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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:37 pm

    The movie prop is butt-ugly. They did not bother putting in any effort to make it look realistic as you can tell from the funny short engine compartments.

    I think it is important to account for the innovations in materials and engines for Russian hypersonic missiles and Avangard maneuverable warhead. There is no need to increment the Mig-41 from the Mig-31. It can be a radical departure.

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    Post  Isos Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:51 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    t's not about destroying any country. Just an impulse for the development of civilization. Crazy projects develop many interesting technologies that can then serve our civilization and push its development forward. Very Happy

    Looking how shitty the world situation is they better make those an-124.

    Specially wheb you see how crazy those US and their dogs are.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:22 am

    lancelot wrote:It is well known that the PAK-DP is supposed to use an Izdeliye 30 engine derivative of some sort. With the same gas generator.


    well that depends what do you understand by well known? There were an official announcement about only idz 30 or some press "source" information?
    Even if thsi is true any mixed cycel/hybrid turbojet/ramjet engine needs turbo part to start...

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:24 am

    apparently in top gun 2 there is "a hypersonic fighter" Dark Star .AFAIK  Lockheed mentioned in press that is based on SR-72 concept

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    just fyi: its mockup for movie irl lol1 lol1 lol1


    Isos wrote:
    Looking how shitty the world situation is (1)they better make those an-124.

    Specially wheb you see how (2) crazy those US and their dogs are.



    (1) why An-124? What a Face What a Face What a Face

    aaaah ok i didnt see this cm airborne launcher.



    (2) you mean the free world? lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Post  mnztr Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:19 am

    Arrow wrote:
    lancelot wrote:It is well known that the PAK-DP is supposed to use an Izdeliye 30 engine derivative of some sort. With the same gas generator.

    So it probably won't reach a speed of 4M, probably somewhere around 3M.

    It means nothing, when you reach those speeds the core and gas generator are really not important, the afterburner/ramjet/scramjet section is what will be providing the trust, the core will essentially be at idle. With the R-15 it had a very low compression ratio, so the speed would boost this with ram effect

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    Post  BenVaserlan Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:25 am

    High heat degrading the aircraft's RAM is less of a concern for Russian stealth aircraft maintainers. They rely more on RADAR absorbent paint which I imagine is easier to reapply.

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    Post  mnztr Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:39 am

    kvs wrote:The movie prop is butt-ugly.    They did not bother putting in any effort to make it look realistic as you can tell from the funny short engine compartments.  

    I think it is important to account for the innovations in materials and engines for Russian hypersonic missiles and Avangard maneuverable warhead.  There is no need to increment the Mig-41 from the Mig-31.   It can be a radical departure.

         

    Depends on the objectives. Frankly there is nothing in service that comes close to the specs of the Mig-31 today already, not even on the drawing boards. And the concept has proven very useful in Ukraine against Gen 4 fighters. So what the specs you want to attain will define how radical you need to go. They probably had a "meet the specs" project and a "art of the possible" track as well. Then they weighed risks/costs and complete final definition> then design,

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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:26 pm

    Me - I'm just thinking that this will be a hugely expensive undertaking and might just get cancelled on those grounds considering that it would be very easy to eliminate spacecraft with cheap missiles/jamming and even lasers.

    I am more worried that they might end up with the west flip flopping on its relations with Russia and China etc and that as part of the new "reset" they want new international treaties on various programmes Russia has that scares them and ABM systems might be one of them much like the MiG-31D anti satellite aircraft was sacrificed to international agreements.

    They need a new interceptor and its speed and range performance would actually make it an ideal platform for an ABM missile.

    If the MiG-41 is a big aircraft like an enlarge Tu-22M3 type plane then the potential for it carrying S-500 type missiles would massively improve that missiles capacity to hit targets in orbit because starting its rocket motor at mach 4 at perhaps 25 to 30km altitude instead of stationary on the ground would have a very significant effect on performance that would make it rather more potent and mobile... and an anti ship version would be interesting too.

    Just because the brief says so doesn't guarantee that it will get into production. There is a very long list of cancelled projects that only managed to get to the prototype stage. The list for paper ware is endless.

