The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:Is it treu that Ukraine has attacked russian armoured vehicles.

Link please.

Our news says it, fragmachine Said it aswell.

But his statement is that is what western news is saying.  Can be 100% BS, which it would be, as no images or anything appeared and Ukraine would have used this opportunity for PR gain.

I was just asking if it was treu.

Oh, if that is the case, then who knows. Right now, it is what Pokyshenko is saying to the western Media but so far, no images or anything, no statements from Russian side. As well, I find it hard to believe that Ukrainians are capable of precision striking with artillery, against a moving target, when they cannot even do proper targeting with artillery against a stationary target.

But this claims did do a couple of things: Ruble increased in value again, and Gold jumped up by $100.

sepheronx wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:Is it treu that Ukraine has attacked russian armoured vehicles.

Link please.

Our news says it, fragmachine Said it aswell.

But his statement is that is what western news is saying.  Can be 100% BS, which it would be, as no images or anything appeared and Ukraine would have used this opportunity for PR gain.

I was just asking if it was treu.

Oh, if that is the case, then who knows.  Right now, it is what Pokyshenko is saying to the western Media but so far, no images or anything, no statements from Russian side.  As well, I find it hard to believe that Ukrainians are capable of precision striking with artillery, against a moving target, when they cannot even do proper targeting with artillery against a stationary target.

But this claims did do a couple of things: Ruble increased in value again, and Gold jumped up by $100.

I agree about the artillery thing.

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:Is it treu that Ukraine has attacked russian armoured vehicles.

Link please.

Our news says it, fragmachine Said it aswell.

"Your news" is nothing more than a copy paste of CNN and BBC international. They run the show in all EU media. And usually is american reporters or British from BBC or France AP who also present the news. am i right?   

Here is the news..

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

According to Poroshenko and armored convoy enter ukraine in the night and that Ukraine "destroyed most of it".
Even the ambassador of Russia in UK was summoned to explain. But whats the truth in all this.. im sure the possibilities of any of this to be any of this to be true very low. Since according to Kiev they are not bombing civilians either at all.    Seems more like Ukraine is trying to justify the reason they blockade the humanitarian convoy more than anything.  

Another thing is that since the rebels controls a big territory bordering Russia.. it should be very very easy for Russia to enter at night with a big convoy of military and humanitarian trucks and not a single scratch on its paint.
In any case what Kiev is claiming they destroyed is light armored transport vehicles.. which in practice is not impossible with artillery.. IF you really have very good information but since kiev artillery have no precision of any class and even less at night ,the only way they could do it is with sabotage groups and mines.. But again is Kiev who makes the claim , so take with a huge grain salt what they say always.

In my opinion Russia should send the humanitarian convoy regardless of what the west claim or any sanction or break of relations or any risk . Russia must send the trucks at nights with Humanitarian but also with good enough Military help and more reinforcement through different routs using Rebels controlled zones. The million of civilians lives are in danger to die of starving. And RUssia will never forgive itself if thousands civilians die for lack of water and food. FUck NATO ,FUck the EU , they do not care about human lives , or anything but themselves.

For now Russia policy should be to help Novorosiya fighters to hold their positions. as long as needed with any help military or humanitarian they need. Because if the Rebels are defeated.. the kiev junta will gain a false sense of invulnerability that will make them to continue the war against Crimea this time.. So If Russia do not help the rebels to fight , they will be very sorry later since Crimea is next on the line.  After all the west consider Crimea under an occupation and see legitimate Ukraine to fight for it.  Kiev cannot win in a war against Russia.. but they can sabotage Crimea tourism and start terrorist attack against the peninsula.. exactly as they have been doing inside RUssia..with artillery shelling.  

In other words.. If the Rebels defeated.. Crimea can experience the same problems of Israel.. and Crimea turning into a new kind of israel occupied territory with Kiev doing the Hamas role of launching Rockets attacks and Shelling not only to Crimea but also to Sochi. So Russia have a LOT to lose if the Rebels defeated.. because will allow Kiev to focus then in attacking Russia to force them invade and give Russia their Vietnam War.. Because after all , Sabotage to Russian economy is the ultimate goal since NATO knows Kiev have no chance to defeat Russia but they can do a lot of harm to Russian economy. by simply shelling or launching rockets into Crimea or Sochi and later claiming they have nothing to do with it.  

