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    US Air Force: Discussion and News

    LMFS
    LMFS

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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  LMFS on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:49 am

    Arrow wrote:So the US already has a 6th generation prototype. They will again be a big step ahead of Russia and China.

    There can be many degrees of freedom in how they are reporting it and what they actually have (not the first or the 1000th time they bullshit us like they actually think they the smartest asses in the world and we are all retards), and more importantly, why they do it. This gentleman was talking little time ago about the "digital century fighters" or something similar about fast tracking aircraft prototypes in order not to loose decades with the development of a new generation. So, in simpler less pompous terms, use what you have instead of developing very new risky concepts, sounds better with that PR cover than saying that after copying Russia with their 4++ fighters, they are also going to copy their evolutionary development approach. This is all relatively compatible with the proposals to create a F-22/F-35 hybrid.

    In the end it is about them creating a plane capable of facing a second stage PAK-FA and what China can develop too, they know their current situation is quite vulnerable, if in a few years the VKS starts fielding a VCE equipped, long range high payload and extremely fast fighter with modern systems and weapons like it can be the case, plus backed by the rest of Russian IADS of course. They relaxed with the F-22 and they shut the production down instead of keeping the plane alive and evolving, the F-35 is airframe-wise incompatible with air superiority against high end platforms, no matter how much BS its terminally brain washed fans claim about it being the ultimate air dominance fighter. So what they need is the F-22 airframe with more fuel, systems and avionics based on those of the F-35 and most crucially, adaptive engines. If they manage it to carry bigger weapons it will be great for them, if not they have the F-15EX for that. They are not going to create some kind of alien tech, they much more probably intend to close the gap they have left open and sell it like if they were discovering the hyperspace jump. They have become predictable and boring as f*ck if you ask me, the best they can come up with is applying Musk-style trolling to the military development, as if with a couple of digital tricks they would magically solve the difficulties of developing real technology and leave everyone behind... the only relevant advantage they have is that they have already operational prototypes of three streams engines, this is the key element here and the rest is tired PR crap.
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    mnztr

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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty USAF has built AND FLOWN 6 gen fighter demonstrator

    Post  mnztr on Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:41 am

    https://www.businessinsider.com/us-air-force-secretly-builds-flies-next-generation-fighter-jet-2020-9

    That is interesting. Meanwhile the British have a mockup. I really think 6G = drones. I would design a small drone built around a 30 MM cannon. The idea is to have a swarm of these things operate around an AWACs platform. They would act similar to a SAM but will shoot 5 rounds at each target all prox fused.
    miketheterrible
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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:00 am

    I wouldn't put much stock into this.  Sounds like a lot of bullshit to sell.

    They made the claim a while back they were looking at 6th gen. But they never detailed what is 6th gen let alone have the tech for it.

    6th gen is their marketing scheme. Essentially they probably made a better F-35 which isn't hard to do. But it will still be it's AESA radar (maybe GaN modules) and semi autonomous capabilities. But that isn't 6th gen.

    6th gen will have to be something like ROFAR radar and other such tech. Something US doesn't have
    JohninMK
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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:08 pm

    More from the conference

    15 September 2020
    AFA 2020: General Atomics announces new ISR/strike UAV

    by Pat Host

    General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc (GA-ASI) unveiled an artist’s illustration of a new intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR)/strike unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) on 14 September during the Air Force Association’s (AFA’s) annual conference.

    The company did not respond to a request for comment prior to publication. But GA-ASI issued a statement that gave some insight into the aircraft’s attributes.

    GA-ASI is embracing ultra-long endurance for this ISR/strike UAV. The company envisions this aircraft as a conduit, supplier, and consumer of information. GA-ASI believes that it is imperative that future unmanned systems are able to communicate, share information, and collaborate tighter, and intuitively with its human counterparts, across systems and domains.