    You just have to look at the versions of the Yak-130 that were shown, with nothing actually entering service except the trainer.

    In this case the chance of international treaties limiting them is much higher too.

    It will not be that hard to take the AL-41 and modify it to this purpose.

    I think the requirements of a high speed interceptors engine will be rather different from that of a fighters jet engine.

    There is a reason the MiG-31 does not use engines for the Su-27 or Su-57, and vice versa...

    I rather suspect the new MiG-41 will want a solid reliable engine or engines to get airborne but might spend most of its flight time with its engines operating as ramjets... the SR-71 used two bypass turbojets as ramjets in flight but there is no reason an aircraft could not be designed where the ramjets are side by side with the turbojets or turbo fans so the aircraft takes off and accelerates and starts to climb with conventional turbofans and then switches over to ramjets with the intakes shifting from supplying air from the turbofans to the ramjet to then accelerate to high speed and altitude.

    In such a set up the turbofans don't need to be super fuel efficient because they would only be used for a few minutes for takeoff and landing... they just need to be solid and reliable.

    The ramjet can be efficient for high speed flight, for which it is optimised.

    So it probably won't reach a speed of 4M, probably somewhere around 3M.

    If it uses a low bypass turbofan/turbojet design the turbojet component would only be at idle power at very high flight speeds with the thrust essentially coming from the ramjet operating through the air bypass flow around the jet engine.

    With the turbofan in idle the flight speed would be determined by the performance of the ramjet and aerodynamics of the aircraft.

    They have claimed a flight speed of 5,000km/h... I doubt they would make such a claim if they hadn't already worked out the numbers.

    The 1950s and 1960s were crazy in terms of development. Lots of amazing projects.

    It was a crazy time when everyone thought that by the 1980s we would be flying around in mach 5 fighters, but it became rather quickly obvious that high flight speed came at a cost... the Tu-22M3 was at a time when mach 3 bombers were expected and Tupolev basically sold the Tu-22 and Tu-22M as vastly more affordable designs to the sort of T-4 mach 3 types that some people wanted to make at the time.

    Turned out Tupolev was right and this was realised in the west where the F-18 and F-16 were slower than the F-14 and F-15 that preceded them, but that reduced speed requirement made their engines and air intakes simpler and cheaper and no less effective in most regards.

    Looking how shitty the world situation is they better make those an-124.

    Their new thunderbird missiles will enable cruise missile launch from deep inside Russia from cheap simple ground launchers... a cruise missile is safest when it is flying low, so it should be safe and effective and they should make them in enormous numbers... but put retractible wheels and call them drones so they don't count as strategic weapons. pirat

    just fyi: its mockup for movie irl

    That is creepy... why do the ground crew look like children?

    High heat degrading the aircraft's RAM is less of a concern for Russian stealth aircraft maintainers. They rely more on RADAR absorbent paint which I imagine is easier to reapply.

    It will likely be operating the biggest and most powerful radar array they can fit into an aircraft, that will be operating most of the time looking for enemy aircraft and already launched missiles... both stealthy and hypersonic.

    They probably had a "meet the specs" project and a "art of the possible" track as well. Then they weighed risks/costs and complete final definition> then design,

    Agree... I suspect the Mach 4.2 or 5,000km/h speed limit was worked out based on airframe heating or engine limitations with ramjet propulsion.

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    Post  BenVaserlan Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:25 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I am more worried that they might end up with the west flip flopping on its relations with Russia and China etc and that as part of the new "reset" they want new international treaties on various programmes Russia has that scares them and ABM systems might be one of them much like the MiG-31D anti satellite aircraft was sacrificed to international agreements.

