ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

The LA-class subs are old too, they need to replace them all. So is the entire Ohio fleet. Somehow I don't believe in those 80 nuclear submarines. Especially since the US is collapsing economically faster and faster. The surface fleet is aging at a very fast pace. So they also have a lot to do in the growing crisis and the collapse of the hegemony will be more and more difficult for them. The Virginia has nothing to even compare with the 885M. Borey A also currently has no competitor in the world. Columbia will be established in a few years, as will the new Chinese SSBN.

The worst thing is that the modernization of the 971 and 949A is slow. These ships could serve until 2040. Before they would build the right amounts of Laiky SSN.

It will be hard to compete with Russia's China. It's a much bigger economy and demographic. Demographically, China is almost 10 times the size of Russia. There's no way to compete with them. You won't get over it.

I wrote that in the best case, Russia will have 9 885/885M submarines in 2030, while all other submarines will have over 35 years of active service.
That is a lot and replacing those submarines is important. Therefore, the fleet of SSN/SSGN submarines is rapidly aging and replacement of those submarines is NECESSARY.

And what about the SSKs they are building too, the Kilos are better armed than many western SSNs, and are cheaper to make and operate and soon the Lada class will be even cheaper with half the manpower with the same or better fire power.

The US has an entire planet to bully, Russia just needs enough to protect itself and its interests... the US dragging Russia into an Arms race only makes sense if you print your own money and that is already coming apart...

The infrastructure in American cities is collapsing, but the US plans a budget of 842 billion dollars for the military.

You say that like it means anything.

The US fights corruption by trying to pump more money into the corrupt system than can be stolen, they could plan a budget of 1 trillion for all it matters, it just means all those military bases around the planet will suck more wealth and the very very rich owners of the US MIC will suck more wealth out of the US Taxpayer who will be told that there is no money for anything else... except if the banks need another bailout and then money will be found of course...

It is true that the "Ohio" submarines must be replaced, but certainly fewer "Columbia" submarines will be built than was the case with the "Ohio" submarines, i.e. 12 instead of 18. It is clear that the US prioritized SSN/SSGN submarines.

The US put most of their nuclear deterrent into their subs and have their navy as a high priority because the country is surrounded by two major oceans.

The fact that Kinzhal and Zircon would slaughter their surface fleet, they probably need as many subs as they can get.

The text says that the future aircraft will use turboprop engines, although the TV7-117 (mentioned by the Russian media) does not provide the desired characteristics. The Il-38 uses AI-20M engines, which have a maximum power of 4225 HP, while the most powerful variant of the TV7-117 turboprop engine does not exceed 3750 HP. This means that the Russians would have to build a smaller plane than the Il-38, whose maximum take-off weight is 66 to 68,000 kg.

The Il-114MP has an endurance of 10 hours which is pretty good so four 3,500hp engines is probably just fine, especially based on the Il-114 which as you point out is a smaller aircraft, but with a lengthened fuselage it can carry extra weight without massively increasing drag like a wider fuselage would do, and a bigger wing with four engines should make it a rather good modern platform.

A replacement for the Il-38 doesn't need to be as big, because it will likely operate with HALE or MALE drones, and if they want longer ranged platforms they could develop a modification of another type to replace the Tu-142... or they could convert the Tu-142 with all new avionics and systems and continue using them for quite some time... in 10 years time the Tu-95s will be replaced by PAK DAs so they could be converted too...

They could even use those huge engines for the Il-106 replacement for the An-22 and An-124 with lighter loads...

A transport would not need high speed performance that the Bears use in their roles, so some sort of sophisticated prop fan layout to increase thrust for operating at higher weights and at lower top speeds would be a good trade off for a transport aircraft.

Flight tests of the PD-14 engine have progressed much further than testing the TV7-117 on the ill-fated Il-112, so I think the best option for the Russians would be to simultaneously work on a "medium" size transport aircraft on the platform of which they would also get an ASW aircraft.

Transport planes are better when they are fat because it means larger internal loads are possible (I don't mean heavier when I say larger, I mean bulkier).

