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83 posters

    The T-80s future in the Russian Army

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:06 pm

    That tank is used mostly as fire support for infantry, with indirect fire against enemy trenches and fortifications.
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:59 pm

    Respect to the previous model posted on Oct.13  this seem to allow turret rotation.
    Now, it could be somewhat folded once they get in enemy contact or they have to stay like so?
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:49 pm

    T-80BVM model 2023

    With the onboard Volnorez portable drone jammer system on board, the upgraded tank could be one of those game changers we always hear about. The specs on the EW system alone, up to 1 km omni-directional, wide-band jamming seem impressive.

    Feature Overview

    * Volnorez Drone Jaming EW System (solved the APS harming infantry problem, covering mainly drones, for IR targeting,  dazzlers and smoke as well as early detection are still superior to APS)

    * 1PN96MT thermal imaging sights (superior to Sosna-U)

    * Reverse now exceeds 20 km/h (better than 11km/hr on previous model)

    * Relikt explosive reactive armor (helps protect against ATGMs and RPGs)

    * More sophisticated targeting system


    For me the most interesting element is the transmission modifications made, to achieve such a fast Reverse speed

    As well as Volnorez EW blocker, I believe soft kill APS is superior to hard kill, as you need infantry near the tank when conducting any advance or urban operations and any projectiles prevent the use of infantry

    In very rare occasions would hardkill APS be needed, like if for some reason, the tanks are without infantry in an exposed area, in which case you are dead anyway

    Explosive reactive armor is also dangerous for infantry, but this was only a problem for early Kontakt series, the new T80BVM has Relikt, so it's not as big an issue

    And so I would say the next big improvement, would be installation of MMW radar, for early detection of incoming projectiles, that can alert the crew to deploy smoke and IR countermeasures, as well as dazzlers like an improved shtora

    Once a crew is alerted to the fact that they are being targeted, the commander can slew the turret to the threat

    Maybe T14 would just be better in terms of integrating this technology onto the platform

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 16, 2023 2:08 am

    The problem with MMW radar is that it can be detected and triangulated.

    Some other technology needs to be used like LIDAR.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:29 pm

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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:29 pm

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:35 pm

    It's official. The t-72 has now been turned into a brick factory Laughing

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:00 pm

    Holly shit 😱🤣🤣
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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:35 pm

    The t-72 has now been turned into a brick factory
    Yeah. I put the pics in the wrong thread. Embarassed
    Maybe GarryB can move them to the right one.

    Holly shit
    Technician: How many ERA bricks do you want on your tank?
    Commander: YES!

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:42 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Yeah. I put the pics in the wrong thread. Embarassed

    No worries mate it's just anothe brick layer Laughing
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    Post  galicije83 Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:52 pm

    Its a T90M...not T72...
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:24 pm

    Mir wrote:It's official. The t-72 has now been turned into a brick factory Laughing

    Look at the positives. When the T-72B3M 2023 models come out as lego kits they will be very realistic. Laughing

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    Post  Hole Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:17 pm

    LEGO will sell the ERA bricks as extra and make a lot of money. lol1

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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:09 pm

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    Jammer tank Very Happy

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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:21 am

    Drones are very effective, but mobile gun platforms are necessary, so a combination of countermeasures will be applied to keep tanks useful and operational and in fact coordination of tanks using drones to spot ahead actually makes tanks more effective and more powerful.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:23 am

    Pretty soon those FPV will be targeted by active protection or specialized gun turrets. It is just a matter of time.

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    Post  Isos Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:31 am

    ALAMO wrote:Pretty soon those FPV will be targeted by active protection or specialized gun turrets. It is just a matter of time.

    There is already a version of lancet that explode 5-10m away with lidar sensor.

    It will be very hard to counter those drones.

    Jamming isn't a final solution because some models have image recognition. The operator will take it to the arear and will go on the target without radio control, gps or anything.
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:40 am

    Lancet is - relatively of course - expensive loitering ammunition.
    It is nothing new, has been there for a while.
    The difference is that it is an inexpensive sensor that makes it explode from a distance allowing proper activation of the HEAT warhead.
    What is dangerous, are dozens of inexpensive toys that can deliver precise punches, because those are so widely spread. You can rip off every subsystem that is not heavily armored. Optics, communication ...
    With PG-7 round taped under belly, it can be used for attacking weak spots, ammunition magazine, hydraulics, power units etc.
    You can't "explode" ammunition at any distance counting on it will be effective.
    5-10 m is not too far for APS, while you can't expect a decent 2-3 kg warhead result from that distance.
    There is a precise physical distance for any HEAT warhead combined with its diameter, so you can't just detonate it at a random distance and consider it effective. It won't properly accumulate, or will be already disrupted.

