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    Christianity Thread: Theology and Philosophy

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    Austin

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    Post  Austin Tue May 24, 2016 2:37 pm

    This is 6 Audio Chapter on Gospel of John , I am just starting with first thought would share the same.

    I always found John Gospel very beautiful , Words cannot express it.

    https://stpaulcenter.com/studies/audio-lesson/book-of-signs-book-of-glory


    Please let me know your views
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    Post  Austin Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:13 am

    Near death experience testimony- Heaven! Christine

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:16 pm

    I'm curious about Christianity in Russia, how many persons are Christians?

    Russia
    The current population of the Russian Federation is 143,440,205 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016, based on the latest United Nations estimates.
    Russia population is equivalent to 1.95% of the total world population.
    Russia ranks number 9 in the list of countries by population.
    The population density in Russia is 9 per Km2 (23 people per mi2).
    The total land area is 16,299,981 Km2 (6,293,455 sq. miles)
    73.3 % of the population is urban (105,022,052 people in 2016)
    The median age in Russia is 38.9 years.

    versus population in USA, where Christians are beginning to feel like they are coming under attack by the government

    The current population of the United States of America is 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016, based on the latest United Nations estimates.
    the United States population is equivalent to 4.38% of the total world population.
    the U.S.A. ranks number 3 in the list of countries by population.
    The population density in the United States is 35 per Km2 (92 people per mi2).
    The total land area is 9,155,898 Km2 (3,535,111 sq. miles)
    82.5 % of the population is urban (268,012,791 people in 2016)
    The median age in the United States is 38.1 years.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:33 pm

    That population number makes no sense. Russia was 144M not too long ago and not only did they get Crimea back, but there has been a + growth in population and massive migration (roughly 1M since 2014) and over a million illegals for CIS countries and another 1M temp foreign workers. Real population is around 147M+.

    Anyway, Christianity is roughly over 80% of Russia's religious population which is apparently around 50% of the population (up from around 40% years back) and Islam is second with about 17 or so %.


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    Post  jhelb Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:02 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:
    versus population in USA, where Christians are beginning to feel like they are coming under attack by the government

    Christians are quite safe in Russia. The best part is you can be Presbyterian, Catholic and still be safe despite the fact that Russia is overwhelmingly Orthodox Christian (including your's truly). This is not the case in several Christian majority European countries.

    I suspect Christians are under attack in US because of the influx of immigrants from Africa & Asia who practice other religions like Islam, Hindouism, Buudhism etc. Unlike Christianity these eastern religions are not known to tolerate people of other faith.

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    Post  Svyatoslavich Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:53 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    I suspect Christians are under attack in US because of the influx of immigrants from Africa & Asia who practice other religions like Islam, Hindouism, Buudhism etc. Unlike Christianity these eastern religions are not known to tolerate people of other faith.
    No, the real problem is that the governments installed in most of the West (Latin America included) are part of the New World Order and extremely hostile to Christianity. The immigrants, Muslim mostly, are only the tool, and not the cause, and the destruction of Christianity includes many other fronts (promotion of homosexuality, pornography, drugs, abortion, divorce, ecology not as a pragmatic conservation of Earth but as an anti-humanistic ideology, etc). Even the current pope is now working for this, with the most recent papal exhortations "Amoris Laetitia" (justifying divorce) and "Laudato Si" (justifying ideologized ecology).

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    Post  jhelb Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:36 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:No, the real problem is that the governments installed in most of the West (Latin America included) are part of the New World Order and extremely hostile to Christianity. The immigrants, Muslim mostly, are only the tool, and not the cause, and the destruction of Christianity includes many other fronts (promotion of homosexuality, pornography, drugs, abortion, divorce, ecology not as a pragmatic conservation of Earth but as an anti-humanistic ideology, etc). Even the current pope is now working for this, with the most recent papal exhortations "Amoris Laetitia" (justifying divorce) and "Laudato Si" (justifying ideologized ecology).

    This is a nice post in Russia Beyond The Headlines. It states that in Brazil, US sponsored Evangelical groups are taking over Brazil & from just 5 per cent of the population in 1970, evangelicals now account for 22 per cent of Brazil’s 200 million population. They are on course to become a majority by the middle of the century.

    https://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than_fiction/2016/07/04/brics-should-prepare-for-braxit-a-brazilian-exit_608637

    This probably explains why Brazil wants to drop out of B.R.I.C.S

    Since you are from Argentina, I feel you will probably know better & can shed some light.

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    Post  Svyatoslavich Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:43 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    Svyatoslavich wrote:No, the real problem is that the governments installed in most of the West (Latin America included) are part of the New World Order and extremely hostile to Christianity. The immigrants, Muslim mostly, are only the tool, and not the cause, and the destruction of Christianity includes many other fronts (promotion of homosexuality, pornography, drugs, abortion, divorce, ecology not as a pragmatic conservation of Earth but as an anti-humanistic ideology, etc). Even the current pope is now working for this, with the most recent papal exhortations "Amoris Laetitia" (justifying divorce) and "Laudato Si" (justifying ideologized ecology).

    This is a nice post in Russia Beyond The Headlines. It states that in Brazil, US sponsored Evangelical groups are taking over Brazil & from just 5 per cent of the population in 1970, evangelicals now account for 22 per cent of Brazil’s 200 million population. They are on course to become a majority by the middle of the century.

    https://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than_fiction/2016/07/04/brics-should-prepare-for-braxit-a-brazilian-exit_608637

    This probably explains why Brazil wants to drop out of B.R.I.C.S

    Since you are from Argentina, I feel you will probably know better & can shed some light.
    In fact I am Brazilian, though I've been living in Buenos Aires for 11 years. Yes, every time I go to Brazil I see more Evangelical temples, the same is happening in Argentina and all over Latin America but at a slower pace. I think the Evangelicals are already the most numerous religious group in Brazil, most people are baptized as Catholic but seldom go to a church except for an eventual baptism, marriage or funeral of a close relative or friend, while those who are Evangelical usually attend masses, follow moral teachings, read the Bible, etc. Truth is that the biggest obstacle to legalizing abortion or homosexual marriage in Brazil comes from Evangelical groups within the Congress, while even the National Confederation of Bishops (Catholics) in Brazil has been completely silent for decades already. I don't know if this growth is sponsored by the US as an official policy, probably it is, as US-style Evangelism is the most commom form.

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    Post  jhelb Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:19 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:In fact I am Brazilian, though I've been living in Buenos Aires for 11 years. Yes, every time I go to Brazil I see more Evangelical temples, the same is happening in Argentina and all over Latin America but at a slower pace. I think the Evangelicals are already the most numerous religious group in Brazil, most people are baptized as Catholic but seldom go to a church except for an eventual baptism, marriage or funeral of a close relative or friend, while those who are Evangelical usually attend masses, follow moral teachings, read the Bible, etc. Truth is that the biggest obstacle to legalizing abortion or homosexual marriage in Brazil comes from Evangelical groups within the Congress, while even the National Confederation of Bishops (Catholics) in Brazil has been completely silent for decades already. I don't know if this growth is sponsored by the US as an official policy, probably it is, as US-style Evangelism is the most commom form.