IF the Rebels hold however until the end of year at least or bit more .. with the Russian Help.. It will destroy Kiev economy beyond recovery point.. And once Kiev no longer can pay anyone its salaries.. the nation will disband in many parts ..and the real Civil war will start. The Ukraine army also will disband.   It looks like a terrible thing.. but really is the best thing that can happen for Ukraine.. Only when the NATO puppets are kicked from power or at least lose most control of their country and new neutral leaders responsible Government emerge ,that is not controlled by the west .. Only then will be peace and the war will end and Ukraine will start to recover.

There is also the fact that journalists could not provide any photo evidence even though they were there filming the aid convoy. hmmm. Sounds fishy to me.

OSCE is also along the Russian border with Ukraine, they would have more info, no? Yet are silent.

sepheronx wrote:OSCE is also along the Russian border with Ukraine, they would have more info, no?  Yet are silent.

Most likely it's fake news from "1984". If Russia actually invaded with armor they would have bare minimum SHORAD like Tor-M1 to defeat any PGM's let alone Kiev's sloppy and disgraceful artillery shelling, let alone the fact that the Russian military would mop the floor with the Ukrainian military 100 ways to Sunday!

Ukrainians.. always the same.
All the girls I have met in clubs where nuclear physicists   
No improvisation the same patterns again and again.

Vann7 wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:Is it treu that Ukraine has attacked russian armoured vehicles.

Link please.

Our news says it, fragmachine Said it aswell.

"Your news" is nothing more than a copy paste of CNN and BBC international. They run the show in all EU media. And usually is american reporters or British from BBC or France AP who also present the news. am i right?   

Here is the news..

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

According to Poroshenko and armored convoy enter ukraine in the night and that Ukraine "destroyed most of it".
Even the ambassador of Russia in UK was summoned to explain. But whats the truth in all this.. im sure the possibilities of any of this to be any of this to be true very low. Since according to Kiev they are not bombing civilians either at all.    Seems more like Ukraine is trying to justify the reason they blockade the humanitarian convoy more than anything.  

Another thing is that since the rebels controls a big territory bordering Russia.. it should be very very easy for Russia to enter at night with a big convoy of military and humanitarian trucks and not a single scratch on its paint.
In any case what Kiev is claiming they destroyed is light armored transport vehicles.. which in practice is not impossible with artillery.. IF you really have very good information but since kiev artillery have no precision of any class and even less at night ,the only way they could do it is with sabotage groups and mines.. But again is Kiev who makes the claim , so take with a huge grain salt what they say always.

In my opinion Russia should send the humanitarian convoy regardless of what the west claim or any sanction or break of relations or any risk . Russia must send the trucks at nights with Humanitarian but also with good enough Military help and more reinforcement through different routs using Rebels controlled zones. The million of civilians lives are in danger to die of starving. And RUssia will never forgive itself if thousands civilians die for lack of water and food. FUck NATO ,FUck the EU , they do not care about human lives , or anything but themselves.

For now Russia policy should be to help Novorosiya fighters to hold their positions. as long as needed with any help military or humanitarian they need. Because if the Rebels are defeated.. the kiev junta will gain a false sense of invulnerability that will make them to continue the war against Crimea this time.. So If Russia do not help the rebels to fight , they will be very sorry later since Crimea is next on the line.  After all the west consider Crimea under an occupation and see legitimate Ukraine to fight for it.  Kiev cannot win in a war against Russia.. but they can sabotage Crimea tourism and start terrorist attack against the peninsula.. exactly as they have been doing inside RUssia..with artillery shelling.  

In other words.. If the Rebels defeated.. Crimea can experience the same problems of Israel.. and Crimea turning into a new kind of israel occupied territory with Kiev doing the Hamas role of launching Rockets attacks and Shelling not only to Crimea but also to Sochi. So Russia have a LOT to lose if the Rebels defeated.. because will allow Kiev to focus then in attacking Russia to force them invade and give Russia their Vietnam War.. Because after all , Sabotage to Russian economy is the ultimate goal since NATO knows Kiev have no chance to defeat Russia but they can do a lot of harm to Russian economy. by simply shelling or launching rockets into Crimea or Sochi and later claiming they have nothing to do with it.  

IF the Rebels hold however until the end of year at least or bit more .. with the Russian Help.. It will destroy Kiev economy beyond  recovery point.. And once Kiev no longer can pay anyone its salaries.. the nation will disband in many parts ..and the real Civil war will start. The Ukraine army also will disband.   It looks like a terrible thing.. but really is the best thing that can happen for Ukraine.. Only when the NATO puppets are kicked from power or at least lose most control of their country and new neutral leaders responsible Government emerge ,that is not controlled by the west .. Only then will be peace and the war will end and Ukraine will start to recover.

