The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

etaepsilonk wrote:Could someone tell me if this is true or not:
"Ukraine introduces new military award- bandera cross:"
http://voenkor.info/hunta-vvodit-banderovskij-krest-na-ukraine/

That doesn't surprise me ,not even a little. The entire operation in Ukraine is run by the WHite House and the CIA.
Their aim is create the most hostile nation possible in Ukraine against Russia and provoke an endless war ,which
only aim is to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian soul and then when no more ukrainians remain alive ,use NATO mercenaries and continue.. This is why NATO continues to fund Kiev with weapons but also give money to buy more and not a single penny to Ukrainians to pay their gas bills. IF with the help of their american propaganda media they can get the zombie Ukrainians to believe their economical problems are consequences of Russia.. then they will win.

But this is great because we are winning. We should expel all the anti-Russian from Ukraine. Doesn't matter if they are 10 million or 30 million.
There should not be a repetition of the mistakes in Georgia.

You go against Russia for no reason? OK
You lost? You annihilated. No second chance.

u idiot WE WILL WIN THIS WAR, Donetsk and Lugansk will be ours and your infiltrator terrorists will be driven out.

OMG.. the Donetsk militia paraded with captured kiev soldiers in a similar way ,the soviet did it
in Red Square with the Nazis they captured. even the water trucks following them cleaning the street
was simulated .   


Neither miss Angela Merkel in the parade too.. at the time 0:50.   

Petro007 wrote:u idiot WE WILL WIN THIS WAR, Donetsk and Lugansk will be ours and your infiltrator terrorists will be driven out.

i was wondering when the first pro-Kiev troll would appear on this forum...

time for some popcorn and watch the flame-war be unleashed here

Airbornewolf wrote:

Petro007 wrote:u idiot WE WILL WIN THIS WAR, Donetsk and Lugansk will be ours and your infiltrator terrorists will be driven out.

i was wondering when the first pro-Kiev troll would appear on this forum...

time for some popcorn and watch the flame-war be unleashed here

Hahaha i think i won't pick a Side on this one and do the Same as you

Petro007 wrote:u idiot WE WILL WIN THIS WAR, Donetsk and Lugansk will be ours and your infiltrator terrorists will be driven out.

Good start, insulting peoples from your second post.

I'm afraid i can't agree with that, on the contrary, so far the performance of the ukrainian army is not terribly better than the ridiculed performance of say arab militaries against the israelis or the US. But this must be because Porky's troops are fighting so that their country, including Donetsk and Lugansk, to be mere puppets and vassals of US, and this while literally legalizing neo-fascist thugs like the Right Sektor!  But the novorussians fight for their independence, for NOT becoming vassals and puppets, and NOT have their resource rich lands being robbed by US corporations, and ultimately become a springboard for such an attack against Russia itself. Make no mistake, there must be russian involvement here, but i think now it is more volunteer based than officially sanctioned. I bet anything you like that the russian government is not sending (as in ordering) anyone there, thought surely there is a degree of support given to the novorussians, but there are plenty of volunteers. There are russian soldiers and veterans in Russia who truly think helping the novorussians fighting against US puppets that want to ultimately destroy their country (Russia) is worthwhile. Think of the great Anatoly Lebed, if he was still alive today i bet he would have resigned from the army and  be LEADING the novorussians from the front!

Unfortunately, your country now (or  what is left of it) is a mere puppet of US, this because of the cowardice of your politicians, oligarchs and those who support them. And because of this cowardice, now you lost Crimea (apparently it wasn't really ukrainian anyway, but if your politicians wouldn't have sold their country to the americans, the russians would have never annexed it), your economy is in shambles, and your country is a warzone. Ukraine is becoming a failed state.

War is horrible, but this is the sad price your country pays for cowardice and lack of moral strength of it's citizens.