For an ASW aircraft internal volume is not critical... you can make them longer to fit more in... a smaller fuselage means less drag and therefore better speed at a lower throttle setting which is good for low speed cruising and endurance, which is as important as range for a hunter like an ASW aircraft.

The only "faster" variant is the construction of an anti-submarine aircraft, which is to use the platform of the Tu-204 aircraft.

Not faster because current Tu-204 production will likely go to Russian airlines to help replace western types, but just because they might use the Il-114 for an Il-38 replacement that does not mean they wont use the Tu-204 and its many variants to replace all the obsolete aircraft their military currently use like the Tu-134 and Tu-154M and of course the Il-20s and Yak-40s etc etc.

Garry, we are not small children and don't write to me about the Il-114 RC plane. That toy has a maximum weight of 23.5 tons and is a twin-engine airplane, which means that even a four-engine variant would not have enough engine thrust for an airplane with a maximum take-off weight of up to 50 tons.

They already made the Il-114MP, it was not accepted AFAIK because its range was too short but its endurance of 10 hours in the air on patrol which is ONE hour less than the Il-38 can currently manage with its 11 hour endurance, so the toy plane before modification is almost able to match the endurance of an aircraft three times heavier than it is at about 66 tons MTOW.

An enlarged Il-114... what ever they might decide to call it... with four rather more powerful upgraded engines should be able to blow the Il-38 out of the water in terms of endurance at the very least.

A power increase of maybe 750hp per engine would give it the same engine thrust the AI-20M engines of the Il-38 have at 4,250hp, which would mainly be used for takeoff... flying around at top speed is not something MPAs do very much because 500km per hour is good enough most of the time... the most powerful versions of the engines used by the Il-114 are 3,500hp, while the standard engines on the Il-114P are 2,750hp each.

I wrote to you that the 4 engines from the Il-114 aircraft (the maximum permissible take-off weight is 23.5 tons) do not have enough thrust to propel an aircraft weighing up to 50 tons, let alone a significantly more serious platform like the Il-38 which has over 66 tons.

they have said their new MPA aircraft to replace the Il-38 will have four engines... they did not specify which four engines they would be and it has already been mentioned that new 4-5,000hp engines are being developed too... not to mention if they were really pushed they have the engines of the Bear at 15,000 hp they could use if they wanted too.

Issues like the length of the blades being a problem could be solved... the 4m blades are needed for very high subsonic flight speeds so a new propeller with 8 blades on the front fan and perhaps 10 blades on the rear fan could absorb all that engine power and provide enormous thrust at lower flight speeds where needed.

They have not released very much concrete information which leaves things open to speculation... suffice to say they are talking about a replacement for the Il-38 May... for which we should be thankful... it was a good aircraft but in need of replacing now.

All those other complaints about lack of submarines, so what... you are upset... big deal.

Russia needs surface ships that can protect their merchant fleet and the fleets of their allies to ensure uninterrupted trade with Russia.

Submarines are not that useful in that regard... they are most effective when they are not seen and most effective when sinking ships... which is an act of war which makes their use as limiting as the use of nuclear weapons.

You should have them but hope to never have to use them.

In comparison even a corvette can fire a burst of 30mm cannon shells into the water to scare away western ships up to no good.

What western frigate or destroyer will mess with a Russian Corvette that might be carrying Onyx or Zircon...

The Russians have already lost the Il-112, which means that a potential four-engine turboprop aircraft, which must have SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful engines than the twin-engine Il-112, is out of sight.

The Il-112V is moving forward and has not been cancelled because it is required to replace several obsolete Antonovs in Russian military service.

The Russians are getting near to completing development of a 5,000hp turboprop engine and they also make the engines for Bear bombers that are 15,000hp.

They also had the NK-93 ducted fan design that Kuznetsov was supposed to be reviving in 2014, and a range of other engine types based on PD types could be used as the core of a turboprop engine or propfan variant.

IIRC one of the reasons for restarting Il-114 production (and in Russia itself not Uzbekistan), was exactly to have a platform some government and military variants, including naval use

The Il-114 and Il-112 will replace quite a few obsolete light aircraft, but they wont replace everything with them either.

