Broadcom, Intel, Nvidia, NXP, Qualcomm, Samsung Electronics Texas Instruments, Xilinx and others, including HiSilicon. Preliminary analysis shows that several cores of the Kirin 9000S contain Huawei's own designs.

    Experts suggest that Huawei was able to adapt its processor cores, which were originally intended for use in data center servers, for the mobile chip. The strategy is similar to Apple's practice of turning iPhone chips into processors for Mac computers.

    Moreover, after the Canadian research company TechInsights disassembled the Mate 60 Pro smartphone, it turned out that its production uses an unusually high proportion of Chinese components, including a 5G modem and elements that provide satellite communications. The Mate 60 Pro specifications do not say anything about support for the 5G standard, but tests showed maximum download speeds of 500 to 800 Mbps, which is significantly higher than the maximum speed of 300 Mbps for 4G networks. As for satellite communications, GSMArena reports that the Mate 60 series smartphones are capable of not only transmitting text messages, but also making calls using the Chinese Tiantong satellite communications system.

    The import substitution from American and European technologies implemented by Huawei after the start of sanctions has no analogues in the history of the IT industry. Back in the spring of 2023, the South China Morning Post, citing company founder Ren Zhengfei, reported that Huawei had replaced more than 13,000 components in its product range with Chinese counterparts over the past three years and upgraded more than 4,000 printed circuit boards for chips. Huawei has also launched its MetaERP resource planning system, and plans to use its own OS, its own databases, its own compiler and its own programming language.

    After Huawei came under severe sanctions imposed by the Donald Trump administration, Google was forced to stop providing the company's new mobile devices with Google Mobile Services (GMS) - important software that includes a set of applications and interfaces to realize all the capabilities of Android devices. Google services for mobile devices include core applications such as Google Play, Gmail, Google Map, YouTube and Chrome, etc.

    In 2019, many experts, analysts and technology journalists (including the author of this text) decided that the era of Huawei mobile devices was over, but the company did not curtail mobile production, developed a replacement for GMS Huawei Mobile Services (HMS) and installed it on its own and third-party devices, including cars, compatible with most Android applications, its own operating system Harmony OS, which, according to Ren Zhengfei, is already used by 600 million people around the world.

    Despite Huawei’s unprecedented successes in the field of technological independence, experts interviewed by RG believe that in the modern IT industry, complete independence from American and European technologies, patents and licenses is still impossible.

    According to telecom analyst and leading telegram channel @abloud62 Alexey Boyko, at the moment the influence of the United States and Europe on global microelectronics is significant, but not absolute, since China is successfully moving towards creating its own ecosystem in the field of microelectronics, which includes mining and purification of materials, synthesis of crystals and wafers, semiconductor production, including in-house production equipment, in-house development of microcircuits, in-house production, packaging, testing.

    "But if we mean complete independence from all technologies, patents and architectures developed in the USA and Europe, then this is unrealistic. All modern electronics are based on discoveries and inventions made in the USA and Europe. And since new physical laws are rarely discovered, “It’s almost impossible to “get rid of” Western discoveries,” Boyko believes, noting that a significant part of this technology has become public domain (that is, not subject to patent and licensing restrictions), which allows other countries to freely use them for their own developments.

    Leading analyst of Mobile Research Group Eldar Murtazin is also confident that today not a single country in the world, including such powerful economies as the USA and China, can create a completely independent IT industry, as it is based on international cooperation. “Yes, most patents belong to American companies, since the United States has de facto created a modern market for software and microelectronics and, due to this, controls many technologies. But they do not control the market 100%. This is clearly visible in telecom, where, due to investments in scientific research, "Huawei's research developments in 5G have up to a third of all patents, which are very difficult to circumvent. The mutual penetration of developments, patents and licenses is very closely intertwined. All parties have to somehow agree, although it must be admitted that now this system of mutual agreements does not work very well".

    According to Murtazin, despite the fact that American officials often use IT and the intellectual property of American companies as a tool of political pressure, US business is not happy with this approach. This worsens its position in the global market and there are already serious contradictions between American IT companies and the political bureaucracy.

    https://rg.ru/2023/09/24/zagliadelis-v-smartfon.html

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