    The company views this ISR/strike UAV as being based on an interconnected framework of vision, operating concepts, agile capacity development, and rapid fielding that embraces a family of systems. GA-ASI’s operating concepts and agile capability development will prioritise openness, modularity, and expandability.

    The ISR/strike UAV will leverage combat operational experience of the company’s MQ-9 Reaper medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) aircraft in UAV operations and digital engineering techniques. GA-ASI will focus on automation and autonomous capabilities for this ISR/strike UAV. GA-ASI developed a multi-mission control capability for this ISR/strike aircraft that will allow commanders to control up to six UAVs with a single pilot.

    GA-ASI went with a blended wing-body with tailless design due to the physics involved in reducing the radar signature of an aircraft, according to an expert. Todd Harrison, director of the aerospace security project and defence budget analysis division at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) think tank in Washington, DC, told Janes

    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Fg_3721278-jdw-7920

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/afa-2020-general-atomics-announces-new-isrstrike-uav
    GarryB
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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:14 pm

    So the US already has a 6th generation prototype. They will again be a big step ahead of Russia and China.

    Would it really be any step at all considering the 5th gen step was two steps forward and a realisation that their main 5th gen plane is shit and a rapid step backwards to their 4th gen fighter that was too expensive at the time.

    I remember an American member of congress saying the US will never buy a 20 million dollar fighter aircraft again... meaning the 20 million for the F-15s at the time was too much and in future they will be much cheaper planes they were buying.

    He turned out right but only because they have never had a fighter plane that cheap since... which is the opposite of what he meant...

    Now they are making 6th gen.... well why waste time with 6th and 7th... why not just go straight to 10th generation fighters... Rolling Eyes

    If they can't get 5th gen ones right it wont matter if they fail at getting 10th gen fighters right because everyone will still be four generations behind...

    The US can afford hundreds of new aircraft. Russia is to introduce only 78 T-50s by 2028

    The F-35 was only going to cost 120 million an airframe when they were going to make 3,500 of them... if they only make 1,000 of them they will be like 500 million each and more... what are the chances they will get the price of the 6th gen down to less than the price of a 5th gen fighter?

    It seems they are more interested in getting the price of a 4th gen fighter up to the price of a 5th gen...

    I do not know what the orders will be, but the USA is the first to have a prototype of the 6th generation fighter when Russia and China are introducing only the fifth, and Russia is just starting a very small series production. They were ahead of their competitors by 20 years.

    In many ways Americas 5th gen light fighter is totally inferior to their 4th gen fighters... an F-16 is much cheaper, faster, better armed, longer ranged, than the F-35 that was supposed to replace it... unless the 6th gen is a block 200 F-16 I don't like their chances of moving forward.

    They always had an advantage in numbers, but it used to be quality too and with the Su-35 and Su-57 and even MiG-31 and MiG-35 they really don't have any advantage in terms of quality... just numbers.... and the cost of the 5th gen means they can't do the numbers either because even they can't afford them...

    LMFS
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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  LMFS on Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:25 pm

    Great, they came up with some new BS in the line I was pointing out: the eSeries (TM)

    https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2346441/secaf-unveils-new-eseries-classification-in-nod-to-departments-digital-future/fbclid/IwAR0YUclguLumOi0AOqlMP9mzo0V24PvbYNIlQlRZujUM50hQIPbyC73soNo/fbclid/IwAR2l5Im2bJfFyx1iS7aJVUjtzI2gxvOuMEMoA1xCIVzEleqktVINjFIC1dk/

    Apart from being game-changing, unmatched and ground-breaking, I wonder... are they aware that literally everyone out there is using mathematical modelling to develop their systems from top to bottom, and additive technologies to build them? Is this digital engineering allowing them to do without technology demonstrators, prototypes and flight testing? The Zvezda spacial showed briefly the modelling department of Sukhoi and how they recreate such complex and specific phenomena as the spreading of fire / oxygen under combat damage inside the fuel tanks of the plane and how to contain it. Poor Russian guys, they just know about doing hard cold engineering and have no clue about BS marketing... Rolling Eyes
    kvs
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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  kvs on Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:02 am

