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    US-Turkish Military relations

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:05 pm

    What’s Behind Washington Pulling 12 Fighter Jets From Turkish Base?

    In the latest sign of Turkey’s increasing isolation, the United States has announced plans to remove 12 fighter jets from Incirlik air base.

    According to Reuters, a spokesman with the US military’s European Command has confirmed that the US will withdraw 12 F-15 Eagles and Strike Eagle fighters from Turkey. The spokesman said that the aircraft had completed temporary deployment, despite having only been moved to Incirlik air base one month ago.

    According to a news release, the aircraft will be returning to RAF Lakenheath in the United Kingdom, beginning December 16.

    Earlier this year, both the US and Germany also withdrew surface-to-air missile batteries stationed along the Turkey-Syria border.

    The sudden withdrawal is surprising given that the Pentagon had previously encouraged European allies to use Incirlik as a staging platform for the anti-terror campaign.

    "We are in an active conversation with many of our European partners about the potential for them to relocate and to join us on the ground in Incirlik," Gen. John Allen told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in October.

    The announcement comes as Turkey faces international condemnation over the downing of Russian bomber in Syrian airspace last month. The incident left two Russian soldiers dead.

    "I was immediately concerned that NATO might buy into the insanity being demonstrated by Turkey," former CIA and US State Department official Larry Johnson told Sputnik. "Fortunately, the reports coming out of the NATO meeting indicate that several of the NATO ministers were asking Turkey: 'What in God’s name were you thinking?'"

    Turkey is also under fire for its decision to deploy hundreds of troops and tanks into northern Iraq, a move the Iraqi government views as a breach of its own sovereignty.

    "The government is committed to maintain good neighborly relations, but at the same time reiterates its right to take measures to protect national sovereignty," the Iraqi government said in a statement.

    Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi gave Ankara 48 hours to remove its troops, but Turkey has failed to comply. The United Nations Security Council is currently reviewing a formal complaint lodged by Baghdad.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151216/1031862104/us-jets-leave-turkey.html#ixzz3uYz6jIEC
    Airman
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    Post  Airman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:00 am

    Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Joseph Dunford visited Chief of the General Staff General Hulusi Akar.

    Airman
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    Post  Airman on Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:14 pm

    Erdogan Plays Down US Concerns Over Turkey's Talks With Russia on S-400

    ANKARA (Sputnik) — On Sunday, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Joseph Dunford said that Turkey's possible purchase of the S-400 air defense system from Russia could be a cause for concern in Washington.

    "Why should this be a concern? Each country should take certain measures to ensure its security. Which side can ensure these measures, there the steps are taken. How many times have we talked with America, but it did not work out, so like it or not, we began to make plans about the S-400. Our interested departments are negotiating, and this step will be taken," Erdogan said at a press conference in Ankara.

    The S-400 Triumph is Russia's next-generation mobile surface-to-air missile system carrying three different types of missiles capable of destroying aerial targets at a short-to-extremely-long range. It integrates a multifunctional radar, autonomous detection and targeting systems, anti-aircraft missile systems, launchers, and a command and control center.

    On July 18, the head of Russia's Rostec state corporation Sergei Chemezov said technical issues of the contract for the supply of the S-400 systems to Turkey had been resolved, with only administrative ones remaining.

    As of now, Russia has concluded a contract for the delivery of the S-400 systems with China alone. Negotiations are also being conducted with India.

    Erdogan Plays Down US Concerns Over Turkey's Talks With Russia on S-400 - Sputnik International
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:38 pm

    Interesting post Max (number 28).

    Can you give a reference for that quote... I find it especially amusing they suggest a Sidewinder only armed F-16A would be at an advantage against a BVR armed MiG-23 with R-24 missiles.

    Certainly the R-60 is not sidewinder equivalent, but R-24 missiles in SARH and IR guided models is easily better than Sidewinder in terms of range.
    JohninMK
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    US-Turkish Military relations - Page 2 Empty Turkey F-35.

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:44 am

    It takes a long time to extricate a key supplier out of a huge project like the F-35. Looks like 4-5 years in this case.


    MiddleEastWatch
    @MiddleEastWatc1
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    Bloomberg on Pentagon officials: Turkey will continue manufacturing parts for American F35 fighters until 2022.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:27 pm

    The funny thing is that if it was Ukrainian engines for Russian ships the Ukraine would immediately stop sending parts or completed engines to Russia even if they were already paid for... if Turkey did that then it is pretty clear they think they can start making their own parts by 2022 so they want Turkish components until then... which would mean if Turkey wanted to they could refuse to supply those wings and perhaps talk to Russia about signing Sukhoi up to the National Combat Aircraft Project with TAI and HAVELSAN.

    They could probably get a plane that costs less than 40 million to make so sell them at 75 million each to a select group of other countries...
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:54 am

    Its not wings Garry, the key big part Turkey makes is the center section of the fuselage, hence the long time to replicate the tooling. By continuing to supply they are showing that they really don't want to piss the US off badly. Imagine the reaction if they shut down the F-35 line for a couple of years!
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:09 am

    They don't care about pissing off US.

    Producing the part means lot of incomes and they keep the technology for their own 5th geberation project. And they don't have to give back the money for 100 f-35. Turkey wins on that.

    Actually if they decided to stop the production US would be in a bad situation and would have to renegociate with Turkey and sell them the f35. Restructuring the production lines is costly. The delays would have impacts on the already signed contracts with foreign countries because in contracts you always have a line about date delivery so if not respected l&m would have to pay penalities and the jets would be even more expensive than they are. So they would have to renegociates contracts with pretty much everyone.

    IMO l&m paid some officials a lot to make them keep producing the parts.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:22 pm

    the Turks of course would not benefit enough from just cutting them off and they are probably owed a lot of money for aircraft already paid for, but it is a useful threat to make if they need a lever.

    A four year gap in F-35 production might be an opportunity for L&M to catch up on all the problems with the aircraft and try to get some fixed instead of just pissing around.

    The loss of sales of 100 aircraft and a change in production for remaining aircraft to a different maker is already going to cost them a lot of money and make more countries reconsider how many they are buying.

    It becomes a catch 22 situation ironically... say you have 100 ordered and have agreed to a price but have not paid for them (we are talking billions of dollars so they likely will pay for them in batches to spread to cost over several years budgets) then if they demand another 10-20% in price for those aircraft it puts you in a bad situation. First of all that is several extra billion dollars that have to come from somewhere. Second most countries will baulk at the new price per aircraft.... these are already very expensive and now they just got more expensive... normal knee jerk reaction is to say... do we really need 100 planes... could you manage with 60 instead...

    But the huge irony is that you get a better price when you buy in bulk so when buying 100 planes they might have been 120 million each and with the extra ten percent 135 million each so 100 planes would have been 12 billion and then 13.5 billion because of the loss of 100 sales to Turkey and new production for important components... but cutting the purchase down to 60 planes wont decrease the cost by 40% like they hope it would because if you only buy 60 of them then you probably pay 160 million per aircraft, so 60 planes will cost 9.6 billion.

    Yes, you don't have to spend as much and it is cheaper, but it is also more expensive for the planes you do get... you are paying more per plane and the spare parts and support contract will likely become more expensive too.

    I think Turkey should be happy to be out of it really... I don't think an F-16 with all the stuff that actually works in the F-35 would be worse and it would be much cheaper and faster and cheaper to operate and able to carry a lot more ordinance... and they already have them...

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