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33 posters

    2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion

    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun May 29, 2022 6:38 am

    MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:In the current conflict in Ukraine - what is the difference in the role between the 2s7 and the BM-30 ?
    Bring out the 2s7 because its cheaper for sustained fire over the BM-30 at hitting HQ and troop concentrations in the rear?
    The conventional artillery should be cheaper per shot and might have better penetration against hardened concrete fortifications.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun May 29, 2022 10:33 am

    ... and is more accurate.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun May 29, 2022 12:31 pm

    They need to increase the number of guided shells. And suicide drones.

    Using a full salvo of conventional rounds of howitzer or mrls is still expensive.

    A suicide drone can hunt enemy artillery and hit it precisely like they already showed with the US supplied guns and KUB drone this week. Drones have also the range for hunting them and they can find them when on the move before it can fire and not wait for the radar to detect incoming rounds and geolocate enemy position.

    Guided rounds destroy enemy position with just one hit.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:23 pm

    14:07 10/12/2022 (updated: 14:10 10/12/2022)


    The Russian military received a batch of the most powerful guns in the world ahead of schedule


    2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion - Page 6 15593910


    MOSCOW, October 12 - RIA Novosti. "Uraltransmash" ahead of schedule shipped to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation a batch of high-powered 2S7M "Malka" cannons that have undergone modernization, the press service of the Uralvagonzavod concern told reporters on Wednesday.
    “As part of the state defense order for 2022, Uraltransmash (part of Uralvagonzavod, part of Rostec) delivered a batch of 2S7M Malka self-propelled guns to the Russian Defense Ministry ahead of schedule after a major overhaul with modernization,” the press service said.

    According to the general director of Uraltransmash, Dimtriy Semizorov, whose words are quoted by the press service, gearboxes, distribution mechanisms and power supply units have been replaced in the guns, observation devices, intercom equipment and a radio station have been updated.
    “The modernization has improved all the main characteristics, including maneuverability, mobility, command controllability. The 2S7M Malka self-propelled guns have successfully passed the full cycle of tests before being sent to the customer,” he added.

    https://ria.ru/20221012/malka-1823369439.html

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:10 pm

    I will only add, that there are some 250 (!) pcs of 2S7 in storage left, after some 70 (! Laughing !) was reported gone for modernization in March or April Twisted Evil

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:55 am

    Even with old shells being able to hit targets at 50km with 110kg HE 203mm shells is pretty devastating, and 20km with 130kg 240mm bombs from the Tulip is pretty devastating too... the mortar offers near vertically falling bombs which creates a more even pattern of shell fragments around the point of impact...

    Makes you wonder if they will do to the 203mm what they are doing with the 152mm land based guns, sharing funding with the Navy to develop very long range guided shells as standard... I would think anything they design for the 152mm shells could be fitted to 203mm shells just as easily, and the larger calibre offers more internal space for more exotic ideas and projectiles with better payloads.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:55 am

    Saboted 152 mm shells can probably manage 100 km easy out of the 203 mm gun. And it will shoot full warhead weight shells, not the firecrackers they use for 152/155 mm extended range "shells".

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    diabetus


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    Post  diabetus Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:44 pm

    Ukraine is now firing American 203mm rounds originally manufactured for the old m110 203mm gun.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:58 am

    Targets to hunt down and destroy... air control is important.

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    Post  limb Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:20 pm

    Are the 2S4s and 2S7s replaceable, when they get destroyed? Can russia restart their production?
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:47 pm

    There are still loads of them on storage which can be upgraded. Hundreds.
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    Post  limb Mon Jul 03, 2023 5:30 pm

    lancelot wrote:There are still loads of them on storage which can be upgraded. Hundreds.

    Theres actually very few 2S7s. Even less, since one was destroyed today by a GPS guided munition because russian aretillery crews are far too cocky.

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 03, 2023 5:55 pm

    Well blimp according to Western sources (ISS) Russia had about 60 2S7 MALKA's in service with another 260 2S7 PION's in reserve - before the SMO.

    Ukraine on the other hand had about 13 2S7 PION's and another 83 in reserve. So by the looks of it your Nazi buddies should have a shortage by now.

    In fact I can safely say that they should have a shortage of EVERYTHING atm Neutral

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    Post  Belisarius Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:36 pm

    Theres actually very few 2S7s. Even less, since one was destroyed today by a GPS guided munition because russian aretillery crews are far too cocky

    If you want to talk shit about someone, talk about yourself and not about Russian crews.
    This video has garbage resolution, you can't see any Z or V on the vehicles or any information about who owns the vehicles or who is carrying out the attack, let alone what type of weapon is being used in the attack.

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    Post  lyle6 Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:37 pm

    Belisarius wrote:
    If you want to talk shit about someone, talk about yourself and not about Russian crews.
    This video has garbage resolution, you can't see any Z or V on the vehicles or any information about who owns the vehicles or who is carrying out the attack, let alone what type of weapon is being used in the attack.
    Ukraine is cynical enough to waste entire brigades on PR stunts.

    Posting UAVs to watch their own stuff get blown up and pass it off as Russian is not beyond them...

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:40 pm

    Is there some noise in cages?

    2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion - Page 6 Zrzut_92
    2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion - Page 6 Zrzut_93
    2S4 Tyulpan and 2S7 Pion - Page 6 Zrzut_94

    Who wants to count? I made printscreens not to repeat the pieces. Laughing

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:54 pm

    That's about a hundred 2S4's in a relatively small area!