I rather suspect they will replace the larger types like the Il-20/22 and Tu-154M and Yak-40 types with heavier aircraft too... they now have Tu-204 and variants in mass production filling gaps in airlines in Russia to replace western types, but once they are finished and the Super Jet and MS-21s are in full production and can replace the Tupolevs it is rather likely they might sell them to the Russian military to convert to military types and also start work on the Tu-330 transport plane based on those aircraft. A 35 ton payload capacity aircraft would be rather useful in Russia and around the world...

Most of the issues centre around getting the engines ready and mature for use in aircraft and a brand new modern engine and make an old airframe almost as good as a brand new design.

They even managed to improve the Yak-40s performance by using a composite wing.... as composites become more affordable and accessible things are going to improve even for older aircraft types.

The Russians have a lot of old planes they are in the process of retiring and they have some new planes... most of which their problems revolve around getting new engines for, which is no real surprise... any tiny country can design a reasonable aircraft, but far fewer countries make decent engines.

The engines are taking the longest but once they are ready for serial production getting the aircraft right is the simple part of the equation.

For some aircraft categories an existing new type is being developed... the Il-112 and Il-114 and Baikal and the Let types they are making fill most of the smaller aircraft.

The Russian Navy has announced a new aircraft without saying anything else really, that will have four turboprop engines to replace the May.

We assume it will be an enlarged Il-114 but have the navy actually mentioned that?

Is there another Il-38 sized aircraft it might be?

There was talk about putting D-27 engines with propfans as used by the An-70 on the A-42... two of them, which was supposed to extend flight range from just less than the Il-38s flight range of about 6,500km to just over 9,500km, but obviously were they expecting to use Ukrainian engines or are they making them in Russia... who knows.

Very simply we are all guessing, but LSOS, your reasons for rejecting our guesses don't make sense... Russia and most aircraft making countries have histories of taking aircraft designs and reshaping them with more engines to change their performance category with the minimum of fuss and time and effort...

It can often turn an OK aircraft into an excellent one...

In fact even going the other way can make a huge difference too... the Il-96 is a good aircraft and if PD-35s can be reliable and efficient and two can be used to replace the existing four engines then such a change could transform the aircraft into something that is much better in terms of maintenance and operational costs and performance.

The point is that Russia needs to update its naval aircraft... it will be showing us new helicopters shortly I suspect for their new helicopter carriers, and I hope they adapt the Mi-38 to a naval role the same way they adapted the Mi-8 to create the Mi-14.

They will need manned aircraft to work with drones at least to start with but Drones are good for long range search and monitoring roles.... a single Tu-142 could operate with 6 to 8 HALEs to cover rather more territory than any manned aircraft could cover for the price, and do so more efficiently... they could even operate airships to relay things to subs where the airships could deploy antenna cables 5km long that simply hang down straight forming an antenna for Ultra low frequency communications to talk to deeply submerged subs or even ocean floor facilities with nuclear batteries that recharge SSKs in friendly waters without the need for AIP...

Perhaps a variant of the Poseidon drone with nuclear propulsion meets an SSK at a designated point and time and charges the batteries on the SSK so it can remain submerged and silent and still for 5 hours getting a charge from a drone and then continue quiet operations...

The future for the Russian Navy is bright... they just have to sort out some problems in some areas... maybe Putin should send Rogozin...

You still live in the Dark Ages bro!

US manned platforms are horrendously expensive, so unmanned platforms make more sense for them.

But also as we have seen in Ukraine the larger drones are sitting ducks to modern air defences, the smaller cheaper disposable ones make sense, but big expensive HALES and MALES are not much good inside a conflict zone most of the time as they would be quickly cleaned up.

Obviously a current Bear or May wouldn't last long either but new self defence AAMs for PAK DA and other bombers and heavy aircraft could be used to shoot down incoming AAMs and SAMs... and airships operating at very high altitudes are actually a problem to shoot down.

(not like the balloons over the US which just needed one hit to bring down... a rigid airship with thousands of bags of hydrogen where you would need to rip into most of them to get the airship to descend would be harder to "kill".)

I think a mix of drones and manned aircraft or airships would make the most sense and offer the best mix of coverage and cost and survivability...