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    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    SOC
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    Post  SOC Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:18 am

    The only part of that article that claims the MiG-41 is to be based on the MiG-31 is the title. While a big, Mach 4 interceptor would actually be a good idea for northern Russia, able to cross distances quickly to make an intercept and theoretically letting you have a smaller fleet, and thereby saving some cash, the idea that you can just modify a MiG-31 to get a Mach 4 interceptor makes very little sense.
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    Post  TR1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:08 am

    Just paint it Red, it will probably go Mach 3.4 from that alone.

    A nice spoiler on the back (to make sure it doesn't go too high) and Mach 3.6 is doable.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am

    While a big, Mach 4 interceptor would actually be a good idea for northern Russia, able to cross distances quickly to make an intercept and theoretically letting you have a smaller fleet, and thereby saving some cash, the idea that you can just modify a MiG-31 to get a Mach 4 interceptor makes very little sense.

    The thing is that anything that replaces the Mig-31 will likely have very similar features... a huge radar... two huge engines at the rear... possibly a large delta wing more like the PAK FA wing perhaps with internal weapons and a change in sweep to make the higher speed sustainable.

    Personally I think the main changes will be a modest size increase, internal weapons carriage, whopping great big AESA in the nose and possibly large long band AESA in the wing leading edge for finding stealth planes. Lower profile cockpit for at least two crew with simplified wing layout... no need for horizontal tails or lots of manouvering surfaces for such a high speed aircraft... and finally a variable cycle engine times two that operates as a high bypass turbofan for takeoff and landing and as a ramjet or scramjet in flight.

    the biggest necessary change is the engines and modest refinement of the general aerodynamics.

    the use of IRST and nose mounted AESA radar and wing mounted long wave radar mean stealth is a little redundant but some radar signature reduction would be useful as long as it doesn't make the aircraft too expensive to make or maintain.

    A nice spoiler on the back

    Don't forget the racing stripe and the fluffy dice hanging from the mirror...

    Seriously though a Mach 4.3 aircraft is a plane that approaches 5,000km/h... 2 hours to travel 10,000km... I wonder if they will make a business jet version....   Twisted Evil

    I wonder what sort of range boost a RVV-BD would get from a Mach 4.2 launch from 30,000m...
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:10 am

    SOC wrote:The only part of that article that claims the MiG-41 is to be based on the MiG-31 is the title.  While a big, Mach 4 interceptor would actually be a good idea for northern Russia, able to cross distances quickly to make an intercept and theoretically letting you have a smaller fleet, and thereby saving some cash, the idea that you can just modify a MiG-31 to get a Mach 4 interceptor makes very little sense.

    I think by "based on Mig-31" they may mean based on design experiences and flight data by Mig-25 & Mig-31.
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    Post  collegeboy16 Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:58 pm

    Hehe put some S-500 on Mig-41 and you have a very,very capable ASAT capability. heck, this thing could be adapted for sub-orbital flight with more scramjetty engine- we can take the fight to those alien mofos that sit back and mock us from edge of atmosphere.  Twisted Evil 
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:04 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:Hehe put some S-500 on Mig-41 and you have a very,very capable ASAT capability. heck, this thing could be adapted for sub-orbital flight with more scramjetty engine- we can take the fight to those alien mofos that sit back and mock us from edge of atmosphere.  Twisted Evil 

    Interesting idea, and because it would be on a Mig-41 flying Mach 4.3 the missile could be made lighter because it would need less propellant.
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    Post  George1 Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:56 pm

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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:58 am

    There was a plan to use the Mig-31 with a large belly mounted rocket to launch micro satellites.

    A Mach 4 aircraft with a large delta wing shape that hopefully allows higher flight altitudes would be even more efficient... you could rent it out to universities around the world... strip all the unnecessary stuff... with most vehicles the most energy is expended at the start of launch because it is mostly propellent and getting all that weight moving burns a lot of energy.

    Watch most heavy rockets launch satellites and they start off accelerating fairly slowly, but over time they slowly get faster and faster, but they are burning fuel at an enormous rate to do this.

