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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    starman
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    Post  starman Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:18 pm

    Begome wrote:
    This view would also explain why the universe is so incredibly fine-tuned for life

    See The Fallacy of Fine Tuning.


    ...my position is that I believe in God and His Word and Spirit as the One God (monarchically trinitarian Orthodox Christianity) and that God created the universe, Earth and life. Whether that process and the "basic reality" can ever be properly modelled scientifically or not is not something that concerns me much anymore.

    Laughing Laughing
    Begome
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    Post  Begome Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:34 pm

    "Demons" arriving in technological craft?
    Just read the Bible dude...demons and angels can obviously take different physical forms and even appear to use technology, such as different "machines", like large flaming wheels or carriages etc as attested to in the Bible, which obviously describes interactions with humans on a far more primitive technological level...why wouldn't demons today use the appearance of some weird high-tech-looking thing to mislead gullible atheists or even Christians struggling with their faith (there have been documented cases of this)? Obviously those "machines" would not be entirely/exactly physical, which explains why so many UFO reports characterize those things as moving in a way that seems to defy physics.
    If he's an "absolute joke" so is the bulk of recent scholarship.
    The bulk of Western, liberal scholarship perhaps, but those people don't even have the semblance of a coherent world view, so why would I care about their opinion? And this is just another fallacy attempt on your part...appeal to consensus.
    Dead wrong. At first Ehrman doubted Crossan's view but "that was before I researched the matter." There was no "grave." That was just another invention. Holy Joe #1 ended up as dog food.
    There is clear historical evidence for Jesus' grave and it being empty after 3 days, as it says in the Bible, which is also a historical document. As I already told you: "Person X says Y" is not a valid argument; if you want to argue against historical facts you need to up your game.
    Na, the original apostles were just illiterate peasants or fishermen.
    More ad-hoc assertions. The Bible attests that some of them were wealthy. If you're not going to bother to actually bring forth evidence (despite whining about the importance of evidence) then I won't bother to reply in more elaborate ways since it'll just waste my time.
    So you think there are no UFO reports from Russia? It won't be the world leader; even under Putin it's weaker vis a vis the west than the USSR.
    Non-sequitur...nothing I said leads to the conclusion that "there are no UFO reports from Russia". And the USSR was 30 years ago; you were talking about 50 years into the future, which will be 80 years after the USSR; thus, your comparison is meaningless as the entire world will be very different by then, not just the West.
    See The Fallacy of Fine Tuning.
    Ridiculous...read it and weep; this guy is a physicist working at CERN btw, not that it matters...this Fallacy of Fine-Tuning "argument" is just another example of the increasing desperation among atheists these days. The argument itself rests on a non-sequitur (false equivocation) fallacy, as Strauss points out in the article I linked; how ironic.

    And judging by your final two smileys after the last quote there I suppose you never actually thought about the limitations of science and inductive logic. Go read about the problem of induction.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:42 am

    This view would also explain why the universe is so incredibly fine-tuned for life

    Fine tuned after 14 billion years.

    Natural selection is as much about luck as anything else... the strong and the smart can be eliminated from the gene pool just as easily as the small and weak, so progress is slow.

    The enormous variety of life on earth just shows the variability of carbon based life forms and there could be plenty of others.

    In fact references to heaven and existence after death might actually refer to an energy based existence for life forms after they bodies die... we might not understand the afterlife in the same way a caterpillar does not understand flight or being a butterfly or moth.

    For all we know the afterlife might just be another dimension life forms from this dimension migrate to after they pass from here.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:21 am

    GarryB wrote:
    This view would also explain why the universe is so incredibly fine-tuned for life

    Fine tuned after 14 billion years.

    Natural selection is as much about luck as anything else... the strong and the smart can be eliminated from the gene pool just as easily as the small and weak, so progress is slow.

    The enormous variety of life on earth just shows the variability of carbon based life forms and there could be plenty of others.