    Russia has decoupled from the West. The West no longer has leverage over Russia. I'm old enough to recall the 1990s. The economies of India and China have grown vastly since the 1990s. So many Western politicians are stuck in the 90s mindset of 'we won the cold war'. They need to remember what won: capitalism over socialism. Now the west is more economically socialist than Russia and China. The West has a ludicrous amount of debt at all levels: government, corporate, and individual. On a road to hyperinflation. Many Russians, especially naturally conservative ISTJ (Contender Guardian AKA an introvert of [sensory] instinctive type with subsidiary thinking) Putin know that hyperinflation is real. This is why debt is so low in Russia. Ideally, Russia should be on a Gold standard with the market setting interest rates rather than a central bank. A central bank can NEVER set interest rates above the rate the market would set those. Why? Because banks would not borrow from the central bank at those rates.

    The sanctions placed on Russia and its oligarchs have reduced the power of the Russian oligarchs. Putin is happy about that. He said to them publicly; that they shouldn't have put their money in the west.

    I suggest you follow Peter Schiff to learn just how screwed the Western economies are.

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    Post  mnztr Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:18 am

    lancelot wrote:It is well known that the PAK-DP is supposed to use an Izdeliye 30 engine derivative of some sort. With the same gas generator.

    Since this plane will be in service probably for 30-50 years it seems reasonable to go with the latest gas turbine so the supply chain will be around longest.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:22 am

    GarryB wrote:

    just fyi: its mockup for movie irl

    That is creepy... why do the ground crew look like children?

    because they are children Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil surrounding movie mockup


    Well creepy or not for me interesting was remark form Lockheed regarding similarity to SR-72...





    They probably had a "meet the specs" project and a "art of the possible" track as well. Then they weighed risks/costs and complete final definition> then design,

    Agree... I suspect the Mach 4.2 or 5,000km/h speed limit was worked out based on airframe heating or engine limitations with ramjet propulsion.


    looks like most probable option for currelt level of technology imho.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:10 am

    Russia has decoupled from the West. The West no longer has leverage over Russia. I'm old enough to recall the 1990s.

    Everything you say is very true, though I would argue that it was the west that has decoupled from Russia, but Russia is still interested in peace and stability... all their new products like their new gliders and thunderbird and Poseidon are designed to bypass ABM systems and I suspect they would give up or severely limit their production in return for limits on ABM systems... which will of course effect them more because their ABM systems clearly work well... but they will give up such things to make the world and themselves safer.

    They didn't want the ABM treaty to be ripped up, they wanted the INF treaty to stay even though it was them that was disadvantaged by that treaty... eliminating intermediate and medium ranged missiles mean Russia would have to use ICBMs to reach targets in Europe, while the US could place 500km range weapons close enough to hit targets in Russia in the west and the east... and of course other HATO countries nukes were not even counted... but it limited a dangerous group of weapons so they followed the rules.

    The West has a ludicrous amount of debt at all levels: government, corporate, and individual. On a road to hyperinflation.

    When interest rates on loans are almost zero it is like free money that someone else is responsible for paying back... what western politician could refuse?

    And now we actually have inflation and the cost is increased interest rates punishing the borrowers and rewarding the savers... now it encourages people to save which is a good thing if you are not buried in debt.

    It is well known that the PAK-DP is supposed to use an Izdeliye 30 engine derivative of some sort. With the same gas generator.

    That was said by the company that makes that engine and makes engines for Sukhoi fighters. MiG is making this plane and they tend to work with Klimov who are likely also working on their own range of engines. It might be that some parts can be used, but fundamentally this engine needs to be a turbojet/ramjet, or a turbofan with separate ramjets.

    A ramjet is just an air channel that air flows into, is compressed and fuel is added to generate thrust... the new aircraft might have a large central engine that gets the aircraft airborne and climbing and a ramjet down either side of the central engine so the air intake starts out feeding air to the central jet engine but as the aircraft accelerates and climbs the intake shifts to direct the airflow either side of the central jet engine into the ramjets that start up and takeover with the central engine eventually shutting down and being shut off from the airflow except perhaps a narrow stream to help it cool down while it is no longer running.

    If you put a plastic bag over your mouth and blow you can only fill the bag with the air that is in your lungs... which is not a huge amount. If you hold the bag away from your lips and blow surrounding air is dragged in to the bag by the air you are blowing from your lungs which means a much greater volume of air goes into the bag...

