The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

TR1 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

TR1 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but if anyone has actual evidence and not some pictures were we cannot even verify location or a commercial sat image, I would say it is all hearsay.  I know they received none lethal aid from Russian citizens in the past (the picture of commercial body armor and helmets stacked in a pile).  But outside of that, lack of evidence would dictate that they do not have a case against Russia.  Although, with the supposed shelling from Russian boarders and possible air defense systems being used, I would believe.  I mean, with Ukraine dropping bombs in Russian territory and planes going into its territory dropping a bomb, do deserve to be dealt with harshly.

Truckloads of TOTALLY NOT ARMED Russian citizens crossing the border with TOTALLY NOT EX-RUSSIAN ARMY EQUIPMENT.

Enough denial. IDK about artillery and what not (though once again, its obvious Russia is selectively not securing its borders), but the flow of personel and weapons across the border is clear.

And once again TR1 you are a hypocrite, not once, not a single time you have blamed US in Ukraine,Syria,Lybia,Iraq or whereever, they are obviously financing,supplying,training and sending terrorists into countries that do not ass lick US, you alway tried to blame Jihadists for it like it is some kind of religious nonsense and not the origin within the US.

Put your head already out of US evil empires ass!

We are talking about Russia and Ukraine. WTF does Syria and Iraq and the US have to do with it?

I went to anti-war protests back in 2003, but that is about as relevant to Russia's involvement in Ukraine as the USSR killing millions of Ukrainians.

You are such a classic Putin-bot. Anyone brings up Russia's actions, your response is "BUT DURR US CAN DO WORSE DERP"

Btw, are you a fan of Reagan? Because you are spouting the same "Evil Empire" crap.

TR1 wrote:We are talking about Russia and Ukraine. WTF does Syria and Iraq and the US have to do with it?

I went to anti-war protests back in 2003, but that is about as relevant to Russia's involvement in Ukraine as the USSR killing millions of Ukrainians.

Absolutely everything!

There would not be a fascist Ukraine today when the anglo-saxon scum in Washington did not overthrow the till this date legitimate president of Ukraine.

You are doing it again like you did in Syrian crisis thread, you trying to focus like it something different and US has no part in it and now you are some drama queen typing in CAPS like what russia does is the worst thing in human history like it never happened before.

All Syrian,Lybian,Ukraine,Iraq and Afghanisan wars are all US fault not Russias and Russia has absolutley every right to help rebels to counter Nazis and the anglo saxon scum in Washington! You and your drama b*tch behavior and hypocrisy is just astonishing absolutley no difference than what everyone here saw in John Jew Kohn speeches of false Pretext ridiculing himself or all that anti russian one sided barking of puppies on Mp net.

You are the one that is accusing others of seeing russia through pink glasses and being one sided, but you show exactly the one sided argumentation and total ignorance of the Ukraine conflict pointing with a judgemental finger at russia and at the same time act astunnished how someone can connect US with the ukraine crisis?

I'm not the only one who sees that you are a hypocrite.

And you are acting exactly like paid trolls act on forums, RT comments and everywhere else on MP net, everyone who points out facts is a Putin bot.

People who have no arguments do this kind of replies!

You know what, I take it back. You are not a bot, you are just fanatically nutty.
I was responding to Seraphonx about Russia in Ukraine, and how its obviously involved. I can see even the implication makes you upset though, or you would not be going on an irrelevant rant about how teh US is responsible for all evil and good, just Russia is the counterforce. LOL.

Russia has shat all over Ukrainian sovereignty. No amount of US- hatred will whitewash that, sorry.

TR1 wrote:
Russia has shat all over Ukrainian sovereignty. No amount of US- hatred will whitewash that, sorry.

What about US congress coup in kiev , that they financed ,organized and gave them the training to
overthrow by the use of extreme violence a democratically elected president? A replace them with a pro NATO
leader? Isn't that major breach of Ukraine sovereignty?    

The civil war in Ukraine ,did not began with the take over of Crimea.. but with the takeover in Kiev
with the euromaidan nuts burning buildings and killing police and taking control of government buildings.

TR1 wrote:You know what, I take it back. You are not a bot, you are just fanatically nutty.
I was responding to Seraphonx about Russia in Ukraine, and how its obviously involved. I can see even the implication makes you upset though, or you would not be going on an irrelevant rant about how teh US is responsible for all evil and good, just Russia is the counterforce. LOL.

Only one insante fanatical person i see here and that is the person that does not give a shit about all the dead iraqi people, but when Russia supplies some fire arms to rebels who are GOOD, yes GOOD, they do not walk around kill civilians blame then Porosho-oinko, they do not want to create some religious state of fanatics.