    In fact references to heaven and existence after death might actually refer to an energy based existence for life forms after they bodies die... we might not understand the afterlife in the same way a caterpillar does not understand flight or being a butterfly or moth.

    For all we know the afterlife might just be another dimension life forms from this dimension migrate to after they pass from here.

    I am more partial to quantum entanglement echoes. After life forms die, there is no step function transition to nothing. No entity in
    the universe is untied to the rest of it. So the entanglement persist and dissipates on some time scale. Scientists are supposed to
    laugh at things like ghosts. But then they should laughing at themselves since "there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are
    dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio".

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    Post  starman Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:42 pm

    Begome wrote:
    Just read the Bible dude…

    Read something written by ignoramuses who lived thousands of years ago, full of contradictions and historically phony material…Ehrman and Crossan know it as good or better than anybody. No doubt you can read it in the original Greek, like they can. Rolling Eyes

    ….demons and angels can obviously take different physical forms

    Laughing I can scarcely believe any educated person stills believe this kind of crap. It's worse than stupid to think "demons and angels" are more credible than aliens. We are spacefaring (albeit beginner) aliens, from the point of view of the rest of the Universe.

    and even appear to use technology, such as different "machines"...why wouldn't demons today use the appearance of some weird high-tech-looking thing

    The technology is obviously real as radar sightings and landing traces indicate.


    to mislead….even Christians struggling with their faith

    Like Andreasson?

    Obviously those "machines" would not be entirely/exactly physical, which explains why so many UFO reports characterize those things as moving in a way that seems to defy physics.

    Some UFOs could be holographic but many must be physical, given crash retrieval accounts, two of which appear real.


    And this is just another fallacy attempt on your part...appeal to consensus.

    Strauss appeals to consensus when he says most cosmologists agree with Barnes.


    There is clear historical evidence for Jesus' grave and it being empty after 3 days, as it says in the Bible, which is also a historical document. As I already told you: "Person X says Y" is not a valid argument; if you want to argue against historical facts you need to up your game.

    The Bible is at best "historically problematic" given its contradictions and foolish accounts. As Ehrman and Crossan show, most of the NT stories were inventions to win converts; haven't you read their works? The "tomb" is almost certainly made up, just like the bulk of the rest of the nt. You believe something must be true if the Bible says it is; I'd sooner believe modern historians.



    More ad-hoc assertions. The Bible attests that some of them were wealthy. If you're not going to bother to actually bring forth evidence (despite whining about the importance of evidence) then I won't bother to reply in more elaborate ways since it'll just waste my time.

    Laughing The original 12 (assuming that wasn't just another invention)were from the area around Capernaum; haven't you read about archeological excavations of the place and what that reveals?
    It was hardly the abode of the wealthy. And only a fool would believe those ignoramuses wrote the NT.

    ... this guy is a physicist working at CERN btw, not that it matters...this Fallacy of Fine-Tuning "argument" is just another example of the increasing desperation among atheists these days.

    The fallacy... argument undermines the last "evidence" for "god" but even Stenger admitted his view wasn't really necessary.
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    Post  starman Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:47 pm

    kvs wrote:
    But then they should laughing at themselves since "there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are
    dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio".

    Sure, like aliens able to traverse interstellar distances. Wink
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    Post  starman Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:Fine tuned after 14 billion years.

    Supposedly from the start.

    Natural selection is as much about luck as anything else... the strong and the smart can be eliminated from the gene pool just as easily as the small and weak, so progress is slow.

    Add to that chance events like chicxulub.

    The enormous variety of life on earth just shows the variability of carbon based life forms and there could be plenty of others.

    From what I've read silicon based life isn't likely.

    For all we know the afterlife might just be another dimension life forms from this dimension migrate to after they pass from here.