    Great explanation. Fact is 70% of Americans believe that the whole world needs to be Evangelized. The U.S govt on the other hand believes in evangelizing people in every country so that they can use these individuals to influence every aspect of the local Government.

    This is what is unfortunately happening in Brazil. Maybe local people do not realize it yet.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:40 am

    Evangelical Christianity keeps it's energy and drive in sharp contrast to Catholicism which has long since lost balls If I had to choose between Europe being overran by Muslimms/Jews or whatever Abrahamic BS or Evangelical Christianity, I would choose Evangelicals... you could ask me 1000 times and my answer would not change.
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    Post  jhelb Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:01 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Evangelical Christianity keeps it's energy and drive in sharp contrast to Catholicism which has long since lost balls If I had to choose between Europe being overran by Muslimms/Jews or whatever Abrahamic BS or Evangelical Christianity, I would choose Evangelicals... you could ask me 1000 times and my answer would not change.

    Maybe because I am an Orthodox Christian which is why I think Orthodox Christianity is the best but how is Evangelical Christianity not Abrahamic BS?

    Several countries in Europe are predominantly Protestant like UK, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark etc. I hardly see any progress in those countries.

    Jews & Muslims if at all they run over Europe it will be because of Evangelicals not Catholics.
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    Post  Austin Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:31 pm

    Must go through this

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:44 pm

    I thought of this phrase this morning: "A mighty fortress is our God ".
    It's been 4 years since I posted on this thread!
    I'm still a Christian! Thank God!
    (I'm) Kind of beat up, but I still love Christianity, not just the doctrine of it, but I really love the unexplainable, force of God in this world, and in humans! I've always loved it since I was a kid, and used to ride horses all day long with my Dad, on a huge Texas ranch. Seeing some of the most beautiful country. After I was grown, and became a Christian, I realized that at that time God revealed Himself to me, and His awesomeness, in His awesome works of nature. I've always loved the fact that God, in fact, is really very involved in persons' lives, whether they are aware of it or not. I also love the Supernatural, unexplainable acts of God, miracles. & I most definitely love the love of God, that He has for human beings.



    A mighty fortress is our God, A bulwark never failing

    Author: Martin Luther (1529); Translator: Frederick H. Hedge (1852)

    1 A mighty fortress is our God,
    a bulwark never failing;
    our helper he, amid the flood
    of mortal ills prevailing.
    For still our ancient foe
    does seek to work us woe;
    his craft and power are great,
    and armed with cruel hate,
    on earth is not his equal.

    2 Did we in our own strength confide,
    our striving would be losing,
    were not the right Man on our side,
    the Man of God's own choosing.
    You ask who that may be?
    Christ Jesus, it is he;
    Lord Sabaoth his name,
    from age to age the same;
    and he must win the battle.

    3 And though this world, with devils filled,
    should threaten to undo us,
    we will not fear, for God has willed
    his truth to triumph through us.
    The prince of darkness grim,
    we tremble not for him;
    his rage we can endure,
    for lo! his doom is sure;
    one little word shall fell him.

    4 That Word above all earthly powers
    no thanks to them abideth;
    the Spirit and the gifts are ours
    through him who with us sideth.
    Let goods and kindred go,
    this mortal life also;
    the body they may kill:
    God's truth abideth still;
    his kingdom is forever!

    Psalter Hymnal, (Gray), 1987



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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:32 pm

    Friedrich Engels wrote:All religion, however, is nothing but the fantastic reflection in men’s minds of those external forces which control their daily life, a reflection in which the terrestrial forces assume the form of supernatural forces.

    In the beginnings of history it was the forces of nature which were first so reflected, and which in the course of further evolution underwent the most manifold and varied personifications among the various peoples. This early process has been traced back by comparative mythology, at least in the case of the Indo-European peoples, to its origin in the Indian Vedas, and in its further evolution it has been demonstrated in detail among the Indians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Germans and, so far as material is available, also among the Celts, Lithuanians and Slavs.

    But it is not long before, side by side with the forces of nature, social forces begin to be active — forces which confront man as equally alien and at first equally inexplicable, dominating him with the same apparent natural necessity as the forces of nature themselves. The fantastic figures, which at first only reflected the mysterious forces of nature, at this point acquire social attributes, become representatives of the forces of history. At a still further stage of evolution, all the natural and social attributes of the numerous gods are transferred to one almighty god, who is but a reflection of the abstract man. Such was the origin of monotheism, which was historically the last product of the vulgarised philosophy of the later Greeks and found its incarnation in the exclusively national god of the Jews, Jehovah. In this convenient, handy and universally adaptable form, religion can continue to exist as the immediate, that is, the sentimental form of men's relation to the alien, natural and social, forces which dominate them, so long as men remain under the control of these forces. However, we have seen repeatedly that in existing bourgeois society men are dominated by the economic conditions created by themselves, by the means of production which they themselves have produced, as if by an alien force. The actual basis of the religious reflective activity therefore continues to exist, and with it the religious reflection itself.

    And although bourgeois political economy has given a certain insight into the causal connection of this alien domination, this makes no essential difference. Bourgeois economics can neither prevent crises in general, nor protect the individual capitalists from losses, bad debts and bankruptcy, nor secure the individual workers against unemployment and destitution. It is still true that man proposes and God (that is, the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production) disposes. Mere knowledge, even if it went much further and deeper than that of bourgeois economic science, is not enough to bring social forces under the domination of society. What is above all necessary for this, is a social act. And when this act has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are now held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which confront them as an irresistible alien force, when therefore man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes — only then will the last alien force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.

    Herr Dühring, however, cannot wait until religion dies this, its natural, death. He proceeds in more deep-rooted fashion. He out-Bismarcks Bismarck; he decrees sharper May laws [127] not merely against Catholicism, but against all religion whatsoever; he incites his gendarmes of the future against religion, and thereby helps it to martyrdom and a prolonged lease of life.

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:29 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Friedrich Engels wrote:All religion, however, is nothing but the fantastic reflection in men’s minds of those external forces which control their daily life, a reflection in which the terrestrial forces assume the form of supernatural forces.

    In the beginnings of history it was the forces of nature which were first so reflected, and which in the course of further evolution underwent the most manifold and varied personifications among the various peoples. This early process has been traced back by comparative mythology, at least in the case of the Indo-European peoples, to its origin in the Indian Vedas, and in its further evolution it has been demonstrated in detail among the Indians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Germans and, so far as material is available, also among the Celts, Lithuanians and Slavs.