    Launching the rocket from near the top of the atmosphere and already very supersonic should make the system much better as a launcher... meaning heavier payloads can be delivered, but also light payloads could be launched to higher orbits.

    Launching closer to the equator means the spin of the earth gives more speed as well.


    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 11 075010

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 11 071010
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:46 am

    GarryB wrote:There was a plan to use the Mig-31 with a large belly mounted rocket to launch micro satellites.

    A Mach 4 aircraft with a large delta wing shape that hopefully allows higher flight altitudes would be even more efficient... you could rent it out to universities around the world... strip all the unnecessary stuff... with most vehicles the most energy is expended at the start of launch because it is mostly propellent and getting all that weight moving burns a lot of energy.

    Watch most heavy rockets launch satellites and they start off accelerating fairly slowly, but over time they slowly get faster and faster, but they are burning fuel at an enormous rate to do this.

    Launching the rocket from near the top of the atmosphere and already very supersonic should make the system much better as a launcher... meaning heavier payloads can be delivered, but also light payloads could be launched to higher orbits.

    Launching closer to the equator means the spin of the earth gives more speed as well.


    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 11 075010

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 11 071010

    ...What would you say if the Mig-41 had a built in nuclear carrying capability? Flying that high at that speed could greatly increase the capabilities of nuclear tipped cruise missiles but of course they would need to be updated to handle such speeds, and not considering nuclear treaties, perhaps hypersonic cruise missiles? I suspect the Mig-41 will be a fairly large aircraft at least as big as the Su-34, their will be room for many kinds of armaments (except ground attack missiles), perhaps they could develop an aerial launched lighter with less propellant versions of Iskander-M?
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    Post  Firebird Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:45 pm

    Mach 4.3?

    This is rather a surprise.. and a good one too. I wonder how far the tech used in developing other projects.

    Mach 4.3 is developing a fair bit of heat, and not that far off hypersonic. I wonder if this, with missile development will allow a full hypersonic plane to be developed as a next stage.

    I also wonder how this tech could be converted to other planes such as advanced passenger jets, a faster pak-da variant etc.

    I think a lot of this Mig 31 replacement revolves around the massively powerful new engines and ligghter airframe than the Mig31. But it will be very intersting to see what has been done with airframe heat control materials etc.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:52 pm

    ...What would you say if the Mig-41 had a built in nuclear carrying capability? Flying that high at that speed could greatly increase the capabilities of nuclear tipped cruise missiles but of course they would need to be updated to handle such speeds, and not considering nuclear treaties, perhaps hypersonic cruise missiles? I suspect the Mig-41 will be a fairly large aircraft at least as big as the Su-34, their will be room for many kinds of armaments (except ground attack missiles), perhaps they could develop an aerial launched lighter with less propellant versions of Iskander-M?

    Nuclear weapons are effective because they are so powerful, but because they are so powerful no one will want to use them first... so they are at the same time very effective but also unusable.

    The next best thing to powerful is precise. With modern guidance and controls a modern high speed missile can be very very accurate, which can make it as effective as a nuke but usable... unlike a nuke.

    If you look at the progression of air power... in WWII if you wanted to blow up a whole factory you sent enormous numbers of bombers all full of bombs... the numbers to hit several factories in a single city was comparable to the number you would sent to destroy the city.

    Even after several attacks the damage to the factory in question might be ineffectual and more attacks needed.

    As technology improves however the number of aircraft needed greatly reduces with more accurate navigation, more powerful bombs, aircraft able to carry much heavier payloads, etc etc.

    Russia is currently at the point where a few dozen aircraft where a few have guided bombs and the rest are there to hide and protect the others can get the job done.. most likely on the first time.

    A few well timed cruise missile attacks could also have the same effect.

    The future of air power will be when a single PAK DA can fly through at medium altitude... destroy several targets with individual guided bombs and leave the area without ever being detected or confronted.

    Using nukes on the other hand makes it all unusable and therefore not much use.

    A Mach 4 capable large aircraft would be rather interesting as a support aircraft for fighters... a large aircraft with jamming equipment able to fly ahead of a strike package and jam and attack ground and aerial threats out to long range would be an interesting asset... it could pass back live data regarding enemy radar positions and aircraft for the strike package to avoid and perhaps carry a range of self defence missiles based on Morfei to defeat the large heavy long range SAMs that would be launched to engage it.

