US-Turkish Military relations

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Joseph Dunford visited Chief of the General Staff General Hulusi Akar.

Erdogan Plays Down US Concerns Over Turkey's Talks With Russia on S-400

ANKARA (Sputnik) — On Sunday, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Joseph Dunford said that Turkey's possible purchase of the S-400 air defense system from Russia could be a cause for concern in Washington.

"Why should this be a concern? Each country should take certain measures to ensure its security. Which side can ensure these measures, there the steps are taken. How many times have we talked with America, but it did not work out, so like it or not, we began to make plans about the S-400. Our interested departments are negotiating, and this step will be taken," Erdogan said at a press conference in Ankara.

The S-400 Triumph is Russia's next-generation mobile surface-to-air missile system carrying three different types of missiles capable of destroying aerial targets at a short-to-extremely-long range. It integrates a multifunctional radar, autonomous detection and targeting systems, anti-aircraft missile systems, launchers, and a command and control center.

On July 18, the head of Russia's Rostec state corporation Sergei Chemezov said technical issues of the contract for the supply of the S-400 systems to Turkey had been resolved, with only administrative ones remaining.

As of now, Russia has concluded a contract for the delivery of the S-400 systems with China alone. Negotiations are also being conducted with India.

Erdogan Plays Down US Concerns Over Turkey's Talks With Russia on S-400 - Sputnik International

Interesting post Max (number 28).

Can you give a reference for that quote... I find it especially amusing they suggest a Sidewinder only armed F-16A would be at an advantage against a BVR armed MiG-23 with R-24 missiles.

Certainly the R-60 is not sidewinder equivalent, but R-24 missiles in SARH and IR guided models is easily better than Sidewinder in terms of range.

The funny thing is that if it was Ukrainian engines for Russian ships the Ukraine would immediately stop sending parts or completed engines to Russia even if they were already paid for... if Turkey did that then it is pretty clear they think they can start making their own parts by 2022 so they want Turkish components until then... which would mean if Turkey wanted to they could refuse to supply those wings and perhaps talk to Russia about signing Sukhoi up to the National Combat Aircraft Project with TAI and HAVELSAN.

They could probably get a plane that costs less than 40 million to make so sell them at 75 million each to a select group of other countries...

They don't care about pissing off US.

Producing the part means lot of incomes and they keep the technology for their own 5th geberation project. And they don't have to give back the money for 100 f-35. Turkey wins on that.

Actually if they decided to stop the production US would be in a bad situation and would have to renegociate with Turkey and sell them the f35. Restructuring the production lines is costly. The delays would have impacts on the already signed contracts with foreign countries because in contracts you always have a line about date delivery so if not respected l&m would have to pay penalities and the jets would be even more expensive than they are. So they would have to renegociates contracts with pretty much everyone.

IMO l&m paid some officials a lot to make them keep producing the parts.

the Turks of course would not benefit enough from just cutting them off and they are probably owed a lot of money for aircraft already paid for, but it is a useful threat to make if they need a lever.

A four year gap in F-35 production might be an opportunity for L&M to catch up on all the problems with the aircraft and try to get some fixed instead of just pissing around.

The loss of sales of 100 aircraft and a change in production for remaining aircraft to a different maker is already going to cost them a lot of money and make more countries reconsider how many they are buying.

It becomes a catch 22 situation ironically... say you have 100 ordered and have agreed to a price but have not paid for them (we are talking billions of dollars so they likely will pay for them in batches to spread to cost over several years budgets) then if they demand another 10-20% in price for those aircraft it puts you in a bad situation. First of all that is several extra billion dollars that have to come from somewhere. Second most countries will baulk at the new price per aircraft.... these are already very expensive and now they just got more expensive... normal knee jerk reaction is to say... do we really need 100 planes... could you manage with 60 instead...

But the huge irony is that you get a better price when you buy in bulk so when buying 100 planes they might have been 120 million each and with the extra ten percent 135 million each so 100 planes would have been 12 billion and then 13.5 billion because of the loss of 100 sales to Turkey and new production for important components... but cutting the purchase down to 60 planes wont decrease the cost by 40% like they hope it would because if you only buy 60 of them then you probably pay 160 million per aircraft, so 60 planes will cost 9.6 billion.

Yes, you don't have to spend as much and it is cheaper, but it is also more expensive for the planes you do get... you are paying more per plane and the spare parts and support contract will likely become more expensive too.

I think Turkey should be happy to be out of it really... I don't think an F-16 with all the stuff that actually works in the F-35 would be worse and it would be much cheaper and faster and cheaper to operate and able to carry a lot more ordinance... and they already have them...