    But it is not long before, side by side with the forces of nature, social forces begin to be active — forces which confront man as equally alien and at first equally inexplicable, dominating him with the same apparent natural necessity as the forces of nature themselves. The fantastic figures, which at first only reflected the mysterious forces of nature, at this point acquire social attributes, become representatives of the forces of history. At a still further stage of evolution, all the natural and social attributes of the numerous gods are transferred to one almighty god, who is but a reflection of the abstract man. Such was the origin of monotheism, which was historically the last product of the vulgarised philosophy of the later Greeks and found its incarnation in the exclusively national god of the Jews, Jehovah. In this convenient, handy and universally adaptable form, religion can continue to exist as the immediate, that is, the sentimental form of men's relation to the alien, natural and social, forces which dominate them, so long as men remain under the control of these forces. However, we have seen repeatedly that in existing bourgeois society men are dominated by the economic conditions created by themselves, by the means of production which they themselves have produced, as if by an alien force. The actual basis of the religious reflective activity therefore continues to exist, and with it the religious reflection itself.

    And although bourgeois political economy has given a certain insight into the causal connection of this alien domination, this makes no essential difference. Bourgeois economics can neither prevent crises in general, nor protect the individual capitalists from losses, bad debts and bankruptcy, nor secure the individual workers against unemployment and destitution. It is still true that man proposes and God (that is, the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production) disposes. Mere knowledge, even if it went much further and deeper than that of bourgeois economic science, is not enough to bring social forces under the domination of society. What is above all necessary for this, is a social act. And when this act has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are now held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which confront them as an irresistible alien force, when therefore man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes — only then will the last alien force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.

    Herr Dühring, however, cannot wait until religion dies this, its natural, death. He proceeds in more deep-rooted fashion. He out-Bismarcks Bismarck; he decrees sharper May laws [127] not merely against Catholicism, but against all religion whatsoever; he incites his gendarmes of the future against religion, and thereby helps it to martyrdom and a prolonged lease of life.


    I was never interested in reading Engels. For no reason, really. Just didn't interest me. I probably wasn't smart enough to read him! So he thought that the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production was "God", and if "the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production" was eliminated, then "religion" and God would cease to exist.

    There's a difference between "religion", and Christianity, and God.  God existed before religion /religions, and God existed before Christianity, and Christianity didn't exist until Jesus Christ. Christianity IS following Jesus Christ.

    Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

    What is a disciple?

    disciples: 3101
    maqhthvß Mathetes (math-ay-tes');
    Word Origin: Greek,  Noun Masculine, Strong #: 3101


    a learner, pupil, disciple  


    Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

    Christian: 5546
    Cristianovß Christianos (khris-tee-an-os');
    Word Origin: Greek,  Noun Masculine, Strong #: 5546


    Christian, a follower of Christ

    1peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:44 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:I was never interested in reading Engels. For no reason, really. Just didn't interest me. I probably wasn't smart enough to read him! So he thought that the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production was "God", and if "the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production" was eliminated, then "religion" and God would cease to exist.

    What Engels meant is that, human turn to the belief in supernatural "gods" or "deities", because there are so many unexpected events, tragedies, unfortunates, bad lucks, mysterious issues,... both in the nature world and in the society, that humanity is still unable to solve using their current knowledge of science.

    Just like a man cannot use Newton's three basic laws to escape from his status of extreme poverty. Or when his beloved relatives passed away, Einstein's relative theories cannot mitigate his pain.

    People believe in Gods not because they are stupid. Religious people are not stupid. Religious people are decent human and many of them are very talented and very good people. It is the social problem, the social issues, and the injustice, inequalities in the current society that take a toll in human soul and make them turn into religion to soothe their pain and have a sense of hope. Religion is the analgesia of the masses.

    In that paragraph actually Engels was criticizing the discriminatory acts against religious people. Engels said that persecution and discrimination against religious people is wrong and will not solve anything. Fixing the social issues and fighting the social injustices to restore the human belief in the real world is the only solution.

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:02 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:I was never interested in reading Engels. For no reason, really. Just didn't interest me. I probably wasn't smart enough to read him! So he thought that the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production was "God", and if "the alien domination of the capitalist mode of production" was eliminated, then "religion" and God would cease to exist.

    What Engels meant is that, human turn to the belief in supernatural "gods" or "deities", because there are so many unexpected events, tragedies, unfortunates, bad lucks, mysterious issues,... both in the nature world and in the society, that humanity is still unable to solve using their current knowledge of science.

    Just like a man cannot use Newton's three basic laws to escape from his status of extreme poverty. Or when his beloved relatives passed away, Einstein's relative theories cannot mitigate his pain.

    People believe in Gods not because they are stupid. Religious people are decent human and many of them are very talented and very good people. It is the social problem, the social issues, and the injustice, inequalities in the current society that take a toll in human soul and make them turn into religion to soothe their pain and have a sense of hope. Religion is the analgesia of the masses.

    In that paragraph actually Engels was criticizing the discriminatory acts against religious people. Engels said that persecution and discrimination against religious people is wrong and will not solve anything. Fixing the social issues and fighting the social injustices to restore the human belief in the real world is the only solution.


    Oh that's a fantastic post! & I really agree with this: "that humanity is still unable to solve using their current knowledge of science."


    Well, we are really getting into something deep, because "Religious people are decent human and many of them are very talented and very good people. ", according to Christianity, following Jesus Christ, none of that is able to save anyone, only faith in Jesus Christ. and faith in Jesus Christ is faith in His suffering, crucifixion, shed blood, death, burial, and resurrection, which many persons find not acceptable.

    Also "religious" persons can be very mean. "Religious" persons persecuted Jesus and His followers, and other Christians throughout the ages. & still do. Persons who claim to be Christians, but who are self-righteous, can be very mean to other Christians. and non-Christians.
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    Post  higurashihougi Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:06 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:Oh that's a fantastic post! & I really agree with this: "that humanity is still unable to solve using their current knowledge of science."

    Allow me to elaborate more on that issue, on my own point of view. You are free to disagree with my intepretation, and I sincerely appreciate your kindness to listen to it first.

    First, you have to firmly memorize that, science here including both natural science, and social-economic science.

    And the unsolved issues of humanity include both natural issues, and socio-economic issues. That is why I also mention personal tragedies, unpredictable crisies, economic depression, and so on.

    The are gods and deities represent the (used to be) uncontrollable natural events of pandemics, draught, famine, flood, storms, fire... And for the uncontrollable social-economical events, people also explained these as "God's will" or "will of Fate".

    If you read carefully the writing of Engels I quoted above, you can see that he pointed out these point quite clearly.