Petro007 wrote:u idiot WE WILL WIN THIS WAR, Donetsk and Lugansk will be ours and your infiltrator terrorists will be driven out.

you can't be idiot by not being a HOHOL. your'e lowlife form of 'humanoid'. you're more like jewkrainian siding with not-so-united states of murica, and well known ukrainian prostitute getting daily tours around european bordell's. if you don't want to be slavic but ridiculously trying to be "white enought" for anglo-saxons - for which you're nothing but somewhere between blacks and arabs - then I can't feel more sorry for you than I do.

you will lose this war and you will see why. it is not Russia fault that your compatriots are idiots.

Poland, Baltics Urge NATO to Target Russia with Europe’s Ballistic Missile ‘Shield’
MOSCOW, August 24 (RIA Novosti) - Several NATO member states have reportedly thrown their weight behind an agenda of targeting Russia with the US-controlled ballistic missile “shield,” which is being built in Europe to allegedly guard the European Union against Iran, Germany’s Der Spiegel said Sunday.

According to the German daily, the push comes from Poland and the Baltic trio of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia who claim they “feel threatened by Russia’s intervention into Ukraine.”......
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140824/192298970/Poland-Baltics-Urge-NATO-to-Target-Russia-with-Europes-Ballistic.html

Well f#&@, there not even trying to hide it anymore.   

AlfaT8 wrote:

Poland, Baltics Urge NATO to Target Russia with Europe’s Ballistic Missile ‘Shield’
MOSCOW, August 24 (RIA Novosti) - Several NATO member states have reportedly thrown their weight behind an agenda of targeting Russia with the US-controlled ballistic missile “shield,” which is being built in Europe to allegedly guard the European Union against Iran, Germany’s Der Spiegel said Sunday.

According to the German daily, the push comes from Poland and the Baltic trio of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia who claim they “feel threatened by Russia’s intervention into Ukraine.”......
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140824/192298970/Poland-Baltics-Urge-NATO-to-Target-Russia-with-Europes-Ballistic.html

Well f#&@, there not even trying to hide it anymore.   

Everyone who had two brain cells could see through that ruse from the beginning, if they want missiles on Russia's borders then they should be met with in kind...Time to pull out of the INF treaty!

Сводки от ополчения Новороссии
24.08.14. Сообщение от ополчения.

"Командование ополчения провело классическую операцию по окружению "зарвавшейся" группировки противника (полная аналогия Сталинграда). Главный удар от Моспино. Вспомагательный из Успенки.
Сегодня официально было оглашено, что теперь это регулярная армия. Операцию проводили три штурмовые пехотные бригады. Отдельный пехотный полк. Два танковых батальона. Восемь артиллерийских дивизионов. Пехоту усиливали около 80 танков, БМП, БТР до 150 единиц, 36 САУ, 36 "Град", "Ураган", 50 буксируемых гаубиц.
Дальше наступление будет развиваться до Мариуполя (скорость зависит от сопротивления, которое будут оказывать окруженные части). На севере наступление будет не столь быстрым."

Сводки от ополчения Новороссии
24.08.14. 12:22. Сообщение от штаба ополчения.

"В ходе последних боёв нам удалось освободить следующие населённые пункты: Новодворное, Агрономическое, Новокатериновка, Осыково, Кленовка, Строитель, Ленинское. Сегодня армией ДНР в ходе наступления было завершено блокирование мощной группировки карателей в районе населённых пунктов Войковский, Кутейниково, Благодатное, Алексеевское, Успенка и Ульяновское. Взяты в кольцо значительных силы противника, а именно, штаб 8 армейского корпуса, 28-я и 30-я механизированные бригады, а также 95-я аэромобильная бригада вооруженных сил Украины. В тоже время были окружены около 5 тыс. военнослужащих ВС Украины, а также около 50 танков, более 200 боевых бронированных машин (БМП, БТР, БМД), около 50 реактивных систем залпового огня "Град" и "Ураган", более 100 артиллерийских орудий и миномётов. В ходе контрнаступления сополчению удалось уничтожить более 150 украинских военных, батарею установок "Смерч" (4 шт.), 12 установок "Град", 17 танков, более 30 боевых бронированных машин, около 50 автомобилей с боеприпасами. В настоящее время в районе населённого пункта Оленовское идут ожесточенные бои между силами ополчения и украинскими карателями."