    I recall what somebody wrote on another board: "We are programmed by evolution to strive to avoid death and this has given rise to the irrational idea of the afterlife. It may be possible for science to conquer aging. But for now recall what the Romans wrote on their tombs--n.f, f, n.s, n.c. Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo.
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    Post  Begome Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:Fine tuned after 14 billion years.

    Natural selection is as much about luck as anything else... the strong and the smart can be eliminated from the gene pool just as easily as the small and weak, so progress is slow.

    The enormous variety of life on earth just shows the variability of carbon based life forms and there could be plenty of others.

    In fact references to heaven and existence after death might actually refer to an energy based existence for life forms after they bodies die... we might not understand the afterlife in the same way a caterpillar does not understand flight or being a butterfly or moth.

    For all we know the afterlife might just be another dimension life forms from this dimension migrate to after they pass from here.
    Nope, fine tuned from the very beginning...there are about 100 constants discovered so far that are a fundamental part of the universe and must be within a very short range of the value we can measure them in or life in the universe wouldn't be possible; e.g., consider the strong nuclear force: if increased by 2% there would be almost no hydrogen in the universe, but if decreased by 5% hydrogen would practically be the only element. The mathematician Sir Roger Penrose, for example, calculated in his book with Stephen Hawking "The Nature of Space and Time" that the probability of obtaining any kind of universe at all capable of supporting life is roughly 1 chance in 10^(10^123). That's fine tuning.

    Natural selection is primarily a conservative force (selecting out the sick)...it does not have any creative potential as I've explained in my previous posts.

    Read something written by ignoramuses who lived thousands of years ago, full of contradictions and historically phony material…Ehrman and Crossan know it as good or better than anybody. No doubt you can read it in the original Greek, like they can.
    I can scarcely believe any educated person stills believe this kind of crap. It's worse than stupid to think "demons and angels" are more credible than aliens. We are spacefaring (albeit beginner) aliens, from the point of view of the rest of the Universe.
    The fact that we can travel small distances outside the Earth's atmosphere only means something if there are actually any other intelligent civilizations out there for the purposes of this discussion. You haven't proven how it is possible that aliens can exist when Darwinism is an utter failure, alternative explanations for the sightings exist and a proper world view can account for everything, including knowledge, truth and morality, without supporting the existence of aliens. That is a question you have "conveniently" skipped, by the way: how, in your "enlightened" world view, do you even account for knowledge, truth and morality? How do you even know what is true and what isn't?
    The rest is just more ad-hominem, which shows your insecurities and incompetence at constructing proper arguments.
    You asserting that "the Bible is full of contradictions" doesn't make it so (that's just ad-hoc)...referring to some anti-Christian scholar is called argumentum ad auctoritatem, another fallacy, as I've already told you.
    As to Koine Greek: the Church Fathers and the hierarchs of the first 6 centuries, who compiled the Bible had Greek as their mother-tongue or achieved high proficiency in their studies, as evidenced by their letters and other documents. Lopuchin et al., whose Bible commentary I often consult, were also proficient at ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek.
    Even Ehrman, in his ridiculous book "Misquoting Jesus", admits that any variations in the Bible's different manuscripts don't impact the doctrinal teachings we derive from it, so even according to someone as dishonest and incompetent as him our theology isn't impacted by variations and this is what counts.
    The technology is obviously real as radar sightings and landing traces indicate.
    Some UFOs could be holographic but many must be physical, given crash retrieval accounts, two of which appear real.
    So? I told you that physical effects are possible and even gave you examples of such accounts from the ancient times, way before the originally low-IQ position of atheism became popular, thus enabling these kinds of ridiculous deceptions today.
    Strauss appeals to consensus when he says most cosmologists agree with Barnes.
    The fallacy... argument undermines the last "evidence" for "god" but even Stenger admitted his view wasn't really necessary.
    Red Herring: the core of his argument is showing that "The Fine-Tuning Fallacy" argument itself relies on a fallacy (false equivocation).
    The Bible is at best "historically problematic" given its contradictions and foolish accounts. As Ehrman and Crossan show, most of the NT stories were inventions to win converts; haven't you read their works? The "tomb" is almost certainly made up, just like the bulk of the rest of the nt. You believe something must be true if the Bible says it is; I'd sooner believe modern historians.
    No, I don't "believe that something is true if the Bible says it is"; I believe that something is true when I can determine that it is true; how I do that depends on the context. The Bible needs to be viewed in the proper context as well and is not always easy to interpret, which is why it took 6 centuries to put it all together in the first place. Ehrman and Crossan rely on ad-hoc assertions and biased interpretation and thus don't show anything of the sort; they are simply riding the gravy train and milking gullible atheists.
    Also, you don't even "believe modern historians", since you clearly reject many of them, e.g. Paul Maier, because they're not "on your side"...you simply seek confirmation of your anti-Christian prejudices. Go read about the extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus Christ and His miracles...there you'll see that even the Jews admit that He worked many miracles, like curing disease and raising the dead...why would they do that?
    The original 12 (assuming that wasn't just another invention)were from the area around Capernaum; haven't you read about archeological excavations of the place and what that reveals?
    It was hardly the abode of the wealthy. And only a fool would believe those ignoramuses wrote the NT.
    So? I didn't say that all of them were wealthy and just because they later lived in Caperneum doesn't mean they are from there: Peter and Andrew were born in Bethsaida, later moved to a house in Caperneum and were fishermen...a better life than many "enjoy" today in the no-go-zone slums of Western cities. Peter also obviously had enough money to provide for a wife. James and John were the sons of Zebedee, who was wealthy enough to be able to hire multiple employees for his business, so they come from a wealthy home and started following Christ early in their life. Matthew was a tax collector and thus naturally well off. Many of His other followers were also wealthy, like Barnabas, Cornelius, Lydia etc. and chose to follow Christ even though there was massive persecution of Christians going on for the first 3 centuries AD.
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    Post  starman Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:34 pm