    Second, science and scientific activities have class nature. Science is NOT neutral. It results is directed and designed to serve the class interest of the ruling class, and to promote the social hierarchy and economic models that suit the benefit of the ruling class. In the modern area, science and inventions is made to serve the capitalist class, to enhance the efficiency and intensity of the extraction of surplus value for the capitalist class, and to preserve the capitalist economy - together with all of its inherent flaws and illnesses.

    You can see the class nature of science very clearly in the applied sciences and social-economy sciences as they directly serve the application needs of the capitalist enterprises and express the economic viewpoint of the bourgeioise.

    Now you see why Engels mentioned about the bourgeioise science and the capitalist mode of production in the paragraph I quote ? The bourgeioise science is meant to preserve the capitalist mode of production together with all of its inherent flaws, hence that "science" will never solve the capitalist issues of economic crises, the anarchy and unpredictable traits of production and commercial, and the unemployment and destitution of the working class. When all of the uncontrollable, unsolved issues persists, people will continue to have a need of spiritual haven to soothe their mind and relieve their pain.

    The only way to solve all of these social problems is a social revolution which topple the capitalist domination, and together with that a new form of science, which belong to the working class and serve the interest of the working class, will have to be born.

    Again, I understand that you may disagree with my intepretation and you are free to do so.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:23 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:Oh that's a fantastic post! & I really agree with this: "that humanity is still unable to solve using their current knowledge of science."

    Allow me to elaborate more on that issue, on my own point of view. You are free to disagree with my intepretation, and I sincerely appreciate your kindness to listen to it first.

    First, you have to firmly memorize that, science here including both natural science, and social-economic science.

    And the unsolved issues of humanity include both natural issues, and socio-economic issues. That is why I also mention personal tragedies, unpredictable crisies, economic depression, and so on.

    The are gods and deities represent the (used to be) uncontrollable natural events of pandemics, draught, famine, flood, storms, fire... And for the uncontrollable social-economical events, people also explained these as "God's will" or "will of Fate".

    If you read carefully the writing of Engels I quoted above, you can see that he pointed out these point quite clearly.

    Second, science and scientific activities have class nature. Science is NOT neutral. It results is directed and designed to serve the class interest of the ruling class, and to promote the social hierarchy and economic models that suit the benefit of the ruling class. In the modern area, science and inventions is made to serve the capitalist class, to enhance the efficiency and intensity of the extraction of surplus value for the capitalist class, and to preserve the capitalist economy - together with all of its inherent flaws and illnesses.

    You can see the class nature of science very clearly in the applied sciences and social-economy sciences as they directly serve the application needs of the capitalist enterprises and express the economic viewpoint of the bourgeioise.

    Now you see why Engels mentioned about the bourgeioise science and the capitalist mode of production in the paragraph I quote ? The bourgeioise science is meant to preserve the capitalist mode of production together with all of its inherent flaws, hence that "science" will never solve the capitalist issues of economic crises, the anarchy and unpredictable traits of production and commercial, and the unemployment and destitution of the working class. When all of the uncontrollable, unsolved issues persists, people will continue to have a need of spiritual haven to soothe their mind and relieve their pain.

    The only way to solve all of these social problems is a social revolution which topple the capitalist domination, and together with that a new form of science, which belong to the working class and serve the interest of the working class, will have to be born.

    Again, I understand that you may disagree with my intepretation and you are free to do so.



    I feel the same way, that you and I are free to agree on points or disagree! I am enjoying the conversation!

    For me, I can see that you are a writer who I have to read carefully to understand!


    I understand this: "The are gods and deities represent the (used to be) uncontrollable natural events of pandemics, draught, famine, flood, storms, fire... And for the uncontrollable social-economical events, people also explained these as "God's will" or "will of Fate"."


    I think that pure science does not have class, but I do agree that the "robber barons" of every age, have definitely used science to further their acquirement of money and power.

    But there have been many pure Scientists, who have furthered the good of mankind with Science. for example Madame Curie. Whatever she did, it was to benefit mankind, not to benefit robber barrons.


    I just personally don't agree with this: "The only way to solve all of these social problems is a social revolution which topple the capitalist domination, and together with that a new form of science, which belong to the working class and serve the interest of the working class, will have to be born."

    for myself I don't believe that toppling capitalist domination & a new form of science will solve all the social problems of the world.

    Because I don't believe that man is inherently good. I believe that man is born a sinner. Which means that man is born in the condition of everything in him or her is , man's nature that man is born with, is geared towards sin, and the only solution is Jesus Christ, to be reborn, born again, to ask God to forgive you of your sins (transgressing God's law /laws -which is love), and asking Jesus Christ to come into your heart, to be your Lord and Savior, to change your Spiritual nature to one that is geared to obeying God, and wanting God's will, submitting to God, and His will.

    All of Christianity is about Jesus Christ, and when you read about Jesus in the New Testament, you read about a man / fully God, fully human, the son of God, the son of man, who did what no one else has ever done, and what no one else could do, and who came as the Savior of the world.

    He is above all political parties, all religions, He is above capitalism, Engels, Marxism, Communism, Socialism, no religion, He is above everything. He is above science, He is above nature.

    Only Jesus Christ can change a person's spiritual nature, and their heart.

    A person really can meet God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost, face to face in all His power.

    That is why persons have followed Jesus Christ, and been Christians all these years, no matter what.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:53 pm

    Carl Musch Indigenous Ministry Links founder-how it began.

    Our living God will do good things in us, and for us, and through us by His Holy Spirit


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    Post  Vann7 Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:07 pm



    One of the biggest problems humanity face , to gain knowledge , and understand how to solve
    their problems , is that they are not prepared ,not properly trained , neither educated in something
    so important for people , that can save their lives many times . When you go to school ,they teach you math , they teach you science , they teach you history ,they teach you languages .etc..

    schools and university show you a ton of books and data , where they tell you , "this is what you need to learn to be educated."

    The education system in the west , give you a mountain of data , telling you ,"this is what you need to know to progress in life". but they don't teach you the most important and basic things , on how
    to understand yourself , how to understand others , how to understand society . They don't teach you how to know if the data they tell you at school or university is true or not ?

    in other words , society is only trained to follow their authorities ,what they tell them ,trained to believe blindly in the information they are given as the "truth" , the world education system is based on creating people dependent on their authorities for knowledge and do not encourage not even once to question the official data they give to you , the official narrative.. , through most of people lives
    between controlled school and controlled media , the institutions that controls your country , educate people , not to think , but to memorize what they are told instead. And do things as they are told to do it.

    People talk about the horrible education system in the west , but the education system is bad and at best incomplete world wide ,in the west and the east.

    This major education huge limitations , are imposed in population in several ways.

    1) one way ,is through controlled media , when people are constantly told how they need to think.

    2) another way is through censorship .