You are a hypocrite trying to bring Russia and the rebels in Donezk who are fighting fascism and genociders of the US and you are comparing them with US financed and created Jihadists, who are using turkey supplied Sarin gas on civilians, heart eating extremists, child soldier warlords and what not.

You are completley dillusional, trying to compare Donezk real Rebels who are fighting for the right thing with US CIA agents who are only there to overthrow governments and destroy as much as possible of the civilian population.

I'm not upset when you mention that Russia supplies rebels. How could i? I don't see any danger or wrong doing in Rebels fight for peace against fascists the US has propagated and set into power since 23 years of brainwashing slavic population on ukraine soil. Actually i see far less support then i would wish for, but i also see the consequences that would come for further support. The support of Russia to the rebels is so small that US has to fabricate false flag attacks to find something to blame Russia for.

US downed the MH17 which is obvious since rebels have no capability to do so, no Acquisition radar no downing of MH17.

Russia has shat all over Ukrainian sovereignty. No amount of US- hatred will whitewash that, sorry.

Russia has shit all over Ukrainian sovereignity?
Really was it Russia and russian politicians shitting on Ukrainians sovereignity for bribing and propagating "peacefull" demonstrants on Maidan?

The sovereignity of Ukraine ended when US politicians and their EU slaves have interefered in a souvereigns countries demonstration against the government that was the point where the entire Sovereignity of Ukraine was violated!

But yes lets always do the measering of wrong doing with American measurements!

You are the only fanatic person right now. You have absolutley ZERO arguments that have any point whatsoever. You are even asking so stupid questions and i quote here

"

WTF has US to do with Ukraine situation?

That is how asking what has the men with blood and big knife in his hands to do with the stabbed body lying on the ground?

US downed the airliner now? LMAO!

Fascism, genocide, LOL.

This is why I don't respond to such nonsense with more than one liners. It doesn't deserve anymore.

TR1 wrote:Truckloads of TOTALLY NOT ARMED Russian citizens crossing the border with TOTALLY NOT EX-RUSSIAN ARMY EQUIPMENT.

Enough denial. IDK about artillery and what not (though once again, its obvious Russia is selectively not securing its borders), but the flow of personel and weapons across the border is clear.

There is no question that Russia is providing a little help. To believe otherwise is like believing in revolutions.

But the amount of help is tiny and not as extensive as your typing in uppercase may suggest.

Why?

Look at the map I posted a couple of pages ago. Literally, a few minutes of Russian artillery fire would annihilate the Nazis trapped in the southern pocket and relieve the Novorussian groupings that are engaged there and are very badly needed elsewhere.

The balance of forces currently is so precarious that if those Novorussian groupings could have gotten relieved just a week ago, the Nazis defeat would have been complete by now.

But the Russians haven't provided those few minutes of artillery fire, and a life and death situation precariously hangs in the balance.

I know the Russians aren't doing all of this randomly. To believe otherwise is like believing in revolutions. But that's another subject.

Tochka is not in production and hasn't been for some time.

It is a 120-150km range ballistic missile system that pretty much replaced FROG-7 in Soviet Service in the mid 1980s.

none of the Ukrainian models would be nuke armed and they likely got so many because most were forward deployed to the west during the cold war.

TR1 wrote:US downed the airliner now? LMAO!

Fascism, genocide, LOL.

This is why I don't respond to such nonsense with more than one liners. It doesn't deserve anymore.

Everyone here on the forum now can see you are a total fanatic of US.

You first deny US involvement and total control of the Maidanuts and now you deny that Fascists are in Ukraine active and have all freedoms to kill people which is proven thousand folds on footage everywhere and now you are denying genocide of russians through this right sector scum, but RUSSIA is sending rebels some fire arms, Go get russia its a rogue state omg, poor ukraine sovereignity!


You are disgusting and 100% indoctrinated in american propaganda.

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:US downed the airliner now? LMAO!

Fascism, genocide, LOL.

This is why I don't respond to such nonsense with more than one liners. It doesn't deserve anymore.

Everyone here on the forum now can see you are a total fanatic of US.

You first deny US involvement and total control of the Maidanuts and now you deny that Fascists are in Ukraine active and have all freedoms to kill people which is proven thousand folds on footage everywhere and now you are denying genocide of russians through this right sector scum, but RUSSIA is sending rebels some fire arms, Go get russia its a rogue state omg, poor ukraine sovereignity!


You are disgusting and 100% indoctrinated in american propaganda.

I might know why TR1 is trolling, but I am not certain.

I don't think he should be banned though.