    There was a bomber version of the Mig-25 (Mig-25RB), and a similar proposed Mig-31 model able to carry specially fused 1,500kg bombs that could be carried and released from the belly (x4) and the wing points (x2) at mach 2+ speeds.

    Imagine a mach 4 bomber/jammer/recon aircraft... and the smaller lighter unmanned recon drone based on it...  Twisted Evil 


    I think a lot of this Mig 31 replacement revolves around the massively powerful new engines and ligghter airframe than the Mig31. But it will be very intersting to see what has been done with airframe heat control materials etc.

    The old Mig-25 was heavy... largely nickle steel to maintain strength when very hot.

    A new aircraft with the hot spots made of lighter materials like titanium or even ceramics would be very interesting and engine power is not actually that critical.

    The Mig-25 could fly at mach 2.83 and only had 11 ton thrust engines... the Su-27SK has a loaded weight of about 23 tons and two 12.5 ton engines, while the Mig-25 has a loaded weight of about 36 tons and two 11 ton thrust engines... which one should be faster?

    What is not obvious is that the engines are different... the Flanker has fuel efficient turbofans while the Foxbat has turbojets.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:22 am

    Just strap a big ol' rocket on the bag, will hit Mach 4 easy.

    Was just about to make this silly post, and then I noticed GarryB's post that there really was such a plan at one stage Smile
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    Post  GarryB Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:25 am

    As mentioned above fitting a full sized S-500 to the belly of the Mig-41... note that is a hint too... the Su-34 is the replacement for the Su-24, while the Il-476 replaces the Il-76, it is common for replacement aircraft to share something in the designation...

    Anyway, fitting an S-500 to a plane that can fly to perhaps 30km altitude and mach 4 speed would greatly increase the max altitude performance of the S-500 in terms of anti satellite ability.

    Imagine replacing a solid rocket booster with a scramjet motor and large fuel tank to allow enormous horizontal acceleration before vectoring up at enormous speeds...
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:46 am

    Hey Garry, it looks like they might use hypersonic vehicles attached to hardpoint pylons of interceptors to intercept what looks like a theater range ballistic missile. They show a cgi animation of such a scenario at the 8:10 mark of the video:

    http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.html?vid=564068
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:10 am

    http://russianplanes.net/images/to134000/133974.jpg

    Just a nice photo.
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    Post  Viktor Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:06 am

    New MiG-31BM pair delivered to Tver region


    Upgraded MiG-31BM have taken up on combat duty in WEST

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    Post  TR1 Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:24 am

    Apparently there are 58 operational MiG-31BM (and BSM) to date, including several experimental airframes.

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    Post  Viktor Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:46 am

    TR1 wrote:Apparently there are 58 operational MiG-31BM (and BSM) to date, including several experimental airframes.


    Remember reading that 60 MIG-31 will be modernized by 2020.

    Russia to modernize 60 MiG-31 interceptors by 2020

    Well its first half of 2014 and there are already 60 modernized MIG-31 and by 2020 we might see 150-200 modernized MIG-31 in service thumbsup 
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    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:58 pm

    Wasn't there a report that they were planning to upgrade 100 by 2020 or am I confusing it with the Tu-22M3M upgrade?
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    Post  George1 Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:08 pm

    A monument to MiG-31 aircraft will be erected in Perm
    Russian Aviaton » Friday April 25, 2014 17:21 MSK

    The Perm-based engine-building enterprises are preparing a present for their employees, citizens and guests of the city dedicated to the 80th anniversary of Perm Engine Company – in early June a new monument located in the historic center of Perm will be opened. On April 18th the Social Council on Toponymy of the Perm City Duma officially approved the erection of “MiG during takeoff” monument, press-service of Perm Engine Company reports.

    The “MiG during takeoff” monument will be erected in public garden located at Chkalov Street in the central part of a parkway, where busts of the Perm-based enterprise’s designers and directors are located. The monument comprises the real MiG-31 super-sonic interceptor installed on special pylons. Visually the enterprise and the memorial will be connected with a runway – a light strip created using garden lamps, the press-service explained.