    3) the other way , is by the promotion of bullshit past traditions .
    Many times traditions that are bad for human development ,but repeated because that's what their ancestor did , so to honor them ,we repeat it . Rolling Eyes

    And the only way out of all this garbage and fake information , is by study in university some logical thinking courses or that people by themselves ,out of curiosity research about the topics , by just reading books.

    the thing that have helped a lot more society ,to become independent thinkers and do their own personal research and figure out things by themselves is peoples desire for knowledge and the freedom in internet.

    That said , the reason why the world is as chaotic as it is , and there is only a small tiny minority
    more or less educated to at least understand , when they are been told lies or the truth . the reason the world is chaotic , full of conflicts , full of divisions , and contradictions , is because vast overwhelming majority of society at the world , have been trained to follow , the thinking of their political institutions , their religious institutions , their scientific institutions and health institutions .

    and if there is something this pandemic have teach us all , is that ....

    All the world institutions have failed in preparing society ,to handle a real crisis .
    Humanity is not prepared , to handle a real life existential crisis , and they are easily influenced
    by fear , to take a vaccine shot ,that many reports tells is not safe . but that society are blindly taking simply because they have been trained through the entire lives to follow blindly ,what their
    authorities tells them is "True". So this is a case of blind faith in their system.

    Almost nobody will ever imagine that 95% of their doctors and health institutions will give them something that is not good for them ? they are not evil right? They are doctors right? they are supposed to be very smart no?

    Today most proffessionals ,are dumb idiots ,that only memorized ,what the institutions told them it was true , but they have not been educated to question the official narrative ,that could be wrong.
    if the CDC says a vaccine is safe ,they all will believe it blindly ,because they say so..
    and this other doctor follows ,what those above him tell him, and the other follow the other.

    this is the same in religion.

    people follows blindly whatever thing their religion tells them ,without questioning it.
    without investigating it , without putting it to test. if it works or not.

    so in religion , you have this so called holly books , that god gave to humans right?

    reality check , all this holly books , torah ,bible and quran was not written by any GOD but by humans.

    so all world major religions ,their manual have been 100% written by humans ,that make mistakes .

    My point is ,
    you can't take blindly any data , any information ,to be 100% correct, no matter the human source that gave it to you. and why is that ?

    because vast majority of the society and people in this planet , is heavily dependent on their thinking
    and they just follow what they are being told , and vast majority of people don't question the official narrative and investigate it ,wether is true or not.. this behavior happens , of blind faith on institutions , happens weather is religion or science or health industry. it happens.

    idiots are people that live all their lives following ,what others believe ,and don't have their own independent thinking , to investigate and test things by their own , to see if they work or not.

    All things said , you cannot take the official institutions are the truth in everything they say or claim.
    weather is christniaty or islam or judaism , weather is american pharma industry , or russian or chinese, you need to believe by experience ,not by bullshit blind faith. just because your doctors claims a vaccine is safe ,does not means it is , people need to verify . because like i said , overhwleming majority of people in this world ,are incapable of independent thinking ,of logical thinking and incapable to see the other side of the story.

    only through experience and validation , and verification , through investigating others experience ,
    and testing them by yourself ,you can know if you know , if something works or not.
    weather is religion or science , weather is a religious teaching or a vaccine shot , only by having independent thinking and doing your own investigations , and research and connecting the dots ,
    you can figure out , if any institution religious of scientific , is correct or not , in any information they give you.

    Because most people follows blindly ,what their institutions tells them ,you have so many religious wars , and each people interpret things in their own way.

    because overwhelming majority of people ,follows blindly their scientific and health institutions ,we have so many injuries and deaths of people ,that blindly followed their doctors without first verifying
    if the information they claimed was correct. religious good intentioned people make mistakes , same with doctors too.. and this is why there is a small tiny minority of doctors and spiritual teachers educating people about the truth , and the things they need to know.

    is for the reason , i adventure to say..

    If something is accepted by the vast overwhelming majority of society as "Truth" and is supported by their official institutions and media ,is more than likely it is not true. and they are just blindly following what they have been told to believe.


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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:06 pm

    I just wanted to say, Vann7. that I read all of your thread, and thought it a very good post.

    I also think persons should think for themselves and decide, but I know you know, I do think the Bible was inspired by God.

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16 KJV)

    Just my belief...
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:43 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:I just wanted to say, Vann7. that I read all of your thread, and thought it a very good post.

    I also think persons should think for themselves and decide, but I know you know, I do think the Bible was inspired by God.

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16 KJV)

    Just my belief...

    As a firm believer that christianity values , based on the positive things i have seen from personal experience, it can do in society , in helping society and families to stop fighting , unite and become closer .. at the same time ,  you have to be aware of the historical facts of how the bible was written , before you say "it was 100% inspired by GOD".

    Lets give you some facts..  but before you read them , do not go in the defensive mode ,thinking
    im attacking christianity , because im not ,  as a catholic born christian ,that never visit church , i believe it still have a major place in society and in the world, because is the most practical and important religion the world ,that could truly help society to be civilized and not animals.

    However , this does not means that the man created religions about jesus life is perfect.
    but far from it.

    To understand the mistakes and problems the bible have , you need to understand first how the bible was wrote, who did it , who belong the scriptures that you read. how the vatican/orthodox church organized the bible. and more importantly ,it was humans ,who make mistakes , who selected the scriptures and did the translations from one language to another.

    if you happen to understand more than one language , you will quickly realize is not possible to always , translate with accuracy some words ,to another language ,you could only give at times an approximation , but there are times , some things cannot be translated , with the same meaning they were told..  This is exactly the reason ,why Jesus spoke to the large crowds in public in parables ,
    means *made up stories* ,he invented , so that people focus not in the words , but instead in the emotional content ,to illustrate the real message of his teachings..
    this was pure brilliance , because it is possible to make mistakes in translations passing things from one language to another ,but everyone will understand simple life stories with emotional content that everyone can easily identify , and admire the behavior of people in the end .

    Take for example .. what i told, that the major world problem the world face , is that vast majority of people blindly trust their authorities , their government , politicians ,scientist ,religious and health authorities .  vast majority of people assume , that just because it came from a major "more educated" and experienced expert "that it have to be always true.  No

    but this is not true , for reasons explained , that vast majority of people in this world , follows
    blindly what they are told to be true without them doing their own investigation and verifying it.
    Means ,that having a high scholar degree from university is not enough . is even more important that those who claims anything big , need big evidence to back it up , and shown to be independent thinkers too that prefer to do their own investigation and verify things by themselves..

    The " christian" bible is not one book but two.
    The "christian" bible are two books in one.
    you have the hebrews Torah ,the jews prophets teachings about what they believed about GOD in the first half of the bible.
    the second half of the bible are the teachings of jesus ,combined with the teachings and opinions of his followers..