Guys, Iraq signs $1 billion USD contract to buy Russian weapons   

http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/urgent-iraq-signs-1-billion-usd-contract-buy-russian-weapons/

Here comes $1B, easy money.

I see a shopping frenzy in the Arab countries in near future, time to re-arm the middle east baby.

Sadly Russia has been very tight ass arming their own people in Novorossiya. Imagine if Strelkov have a few hundreds of TOS-1, I don't think Porky will last more than 1 week.

I saw some guy above saying Russia had been sending truckload of military hardware to Novorossiya, anyone please tell me why so far we haven't seen any modern Russian hardware in action. Why the rebels are using 1960's ancient soviet era rubbish ??

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:US downed the airliner now? LMAO!

Fascism, genocide, LOL.

This is why I don't respond to such nonsense with more than one liners. It doesn't deserve anymore.

Everyone here on the forum now can see you are a total fanatic of US.

You first deny US involvement and total control of the Maidanuts and now you deny that Fascists are in Ukraine active and have all freedoms to kill people which is proven thousand folds on footage everywhere and now you are denying genocide of russians through this right sector scum, but RUSSIA is sending rebels some fire arms, Go get russia its a rogue state omg, poor ukraine sovereignity!


You are disgusting and 100% indoctrinated in american propaganda.

I might know why TR1 is trolling, but I am not certain.

I don't think he should be banned though.

I don't demand any bans, that would be contra productive. That is not mp net where every person who is not aggreeing with US gets reported and/or banned.

He should stay and show people how ridiculous his claims are. Before that i thought he is just a little bit over critical towards russia and not critical enough towards US and their puppets, but that is just not the case, he just uses the exact same double standards and hypocrisy like the anglo saxons in washington do.

So Russia should to genuine rebels who are not terrorists in any sense just a glim of support and that is bad in his eyes and absolutley nothing in comperision what US and NATO dogs have shown support and financial and even Chemical WMD aid to terrorists worth several billions over the years and he has not once had problems with it. It is exactly the opposite and he said it himself, that he can not somehow understand why people can create a link between US actions and the current unrest in Ukraine. Like that is something impossible to connect.

He is just indoctrinated beyond repair, such people will not waken up by reasoning or facts. That is also called Backfire phenomenon. This phenomenon is commonly known among very religious people who believe in creationism and other things that are wrong and will even harder believe in their version when you present them facts and back it up with evidences. Such people will be awakend when the war comes to them and since he is an US citizen that will end in a bloody war against own population. This insane empire tries to avoid its unavoidable death by any means and the only means US knows is wars,wars and more wars. Those wars are the only thing US knows how to recover its dead economy but he whitewashes whatever genocide US does but when Russia supplies some old weapons to rebels and not terrorists then it is bad, it is so bad that he even has to write it in anger and use CAPS.

That guy is just in panic, living the 5 stages of grief and he is currently in stage one, denial. Which is actually already to late to live in denial, eve the US empire is in 2/3rd stage Anger and tries to Bargain with its faith by creating another major war that could recover US economy.

US is doomed and so are all people who hold on to it.

onwiththewar wrote:Guys, Iraq signs $1 billion USD contract to buy Russian weapons   

http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/urgent-iraq-signs-1-billion-usd-contract-buy-russian-weapons/

Here comes $1B, easy money.

I see a shopping frenzy in the Arab countries in near future, time to re-arm the middle east baby. ??

IRAQ is a gold mine for Russia..  the Zionist powers have been trying for a long time to remove maliki
from power for his close cooperation with Russia ,IRAN and Syria. and refusing to use its nation to attack Syria.
Russia however needs to dramatically improve its Weapon Industry capabilities.  Not just Antey , but also United Aircraft corporation , and every other weapon industry.. For example Syria ordered 12 Migs-29SM in 2007 and paid for them.. and Russia have yet to deliver a single one.. they said that by 2017 the order will be finished.  

I don't know whats wrong with the Russian industry.. they do have things to sells but their terrible performance
in their industry , is costing them money.. because they take too much time to deliver any order.. 10 years to deliver 12 migs-29 SM is totally ridiculous.  And people need to be fired for that. Russia could eclipse US weapon industry is they had a much better shape industry... Antey new facilities is a step in the right direction.. but is not enough.. Russia is also sucking very much in competitive sales staff. There is no reason why any non Nato nation should be buying F-16s ,when they can get superior Migs or sukhois jets..for lower price.