    Begome wrote:You haven't proven how it is possible that aliens can exist when Darwinism is an utter failure,

    How strange that we evolved…Scientists assume life can arise and evolve anywhere where conditions are earth like. Btw exactly how did "demons" and "angels" appear? Smile


    alternative explanations for the sightings exist

    Of course but they're nonsense. As I've explained repeatedly, there are many cases for which no prosaic explanation was ever found even after decades of scrutiny.


    and a proper world view can account for everything, including knowledge, truth and morality, without supporting the existence of aliens. That is a question you have "conveniently" skipped, by the way: how, in your "enlightened" world view, do you even account for knowledge, truth and morality? How do you even know what is true and what isn't?

    Rationality, the scientific method.


    You asserting that "the Bible is full of contradictions" doesn't make it so (that's just ad-hoc)...referring to some anti-Christian scholar is called argumentum ad auctoritatem, another fallacy, as I've already told you.

    Don't you realize Ehrman mentioned christian colleagues who agree with him including contradictions?


    So? I told you that physical effects are possible and even gave you examples of such accounts from the ancient times,

    I wasn't talking about effects but material, and not just from crash retrieval cases.

    No, I don't "believe that something is true if the Bible says it is"; I believe that something is true when I can determine that it is true; how I do that depends on the context. The Bible needs to be viewed in the proper context as well and is not always easy to interpret,

    Yep, the surest sign of fraud. Just like the delphic oracle and Nostradamus, "the word of god" can't be proved wrong because it's not clear what it meant in the first place...


    milking gullible atheists.

    Laughing It ill-behooves a christian to call others gullible. As far back as the second century, long before swaggert and others, christians were noted for it…(when a swindler is among christians) "his fortune is quickly made."