Novorussian army successfully encircled around 5000 Ukrainian soldiers, who still have a lot of equipment like 50 tanks, 200 BMPs and BTRs, 50 MRLSs and around 100 guns and mortars.

Anyway, Novorussian army become a real army and they form 3 infantry brigades, also they equip 2 tank battalions and 8 artillery battalions. They have around 80 tanks, 150 BMPs and BTRs, 36 SP howitzers, 36 Grads and Uragans and 50 towed howitzers. They will soon capture enough equipment to form armored division.

With Kharkov on side of Novorussia they could depend on themselves with armour producing and maintaining.

I wonder if they have any possibility of producing ammunition, rifles, machine guns and mortars in Luhansk or Donetsk? It would be useful for them to have couple thousand rifles and ammo for them on their disposal, rather than counting on Ukr army for equipping Novorussian army. Going offensive means less possibilities for creating new cauldrons.

In Lugansk is Topaz factory, which produce Kolchuga ELINT complexes andd as I know Novorussian army months ago get 1 ELINT complex in Torez factory, but after it, they never show this complex, so nobody knows if it is operational and if it is still there or destroyed. Novorussia also have 1 chemical factory, which produce gun rounds and rockets. They also have many metal factories and they produce many mortars and 1 barel rocket launchers for Grad rockets, which are more home made and not standard serial weapons. They for sure have enough engineers and technicians to repair tanks and other equipment and produce spare parts for them.

It's not on there website yet, but apparently the BBC has been trying to promote a new Ukrainian news channel called I kid thy not, Ukraine Today, i mean talk about desperate.  

THIS IS NOT A CIVIL WAR but a FOREIGN INVASION of the Ukrainian territory. WE CAN WIN IT. WE just need more support from NATO... more advisors, more training, more equipment. We need Leopard-2s, F-16s anti tank missiles, recon drones. If United States Arny could deploy in Eastern Ukraine, it should.

For 20 years we have been kept in backwardness and stagnation by RU and now Putin huylo wasnts to dismantle our country. How much disgrace is enough???

Please, don't feed the trolls. No one can change his mind or prove anything...

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Petro007 wrote:THIS IS NOT A CIVIL WAR but a FOREIGN INVASION of the Ukrainian territory. WE CAN WIN IT. WE just need more support from NATO... more advisors, more training, more equipment. We need Leopard-2s, F-16s anti tank missiles, recon drones. If United States Arny could deploy in Eastern Ukraine, it should.

For 20 years we have been kept in backwardness and stagnation by RU and now Putin huylo wasnts to dismantle our country. How much disgrace is enough???

Now what do you think you will have more money?How is your economy?

we WILL have more money. Well, mayve not from the day 1 but in 10-15 years integration with EU and USA will give results. Look at the Baltics, Poles, Slovaks etc. ALL of them had since 1990 very high economic and we are in continuous shithole since independence Just look at ANY set of economic data - everyone else is growing except US and out GDP barely changed since 20 years. Your beloved kacapistan would look like us except that they got oil and they like to play being rich.

putin huylo must stop supporting these petty banana states now he sends tanks, rockets and trained terrorist agents to prevent out country from westernizing but his wickedness is now exposed everyone now knows his true face its just that NATO must stop being nice to kacaps and take real action they must start sendin tanks and sf forces as well to whip the ass of putin huylo abd his terrorists instead of just sending helmets and other stuff

In 15 years from now there will be no EU and USA will be totally bankrupt.
The amount of Nazi-zionist idiocy is staggering.
But I am done with the guy I got the one and only information I could possibly get.
Interesting that they are prepared to wait 15 years, they know that their friends are done,
but their inferiority complex is irresistible.