Cyberspec wrote:Some speculation that the 4 x Tochka missiles were shot down by Pantsir's from Russian territory

Ι doupt if pantsir 57E6 missile can intercept a Tochka..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd8_1406676733

Please can someone post the free report from stratfor here? For some reason I can't open it today. Thanks!

anyone notice how since the israel decided to invade GAZA.. all reports about the killing of civilians in E Ukraine
by kiev have vanished  from the west..  Is very suspicious , how even American media report in detail what
happens in Gaza.. but not a single casualty of civilians reported in Ukraine. and why im not surprised.   

Ukraine is the most important war of US ,probably since world war 2 invasion on Germany. IS extremely valuable
asset for them for their location at Russian border ,and for the nation being now in control of Right wing neoNazis
radicals.   Contrary to the Gaza war.. that US have no interest or anything to win. in Ukraine is a totally the opposite.  

When you see media like Aljazeera showing videos of UN human rights spokeman so called activist crying in  camera..



his crocodile tears make me think of..



Because thats exactly what so called Human Rights watch organizations do ,when NATO was bombing Libya
or when Obama sponsored Rebels were killing civilians in Syria.
People that didn't cried a single tear for Syria that have 150,000 people killed.. then you can only see the BS
Alarms . All this Gaza war,even though is terrible and civilian and children killed too.. seems like the entire
thing only seeks to cover the ukraine conflict and the indiscriminate bombing of civilians cities. So they are sacrificing Israel image for saving kiev image and get people attentions away of the ukraine conflict.

Vann7 wrote:anyone notice how since the israel decided to invade GAZA.. all reports about the killing of civilians in E Ukraine
by kiev have vanished  from the west..  Is very suspicious , how even American media report in detail what
happens in Gaza.. but not a single casualty of civilians reported in Ukraine. and why im not surprised.   

Ukraine is the most important war of US ,probably since world war 2 invasion on Germany. IS extremely valuable
asset for them for their location at Russian border ,and for the nation being now in control of Right wing neoNazis
radicals.   Contrary to the Gaza war.. that US have no interest or anything to win. in Ukraine is a totally the opposite.  

When you see media like Aljazeera showing videos of UN human rights spokeman so called activist crying in  camera..



People that didn't cried a single tear for Syria that have 150,000 people killed.. then you can only see the BS
Alarms . All this Gaza war,even though is terrible and civilian and children killed too.. seems like the entire
thing only seeks to cover the ukraine conflict and the indiscriminate bombing of civilians cities. So they are sacrificing Israel image for saving kiev image and get people attentions away of the ukraine conflict.

That is nothing new, actually a very old method.

If you run into a political situation like in Syria where the US could not win in any sense, losing it diplomatically, with terrorist scum which lost there and all the hard evidences against US and all false flag operations and actors to blame Assad and Russia all that has failed. The reaction of people around the world to that situation was the US losing its face and they did not have no more energy to convince people otherwise nor did they any progress with terrorists to overthrow Assad, so they needed to create somewhere else tensions to focus on them and control their MSM on that situation that would lose the tension and occupy peoples minds with another problem.

Conflicts are often created to lose other tensions that run into a dead end.

Very interesting article..  

According to new information , there is a US pentagon general leading the Ukie army war ,and got wounded
with some americans killed. He was leading the entire battle plan until was wounded and it is speculated that
that is the real reason for US wanting now a cease of fire ,to allow them to regroup ,also talk of American
blacks in the combat zone.

Tuesday, July 29 at the social networks reported: “In the area of intelligence and Raisins subversive group (RDG) militia attacked a convoy of U.S. military trainers. Killed three U.S. officers and wounded General Key Randy Allen, who commands the punitive operation “. And right after that John Kerry requested ceasefire.

Another interesting thing the article mention is that there is apparently private discussion behind the scene between US and Russia.. and that Russia is threatening to release irrefutable evidence they have of who shot down
the malasyan plane if they continue with their actions in Ukraine..  The article says that the same day the general was wounded was when Kerry ordered a cease of fire.. Kiev military planes did it..and there is more than one source of evidence and witness ,that military planes where flying close to the malasyan plane with it was in fire.


http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2014/07/pentagon-general-randy-allen-key-wounded-in-ukraine-2453438.html

Also something not told in the article ,but that is my guessing ,is that there US congress is now in process to try to get Obama to court , allegedly for "Obama Care" but this all can be a cover for the news of US special forces killed in Ukraine and General wounded and the entire Malasyan plane false flag incident that many already are now saying Kiev did it.  It should be Obbivious the Kiev nazis did it.. When you look how complex is the command control of a Buk System.. totally crazy with many buttons here and there , looks like a mini futuristic space station.
There is not chance any Rebel will know how to even turn on the computer of the system. And you mix that with the fact that the weather was clear that day and cameras could clearly film the plane in flames.. the theory of the
"Mistake" is impossible ..because it was easy to see with plain sight was a civilian plane and simply because Rebels do not have knowledge to operate Buks.. and any professional Operator that day will have know it was a civilian plane with ease. is part of their training. No such a thing like mistake..

also can anyone explain this information with map?

http://vg-news.ru/n/110237

and here apparently talks about 10 american soldiers killed from the 180 group that came..

http://vg-news.ru/n/110397

That is about as believable as the Elder Protocols of Zion.