    LMFS wrote:Great, they came up with some new BS in the line I was pointing out: the eSeries (TM)

    https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2346441/secaf-unveils-new-eseries-classification-in-nod-to-departments-digital-future/fbclid/IwAR0YUclguLumOi0AOqlMP9mzo0V24PvbYNIlQlRZujUM50hQIPbyC73soNo/fbclid/IwAR2l5Im2bJfFyx1iS7aJVUjtzI2gxvOuMEMoA1xCIVzEleqktVINjFIC1dk/

    Apart from being game-changing, unmatched and ground-breaking, I wonder... are they aware that literally everyone out there is using mathematical modelling to develop their systems from top to bottom, and additive technologies to build them? Is this digital engineering allowing them to do without technology demonstrators, prototypes and flight testing? The Zvezda spacial showed briefly the modelling department of Sukhoi and how they recreate such complex and specific phenomena as the spreading of fire / oxygen under combat damage inside the fuel tanks of the plane and how to contain it. Poor Russian guys, they just know about doing hard cold engineering and have no clue about BS marketing... Rolling Eyes

    The US is in love with supercomputers as a panacea for everything. That is why they pushed for the nuclear test ban treaty since the clowns
    decided they could do all the necessary development using computer simulations. Even if these simulations are complex (e.g. full hydrodynamics
    of nuclear detonations) they can never replace real world testing. All models are approximations by definition. Some approximations are better
    than others and allow tedious work to be streamlined. But reality will always be bigger than any simulation (by definition) so any real innovation
    will require real world testing. The key is innovation which is the search for new information which clearly is not a trivial part of any existing model.

    The models involved in aircraft (and car) design are for mechanical parts and how they behave under various stresses. You can make a new wing
    shape and see how it behaves. But wind tunnel tests are going to be needed anyway since wing boundary layer behaviour is something that
    no finite element hydrodynamics code can simulate from the molecular scale on up. There is some turbulence closure scheme involved and these
    schemes are all over the map in terms of realism. There really is no such thing as a closure since the parameterization is trying to use a reduced
    set of variables (specifically ones that can be well simulated at the given grid resolution) to simulate a system where such pseudo-empirical
    functional dependence is not there. Good for writing academic papers but not so good for real world design.

    LMFS
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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  LMFS on Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:08 am

    kvs wrote:The US is in love with supercomputers as a panacea for everything.   That is why they pushed for the nuclear test ban treaty since the clowns
    decided they could do all the necessary development using computer simulations.     Even if these simulations are complex (e.g. full hydrodynamics
    of nuclear detonations) they can never replace real world testing.   All models are approximations by definition.   Some approximations are better
    than others and allow tedious work to be streamlined.   But reality will always be bigger than any simulation (by definition) so any real innovation
    will require real world testing.   The key is innovation which is the search for new information which clearly is not a trivial part of any existing model.

    The models involved in aircraft (and car) design are for mechanical parts and how they behave under various stresses.   You can make a new wing
    shape and see how it behaves.   But wind tunnel tests are going to be needed anyway since wing boundary layer behaviour is something that
    no finite element hydrodynamics code can simulate from the molecular scale on up.   There is some turbulence closure scheme involved and these
    schemes are all over the map in terms of realism.   There really is no such thing as a closure since the parameterization is trying to use a reduced
    set of variables (specifically ones that can be well simulated at the given grid resolution) to simulate a system where such pseudo-empirical
    functional dependence is not there.   Good for writing academic papers but not so good for real world design.

    Totally agree, a model is just a model and being able to run HIL or physical simulations is absolutely fantastic, but it does not absolve from testing the real thing in real environment. They are just treating all of us all as we were full retards needing their lead even to take a pee... Rolling Eyes

    Tsavo Lion
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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 13 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  Tsavo Lion Yesterday at 2:00 am

    US strategic bombers "visited" the Arctic

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