    This will scare you a bit , but is impossible to claim ,the bible was "inspired by GOD"
    why ? because not only the old testament is based on a prechristian religion of people that does not recognize jesus as a savior or prophet or anything" but also that their teachings contradict in so many ways , most things jesuschrist preached.  

    remember , the followers of the old testament , the jews , are the same ones that conspired to kill
    jesus , because he was destroying their religion and their fake God.  If you pay attention to the old testament ,you will see that jews version of "GOD" is one of a tyrant ,that is waiting at the slightest opportunity to punish people.  The God of the jews is a GOD that promote wars , and promise jews to destroy all their enemies.. The chosen ones , a god that play favorites.  Neutral

    if you read the new testament , the gospels of jesus part , he talks of a totally different GOD , a god of compassion and forgiveness and God of no violence . jesus rejected violence to be directed against others. Jesus God , was a god of always forgiveness , and he explained this very clearly ,on his parables.. of the lost son , and the parables of the lost sheep , and by his life life own example ,that he refused to condemn even those enemies he had , that conspired to kill him.  Jesus claimed to be equal to God ,they are one , and he even told ,that his kingdom is not in this world.   in other words ..jesus did not cared at all about politics , the jews were highly political , and only cared about power and control over others.  

    The old testament ,Torah of jews , the bible first half , the jews scriptures ,jews prophets teachings are an outward looking ideology. that cares more about fame and power ,politics and money.

    the new testament in the bible is the total opposite , is a totally inward looking religion. that do not care about fame ,power or human glory.  christianity ideology only cares about the inward side of humanity ,about their thoughts ,emotions and feelings.

    remember...
    when jesus was asked by his enemies (the torah jews) , trying to get him in trouble with the roman justice. when they asked jesus if they should pay taxes.. what was jesus response ?
    give to god , what is from god , give to the caesar what is of caesar.  

    if you read the bible , the christian part , not the jews part.. not jews teachings ,but jesus direct teachings, that is john ,luke ,mathew and mark , that is what his disciples claim, heard and saw jesus saying and doing,you will notice very very clearly, again and again and again , that the only thing jesus cared , was about people minds and hearts..about educating society how to think , how to behave with others, it was an internal thing, (not external) and not cared at all about politics or power or society position .  so this is why you will be at times a lot confused by reading the old testament in the bible , because it shows a GOD that is vengeful ,and even regret his creations.
    this is not the GOD that jesus promoted. So if God exist, then someone is lying, either jesus or the jews torah and his prophets. or maybe it was simply the understanding of jews about GOD was very limited and jesus came to upgrade that old and outdated beliefs.. and reveal the real nature of GOD ,by being God himself. and showing it in practice with life examples and not just with ideas and pretty words.


    contradictions..
    jews religion prohibited alcohol... jesus drink a lot of wine.   lol1
    jews religion prohibit working in the last day of week ,why ? because thats what supposely god did , that created the world and the 7th day he rest.  Rolling Eyes
    jesus in the other hand annoyed the jews by having no resting day.
    jews wanted to stone prostitues to death , jesus invited prostitutes to a dinner and behaved
    with them ,like they were queens of the royalty.  Smile

    the god of jews , and jews , they all behaved very differently ,totally opposite to the God of jesus and jesus .

    jews prophets created the 10 commmandments.. so if they are the word of god.
    why jesus feel the need to replace the 10 commandments with their own new rule , and promote a new religion and on top . if judaism is so good , why jesus did not promoted that religion instead?
    why he encouraged his followers to create a new religion in his name ?  Shocked
    perhaps because jews totally missed the point about God ? and what not the truth?
     Wink
     
    Jews were furious with jesus , because he was literary destroying piece by piece every teaching
    of their prophets in the torah , and converting all jews to christianity , jews believed in one god , but jesus told ok there is only one God , but that i am that God. so this is why they were furious with jesus. for far less jews will kill someone today.    

    something that no christian religion will ever teach you ,no priest will ever dare to tell you , for fear of being censored. is that jesus teachings totally contradict vast majority of the hebrews/jews religious prophets teachings ,that justifyed murder ,wars and violence.                                                    

    it was for nothing ,that jesus condemned jews way of worshiping god , and even spoke about them
    in terms of "synagoge of satan".

    If you are a einstein fan , you need to follow einstein teachings right?
    if you are a jesus fan , you need to follow jesus teachings.. not moses teachings , not abraham the one who was going to kill his son because "heard voices".   christianity is not the bible, christian teachings are only jesus teachings..  true christians , need to follow only jesus teachings in the bible and nothing else. the 4 gospel in the bible , are the only true teachings of jesus . but remember this are the records in scriptures ,from the point of view of his disciples and trasnlated from greek to your language, it was not "inspired" teachings, but scriptures from memory , what jesus closest disciples heard and saw jesus saying and doing.


    It means that if you are a christian ,the most important teachings in the bible, are NOT the ones "inspired" by the "holy spirit" ,but the teachings that people heard with their ears , and things that people saw with their own eyes  that apparently really happened in the real world about 2,000 years ago.


    This is because jesus apparently had hundreds of witness , that followed him, and wrote what they heard and saw , so is a kind of a primitive form of journalism , of what people saw and heard  jesus saying. Not perfect , but can be good enough if enough scriptures from different witness point of view are found and they all more or less , match the general concept of what jesus did and he told .

    So this is why the bible is so confusing for christians, this was the biggest mistake ever made , the biggest sabotage to the christian religion ,to mix , pagan teachings , a GOD that justified wars and murdering of womens with stones, combine it with jesus totally opposite teachings.  The only similarity between old testament -torah , and jesus teachings in the new testament , is that both believe in one GOD.
    but thats where the similarities ends.. if it can be called a "similarity".. because after all jesus told ,there is one god and he was that god.   Laughing  and for jews that's blasphemy.

    Christianity is not an abrahamic religion , jesus only used the jews scriptures ,fables and stories ,as reference to better reach the jewish audience , but everything jesus teach, contradicted in many ways , everything that jews "inspired by god" prophets teach in the old testament in the bible.

    what you have today as "christianity " with the exception of catholic church ,
    is a infiltration of zionism and western politics.

    -evangelicals ,are bible worshipers more than jesus followers. they focus more in the old testament. surprising? not at all.. evangelicals in america are infiltrated by zionism.  Wink  
    - mormons are "christians" without the bible , with a new bible ,they made up and created and conventiently reverse jesus teachings.
    -jehovan witness are christians without jesus..   lol1  

    and why this mistakes happen ? this corruption happens?
    for the reasons explained earlier..  vast majority of people are trainned from childhood , by the system ,to not think by themselves and not question the official institutions narrative ,whether they are religions or scientific or politics or health industry , is a bad habit that most pople have , to blindly trust in everything they are being told by the authorities that rule above them.  So the average citizen ,in the west will believe whatever their government authority  ,scientist authority , health industry authorities will tell them is the truth and only a very small tiny , percent of population ,will dare to question the official information given to them.

    one of the most interesting things , about christianity , that never cease to amaze me , is that it cannot be debunked , if you focus in jesus teachings only , it can't.  you can argue whether jesus or god are fiction and just made up, and that will be valid discussion and debate.   but what cannot be argued is whether christian values works or not.. they just work..