And the plot thickens..

NEW MH17 SENSATION: German experts point finger at Ukrainian air-force jets.

="Surface to air missile attack ruled out as calibre of cockpit bullet holes puts Ukraine pilots in the frame for MH17 murders This is what a German pilot-cum-air technology expert Peter Haisenko has just published on the subject of the MH17 disaster (my emphases):  ‘The misfortune of the Malaysian MH 017 is known to all. The flight recorder is in England and is being evaluated. What can come of this? May be more than you want to accept….if you look at the image of Cockpit-Fragments, this picture is certainly shocking. Entry And Exit holes from bullets in the area of the Cockpit. This is not speculation, but analysis of clear facts: the cockpit shows clear evidence of bullet holes. You can see the entry holes and some exit points. The edges of the bullet holes are bent inwards, these are much smaller and round in shape. A 30mm calibre. The exit holes are less well formed and the edges are torn outwards. Furthermore it is visible that the exit holes have torn the double aluminium skin and bent them outwards. That is to say, splinters from inside the cockpit blew through the outside of the cabin. The open rivets have also been bent outwards….There is only one conclusion one can make, and that is that this: the aircraft was not hit by a missile. The damage to the aircraft is exclusively in the cockpit area….  

more...

http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-mh17-sensation-german-experts-point-finger-at-ukrainian-air-force-jets/

TR1 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

TR1 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I keep reading on mp.net of Russian agression this and that, but no one has evidence to back up claims.  What aggression?

Either Russia is incredibly incompetent at securing its borders....or.....fill in the rest.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but if anyone has actual evidence and not some pictures were we cannot even verify location or a commercial sat image, I would say it is all hearsay.  I know they received none lethal aid from Russian citizens in the past (the picture of commercial body armor and helmets stacked in a pile).  But outside of that, lack of evidence would dictate that they do not have a case against Russia.  Although, with the supposed shelling from Russian boarders and possible air defense systems being used, I would believe.  I mean, with Ukraine dropping bombs in Russian territory and planes going into its territory dropping a bomb, do deserve to be dealt with harshly.

Truckloads of TOTALLY NOT ARMED Russian citizens crossing the border with TOTALLY NOT EX-RUSSIAN ARMY EQUIPMENT.

Enough denial. IDK about artillery and what not (though once again, its obvious Russia is selectively not securing its borders), but the flow of personel and weapons across the border is clear.

The problem I see is that there is still a lack of actual evidence. I do believe Russia is turning a blind eye on people crossing into Ukraine to fight but as said, it is a belief. Like believing in God or not.

What we do know is US involvement.

- audio evidence of Nuland talking about who to rule
- evidence that US media poined out of CIA officers going to Ukraine
- Obama and Kerry did not release their evidence of the MH17 plane being shot down by rebels, but Russia supplied their data
- 10 questions asked but never answered.
- Lack of investigation of the alleged sniper who caused this whole mess.
- Yatsenuk leaving parliment due to problems in Ukraine gov.
- Ukrainian troops still fighting with rebels near crash site to gain control even though they were told to stop.
- US, EU and CAD politicians joined up with the protestors and denounced Yanukovich
- Armed people overthrow Yanukovich and considered legal, but people vote for Uniting Crimea with Russia is deemed not legal (ass backwards I say)

It is kinda easy to blame US since they have a history:
- Faking evidence of Iraq wmd to go to war
- Fighting in Astan in order to get Osama when he was known to be in pakistan for years
- killing a large amount of civillians in Yemen and Pakistan and calling them collateral damage
- Striking Saraejvo for 72 hours with planes and mostly killed civillians.
- overthrowing elected leaders in Chile and Iran to instal who they want.
- Supportung rebels with US weapons in Syria whom ended up being ISIS and now striking Iraq.

They have a large list. Larger than Russia, for the horrendous stuff they done in recent years (excluding general pinochet and Shah). Also, are good at instigating problems in other countries by using NGO's like USAid (proven in Russia and India. Aap party was being funded by US).

TR1 wrote:That is about as believable as the Elder Protocols of Zion.

Remember the 2008 war and the dead black guys whom had US passports? And whom were seen in anotger video dancing with Georgian troops.

More likely mercenaries, but still.