    Go read about the /is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/]extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus Christ and His miracles

    As I indicated before I don't say Jesus was mythical. But it's a fallacy to speak of "pagan sources." Where did Tacitus get his information? From Roman records of c 30 CE? Laughing Yeah right; no way would records of a nobody be preserved, or survive. Philo didn't mention Jesus. Everything Tacitus and other nonchristian writers knew or thought they knew about jesus was from the christians themselves. Presumably they were interrogated after being arrested. What pagan source mentions the "darkness" that day in 30 CE?? It should've caused an empire-wide sensation….and been mentioned by at least one Roman writer of the 1st century.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:37 am

    Natural selection is primarily a conservative force (selecting out the sick)...it does not have any creative potential as I've explained in my previous posts.

    Natural selection is blind... the space objects that may have wiped out the dinosaurs took out some of the biggest and strongest animals this planet has ever known... in a social group of animals humans will protect the weak as well as the strong... sometimes the things that are different are what helps us to survive...

    Personally I think life is all about developing and learning about the universe around us... eventually we will get to the point where we can fully control our destiny... human cells degrade over time... look at your body in the mirror... how old do you think you are... and don't think the information on your birth certificate can help you.

    All the cells in your body regenerate... what you are looking at is less than 10 years old... everything in your body is rebuilt continuously, but everything ages... it is not built the same every time so as you get older your skin gets older and wrinkly depending on your diet, your bones will be effected...

    But there are genes that can turn this aging off.

    If we lived forever there would be no reason to reproduce, having children is our only current way of continuing beyond our lifetime...

    A shorter lifetime means more reproduction and reproduction is where we evolve and develop to adapt to our changing environment.

    From what I've read silicon based life isn't likely.

    Silicon life is being created on earth by us... robots and computers and AI programmes... bodies brains/genes and intelligence.

    I have read an article about a chemical signature in the atmosphere of Venus... there is plenty we don't know.

    https://www.rt.com/news/502212-life-on-venus-plot-thickens/
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    Post  kvs Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:48 am

    I think the reference is to natural silicon based life not being likely. Second stage artificial life created by a carbon based intelligent
    life form is an interesting possibility. But we are very far from self-aware AI at present. In fact, the term AI is abused for all sorts
    of reflex like functions that do not involve self-awareness, consciousness and real intelligence. Visual pattern recognition is not
    real AI. Existing neural network software and any potential hardware on similar concepts is far removed from the neural network
    in our brains or even the brains of primitive organisms.

    One thing that is apparent is the unrealistic expectation of progress. The show Space 1999 sums it up. Somehow in 20+ years
    from the 1970s humanity would have had advanced Moon bases. As we can see the timescale for technological development
    is vastly longer. Some Mickey Mouse Moon bases may show up by the 2040s. But Space 1999 bases would take, if we are not
    terminated as a global civilization by global warming decades before, beyond 2100 to become normal. By then we will have likely
    developed nuclear drive spacecraft to explore the solar system. But we are not going to have the United Federation of Planets
    like in Star Trek in the 2200s. Humans may not even leave the solar system before the year 3000.

    Given the social decay and the ironic dumbing down of the population at the same time as technology is "taking over", we
    are likely to see a return to medieval-like times and take centuries to dig ourselves out the collapse hole. In contrast to
    the fall of the Roman Empire, we are not going to have a gradual transition to agrarian life since there are way too many
    people to go back to the farm. This is because industrial agriculture (the "green" revolution) has resulted in farm productivity
    never seen before in human history. So the collapse of modern global civilization is going to be something new. I think
    it will be a case of "the bigger they are, they harder they fall". Getting back up will be more painful.

    The above may partly account for the lack of real contact with aliens and Fermi's Paradox. The idea of a thousands years
    long civilization may be biologically absurd since generations really do start from scratch. Knowing something is not the
    same as understanding. And intelligent life does not genetically inherit the knowledge and wisdom of its parents. So
    civilizations on Earth like planets may self-delete faster than the required accumulation of knowledge need to figure out
    "warp drive" and such. Any chance to control destiny is likely to be unattainable in practice if not in theory.

