Firebird wrote:You cant expect accountants and carpenters in Donbass to suddenly become warriors with MANPADS etc. Thats why Russia spends vast sums on its military. Vast sums that many people West of the current Russian borders want to contribute to.
Russia spend money on its military to defend Russian Federation and its citizens, not Ukraine and their citizens. They have their own army.
Yes, I expect those accountants and carpenters in Donbass to become Donetsk armed forces and to defend themselves. Ukraine have conscript army and all males serve in the army and they are military reservists. Their homes and families are attacked by Kiev junta. It is on Donetsk and Lugansk government to start full mobilization of reservists and start defending their homes. If they have no will to do it, than there is no sense for Russia to defend them. They have to mobilize them, train them and form commanding structure. They have enough reserve officers to do that. They could not depend on few voluntiers for a long time. Only for shorter time to prepare reservist units for fight.
I think these pts were all addressed earlier in the thread. Anyway:-
1) THese are Russian people, Russian lands, even if they aren't Russian citizens. Remember dual citizenship was banned in the Ukraine.
2)The whole so called indep state of the Ukraine, was actually a creation of a drunken idiot called Yeltsin and some dubious cronies. This was never the intended result of the dissolution of the USSR, or of the creation of the Ukrainian SSR. Therefore there is no justification for the Kiev idiots to make any demands against separatists. The Ukraine is a small part of the CiS/ FSU. Therefore, its claims carry no democratic weight. Likewise, any democratic strength it has is only as a result of the mass genocide of Russians in the Gr Patriotic War.
3)Are you Russian or of Russian descent? Or Slovakian? I cannot understand why you dont accept pts like the above.
4)Russian intervened in Chechnya. And most Russians, acc to polls think Russia has more business in the Ukraine than in CHechnya or Ossetia etc. And in any case, this isnt Iraq or Africa or Vietnam.
5)The Russian military is to defend Russian people. As a subsidiary pt, it is to defend legitimate Russian interests. If stopping mass murder isnt "legitimate", then I dont know what is. In addition it might just stop US nukes being positioned in Lugansk, further mass murder... and the disintegration of the Russian Fedn, according to the wacko American Brzezhnsky's plans.
Yes, the Ukr has its "own" army. And guess what? Its been hijacked by Nazis, or wants to stand aside.
6)There have been massive protests all over the S East. Some of them resulted in mass murder... surely you saw Odessa etc? The Maiden loons protests were NOTHING like those of the S East. But they were backed by the EU and US with militias in key positions to intimidate. Looks like Russia hasnt backed its side enough. Because the Nazis are in "govt", not the pro Russians.
7)The 2 referendums were gigantically overwhelming. Lugansk and Donetsk are not remotely 50:50.
Just look at the results. Putin must have been referring to other areas.
8)Lug and Do are about 8m people, vs the jets, tanks, choppers of many, many millions.
You cant say that people with handguns etc can defeat Su-27s etc.
Countries dont spend billions on arms because they look cool. Its because expensive arms beat handguns and bats etc.
9)Russia wants the world to think it is "civilised". Saying to Russian people "We're ok mate, you fight this on your own" does NOT convey an idea that Russia is civilised. You cant change carpenters into supermen overnight, and certainly NOT when they are fighting Sukhois and Migs.
The Ukrainian attacks have been cowardly and indesciminate. The S and East are large areas. You cant suddenly mobilise large numbers of irregulars 10s of miles away to defeat choppers and jets. Its hard enough against tanks when you have limited weaponry.
Ultimately, if Russia wont help Russian people, eventually people may say "well then I dont want to be part of Russia".
8)My guess is that Putin has caught the political equivalent of "stage fright".
I fear something has gone wrong with Russia's policies and they dont know how to fix it.
Hopefully my fears are unfounded. But its getting very disturbing now.