    Using the same effect an extra intake that scoops air half way down the aircraft and lets it flow down the outside of the ramjet past the engine exhaust would give you a stream of oxygen rich air (that hasn't been through the ramjet or had fuel burned in it) that could be used in an extra afterburner for extra thrust if needed...

    There are lots of different tricks to get more airflow and more thrust...


    because they are children Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil surrounding movie mockup

    They are dressed as aircrew... Perhaps they are saving money on pay rates which means they only want to pay children because they can pay them a dollar a day.

    That works for the US military because nothing works anyway so any idiot can stand next to it and pretend they made it or fix it.

    Well creepy or not for me interesting was remark form Lockheed regarding similarity to SR-72...

    They can't design new aircraft... The replacement for the B-2 is the B-2, the replacement for the F-15 is the F-22, no the F-35, no... the F-15, and the replacement for the F-16 is the F-16... why would anyone be surprised that the replacement for the SR-71 is the SR-71?

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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:57 am

    I've never believed that the SR-72 is a real project, or if it is, has any real chance of actually meeting its claimed specs. An "artists impression" of this thing should be next to the Oxford Dictionary entry for "vapourware". Razz

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    Post  lancelot Thu Oct 19, 2023 5:19 pm

    The "SR-72" is just a concept design that they floated out trying to sell it to the US government. But from what I heard it was never financed. They can't even get an operational scramjet cruise missile working, let alone a reconnaissance aircraft.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:18 am

    They like to pretend that the huge corruption and military spend every year is actually a cover for lots of top secret programmes that would blow your mind if they let you know... you know... mach 6 Aurora aircraft, and of course the Stargate programme... which they have running without anyone knowing.

    Look at videos about the SR-71 and you always get some idiot popping up and claiming that it can actually go mach 4.5 and it is actually the first stealth aircraft...

    Except when it was used in various places it was tracked from takeoff to landing by Russia and by China.... its flight profile meant they knew exactly what it was soon after takeoff and they tracked it its entire flight... and it never went more than mach 3.3 which was slightly faster than its redline limit in operational service of Mach 3.21.

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    Post  BenVaserlan Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:36 am

    GarryB wrote:

    The West has a ludicrous amount of debt at all levels: government, corporate, and individual. On a road to hyperinflation.

    When interest rates on loans are almost zero it is like free money that someone else is responsible for paying back... what western politician could refuse?

    And now we actually have inflation and the cost is increased interest rates punishing the borrowers and rewarding the savers... now it encourages people to save which is a good thing if you are not buried in debt.


    I'd agree with "free money" IF the loans were fixed rate.

    I in the early 90s watching BBC News reports about British folks having their houses repossessed by the banks because folks couldn't afford the mortgage: "Who would be stupid enough to get an adjustable rate mortgage?"
    BBC never said those were the only mortgages available due lack of real savings, high street banks borrowed from the central bank.  

    Also, those low rates meant house prices went up and folks borrowed against the appreciated house value.

    The U.S. housing bubble over a decade later:


    Interest rates in the west are still lower than the actual price inflation rate.

    CPI rigged via "owner's equivalent rent" (lower than actual rents), hedonic adjustments (TVs are better than 10 years ago so more value for money), and substitutions (chicken for steak).  But a substitution is a downgrade in quality.  So upgrades in quality lower the CPI but downgrades don't increase it.  That's an inconsistency.

    See John Williams's "Shadow Stats" for what the CPI is using a prior less rigged iteration of it.

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    Post  BenVaserlan Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Look at videos about the SR-71 and you always get some idiot popping up and claiming that it can actually go mach 4.5 and it is actually the first stealth aircraft...

    Except when it was used in various places it was tracked from takeoff to landing by Russia and by China.... its flight profile meant they knew exactly what it was soon after takeoff and they tracked it its entire flight... and it never went more than mach 3.3 which was slightly faster than its redline limit in operational service of Mach 3.21.

    Paul Metz* (in his YF-23 book) claimed the S-71 had some proto stealth qualities.   When it comes to stealth, most stealth aircraft can be tracked using L band but not precise enough to get a target lock.   The L-band RADARs in the Su-57 are a very good counter-stealth asset.  They can cue the its X-band RADARs to concentrate radio energy on a certain sector.  