I am an American without a drop of Russian blood. Let me tell our friendly Ukrainian nationalist poster a little secret: No one is sending American tanks to rescue Kiev. You see, we really don't care all that much about Ukraine. There is no way in hell we are trading New York or DC for Kiev and you see, Russia has nukes, lots of them. Easy to miscalculate once you go down the military road. So don't hold your breath waiting for the US cavalry to show up. Even our, and the Europeans, patience with economic aid will be limited. The Germans are not going to be writing checks for 42 million Ukrainian welfare babies for very long. They have enough on their plate with existing EU freeloaders. That is why the German minister makes comments about the federalization of Ukraine being the only solution. Let's be blunt: Ukraine is not a sovereign country. You are just attempting to trade one set of rulers in Moscow for another in London and New York. They'll work it out among themselves and cut some kind of deal but at the end of the day you are going to have to live with and accommodate the interests of Russia.

Sorry man, I'm not fan of Putin, but Your country is fucked up by itself. It's still stuck in 90ies. You face problems we all solved in 90ies. I've been to Ukraine quite few times I still remember how it was after Orange revolution. Same corrupt shithole, but people there were quite optimistic.
I'm originally from Baltics and economy there is not so great, corruption is bit more controlled than in Russia, but overall, it's not something to brag about. Some benefits while being in EU are visible, but leaves so much to be wanted. And I love my country, but I hate what's going with it.
To actually westernise You should actually change Your mentality. Your self loving right wing fanatics are not even close compared to for our hardcore European nationalists And now there are shitloads of irregulars with weapons. After this conflict settles and NatGuard fellas will go home You'll face real war. That's why You will have to purge Your government, they are the ones that hold You back, they are the ones who let west and east play with You.  
I know emotions are high for You, but calm the fuck up. Contribute from the other side of the fence, post interesting developments as we don't have any Ukrainian members here.

Petro007 wrote:we WILL have more money. Well, mayve not from the day 1 but in 10-15 years integration with EU and USA will give results. Look at the Baltics, Poles, Slovaks etc. ALL of them had since 1990 very high economic and we are in continuous shithole since independence Just look at ANY set of economic data - everyone else is growing except US and out GDP barely changed since 20 years. Your beloved kacapistan would look like us except that they got oil and they like to play being rich.

putin huylo must stop supporting these petty banana states now he sends tanks, rockets and trained terrorist agents to prevent out country from westernizing but his wickedness is now exposed everyone now knows his true face its just that NATO must stop being nice to kacaps and take real action they must start sendin tanks and sf forces as well to whip the ass of putin huylo abd his terrorists instead of just sending helmets and other stuff

As an ethnic Ukrainian myself, you make me sad.

Why join a nation 1000 of KM away to spite your relatives next door?  Add in the fact, Putin isn't to blame for Ukraines failures.  It is Ukraine itself.  Add in the fact that Ukraine under EU won't be doing much better.  Poland barely is functional, and most post soviet nations are so heavily in debt and barely capable of anything.  There are few success stories, rest are failures (Bulgaria, Hungary, Bosnia, etc).  It would have been better to stay neutral and develop oneself for its own people.  But instead, you guys sold your country short.  Now you have Americans running your national energy as an example, and another Oligarch in power (Poroshenko).  Everyone blames Putin because he is an easy target, but no one truly knows what is happening behind the scenes.  And to state he is at fault for what is happening is a joke, as majority of these fighters are Ukrainian, not Russian or whatever.  Ukrainian nationality.

And yes, no one truly cares about Ukraine outside of maybe Poland (even though the average Polish person compares Ukraine to UK's Australia - A nation of thieves and murderers.  But hey, it is your choice.  But don't forget: Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the likes are facing major economic issues, and are part of the EU.  Major economic issues.  Having another strain that is Ukraine could be the weight that breaks the camels back.