    And the christian ideology from the scientific point have been studied , and popular atheist scholars with phd in psichology have found it surprisingly practical and effective teachings for society. to get everyone in the same boat and move in the same direction. the new testament 4 gospels -cristian  teachings are truly effective in promoting a better society. and this alone make christianity a worthy religion to teach , weather god exist or not and the story is fiction or not.. if christianity moral values works ,then it works.



    Now unfortunately , man made religions , can distort christian teachings , if they focus in the non christian teachings of the bible that is the old testment , that containst a lot of hate , and a Racist God ,that wants to destroy other nations and find pleasure to punish his own creation.  

    This is an example of how a mythological religion , can transform the life of an atheist , even
    without seeing any God or any miracle . Christianity is a true ideology , that can truly promote
    society to come along together ,regardless of differences..



    personally think that is highly possible the figure of jesus was not a myth ,there is so many scriptures , witness that claims jesus existed, and on top of that, the ideology of christianity ,was too clever and smart for the time and even for today time. It is however possible that his miracles and ressurrection thing ,was all made up by his disciples , but who knows.. which ever is the case.. true or not , i see christianity ,as a very practical ideology , that can truly help society ,to guide them , to get along together and stop fighting. Christianity is so effective , that the anglo west is doing all they can to try to destroy that ideology. and why the liberal movement was created, and alliances with islam made by the west. There is war against christianity , against christian values , and it is because is an ideology that teach people to become independent thinkers ,and not become slaves of any system.
    this is if ... you happen to follow the direct christian ideology and not the religions.




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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:07 am

    Vann7, I can see that you've given it a lot of thought, and that you know a lot.

    The thing about Jesus is He did something no other god has done. Jesus Christ was also a Jew. & when He was born, the Israelites was still sacrificing bulls and goats in the temple for the temporary remission of sins.

    Jesus said He came to be the sacrifice for the sin/s of all mankind.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

    testament: 1242
    diaqhvkh Diatheke (dee-ath-ay'-kay);
    Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 1242
    a disposition, arrangement, of any sort, which one wishes to be valid, the last disposition which one makes of his earthly possessions after his death, a testament or will
    a compact, a covenant, a testament
    God's covenant with Noah, etc.



    remission: 859
    a[fesiß Aphesis (af'-es-is);
    Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 859
    release from bondage or imprisonment
    forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty



    Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

    Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

    Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins

    Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

    Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

    Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    sanctified: 37
    aJgiavzw Hagiazo (hag-ee-ad'-zo);
    Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 37
    to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
    to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
    consecrate things to God
    dedicate people to God
    to purify
    to cleanse externally
    to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
    to purify internally by renewing of the soul






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    Vann7

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    Christianity Thread: Theology and Philosophy - Page 2 Empty Re: Christianity Thread: Theology and Philosophy

    Post  Vann7 Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:52 am

    This is why is so cool to verify the source of the information... of who told what ,
    where and when. and why you can't take everything in the bible as 100% truth.
    the reason is because the bible was written by a lot of people , not by God  and not by jesus ,
    but by jewish prophets (the old testament) who had their own idea of GOD that jesus debunked
    and contradicted all the time , and by followers of jesus .


    not even all the new testament are the teachings of jesus.
    you also have have the personal believes /teachings of his apostles , of their opinions what was christianity all about.  and it will be very useful to remember ,that jesus apostles ,they all disagree each other many times about the true message and teachings of jesus. and this is the reason why each apostle created their own christian religion ,their own version of it.. and through times , the churches roman catholic and orthodox began to add things ,that jesus never told ,never promoted. etc.

    for example jesus never promoted that womens should not be allowed to preach and teach .
    but in the catholic church is a men exclusive club ,the ones that controls the church. he never told that priest shoud not marry, and neither told anything about the need to confess your sins , in order to be forgiven by god.

    from wikipedia..


    Epistle to the Hebrews
    Book

    The Epistle to the Hebrews, or Letter to the Hebrews, or in the Greek manuscripts, simply To the Hebrews is one of the books of the New Testament. The text does not mention the name of its author, but was traditionally attributed to Paul the Apostle.  

    this was just reflections of paul the aposte, ( opinions ) about some of jesus teachings ,that they did not understood correctly. some apostles believed that in order to be listened by god ,you need to auto torture yourself ,to earn god blessings. because after all jesus allowed to be arrested no? and crucified?  Jesus had 12 apostles and they all argued each other all the time about jesus teachings or even if he was GOD or only the son of God. but jesus told it , he was GOD. he told.
    who seen the son , have seen my father. in reply to his apostles of "show us your father (god) "

    So this is why is much much better ,to stay with jesus teachings, and not with torah teachings, or apostles teachings.   jesus teachings in the bible are the anecdotes and stories ,that his disciples told ,they remembered jesus doing and saying.

    in my opinion, the apostle who understood better jesus teachings was john, and the bible suggest it several times. he was closer to jesus ,than all others apostles. the other chapters in the new testament , better to read them as references, the opinions of what his apostles believed jesus was teachings. there was a major difficulty in understanding jesus claims to be his own father..  lol1

    about jesus weird teachings..  

    here is an example of why you can't always literary take everything Jesus told , in a literal way ,
    because he spoke at times in symbolical representative ways and you need to read the entire chapter first to understand , what was the context ..so you don't quote jesus (out of context) and understand
    clearly his line , what was jesus really thinking.  

    Jesus told " i am the bread of life , who ever comes to me will not hunger."

    does that means jesus can be eaten? No

    Is jesus promoting cannibalism here?  john  6:56


    Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.”


    what was jesus really speaking?

    he was speaking about the TRUTH.   Wink

    when you eat something , that something becomes part of you , right?
    and live inside of you and feed your body . you drink water ,then water becomes part
    of you , one with you ,and it is spread in your entire body right?  The food you eat ,and your body becomes one.   Wink

    so jesus was speaking about the truth ,  to embrace his teachings and become one with them ,as you do with the food. that becomes a very important part of your life and that you eat and becomes part of your body.   AND if that if you become one ,with jesus the truth , with jesus teachings, then you will never perish , never die and never hunger , never get sick by any covid19 or any other illness, and do also the miracles the bibles says he did ,  because just like jesus will become one with the creator.

    there was no way the apostles , 2,000 years ago , could understand such concepts . of becoming one with the creator.. that was far too ahead of the rational thinking of the time ,today thanks to new age books and thousands of books on spirituality , but also budism teachings ,is a lot more easier to see what was jesus really about thinking. becoming one with God..  budist call this one with the nothingness.  or with the nature . etc etc.

    another example of jesus speaking in symbolical ways..

    how he predicted his own ressurection.

    lets see..

    what was jesus speaking here?