    Metz* = I think he got it right that the main reason the U.S. developed stealth was because of the USSR's SAM network.

    MiG-25 vs SR-71: but for how long could each plane fly at Mach 3?
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    Post  Mir Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:44 pm

    BenVaserlan wrote:

    Paul Metz* (in his YF-23 book) claimed the S-71 had some proto stealth qualities.   When it comes to stealth, most stealth aircraft can be tracked using L band but not precise enough to get a target lock.   The L-band RADARs in the Su-57 are a very good counter-stealth asset.  They can cue the its X-band RADARs to concentrate radio energy on a certain sector.  

    Metz* = I think he got it right that the main reason the U.S. developed stealth was because of the USSR's SAM network.

    MiG-25 vs SR-71: but for how long could each plane fly at Mach 3?

    The SR-71 was a superb design and had some radar reduction features but was definitely not a stealth aircraft. It remains the fastest manned aircraft and could cruise happily at Mach 3.2 for long distances until it had to refuel. The design started off as some super interceptor (YF-12) and a bomber (A-12) but just to get the aircraft airborne took more than a day in prep work - making it impractical. It was and still is a breathtaking aircraft with unique qualities.

    The Mig-25 was designed as a counter to the SR-71 and the Valkyrie bomber. Only the SR-71 made it into service in small numbers but the Mig-25 program went ahead and was produced in numbers - both as an interceptor and a recce plane. In operations the maximum speed was limited to Mach 2.8 and the engine was quite thirsty giving it fairly limited range, but like the SR-71 it was a remarkable aircraft for it's time.

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    Post  BenVaserlan Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:12 pm

    Mir wrote: It remains the fastest manned aircraft

    Not counting the X-15 because it was rocket-powered and had a tendency to be a terminal career shortener.

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    Post  Arrow Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:29 pm

    The Mig-25 was designed as a counter to the SR-71 and the Valkyrie bomber. wrote:

    The MiG 25 was created mainly against XB 70 bombers. It was assumed that such fast bombers could be a significant threat. The XB 70 did not work, but the MiG remained a great interceptor and then the MiG 31. I wonder what the PAK DP will be. Rather, it will be adapted to combat hypersonic missiles once the West develops and implements them

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    Post  Hole Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:47 pm

    MiG-25 vs SR-71: but for how long could each plane fly at Mach 3?
    The SR-71 was produced in small numers. After each flight they had nearly to rebuild the whole thing. The engines were finished after only a few flights.
    The MiG-25 was a mass produced interceptor and recon/bomber plane. That´s why its top speed was limited to save maintenance time/spare parts and so on.

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    Post  lancelot Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:33 pm

    The MiG-25 was just the latest in a long line of long range interceptors. When the Soviets designed their air defense network after WW2 they knew the ground based air defense network would never be able to cover 100% of Soviet territory. So they conceived of a flying radar platform/interceptor to plug in the gaps. Due to limitations in miniaturization of electronics for the radar and missiles back then the platform had to be huge.
    So they conceived the La-250. Unfortunately the La-250 requirements were slightly beyond the limit of the technology of the day so the project ended up being cancelled. However it led to later development of the successful Tu-128 aircraft in the same role. The Tu-128 itself was later replaced by the MiG-25, and the MiG-31.

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    Post  Mir Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:38 am

    The La-250 Anaconda was plagued with problems and the program was dropped in favour of the Tu-128. The Tu-128 wasn't exactly a "success" either but it had one thing going for it - it had range.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:50 am

    When the Soviets designed their air defense network after WW2 they knew the ground based air defense network would never be able to cover 100% of Soviet territory. wrote:

    This is still the case today. The MiG-31 is still an important element of the country's air defense. SAM systems and radars cannot cover such a huge territory.

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    PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor - Page 24 Empty Re: PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor

    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:46 am


    The U.S. housing bubble over a decade later:

    The US housing bubble was created... they changed the rules regarding loans from banks... previously if a bank gave you a loan you could not possibly pay back then you didn't have to pay it back, so they used to demand all sorts of information from the people they lent money to to make sure even if they or their partner lost their job they could still pay the loan back.