Edit: but, my Ukrainian friend, let us put this into perspective.  Russia is now obtaining Allies that are going to end up replacing EU and US in economics.  They already replace them in manpower.  India and China are both interested in joint development with Russia, and these two are the fastest growing nations on earth, next to Brazil.  As well, if you want to ask nations who have had heavy political influence by the US, ask most latin American countries.  There is a term coined because of this: Gringo Go Home.  It was popular in Bolivia at one point, Nicaragua, Venezuela, etc.  I personally know a man who was imprisoned by General Pinochet, a puppet from US that was planted after their elected leader was overthrown.  Does this sound familiar?  It sounds like Ukraine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

What made Poland more successful though, compared to most other post soviet countries, was its privatization of small and medium businesses, and lax laws regarding owning a business. This in turn, brought a wave of privatization in the nation, and a huge influx of additional revenue from taxation. They also fixed their tax laws. But, Ukraine could have done the exact same thing themselves. But failed to do so, and Russia is no blame because they don't deal with Ukraines laws. Add in the fact that Poland is still used as cheap labor and the average Polish that isn't a CEO is still leaving to other countries (London or USA) in order to make a semi living. Bosnia is not quite in EU yet, but even then, they are trying very hard and what do they have to show for it? Not much.

Take a look at the EU debt clock: http://www.eudebtclock.org/

When these countries left the Soviet Union/Warsaw pact, they had little to no debt. Now their debt is increasing. Eventually, they will have to pay it back. How and when? Don't know. There is also growing issues in Germany, whom everyone has already comes to terms with as being the main bank of the EU (being at they are the wealthiest) is now facing its economic issues of having to help prop up the failing nations in EU.

The reason why Poland and baltic states have seen progress in their economies above the average EU nations..
Is Because US can manipulate their allies economies .. they can for example ask their american business to all of
them move to X or Y country they need to help.  But at the same time they can do the opposite and not only remove their capital from any nation but also Sanctions to them.. as they are now trying to do Russia.

Germany is now on recession ,Italy too..  Portugal ,Greece ,ciprus ,spain in very bad shape their economies..
What makes you think. .MR Ukrainian.. that your case will be different? that that the west will pay your debt and
gas bills?  your prime minister.. who looks like gonzo from sesame street kids movie ,told yesterday that Ukraine
economy cannot survive without Russian business.  

So you are living in a fantasy man.. you really think Ukraine can do ,what no other European country can..
and that is totally cut trade relations with Russia. you really believe that the Americans care about Ukrainians..
if they care so much ,why they don't send their army to help you fight the rebels?  IF Victoria Nuland who paid $5 billion to finance the coup in kiev.. why She does't pay kiev Gas bills now? What are the americans waiting to help
Ukraine and fix their economy?

For the only reason US wants ukraine is to fight Russia to the last blood of ukrainian people. The Americans Government are only interested in maintaining their world leadership and become the Only super power.. nothing
more and nothing else. And Russia stand in their way.. because Russia oppose NATO wars and takes a huge chunk
of their weapon business. The Billions India spend buying Russian weapons.. is money that US ,Europe and Israel miss.. The west simply wants to use Ukraine to sabotage Russia economy and danger to its security at the expense of the destruction of your own country.

You are being used as simply as that. Had Ukraine be located its territory in western europe..far from Russia.. they will have absolutely no interest in you. Ukraine is simply being used by US and major allies to contain Russia and sabotage their economy.. They will love to see Russia invading with their tanks and army..and killing millions. wake up dude.. is not late.

IF Ukrainians were more smarter they will become a neutral nation.. neither EU ,neither Russia.. just like Findland.
That way you will continue having control of your country while can have Business with both. Also do business with China who have a lot of money.. Privatization yes.. but without trading your Independence and authority. And keep 51% control of all your more profitable business.

sepheronx wrote:

Petro007 wrote:we WILL have more money. Well, mayve not from the day 1 but in 10-15 years integration with EU and USA will give results. Look at the Baltics, Poles, Slovaks etc. ALL of them had since 1990 very high economic and we are in continuous shithole since independence Just look at ANY set of economic data - everyone else is growing except US and out GDP barely changed since 20 years. Your beloved kacapistan would look like us except that they got oil and they like to play being rich.

putin huylo must stop supporting these petty banana states now he sends tanks, rockets and trained terrorist agents to prevent out country from westernizing but his wickedness is now exposed everyone now knows his true face its just that NATO must stop being nice to kacaps and take real action they must start sendin tanks and sf forces as well to whip the ass of putin huylo abd his terrorists instead of just sending helmets and other stuff

As an ethnic Ukrainian myself, you make me sad.