That was exactly what our media said yes.

Ukrainian Democracy at work!!! Oleh Lyshako punch drunk:   

Gotta love that "democracy"!

Western values...

fragmachine wrote:Our "media" are constantly babbling about Russian army crossing border with Ukraine, Pornoshenko talking about half of Russian armored vehicles destroyed. It raised few questions from my point of view.

1. What's going on with the other "half" of armored vehicles?

2. Why there are not even a single photo confirming incident? It's classified?   

3. Do You think that Russian MoD would be so stupid to send some dozen vehicles against UA army, rather than send 2 300 tanks?

Overall, I think it is a bullshit news. And I just watched it for like half a minute, guess what shit they are bringing for brainwashed crowds doing nothing but watching TV for whole day...

With respect to prolefeed of the sort you are referring to, usually two options should be evaluated.

1- Is the ministry of peace chasing a phantom, and the ministry of truth creating the "newsflash" about it?

or

2- Is it only the ministry of truth that is writing up the "newsflash", and there is even no phantom?


After you guys forced me to click on a ministry of truth link about this "newsflash", and having checked the style of the write-up, it seems to me it is of the second type.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

fragmachine wrote:Our "media" are constantly babbling about Russian army crossing border with Ukraine, Pornoshenko talking about half of Russian armored vehicles destroyed. It raised few questions from my point of view.

1. What's going on with the other "half" of armored vehicles?

2. Why there are not even a single photo confirming incident? It's classified?   

3. Do You think that Russian MoD would be so stupid to send some dozen vehicles against UA army, rather than send 2 300 tanks?

Overall, I think it is a bullshit news. And I just watched it for like half a minute, guess what shit they are bringing for brainwashed crowds doing nothing but watching TV for whole day...

With respect to prolefeed of the sort you are referring to, usually two options should be evaluated.

1- Is the ministry of peace chasing a phantom, and the ministry of truth creating the "newsflash" about it?

or

2- Is it only the ministry of truth that is writing up the "newsflash", and there is even no phantom?


After you guys forced me to click on a ministry of truth link about this "newsflash", and having checked the style of the write-up, it seems to me it is of the second type.

Actually now I think it is of a third type; that is the ministry of peace suffering a defeat, and the ministry of truth creating a "newsflash" claiming a fake victory for the ministry of peace.

Here is the sitrep:

The fascist forces that had burst out of the Lugansk airport pocket, and had made it to Novosvetlovka to provide an impediment to the Russian humanitarian convoy on M04, are currently being routed by the Novorussians, and the fascists have already lost half their armor. Q.E.D.

[quote="Vann7"][quote="Flyingdutchman"][quote="sepheronx"]

Flyingdutchman wrote:

For now Russia policy should be to help Novorosiya fighters to hold their positions. as long as needed with any help military or humanitarian they need. Because if the Rebels are defeated.. the kiev junta will gain a false sense of invulnerability that will make them to continue the war against Crimea this time.. So If Russia do not help the rebels to fight , they will be very sorry later since Crimea is next on the line.  After all the west consider Crimea under an occupation and see legitimate Ukraine to fight for it.  Kiev cannot win in a war against Russia.. but they can sabotage Crimea tourism and start terrorist attack against the peninsula.. exactly as they have been doing inside RUssia..with artillery shelling.  

In other words.. If the Rebels defeated.. Crimea can experience the same problems of Israel.. and Crimea turning into a new kind of israel occupied territory with Kiev doing the Hamas role of launching Rockets attacks and Shelling not only to Crimea but also to Sochi. So Russia have a LOT to lose if the Rebels defeated.. because will allow Kiev to focus then in attacking Russia to force them invade and give Russia their Vietnam War.. Because after all , Sabotage to Russian economy is the ultimate goal since NATO knows Kiev have no chance to defeat Russia but they can do a lot of harm to Russian economy. by simply shelling or launching rockets into Crimea or Sochi and later claiming they have nothing to do with it.  

IF the Rebels hold however until the end of year at least or bit moreer.

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I don't often agree with you, Vann7, but I do agree here.

It's a valid point that many ignore, which is that Kiev Stronkkkk LOL Criminals, might think they are invincible if they win against the rest of the forces in Donbass, which might further lead to Kiev Stronky Boy Junta to attack Crimea and "take what's theirs" according to Porky-shenko.