    People who think UFO "sightings" prove intelligent life in the universe are barking up the wrong tree. The existence of
    such life does not need to prove itself with anal probe visits to Earth. The UFO cult is really a bizarre thing. I think it
    could care less about aliens per se. It is the anal probing and other violation that is the real fetish of this cult. That
    is why it is the same as the medieval succubus rape claims. Instead of demons we now have aliens.

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    Post  starman Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:22 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Natural selection is blind... the space objects that may have wiped out the dinosaurs took out some of the biggest and strongest animals this planet has ever known…

    The attributes which were the key to dinosaur dominance for over 100 million years suddenly became a grave liability...

    Personally I think life is all about developing and learning about the universe around us... eventually we will get to the point where we can fully control our destiny..

    Agreed, and that is of course the antithesis of religion. I think ET has long reached this point.

    All the cells in your body regenerate…

    Even brain cells?

    Silicon life is being created on earth by us... robots and computers and AI programmes... bodies brains/genes and intelligence.

    Of course I meant naturally evolved biological life.

    I have read an article about a chemical signature in the atmosphere of Venus... there is plenty we don't know.

    What if life is confirmed on Venus and found on Mars? If it can appear on two planets with conditions so (generally) inimical to life, it must be very widespread in the Universe.
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    Post  starman Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:40 am

    kvs wrote:
    Given the social decay and the ironic dumbing down of the population at the same time as technology is "taking over", we
    are likely to see a return to medieval-like times and take centuries to dig ourselves out the collapse hole.   In contrast to
    the fall of the Roman Empire,

    Too pessimistic. I don't doubt we're in for some big upheavals. But, as I've said many times elsewhere, we're currently at a stage of history like the one just before the fall of the Roman republic not the empire, or civilization. It's not that the problems are unsolvable, it's just that current government can't solve them. Real solutions involve sacrifice, which is generally unpopular hence no way to get elected. The ultimate result of worsening crises will be the collapse of present government and the rise of a more effective regime.


    The existence of
    such life does not need to prove itself with anal probe visits to Earth.

    Smile Such visits are only a tiny part of the overall phenomenon. For now the goal isn't to "prove" ET is here but just to slowly get humanity to accept the idea. That's the view of the aforementioned tome ((The Alien Grand Design) anyway, and it makes sense.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:30 pm

    The ETs have exposed themselves for decades now, in our lifetime, no need to press the same issue. The governments already know that aliens exist, but so far been reluctant to officially admit it & announce that we r not alone in the Galaxy. Once that happens, most people who r still in doubt will accept it. Perhaps the most efficient way to do it is to acknowledge that our biology, history & religions were influenced by them from the day 1 we appeared on Earth.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:14 am

    The attributes which were the key to dinosaur dominance for over 100 million years suddenly became a grave liability...

    That is my point... you said natural selection gets rid of the weak... the dinosaurs were not weak, but they required a very specific set of conditions to grow that big including much warmer temperatures than what we have now.

    Natural selection is not about strength or weakness and humans have evolved to the point where we can adapt to almost any environment from the equator to the poles. Obviously if the entire planet is like a desert... a hot or a cold one then humans could still survive but not at the numbers we currently have...

    The dinosaurs mastered and maximised their advantages of size in the environment they found themselves in, which resulted in them being largely wiped out when those conditions dramatically changed.

    People whine and moan about climate change but climate change is natural and continuous, so if we want to survive for even just a fraction of the millions of years the dinosaurs were here then we had better learn to work together better and deal with the problems that come up.

    The distance apart and the time scales of when civilisations rise up and then fall down suggests any alien race we bump into might be the remains of their race that might be partially or completely synthetic/cyborg... humans are already examining animals and creatures that hibernate to develop technology for very long distance travel, and other animals and life forms have other tricks that could be useful to incorporate or indeed reactivate from existing human genes.