    The problem was that house values and house prices started going up because a good way to make money was to buy a house and do it up and then sell it again a few years later to make a much bigger profit than could possibly be earned in interest on a saving account.

    Banks would give anyone a loan because they knew if the person couldn't pay the loan back they could get their money back by seizing and selling the house because house prices kept going up.

    Obviously they can't keep going up forever so you end up with people with a million dollar loan on a house that is now only worth 500 thousand that they paid 1.5 million for... well they can seize the house and sell it but they will still be half a million out of pocket and their customer is now homeless and having to pay rent and is even less able to pay off the loan... and the whole pyramid scheme collapsed.... but it is OK because the Banks were owned by very very rich people and the government of the country that all the little people pay tax for but the very very rich seem to be able to dodge paying tax at the rates they should be paying, so of course those very very rich families that owned banks got a 750 billion dollar bail out and their CEOs got 25 million dollar bonuses for the great job they did... while the people who couldn't pay back their loans were kicked out onto the street...

    Paul Metz* (in his YF-23 book) claimed the S-71 had some proto stealth qualities.

    Have heard such claims before, but as I said... the Chinese and Soviets had no problems tracking SR-71s from takeoff to landing and often from a country away... China with flights over Vietnam were able to track it from China, and the Soviets were able to track SR-71s that never entered their airspace either.

    Aerodynamically to fly that fast it was very slim and low drag and in many ways that is good from a RCS perspective.

    The main stealth feature would be the engines and engine intakes which would be rather more stealthy than the huge air intakes of the MiG-25 and MiG-31, but stealth feature is an exaggeration, the surface heating meant the MiG-25 could detect the aircraft at 130km plus range with its IRST... which is why the MiG-31 continued to carry the IR guided R-40TD missile because in a head on shot it would have been the first weapon they fired followed by an R-33 to shoot it down head on.

    When it comes to stealth, most stealth aircraft can be tracked using L band but not precise enough to get a target lock. The L-band RADARs in the Su-57 are a very good counter-stealth asset. They can cue the its X-band RADARs to concentrate radio energy on a certain sector.

    When it comes to anti stealth the Russians go a step further... their ground based NEBO system has long wave and short wave radar but they don't operate them separately, they operate them together and combine their signal performance to create a hybrid system that is much much better than either system on its own would be.

    They do the same on the Su-57 except they combine the nose mounted Ku/Ka band AESA with the wing mounted L band AESA, but also the IRST system to get rather better performance than any of those systems could achieve on their own.

    Metz* = I think he got it right that the main reason the U.S. developed stealth was because of the USSR's SAM network.

    It was more about the money though... even in the 1990s the US knew the B-2 would never penetrate Soviet airspace at altitude and that flying low was going to be necessary for all their strategic aircraft.... which was damaging their B-52s and B-1Bs because flying low at high speed can be a very rough ride depending on the weather.

    The Soviets realised a missile is going to be more stealthy than any aircraft and it is also easier to make a missile travel at very high speed than to make a bomber fly fast.

    Sending 100 bombers into enemy airspace means the enemy has to shoot down 100 targets... having those bombers be converted to cruise missile carriers with 12 missiles per bomber with a flight range of 5,000km means the enemy air defence is not dealing with 100 targets, they are dealing with 1,200 targets.... and this will be about 4 or 5 hours after Russian ICBMs and SLBMs have already hit and devastated the country and its air defence resources...

    Their next gen strategic aircraft will be carrying 12 or so missiles still but in the 2030s those 12 missiles are going to be two stage scramjet powered missiles flying at mach 12 at perhaps 40km altitude... and their next gen aircraft are Tu-160s and PAK DAs... a supersonic swing wing aircraft and a flying wing... the latter will be naturally stealthy with no vertical tails etc, but it wont be expensive... subsonic wont matter when it carries mach 12 missiles with 10,000km flight ranges.

    MiG-25 vs SR-71: but for how long could each plane fly at Mach 3?