By the way, can this battle map that is often presented by trusted ? Just asking, because I saw another map today where both Luhansk and Donetsk where surrounded, so I hope that's a wrong map and that the maps that are updated in this thread are correct.

If they do try and taking back Crimea, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Of course the western media will make it look like RU aggression...

By the way, can this battle map that is often presented by trusted ? Just asking, because I saw another map today where both Luhansk and Donetsk where surrounded, so I hope that's a wrong map and that the maps that are updated in this thread are correct.

Can you provide a link to the map that you are referring to?

With respect to the series of maps I have been posting, it should never be a matter of trust. Like any thing analytical, you should see if you have enough proof to accept these maps as an approximation of the current situation or not. This is called intuitionism in the philosophy of science.

On the 13th of August, based on other evidence, I wrote

Apparently the Novorussian thrust (№16 in the map) has continued on and closed the ring around a large pocket of encircled fascists.

The map I posted then didn't show closing of the ring. It was only on the 15th that the map showing the complete encirclement became available; so all of this shows that the map is logical to me, albeit with a large time lag.

I think, as we speak, the Novorussian situation is better that what this map implies.

Pictures and a video of how Novorossiya fighters treatment to the Kiev Neonazi fighters..

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/3745-razgrom-fashistov-pod-stepanovkoy.html&usg=ALkJrhhUThdB-OlRalZ5ooHhmSiI5qcl1w





even the kiev junta wounded soldiers are treated like human beings as you can see. Things like this are
the only thing that can promote dialogue and political solution to solve the conflict. But such images you will
never see in the west.. or in Kiev controlled media.. Because does not fit with their propaganda of the pro Russian
Rebels being "Terrorist".

Capture of Marinovka town in the border with Russia. Means the ukie soldiers are encircled again in the south.
About 30 pieces of artillery captured by the militia..


now the next video looks like taken from a zombie horror movie.. SOme ukie soldiers bodies ,totally black incinerated bodies. they look like taken from a zombies holywood movie. From all the videos of nasty kills the next video is by far the most mind blowing .   warning graphic!!!

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

By the way, can this battle map that is often presented by trusted ? Just asking, because I saw another map today where both Luhansk and Donetsk where surrounded, so I hope that's a wrong map and that the maps that are updated in this thread are correct.

Can you provide a link to the map that you are referring to?

With respect to the series of maps I have been posting, it should never be a matter of trust. Like any thing analytical, you should see if you have enough proof to accept these maps as an approximation of the current situation or not. This is called intuitionism in the philosophy of science.

On the 13th of August, based on other evidence, I wrote

Apparently the Novorussian thrust (№16 in the map) has continued on and closed the ring around a large pocket of encircled fascists.

The map I posted then didn't show closing of the ring. It was only on the 15th that the map showing the complete encirclement became available; so all of this shows that the map is logical to me, albeit with a large time lag.

I think, as we speak, the Novorussian situation is better that what this map implies.

Please note that the event that I used as an example in my previous post is now portrayed in many video clips. Marinovka, on the Russian border, is where that thrust ended. Vann7 has included one of these clips in his post above. I'll re-post that clip below.

Do you think this is a fake like what the US, Germany, Israel, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Canada, ... always feed their prole?

There are thousands of pieces of evidence just like this one.

The US state department "Advising" Americans to not promote Russia.   
Now is illegal for americans to feel Sympathy for Russia instead of the white house sponsored neoNazis in kiev or their sponsored Alqaeda rebels in Syria they call moderates?



What will be the law they breaking for supporting Russia? and not Supporting the taliban allies of OBAMA like the terrorist states of Saudi Arabia ,Turkey , And other unelected Nazi Dictatorships like in Ukraine? The Obama administration is by far the worse Presidency ever in USA.. this surpass George Bush in many ways.. Obama and Bush are war criminals but at least BUsh never put at risk the world in a world war with Russia.. but Obama is.

On similar news.. look at the actions of the Criminals Nazis that Obama promote in Ukraine.. The indiscriminate bombing of cities of kiev junta with the full promotion of the white house. (very graphic +)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY1Fnh_bAhk

The white house does not support the evacuations of civilians ,neither they support any humanitarian help to them.. if that not total Inhuman and Inmoral and criminal not idea what is.. Obama deserve to be send to guantanamo prison for life for his warcrimes and support for international terrorism and .with all his mentors too.