    I was reading an article the other day that seemed to suggest that the bodies ability to repair the eyes was turned off in humans... we don't know how or why... what advantage did we get from that... and what happens if you turn it back on... maybe it was to give an advantage to younger humans and make older humans more expendable... we just really don't know...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:22 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NthID9UOW-I

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVermu8wixE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8sCVl2IUuM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcpKcOETe5A
    starman
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    Post  starman Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:25 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The ETs have exposed themselves for decades now, in our lifetime, no need to press the same issue. The governments already know that aliens exist, but so far been reluctant to officially admit it & announce that we r not alone in the Galaxy.

    Sure, and for good reason.

    Once that happens, most people who r still in doubt will accept it.

    I don't think it'll happen until the vast bulk of people have already essentially accepted it i.e. become inured to the ET reality.

    Perhaps the most efficient way to do it is to acknowledge that our biology, history & religions were influenced by them from the day 1 we appeared on Earth.

    I never saw any need to invoke ET to explain our origins. Religion and history is a different matter, as the aforementioned work opines (even if it's take on ET influence in religion and history is vastly different from others).

    GarryB wrote:
    ..you said natural selection gets rid of the weak

    No, somebody else said that. Btw some dinosaurs were adapted to cool, even cold climates; their key problem c 66 MYA was excessive energy requirements when chicxulub resulted in diminished photosynthesis.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:21 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbNWU01p76Y&t=102s

    https://ufology.fandom.com/wiki/Mark_McCandlish

    https://www.gaia.com/article/unlimited-free-energy

    https://www.academia.edu/43445608/SPACE_WARP_PROPULSION_PART_1

    https://www.academia.edu/43445624/SPACE_WARP_PROPULSION_PART_2_Alien_Reproduction_Vehicle
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    Post  starman Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:49 am

    McCandlish is full of it. There have been many claims of reverse engineering but scant evidence. The aforementioned work, The Alien Grand Design, explains the reason for this misinformation, and much more.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:25 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8sCVl2IUuM  

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVermu8wixE   

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmEScIUcvz0
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    Post  starman Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:31 am

    I don't buy any of that. They read too much into ancient writings. As for christian origins, Crossan has thought "outside the box" but not that far….
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:40 pm

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:11 am

    I don't buy any of that. They read too much into ancient writings. As for christian origins, Crossan has thought "outside the box" but not that far….

    Sadly humans have a habit of seeing things that are not there... they look at cute fluffy puddy tats and get all surprised when the step into the lions cage at a zoo and they get attacked and killed.

    Put a rubberband and two plastic buttons on a table in front of a child or an adult and they will see a face... give them a cork and most likely they will use it to make a nose... a rubber band is not a mouth and plastic buttons are not eyes and a cork is certainly not a nose but with two buttons and one cork and one rubber band the band has to be the mouth and with one cork it has to be the nose...

    In other words we see things that are not there and those things we see are forced to conform to what we know and what we expect to see.

    Right now we have science fiction, and other made up stuff that includes things that are not possible and have never happened, but when someone sees something that reminds them of a space ship shape it suddenly means that culture has seen aliens... when it might be a crude depiction of a sailing ship or something entirely different and quite normal.

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    Post  starman Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:05 am

    I heard of Romanek a long time ago. Seems he was best known for his pics of beings looking through the window. I haven't researched him much; of course he has critics but what UFO case doesn't?
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    Post  kvs Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I don't buy any of that. They read too much into ancient writings. As for christian origins, Crossan has thought "outside the box" but not that far….


    Right now we have science fiction, and other made up stuff that includes things that are not possible and have never happened, but when someone sees something that reminds them of a space ship shape it suddenly means that culture has seen aliens... when it might be a crude depiction of a sailing ship or something entirely different and quite normal.

    That is exactly what happened during dusk hours just recently when people were stopping their cars on a highway to gawk at a "spaceship" which was an ad blimp everyone should recognize.



    I am inclined to label is collective 'drain bammage'.

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