Why join a nation 1000 of KM away to spite your relatives next door?  Add in the fact, Putin isn't to blame for Ukraines failures.  It is Ukraine itself.  Add in the fact that Ukraine under EU won't be doing much better.  Poland barely is functional, and most post soviet nations are so heavily in debt and barely capable of anything.  There are few success stories, rest are failures (Bulgaria, Hungary, Bosnia, etc).  It would have been better to stay neutral and develop oneself for its own people.  But instead, you guys sold your country short.  Now you have Americans running your national energy as an example, and another Oligarch in power (Poroshenko).  Everyone blames Putin because he is an easy target, but no one truly knows what is happening behind the scenes.  And to state he is at fault for what is happening is a joke, as majority of these fighters are Ukrainian, not Russian or whatever.  Ukrainian nationality.

Ukraine will never be accepted as an EU member only for one reason. And that reason is the same reason like for any other European country.

People should first understand what the EU actually is. It was never designed to bring prosperity to countries. The EU was invented because the entire human finance system is made by Printed money that comes always with interest. So you have a money system where Actual money is always lower to the debts. And to payback the banksters who printing the money the EU was invented. As long a country has not enough goldman sucks banksters running the major banks in a specific countries, those specific countries will never be accepted in the EU, because if they were accepted the money those bankrupt countries would recieve out of ESM (Euro Stability Mechanism) would never end back by the Goldman sucks banksters, but actually by the people or at least by banksters that are not on Western side.

Ukraine currently has not enough Goldman sucks banksters but some golbin who are either rubbing money from people into own or into some others pocket, but not the pockets of US or Brussels.

If you have enough Goldman sucks banksters running your major countries banks then you have fullfilled the requirement for EU acceptance, but never without fullfilling this criteria.

So for you little uneducated Parasha-enko loving nationalist, as soon as the EU is accepted in EU, prepare for lower wages, lower pensions, higher taxes, lower living standards. Because your country was chosen to be looted and raped while people are getting so brainwashed to actually cheer from joy while getting looted and raped.

Petro007 wrote:THIS IS NOT A CIVIL WAR but a FOREIGN INVASION of the Ukrainian territory. WE CAN WIN IT. WE just need more support from NATO... more advisors, more training, more equipment. We need Leopard-2s, F-16s anti tank missiles, recon drones. If United States Arny could deploy in Eastern Ukraine, it should.

For 20 years we have been kept in backwardness and stagnation by RU and now Putin huylo wasnts to dismantle our country. How much disgrace is enough???

Well, this NATO soldier here has a reality check for you buddy. "We" E.U NATO soldiers think you guys ravaging eastern ukraine are a bunch of savages that behave even worse as the U.S millitary in Iraq/afghanistan. And Ukraine is not part of NATO and it will never be after you people blown up half of your own country. and "we" as NATO troops do actually take notice of the BM's used against civilian targets and the use of white phosporous against civilian centers, not even mentioning the reckless use of Grad's and other artillery on urban area's.


Ukraine will never receive high-grade weaponry, you know why?. Because europe does not sell their weaponry to countrys that use it against their own people. Rheinmetall and Krauss maffei for example do not like to see their iconic Leo-2 product pass by on the media shooting at civilian targets. its bad for their business image.
And no NATO cavalary will come either to save you people from the mess you yourselves created. NATO article 5 is not applicable for ukraine and it will never be.

But by all means, keep believing the Americans, Rasmussen and E.U polliticians bullshit that you are going to get help from NATO. and the sooner west Ukraine starts talking with east ukraine for an political solution the better.