No news whatsoever in Poland, other than "50 Russian AFVs crossed into Ukraine, Kiev says it destroyed half of them, surely trustworthy". The media seem to be more interested in some athletic olympic thing in Zurich and a sparring match between Real Madrid and Florence.

Feldmarszal wrote:No news whatsoever in Poland, other than "50 Russian AFVs crossed into Ukraine, Kiev says it destroyed half of them, surely trustworthy". The media seem to be more interested in some athletic olympic thing in Zurich and a sparring match between Real Madrid and Florence.

Because people are losing interest in this. Even our media has very little to nothing.

sepheronx wrote:

Feldmarszal wrote:No news whatsoever in Poland, other than "50 Russian AFVs crossed into Ukraine, Kiev says it destroyed half of them, surely trustworthy". The media seem to be more interested in some athletic olympic thing in Zurich and a sparring match between Real Madrid and Florence.

Because people are losing interest in this.  Even our media has very little to nothing.

Media has no interests, they are said what they are allowed to report about and in who's favor they are allowed to report. They have no own interests and are not allowed to have one.

17 Ukrainian soldiers cross into Russia, lay down arms – FSB

http://rt.com/news/180772-ukrainian-soldiers-cross-russia/


I believe in patriotism whenever is for a good cause.. not blind Patriotism ,like Ukrainians have.. Ukrainians can end the war in less than 24 hours.. and even get Crimea back without firing a single shot    if they all fully understand the root of the problem ..ie.. that they have been fooled ,and their Coountry is being Used by the west
for the only reason to Fight Russia. Not because the west really cares about them.

IF Ukrainians citizens all ,go an protest to the streets and demand to end the war to stop and all the Ukie Army
rebel and join forces with the Novorossiya ,something as simple as that.. can allow them to Regain the Control of Ukraine from the western Puppets and the best of all not lose a single city because everyone minus the kiev junta and its nazis in power will be on the same side.  Ukrainians need to look at egypt Revolution , they can end the war in less than a day.. end the bloodshed . and retain the integrity of all Ukraine by simply moving to the side of the Rebels and say ... Fuck NATO and the EU.  And simply Ukraine remain a neutral NATION..and manage a good deal between Russia and EU , so that they do not have to split their nation or go into a civil war to have a free trade with any side.

and if Ukrainians seeks to Join Russia ,just like Crimea did..It will become a game changer ,because all their economy problems will be solved more faster than in any way The west could have ever done.  Is all Ignorance.
SOmehow the ukies believe that their economy will be fixed and they will move forward as soon the Rebels are defeated and nothing can be far from reality. IF they defeat the rebels ,is when the real war will start and against Russia.. because the white house will push them to move their fight to Crimea and fight Russia. The west really don't care if millions ukrainians die as long they damage Russia image and sabotage their economy. This is why
NATO do all they can to keep Ukraine and Russia fighting each other forever. while they enjoy the conflict.
The war in Ukraine is Ignorance. total ignorance . they have been fooled to think the EU will turn their nation
into a modern one overnight.. but the IMF loans and the Fracking will not give what they seek.  IF Ukrainians knew
that supporting their kiev junta ,they are only sponsoring the total destruction of their nation and that their nation will be turned into a battlefield for NATO to fight Russia.. if only they knew whats going on.. im sure they will reverse the coup in no time.. join the Rebels and return a real democracy to their nation and with the help of the only Nation that can truly help them Russia. Not because Russia is better than Europe or US.. but because They have historical ties ,and they are only family nations ,that speak same Russian language ,even when the official language is a bit different.

.  Dugin writes that Strelkov was changed by orders from Vladislav Surkov, the same person that according to Dugin with "american" connections gave Medvedev a second term. He basically says he wants to deal with Poroshenko and Akhmetov, and Strelkov is the symbol of the Russian spring.

Vladislav... Who is that  ba...d. Any way

. Business careerEdit

Meanwhile, in the late 1980s he started as a businessman as the government lifted the ban against private businesses. He became a head of the advertisement department of Mikhail Khodorkovsky's businesses. During the 1990s he held key managerial positions in advertisement and PR departments of Khodorkovsky's Bank Menatep (1991 – April 1996) and Rosprom (March 1996 – February 1997) and Fridman's Alfa-Bank (since February 1997).

In September 2004 Surkov was elected president of the board of directors of the oil products transportation company Transnefteproduct, but was instructed by Russia's PM Mikhail Fradkov to give up the position in February 2006.

F....king communist bussinesman... Big deal