    "This MiG-31 is the real combat aircraft having its own history. It was manufactured in 1985 and until 1998 it was being operated in Tyumen Region at Komsomolski airfield. Later it was transferred to Perm-based Sokol military unit. Its total flight time is 1322 hours; it has performed 1452 landings. In 2013 the MiG was taken out of service and handed over to Perm Region in accordance with an order of Russian Ministry of Defense. At present the monument’s footing is being constructed. The “MiG during takeoff” monument is being constructed in order to make young citizens of Perm proud of achievements of Perm engine builders. The D-30F6 engines powering MiG-31 interceptor (the world’s fastest aircraft having the highest ceiling) were developed by Perm-based MKB (present Aviadvigatel) and manufactured by Motorostroitel (present Perm Engine Company)", - said in the statement of press-service.

    MiG-31 aircraft has set 29 world records; some of them are still unbeaten (for example, in 1977 test-pilot Alexander Fedotov set the absolute flight altitude record while piloting MiG-31 - 37 650 meters). According to Valery Menitski, test-pilot, Hero of Soviet Union, «neither USA nor EU has such aircraft. This vehicle has a tremendous potential». As for the city, it will get not only the new sight but also the new recreation area: a program for landscaping the public garden includes upgrading the avenue of limes, planting additional plants, installing new lamps and benches and construction of parking bays.

    Regional and city authorities are supporting the initiative of the Perm-based enterprise and assist it in solving any problems related to erection of the monument. According to a public opinion poll carried out in Sverdlovsk district of the city, 80% of citizens support the erection of this monument, the press-service explained.
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    Post  Viktor Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:45 pm

    TR1 wrote:Apparently there are 58 operational MiG-31BM (and BSM) to date, including several experimental airframes.

    We have noticed that the number of modernized MiG-31 is much higher than it is supposed to be judging by the contracts signed about MiG-31 modernization and that is what is

    wrong with this article when it claimes that only 60 MiG-31 will be modernized by 2018. But never mind that the good thing is that MiG-31 modernization is continuing on a unprecedented

    level. We know that:

    - much more MiG-31 will be modernized by 2020 than stated 60 (in fact that number will be overrun by the end of this year alone)

    - afterwards we found about the decision to put hundereds more MiG-31 in service and modernize them (post °226)

    - we found out that Russia intends to develope Mach 4.3 MiG-31 successor

    and now we know that radicaly new modernization which will greatly enchant MiG-31 is in the pipeline and that modernization will apply to all existing MiGs and the ones that will

    enter service in the comming years:

    MiG, Aviadvigatel Confirm MiG-31 Development

    MiG-31 is getting much needed attention and love for its worth is unprecedented to Russia


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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:49 am

    Notice in that link it is the Aerospace Defence forces that seem to be driving Mig-31 development. The VVS seems happy with the Su-35 and PAK FA programmes and are neglecting the 31 a bit I think.

    Hense it will be... in my opinion, the VKKO that drive the MiG-31 upgrade and replacement programme... and rightly so... she was always a PVO bird.

    This seems to me to mirror the situation with CAS aircraft with the existing aircraft upgrade Su-25SM getting a further upgrade... to be followed by a new replacement probably in 10 years or so time.
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:54 am

    GarryB wrote:Wasn't there a report that they were planning to upgrade 100 by 2020 or am I confusing it with the Tu-22M3M upgrade?

    The plan was for 9 squadrons (about 100 aircraft). But that was 2-3 years ago, looks like they're planning a larger number now
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    Post  Viktor Fri May 30, 2014 9:57 pm

    2 more MiG-31BM delivered to Russia Air Force  thumbsup 

    MiG-31BM have taken up on combat duty in WEST
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    Post  mack8 Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:25 am

    3 new MiG-31BSM spotted:
    http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=45391&page=82

    Question is, how many have been converted so far, prototypes are borts 25 and 26, so there are at least 3 more new conversions. Seems it's either 5 or 7 completed so far.

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