    John 2:19
    …18On account of this, the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?” 19Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.” 20“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?”… Shocked


    jesus was speaking about his body..  
    that when he ressurect the 3rd day , people will believe in his authority , and will truly believe he was God. but told it to them ,in a symbolical way , likely because jews did not believed in him anyway , and only told it that way for his apostles to take notes of it.  means jesus not always explained everything in easy ways and wanted to leave some parts in mystery ,for those that he knew will not understand no matter what , because they were completely in their minds to him, so he left some teachings hidden in riddles ,for the fun of it , so people later investigate , discover it later by themselves ,what was jesus really speaking about.

    one of the most famous riddles , jesus spoke was his second return.. when it will happen ,and the connection between father ,son and spirit being one. new age ideologies believe he was speaking about mind ,body and soul.  what constitute a human being.    


    In summary not always you can take in a literal way jesus teachings..
    because he spoke at times in symbolical way , not in a literal one  and he spoke that way mostly
    in presence of disbelievers that he knew , no matter what will not believe in him .

    so it does not make any sense.. that jesus will speak so much about a God of inconditional love ,
    to later say ,that in order to "forgive humanity" for their sins , it is necessary to sacrifice a human being and punish him " to save humanity".  does humanity looks "saved" to you today by jesus?   No the world looks worse today ,than in world war 2. but not as bad as it was 2,000 years ago ,in jesus times , that people crucified all the time for nothing and children killed in the thousands by the sword by the roman emperors if ordered or people throw to the lions for entertainment.  No

    ok lets see a good one..  related to this pandemic.



    For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.


    lets connect the dots..

    jesus spoke a million , a trillion of times plus one , of the need to have faith.. correct?
    that without faith there will be nothing given , that by your faith you will be saved.

    Mark 5:34
    Daughter,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction.”

    Jesus did not told , it was me who did it.. but instead , your faith who did it. see the difference?
    nothing symbolic or mysterious here , just common talk to a girl ,who was sick and got healed by her faith.

    this is an important , teaching of jesus.. the teaching of faith , faith in who? faith in GOD. and not faith in vaccines or faith in pharma industry and not faith in the corrupt man , but faith in GOD.
    Science and medicines do have a place , in helping people , but when your authorities , demands from you ,to resign your faith ,your religion , and that the only way you can be saved is by governments /pharma industry experimental vaccines, then this is wrong at so many levels.
    that the government is literary using fear , which is the opposite of faith ,to force people ,to replace their religion ,their God , by blind trust in their authorities in this world.   No

    finally , another example , of jesus teachings , but told in a symbolical way , so that those who
    don't believe in him ,will not understand, but those who do a research , will have a way to later figure out ,what he really mean.

    This next jesus teachings ,here comes a mystery , that jesus reveal to his apostles in private about humanity and life.  one of the most important teachings that jesus told. How can your mind ,your emotions and belief over rule over the outside world.   Shocked  

    mark 7:5
    5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Jesus, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”



    Jesus : Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16If[f] anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”



    who have ears to hear , isn't that interesting , he was speaking there a big truth , and it can be understood better if you take the context ,which was jesus speaking..
    every knows or at least science authorities tells you ,that is important to wash your hands , because dirty hands can contain microbes ,parasites ,or even viruses ,that cause illness right?

    wrong .. according to jesus , is not what comes from outside , what can damage you, but instead
    what comes from inside instead .. is the other way. jesus spoke in a symbolical but very illustrative way to those that did not believed in him.. but later explained in private his apostles what he really mean by that.

    so jesus defying science eh? how nice is that ?  lol1
    he will be called today an anti vaxxer too.. if he was around..   Laughing

    lets see..


    17When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, [g]thus purifying all foods?” 20And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

    BEcause the context , of the question to jesus , was about Human HEALTH.
    that it was not healthy to eat with dirty hands right? this is what they claimed , agreed?
    this is what science teach you today , correct? that you need to wash hands , to avoid parasites
    and microbes and viruses bla bla bla..

    but according to jesus , not is not your dirty hands , or whatever thing that comes from the outside,
    like viruses, like bacteria like poison ,like covid19 ,what damage or harm a man, instead what can
    can really harm you ..

    is what comes from the inside, from your heart and your mind , what you believe..


    your limiting thoughts , your negative emotions , your erroneous believes, your fears , your hate ,
    all this things, this is what harms your health and can ruin your life , what comes from your inside ,is what decide the outcome of your experiences. your believes and your emotions ,will rule the outcome of your experiences.


    Naturally this is like witchcraft ,voodoo ,sorcery in the ears of any man made institutions , weather is political ,scientific or religions ,even if they are christian religions , they will not dare to go there.
    because that will make their institutions obsolete ,pharma industry obsolete , if people start discovering their God given abilities ,hidden in their own self , for self healing abilities , by just developing their own system of inmunity defenses ,eating healthy non gmo food ,exercises and and having a healthy and positive mind and emotions  and positive thinking and by believing in a GOD that is there to help in case you alone can't handle it.  


    the day humans can control their health and their lives and become totally independent from the outside. They will be independent , and healthy and this is not what bad governments institutions , or BAD  pharma industry wants Shocked  

    but if there was any doubts ,of how jesus really believed in the power of your thoughts , emotions and belief ..



    Matthew 17:19

    Then Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment. 19Afterward the disciples came to Jesus privately and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20“Because you have so little faith,” He answered. “For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”…


    do that need at all any interpretation? that was clear as water ,that jesus tells everyone,
    you just need a very strong faith , and it will be done. but faith don't grow in trees, people need
    to develop it , not by hiding in caves , but practicing it , day by day.

    what christianity teach , is that the inside , rules over what is outside , your good or bad thoughts ,your good or bad feelings and your good or bad emotions ,your fear or love will influence the external world. And your strong believes ,your faith can do anything , including the impossible. this is what jesus believed.




    and the world , we live today their institutions ,are telling society ,the opposite ,of what christianity teach , that your life ,your health will depend of what you do in the outside. that will depend on which vaccine shots you take and how many ,and if you wear mask.  Rolling Eyes  when humanity have been living for thousands of years without face mask ,without vaccines , today apparently no longer that is possible.  Rolling Eyes or at least our institutions wants us to believe.


    i want to clarify that you don't need to be "inspired" by any GOD to understand jesus teachings,,
    all that you need to do is use your common sense , see the times a teaching is repeat in many different ways , again and again ,and read about alternative ideologies too ,new age spiritual book and teachings , because many major life coaching spiritual authors ,have understood better than the vatican ,christianity and other similar ideologies.

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