    The MiG-25 could fly at mach 2.83 for about 5 minutes and mach 2.6 for about 20 minutes and mach 2.4 all day long.

    At Mach 2.6 it could fly 750km in about 13 minutes and it would then launch its missiles and turn around and fly back to base, which it could do at a similar speed.

    It ran its turbojet engines as turbojet engines which is amazing.

    The SR-71 could fly mach 3.1 all day long and could peak at about mach 3.3 at the most in optimal weather conditions.

    The MiG-25 could operate normally at 20km altitude but holds the world record in a stripped down model at 37km altitude.

    The shape of the SR-71 with its long nose meant it could not perform well at high altitude as the nose would stall and drop.

    Both are very well designed aircraft... and seeing as how the US claims the T-34 is an American design because it was developed from about four different vehicles that eventually ended in the T-34 the Christie suspension... which had to be rejigged for heavier vehicles to make it useful, then the Soviets could claim the SR-71 because it was made out of Soviet Titanium... without the Soviet Titanium it could not have been made... Razz Razz

    The Mig-25 was designed as a counter to the SR-71 and the Valkyrie bomber. Only the SR-71 made it into service in small numbers but the Mig-25 program went ahead and was produced in numbers - both as an interceptor and a recce plane. In operations the maximum speed was limited to Mach 2.8 and the engine was quite thirsty giving it fairly limited range, but like the SR-71 it was a remarkable aircraft for it's time.

    The R-40TD probably would have been the missile the MiG-25 would have used to shoot down an SR-71 if they had actually crossed paths... fired head on.

    Not counting the X-15 because it was rocket-powered and had a tendency to be a terminal career shortener.

    Not counting Buran and MiG Spiral and the US Space Shuttles either...

    I wonder what the PAK DP will be. Rather, it will be adapted to combat hypersonic missiles once the West develops and implements them

    The purpose of the speed is to allow threats to be intercepted further away from their targets so you have more chances for a kill.

    If a MiG-29 could intercept a target 500km from the airfield and an Su-27 could intercept the target at 1,000km, the advantage of the MiG-31 is that it could climb and accelerate to a much higher speed and its missiles reach rather further so it could attack a target 1,500km away but would have to fly subsonic home.

    The other point is that when the MiG-31 gets to 750km away from its own airfield that will be about 13 minutes after takeoff and the other MiG an the Sukhoi wont be that far out in that time so it intercepts further out and fast giving the target less time to launch its attack/weapons on target. Shooting down bombers instead of having to deal with all its missiles is important.

    The SR-71 was produced in small numers. After each flight they had nearly to rebuild the whole thing. The engines were finished after only a few flights.
    The MiG-25 was a mass produced interceptor and recon/bomber plane. That´s why its top speed was limited to save maintenance time/spare parts and so on.

    The SR-71 was so expensive they cancelled it quite a few times... mostly because of the cost and also because it was claimed that satellites could do a better job... but they kept bringing it back because obviously an aircraft operating 20km above the ground carrying the latest new camera invented that morning is going to do a better job than a camera fitted to a satellite that was launched 4 years ago and is 500km up and might not be passing over the area you want a good look at any time soon.

    It was very capable, but never crossed any Russian airspace.

    In comparison quite a few countries operated MiG-25s.

    The west was actually surprised how cheap they managed to make it... steel instead of titanium etc etc... silver mesh over the engines instead of more efficient but more expensive gold mesh...

    The La-250 Anaconda was plagued with problems and the program was dropped in favour of the Tu-128. The Tu-128 wasn't exactly a "success" either but it had one thing going for it - it had range.

    Exactly... I have mentioned a few times that the PAK DA will be very fast, but I think in a few years time when the PAK DA is entering service and they have a few spare Tu-22M3s around the place that a huge super powerful AESA nose mounted radar and a belly packed with long range and medium range and short range self defence AAMs might be something that is interesting.... not just to fill gaps but also as a bomber escort to shoot down enemy SAMs and aircraft...

    The new improved performance engines they were working on for the Tu-160M could be fitted to them too to further improve performance...

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