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    Post  Hole Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:00 pm

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    T-80BVM with turret roof cage armor + Anti-Drone jammer on top.

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    Post  Hole Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:53 pm

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:44 am

    Jamming isn't a final solution because some models have image recognition.

    Every drone is different so no single defence system is going to work against all drones, but the Russians are implimenting all sorts of systems and equipment from tank mounted jammers and cages and extra spaced layers of ERA, but also likely optical jammers and of course smoke and they have not finished yet.

    There will likely also be EMP directed energy weapons (not lasers) and other systems to deal with drone attacks too, and of course an APS system that can detect an ATGM or tank fired kinetic round should also be able to detect a small drone and "intercept" that as well.

    The fight against drones will be ongoing and Russia is getting lots of real experience on both sides of the drone war and appear to be rather good at using them too.

    The most dangerous is going to be an AI controlled drone swarm that independently finds and kills enemy soldiers and destroys enemy vehicles and positions... and Russia seems to be getting rather closer to that than any Hollywood movie has managed.

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:59 am

    Isos wrote:
    There is already a version of lancet that explode 5-10m away with lidar sensor.

    It will be very hard to counter those drones.

    Jamming isn't a final solution because some models have image recognition. The operator will take it to the arear and will go on the target without radio control, gps or anything.

    Actually removing the man out of the loop is more than enough. Most FPVs have miniscule warheads that need very precise delivery to the weakspots of heavily armored targets to guarantee a kill. It takes considerable skill to maneuver about at an advantageous angle to the target and weave through the anti-drone mesh cages, a capability that doesn't come preloaded on even the most sophisticated anti-ship missiles, mind you, nevermind drones that are designed to be made as cheaply as possible.

    Hole wrote:
    T-80BVM with turret roof cage armor + Anti-Drone jammer on top.
    This plus some very comprehensive ERA plating. These must be very heavy vehicles by now and yet they still retain a lot of their original mobility. The NATO equivalent MBT decked out in the same gear would struggle to even move on their own power through hellish mudpit that is Ukraine.

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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:03 pm

    Tanks already have small caliber guns mounted on the turret.   Why not turn these into automated anti-drone units?    The various videos of Lancets hitting Ukr
    tanks tell me that a turret mounted gun could take them out.   They do not move all that fast.   FPV drones are not any faster.


    Last edited by kvs on Sun Jan 28, 2024 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed silly typo)
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:23 am

    Usually the drones are not visible till they are less than 50m away, they normally bob and weave at low altitude out of line of sight of the target till they get close and pop up and dive on the target... they don't need to see the target all the way because the other drone flying much higher that probably found the target in the first place is hovering overhead so the guy with the suicide drone knows exactly where the target is and what cover and protection it has around it so they can fly to gaps in trees and bushes and around any nets set out.

    AI controlled drones are going to be far more effective than manually controlled drones because often there is lag in the video display which makes fine manouvering to hit a moving target not so easy... like landing on an aircraft carrier... not easy at all.

    Vehicles have APS systems entering service to protect them from missiles and rockets, it just makes sense to extend that protection to include protection from drones as well. I would say a single gun would not be fast enough to be slewed in the direction of an incoming drone which could come from anywhere, so some sort of weapon that has a shotgun like effect that is ready to fire but can be angled slightly before firing for a better hit and wider range of fire including directly up to shoot grenades and light bombs released from above. Relatively light pellet loads would shatter propellers and components to make most drones crash before getting a hit but from directly above you might want heavier buckshot loads to detonate bombs and grenades and larger warheads.

    Would love to work at such problems... lots of fun with shotguns and drones and APS systems.

    Remember an APS system is already designed to operate with no warning from any angle and to solidly hit fast moving targets hard enough to either set them off or make them crash.

    Some sort of directed EMP Weapon might also play a role and of course a dazzling laser or even a laser powerful enough to actually do physical damage might be interesting too... just blinding the optics of the drone and jamming its GPS signals could be part of the solution too, but I think a combination of all of these and rather more will be needed anyway.

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:38 am

    Most of the drones we are talking about represent quite a serious threat because of being totally different type of a target.
    First, those are very small inn both size and reflection.
    Second, emit close to zero heat or EM, especially those that operate autonomously - which will be a standard very soon.
    Third, those are almost noiseless.
    Fourth, it operates at very low speed.

    All of that combined makes it an extremely hard target to detect, lock, and destroy.
    What's more, due it's low speed, it will be very difficult to separate them from other objects like birds etc.
    It won't be an easy nut to crack folks, that's for sure.

    The most serious attempt to make a tank with some serious AD was Slovakian Moderna, with one or two 20 mm Oerlikon cannons.

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