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:00 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    Belisarius wrote:
    If you want to talk shit about someone, talk about yourself and not about Russian crews.
    This video has garbage resolution, you can't see any Z or V on the vehicles or any information about who owns the vehicles or who is carrying out the attack, let alone what type of weapon is being used in the attack.
    Ukraine is cynical enough to waste entire brigades on PR stunts.

    Posting UAVs to watch their own stuff get blown up and pass it off as Russian is not beyond them...

    Bro, they have just flushed down the toilet entire "Oryx" project.
    Wondering why? Laughing
    Because Ukroisis has fewer and fewer Soviet heritage units of weapons, which means they can't lie anymore.
    They can't present a smoked Ukro tank with a comment that it is Russian, which was a usual practice.
    And more and more smoked NATO gear appears, we talk hundreds of pieces that can't be denied.
    Soooo, people will start to ask questions : if we watch the 1:10 proportion of NATO provided junk, then how was the proportion earlier?!?
    A whole project is useless now.

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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:22 pm

    Mir wrote:Well blimp according to Western sources (ISS) Russia had about 60 2S7 MALKA's in service with another 260 2S7 PION's in reserve - before the SMO.

    Same source gives Russia about 40 active 2S4 Tulpan's and another 390 in storage/reserve Smile

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:26 pm

    It is possible, but not crucial.
    What is, is a fact that Russia can refurbish all of them, having a working MIC complex made to supply the army.
    Not to earn money and care of stock market value.
    I have counted 12 2S19M2 on the production line, at the end stage of assembling.
    Ready to go any moment.
    That means the same output in the other stages.
    Every single replaced on the production stand in a regular matter.
    Only tracks gathered there were enough for 20 pieces.
    When I heard that 96 pcs of Krab in a couple of years was the most serious artillery production program in the whole of NATO, I was shocked.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:34 pm

    That's about a hundred 2S4's in a relatively small area!
    There is roughly the same number of 2S5´s in the same depot.

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:39 pm

    Still it is only one of depots Laughing

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    Post  limb Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:31 pm

    Mir wrote:Well blimp according to Western sources (ISS) Russia had about 60 2S7 MALKA's in service with another 260 2S7 PION's in reserve - before the SMO.

    Ukraine on the other hand had about 13 2S7 PION's and another 83 in reserve. So by the looks of it your Nazi buddies should have a shortage by now.

    In fact I can safely say that they should have a shortage of EVERYTHING atm Neutral
    They recieved ~20 from poland and czechoslovakia. Russia has only destroyed 3-4 ukrainian pions, according to lostarmour.

    If you want to talk shit about someone, talk about yourself and not about Russian crews.
    This video has garbage resolution, you can't see any Z or V on the vehicles or any information about who owns the vehicles or who is carrying out the attack, let alone what type of weapon is being used in the attack.

    Are russian MoD provided videos of M777 and krab destruction better resolution, outside of lancets?

    There is roughly the same number of 2S5´s in the same depot.

    There are no pictures 100s of 2S7s in storage. 250. Thats it, and less than 250 counting attrition. Theres also no orders for newly made 2S7Ms from the MoD.

    Even with 300 2S7s, they can only cover a tiny %age of the front.
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    Post  Belisarius Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:10 am

    Are russian MoD provided videos of M777 and krab destruction better resolution, outside of lancets?

    And how the M777/Krab destruction videos released by the Russian mod, in any resolution, has anything to do with me criticizing you for talking shit about Russian crews based on a video where there is nothing to indicate who is being attacked or who is the attacker?
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:07 am

    So now Russias problem is that they don't have thousands of 203mm and 240mm artillery weapons.

    The thing is that they do have thousands of 122mm and 152mm artillery pieces and that 203mm and 240mm guns and mortars are very specialist weapons designed for very specific targets and situations... but here is the cool bit... Russia also has aircraft so dropping 250kg and 500kg and even 1,500kg bombs on hard targets is still an option for them and with glide kits they can do this from standoff range very accurately.

    240mm rounds are fantastic for dealing with bunkers and very strong concrete buildings and complex trench lines... landing a 240mm mortar bomb in soft ground near a trench line will result in the explosion causing a mini earthquake collapsing trenches and underground tunnels... 120kgs of HE exploded a couple of metres into the ground will do that.

    For 203mm guns their core advantage would probably be their natural long range, but each shell weighing twice as much as most 152mm rounds also means much more damage and greater effect on heavier targets too.

    The 2S7 would be good for counter battery fire, but then so would Smerch...

    The Russians have so many options it is impressive... battlefield radar shows where enemy artillery is coming from but getting drones there to find the weapon that is the source of the fire is critical and having enough drones flying around looking for firing positions is the main problem that Russia seems to have dealt with.

    Once you have the recon drones flying around having lots of Lancet units around the place ready to launch a suicide drone to attack the targets the recon drone exposes is one way to deal with the problem... another would be to use GPS guided 203mm artillery shells for stationary firing positions... you could fire a few shells to bracket the target area in the hopes of hitting a towed gun as well as stored ammo and the truck used to haul the gun and ammo and troops around the battlefield...

    Personally I think airships could be developed with optics and radar and sensors to detect artillery and zoom in to find launch positions and then release glide bombs to attack such threats directly and immediately.

    Instead of carrying 20 tons of water ballast it could carry 10 tons of various types of glide bombs... fuel cell technology would allow bomb ballast to be used to engage targets with a dehumidifier to replace water ballast or consume some hydrogen(producing electricity and water ballast) to reduce lift to remain on station...

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